Re:ZERO 2x22-2x23 FULL REACTIONS!
Added 2024-05-06 16:26:28 +0000 UTCEpisode 23 was INSANE! Sad about Elsa, ngl
Password: RZ2x22FL
Password: RZ2x23FL
Comments
I feel you C&A. I saw Ram's confession coming, but even I was apprehensive about that. The signs were actually all there this entire time though, so while you two felt like it came out of nowhere, I was cringing as the story and episode hinted at the confession coming soon. Wiznoot's comment describes it perfectly: we saw over the course of the entire series that Ram was devoted to Roswaal above all others, with the exception of Rem. We also saw how close they were when Roswaal and her were snuggling as he was healing her scar. I still don't agree with Ram's feelings, but at least the build-up was there all along and didn't come out of nowhere. I could never bring myself to forgive nor love someone who seemingly massacred my clan and loved ones. ...Or maybe I can? Ram must have seen a lot throughout those years with Roswaal. Did Roswaal treat them all wonderfully and fairly? Was he an utmost gentleman and caring person to Ram? I know I said I don't agree with Ram's feelings, but maybe after trying to see it through her perspective, I can understand her a little bit more. All those days and years together may have shown her another side to Roswaal. Is it enough to override the brutality of her clan's murder? I dunno. I have never been in a situation like hers, so I cannot say how I would be if I were in her position.
JN
2024-05-08 13:52:44 +0000 UTCI dunno how a lot of people seem to come to the conclusion that Minerva HAS to be Emilia's mom just because she's caring toward her. I was more under the impression she was moved to tears by the display of pure devotion and love from a daughter to her foster mother... someone who isn't her biological mother... I know I was moved to tears. Similar to how Betelgeuse was moved to tears when he saw the bond between Fortuna and Emilia. Minerva I feel personally knows Emilia's mom, and knows the circumstances surrounding her birth. So she also knows about Emilia's hardships and horrible childhood and upbringing. So to see Emilia come out of that tragic childhood beaming with pure genuine love and adoration for her surrogate mother, and not be broken by trauma and misery, made her well up with tears. My interpretation anyways. Minerva is like the aunt who saw a baby born in a shitty environment grow from that to find happiness.
JN
2024-05-08 13:44:20 +0000 UTCwhat is interesting is that if you think about the mirror of roswall and subaru. Subaru loves emilia the witch's daughter and acts like the daughter of a spirit (puck) and is a spirit user (uses their power) Roswall loves echidna who's was a witch who acted like a mother figure to betty/ryuzu (spirits), and she's a spirit USER (she uses the spirits to do what she wanted) Rem loves subaru who has eyes for emilia. Ram loves roswall who has eyes for echidna. Rem takes care of subaru by pull him up when is down. Ram takes care of roswall by putting him down when he's too high (on power/echidna/self). -- So Rem and Ram mirror Subaru and Roswall too.
Charles Malo
2024-05-07 23:06:43 +0000 UTCRam’s love for Roswaal, did not come out of nowhere. She has been extremely devoted to him since her introduction. Even before Rem disappeared in the novels, she cannot say for certain whether she cares more for Roswaal or Rem. Roswaal as a character is essentially a twisted reflection of Subaru. Neither care about their own lives, but instead about “saving” the one they love. Ram and Rem, literally mirror each other in the way that they are the same but COMPLETELY different. Red vs. Blue Hornless vs Horn Wind vs Ice Mean vs Sweet Flat vs. Busty Both Rem and Ram fall in love with a person who loves another. Roswaal loves Echidna and Subaru loves Emilia. They also both fall in love with a person whom they originally wanted to kill. It’s important to note that Roswaal didn’t directly kill her clan, he just essentially watched as it happened and knew it was going to happen ahead of time. Only intervening after Ram lost her horn (if she still had it, she’d probably be as strong as Roswaal.) Roswaal is also keeping her alive. If he did not give her some of his mana near daily, she would likely die. Mana is one’s life-force and Demon’s bring in mana through their horn. This is mentioned in Memory Snow (which is part of the reason this OVA should NOT be skipped.) It is an extremely intimate process. Ram likely knows Roswaal better than anyone else because of this, and in her mind she has excused Roswaal for all his inhumanity. Instead she blames it on his Tome of Wisdom and his attachment to Echidna. Her affection for Roswaal is supposed to be off-putting, but also earnest.
