EARLY EPISODE: The Rwandan Genocide: Part 4
Added 2024-09-15 12:51:53 +0000 UTCPart 4/4
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Comments
This series was brutal, but I’m going to listen twice because it’s so important.
Chase Porfily
2024-10-01 07:47:05 +0000 UTCThese episodes came out at the same time the conservative party was saying Haitians are "eating peoples' cats and dogs". It's the same rhetoric as the build up to this genocide. I managed to convince some people of that by saying, "Would you be surprised if someone shot up a Haitian community or church after Trump said that?". They always said they wouldn't be surprised. As much as the genocide/war crime episodes make me feel miserable, I feel they continue to be relevant.
CowZooka
2024-10-01 00:22:03 +0000 UTCYou're absolutely right, I violated the cardinal never-post-while-drinking rule and I regret it.
Meade Morgan
2024-09-28 14:53:38 +0000 UTCJesus. That was pretty mean. I love Tom and there was hardly any of that this entire series. We all have preferences. Nothing other people do and spend their time on is going to please everyone, 100% of the time. Just ignore it if you don't like it.
Rhiannon Capri
2024-09-26 17:26:46 +0000 UTCI continue to weary of Tom. My feeling is that he is engaged in ruining the best extant military history podcast. It pains me to say that it seems to me that his trite hackneyed simplistic dull and repetitious references to base elements of modern european culture at the expense of analysis is wrecking this shit. Enough with the fucking dutch accent jokes, for example. It is my opinion that the listeners of this podcast deserve more. His series on the Troubles was magisterial. His other podcasts evidence similar brilliance. Tired of the same four fucking jokes about the continental cocaine habit. Joke about history, please!! That is all.
Meade Morgan
2024-09-23 01:05:36 +0000 UTCCreed? Creed is 'we have Pearl Jam at home'
Noblesse Oblahaj
2024-09-22 19:40:32 +0000 UTCI will defend League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as one of my favorite movies. I’m aware this is just childhood nostalgia, i do not care.
Samuel Brown
2024-09-20 00:44:25 +0000 UTCIncredibly small thing given the content of this episode, but thanks Nate for calling out the "yuck someone else's yum" phrase. As a kinky person, I hear it occasionally and it's become like a trigger phrase where I turn on everyone and emphatically ask if we all have to talk like babies now.
Markus D
2024-09-18 23:15:04 +0000 UTCI pooped my pants while listening. I don’t know if it was because of the podcast. But it was a variable. I blame Joe.
doug steinhurst
2024-09-18 04:01:25 +0000 UTCThis may be the one. The Lions pod I can't get thru. Need to sit down with a bowl and some brews before part 4. I know what happens.
Rylan May
2024-09-17 23:26:02 +0000 UTCI had my ice cream cone stolen near a light house in a small city near Sydney
sasquatch6197
2024-09-17 23:03:09 +0000 UTCThere's a story in Machete Season (one of the sources for the series) telling about how an entire soccer team ripped their own goalkeeper out of his house and slaughtered him and his whole family. That story will forever stick with me.
Vincent Tringale
2024-09-17 02:44:13 +0000 UTCI would like to genuinely thank you for the clarifications regarding the definitions around ethnic cleansing, because I had the exact same thinking as Nate for how it's determined when that term is used.
Jack F
2024-09-16 23:45:44 +0000 UTCComing back once I actually finished the episode to say thank you Tom for brining up the spread of hiv and the amount of rape used during the genocide. I wish it was more touched upon in the script by Joe but I also understand that it's a challenging topic to discuss. As Joe said they had to create a new legal code for genocidal rape because it was so bad. There is a book called The Men Who Killed me that is mostly Tutsi survivors of rape during the genocide telling their stories and feelings first hand. I do recommend it. Haven't read it since I was neck deep in grad school research but I think after this series I'll go back to some of those resources and refresh.
Kaylee
2024-09-16 20:20:58 +0000 UTCThat usually is the case for people unless they're directly involved in history or genocide studies. Most people see it that way because the history behind the term isn't well known. It's not synonymous with genocide in reality but I understand why people think so.
Kaylee
2024-09-16 20:14:25 +0000 UTCThis was the perfect week for us to hear this, with Springfield and all. Thought of yall when I saw this https://open.substack.com/pub/anandwrites/p/the-rwanda-playbook-in-springfield?r=nu3q&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Chris Lombardi
2024-09-16 18:26:56 +0000 UTCChrist, til now I thought Browning's Ordinary Men was the bleakest shit I would ever read Not anymore https://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/1996/Rwanda.htm Not the '40s but 94, while I was an infant
trashdo
2024-09-16 18:13:35 +0000 UTCCan we get a sticker of that quote "everybody says never again, until it's time to put up or shut up"?
Grumpy Bowlart
2024-09-16 18:08:06 +0000 UTCJust as a data point: for me, Ethnic Cleansing was always just a synonym for genocide, or perhaps a sub-category which implied a certain line of reasoning / motive. 28/m/white/usa
Rhaethyn
2024-09-16 16:37:13 +0000 UTCFun Fact: president Mitterand was a bureaucrat in Maréchal Pétain's Vichy government. It's rumored that he became a socialist party member because he wouldn't stand out in the conservative parties.