ThaDoubleB
2024-05-07 14:00:11 +0000 UTCIt's worth mentioning that the Ram we "know" from this season is one who has no memory of Rem. Without Rem, I think this version of Ram has taken all her sisterly affection that we saw in Season 1 and channelled it to this unhealthy/Stockholm syndrome-esque affection for Roswaal. I don't know how or if her character changes when or if Rem is "remembered" again, but that is definitely something I'll be looking out for in Season 3
FTN Chicken
2024-05-07 12:18:09 +0000 UTCi think there's the precedence in this show about how Rem being absent changed things for some: - Ram called in Frederica to help because she was overwhelmed with too many chores since Rem not existing. - Ram said she got bothered that one time when subaru suggested that he'd throw her at the enemies because she thought it was like it happened before. And for for reference this wasnt RAM remembering a time loop, this was ramBARELY circling the drain in the SAME loop (final loop) where she did indeed get thrown in the past by subaru in the air.. but it was to save REM. But Rem "Doesnt exist" in her memories, so there would have been no reason for her be thrown in the air, so in her mind that never happened but yet it FEELS like it happened. - so back to the fight with the cult at demon land: RAM saved REM, but REM never existed in her mind, so all she knows is that RAM lost her horn during at attack and that she was probably too "weak" to protect herself (she didnt succeed in protecting Rem at the cost of her horn). So in that "rewritten memories" of her mind, everyone she knew died. So she was the only one left and Roswall "saved her". Even if she had resentment to the "how could u not have saved everyone else? why just save me and noit everyone?" and hated him for it, this time, because rem's not here, she's not able to confine with her sister and act tought and strong to PROTECT REM. (red ogre and blue ogre story). But instead, there's only the red ogre now... only Ram... only the ogre that wanted to belong to someone else (friends/villagers... or the only other person that she grew close to in their "mana refueling sessions" aka rosswall...) ... Dont forget, that mana refueling session every day is probably very intimate... imagine you have a person that you think is a strong capable person, and every single day they come to you, feed you dinner and warm drink, and then watch netflix while they're rubbing your feet as a massage, or brushing your hair etc.... even if you had neutral feelings for someone, it's still a close interactive and personal act.... and over time, it can even become their "ritual"... But let's look back at the red and blue ogre story: So in her mind, Rem the blue ogre didnt exist, and ram the red ogre, who just wanted to "fit in and have friends with the village" is the only one left.. and so instead of the red and blue ogres being friends and relying on eachother... the blue ogre "left", and the red ogre got closer to the other humans/villagers/roswalt-analogy instead.... So yes it IS stockholm syndrome in a way, but not "exclusively/only that" because ram could have left at any time. Because Roswall didn't treat them as prisoners. That's the difference. He could even leave them in the house for days on end and not care, they could have left at any point, even when younger, but they did grow to enjoy their own routine. Hell, even Rem was thinking about leaving and getting married with subaru right? So she had the OPTION to leave, at least in her mind, same for RAM. But they stayed until now. I do think that Rem being abscent in those memories made Ram less PROTECTIVE and DEFENSIVE of rem (who doesnt matter to her)... we even see her more "open up" and showing passive aggressive affection for garfield and subaru and others throughout this season even more than before. In the past, the only compliments that she would give subaru is when he's proven himself good for emilia and rem, and nothing else. But in her mind now, she's more affectionate and less defensive.. at least for rem... what happened is that her "defensiveness" switched from being protective of rem to being protective of roswall... That's why she's voicing her "dont u dare insult roswall in front of me" mindset in at least 5 different scenes that i remember in this season alone. Whereas before, she would say "our master gave us order, but rem told me to go with you and keep an eye on you, and i trust in rem..." well.. rem doesnt exist right? So the only "truth" for her now is Roswall. and that's why this is the only time she snapped and stood up to him... to SAVE HIM. because she would normally have been too concerned about rem to thinking for herself or for ros.
Cyber
2024-05-07 10:32:38 +0000 UTCI see Ram's "I love you" more as "I care for you because you gave my life purpose (after allowing it to be taken away, granted)." It's not the most satisfying part of the show for me but in my mind, Ram wanting to save Roswaal from his psychosis is good enough for me. I can ignore the "love" line.
The Great Santini
2024-05-07 10:06:53 +0000 UTCThe answer of, "it's Stockholm syndrome" is an awful one and one I cannot accept, so I looked for any other logical reason Ram would say she loved Roswaal. I'm anime only, for the record. The ONLY way this makes ANY sense to me at all is if I think of it as, "all the love Ram had for Rem moved to Roswaal after Rem was erased from the world." That is the only answer that makes any sense to me as of right now. I could even see it being a deeper layer of tragedy into her backstory and character (e.g. she has no reason to feel this way and fate dictated that she fall in love with whom she hates the most). That has potential to build into something later on. I refuse to accept the "Stockholm syndrome" answer. I cannot buy her loving him after, at no point, was she shown to care for him in any deep, meaningful manner. I don't care if Roswaal saved her and let the rest of her village die; her next step of being in love still doesn't make sense and comes out of nowhere. That is bad, lazy writing and my "interpretation" is the only way I don't hate the reveal.
Seifren
2024-05-07 07:43:47 +0000 UTCWhile I can't claim to understand Ram's feelings, I don't think it's the same thing as your AOT example. That being said, I can understand why people might think differently. *Attack on Titan SPOILERS* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I don't think Ymir actually *loved* King Fritz. She was a child who desperately craved connections (hence the Paths of Ymir), but as an orphaned slave who was ostracized by the other slaves, King Fritz was the only connection she had before giving birth. The first act of individualism / rebellion Ymir ever committed (letting the king's livestock go free) ended quite disastrously, so after surviving her near death experience, she returned to the only life she knew: being a slave who took orders. Contrary to what her descendants thought (Eren and Mikasa), the audience wasn't given definitive proof that Ymir "loved" the king. If she did love him, I'd agree that it was an unhealthy, one-sided desire that makes no sense, but I think she was actually feeling dependency (not love). Without an education, freedom, or other human connections to compare her feelings with, she misunderstood the emotions she had for King Fritz. The fact that Ymir can't speak makes it impossible to know for sure, but her feelings seemed more like an unhealthy dependency birthed out of loneliness.