Carlo Valle
2024-09-16 14:35:08 +0000 UTCNo animal facts were brought up this episode :(
Chris Hanson
2024-09-16 14:15:09 +0000 UTCI'm glad Tom shouted out the monsters that are Dublin seagulls at the start of the episode. There are literally signs up in Trinity College in the city center warning tourists that they will steal your food and that it is not a joke
Cathal Nolan
2024-09-16 08:41:23 +0000 UTCMost people do! That was what i was trying to explain to nate. It's been used in such a way that the vast majority of people have no idea.
Lions Led By Donkeys Podcast
2024-09-16 05:52:43 +0000 UTCslightly off topic, but as a bengali i just wanna say that im so thankful you guys acknowledged how the british empire’s engineered famines affected not only india, but also current-day bangladesh and pakistan. it’s an unfortunate consequence of shifting national borders that lets people erase other south asian countries and the genocides (yes, plural) we’ve been through. not even getting into how there are still many historians who insist on absolving the role of the british empire and instead find new and inventive ways to blame the native people. nope.
nightshade
2024-09-16 05:02:59 +0000 UTCGod I wish I had not listened to part 3 and 4 in the same day this story has been filled with so many cruel and revolting characters but above all fuck France
Monty Mace
2024-09-16 04:50:16 +0000 UTCThis shit is actually me feel sick.
Svennie
2024-09-16 04:16:20 +0000 UTCOh thank goodness From what I've tasted of this mire, I store it for another pyre
Gilded Dragon
2024-09-16 02:10:03 +0000 UTCCan confirm that I also thought 'ethnic cleansing' was a separate but similar charge to genocide. Had no idea or was a circumlocution until I listened to this show.
Thomas Layton
2024-09-16 01:39:21 +0000 UTCabolish france. society has progressed past the need for the french.
nightshade
2024-09-16 00:07:18 +0000 UTCJohnny Mnemonic is based on a William Gibson story and they didn’t go far enough in making the psychic dolphin also an addict to black tar heroin. He is in the written version.
Matt
2024-09-15 23:35:59 +0000 UTCHad to pause the podcast mid listen because Joe took the words out of my mouth about how bs the term ethnic cleansing that I've been trying to explain to people for years. I understand why people don't know these things unless you're particularly involved in the subject so no shame. Just glad to hear others say the same because I've been frustrated with well meaning people using it for current genocides. Don't use euphemisms. Call it what it is. Euphemisms just muddy the waters.
Kaylee
2024-09-15 22:32:23 +0000 UTCA very enlightening and important series of episodes. Kudos guys.
Lewis
2024-09-15 19:53:59 +0000 UTCI find this to be the bleakest episode. It doesn’t even get better towards the end. It just ends, with few held responsible and no lessons learned. also I read Paul Russesabagina’s book that some of the trials were from informal communal courts. Which were designed for stuff like land disputes, and whose goal was for reconciliation. And that this kind of justice was not designed for reconciling the murder of someone’s entire family.
Jason Machacek
2024-09-15 18:44:35 +0000 UTCOmg they are so cute!
Marcos Rubios
2024-09-15 18:29:49 +0000 UTCCute animal fact- Honduran White Bats makes little leaf tents to protect themselves from the elements and they love to eat figs.
Elder Dog
2024-09-15 18:27:33 +0000 UTCAn uncle of mine, a doctor, went to Goma, Zaire/DRC in 1995 to assist all of the Rwandan refugees. When he came back he told of having such limited resources that part of the triage meant that dying babies and their mothers had to sit outside in front of the hospital and wait to die. He let out a weird “laugh” when he told this. It wasn’t until I was older that I realized it was a trauma response, to keep himself from breaking down. He was a young doctor, only used to working in supply-rich American hospitals. Understandably, he experienced Major Depression and PTSD when he returned.
Mac
2024-09-15 17:28:52 +0000 UTCWell done series y’all. I’m always impressed by how in depth and accurate Joe goes on topics that could be easy to reduce to pop history narratives. Such a refreshing and academically rigorous approach! And the respect/understanding y’all bring to such dark stuff
Ben
2024-09-15 17:27:18 +0000 UTCFor the fourth week in a row I say, why do I this to myself?
Doug King
2024-09-15 16:57:11 +0000 UTCAgreed. There's is a lot of bullshit out there the Genocide.
Doug King
2024-09-15 16:55:52 +0000 UTCOnce again, FUCK France.
nughh
2024-09-15 16:53:44 +0000 UTCYes! Just got married to my best friend Thursday and part 4 dropped today!! Truly a great week!
William Shackelford
2024-09-15 16:11:16 +0000 UTCAs a french it's so infuriating.... We don't learn any of this at school ofc...
Enzo
2024-09-15 15:04:49 +0000 UTCAll jokes aside; this series has made for brutal listening but I’ve learned a lot about something I was honestly pretty misinformed about. Good work to Joe and team
Doug Buchanan
2024-09-15 15:01:21 +0000 UTC