Merfhew
2024-05-07 05:42:05 +0000 UTCTo address the ending discussion of 23: (I'm an anime only, long time Patron) The love story is very faint, but has a lot of considerations, firstly for the whole taking in, stockholme syndrome is a very real thing, it's not uncommon for people to fall for people to fall in love with those who are above them. Another popular belief is with the absence of Rem, in her memories Roswall is THE ONLY person she has. Betty and he never talked much, she wasn't fond of Frederica, leaving mostly just her and Roswall. You also see much earlier in season 1 when Subaru beats the night deaths, she says "Since that fiery night my body (I) has belonged to you". It's heavily implied up to here she harbours feelings. I wouldn't compare it so heavily to the OTHER ANIME you references, given Roswall at least has good to him. I also believe Ram solely believes the bad in him comes from following the book and Echidna's grasps over him, rather than his true nature. As for Emilia's mother, I'm an anime only, and among our community for Re Zero the 2 biggest theories so far are either Minerva or Echidna being her mother. The biggest belief (I'd say 70%) is for Minerva, the whole interaction as you guys seemed to think, it was just so odd, especially if we use someone like Subaru as a baseline, given how special he is to the witches too... The second being Echida with about 20%, the "I hate you" while crying and so on seems very personal, that being said we are told by Fortuna that Emilia has her brother's silver hair, which half implies her mother didn't. The remaining 10% thing it's somehow Satella, but given she's half-witch half human like Emilia, her father would also have to be half witch, half human. Now then, we know that Fortuna also says "my sister in law is going to be so mad with me" (paraphrased) whichy could link to Minerva's wrath etc, but overall Idk who the mum is, but I do believe Minerva is the most likely candidate, matches with Echidna calling Emilia "Witch's daughter". Unless it's Lust all the others just seem far from being candidates. This is one of the best episodes in the series full stop! This, episode 18 (Rem confession) from S1 and the next episode are top tier. Love y'all and hope you enjoy the end of S2 and the wait for S3 later this year with us!
Addstir
2024-05-07 05:01:16 +0000 UTCLink seems to have been fixed.
Matthew Edgerton
2024-05-07 04:19:05 +0000 UTCAhhh the link to 23 is wrong
Diego Beltran
2024-05-06 23:33:50 +0000 UTCsame... same.
Cyber
2024-05-06 21:17:01 +0000 UTCEpisode 23 link leads to Epidode 22
Nah I’d win
2024-05-06 18:36:19 +0000 UTCI’m not saying it makes the entire difference. I’m just saying it helps when she doesn’t even have to question that priority anymore. All she knows is Roswaal with the absence of Rem. It’s more of the first thing than the second thing. But the second point does contribute even if it’s a smaller contribution.
Wiznoot123
2024-05-06 18:28:24 +0000 UTCCompletely agree with your first point. On the second point, it’s really hard to prove that Rem’s absence makes that big of a change in her feelings for Roswaal. In the novels, Ram thinks to herself that she cannot say for certain whether Rem is her first priority or not. And that was early in the story. I think Ram just sees how mad Roswaal was driven by his goal and the attachment to his “future”. Roswaal and Subaru are supposed to mirror each other, Rem was able to see the good in Subaru and fell in love with him, and I think the same is true for Ram. It’s just a more twisted version of Rem/Subaru, for various reasons.
ThaDoubleB
2024-05-06 18:17:24 +0000 UTCFor the Roswaal/Ram thing. The Witch cult are the people that destroyed and killed everyone in the demon village. However, Roswaal knew it was going to happen very similarly to how he let the witch cult attack the mansion and kill everyone in season 1. Except he stepped in and “saved” Ram and Rem because the Tome of Wisdom told him he needs Ram for something. So he is just saying he basically let everyone die in that village and then took Ram. He didn’t actually kill anyone in the village it was more so he just let it happen and set it up to happen. It’s all the same. Two big factors that plays into Rams confession here is 1. Stockholm Syndrome 2. The absence of Rem from Rams memories. Because Rem is no longer in Rams memories she has an even bigger attachment to Roswaal because that’s all her memories are filled with now. Its lead her to have an even more unhealthy relationship with Roswaal since he is all she knows now without Rem.
Wiznoot123
2024-05-06 18:07:33 +0000 UTCActually u guys had already seen that beatrice's book was empty, she said it stopped showing her the future for a long time now, but she still clings to it cause she has nothing else to count on
Adriano Cabral
2024-05-06 17:47:38 +0000 UTCI think Echidna was moved by the way Emilia handled her trial but was trying to put up a front by saying she was disgusting. If you haven't figured out yet the trials are all past, present and future. In a previous episode Subaru confronted Echidna about Betty's book and she said Betty was supposed to decide "that person" for herself but she never did.
BornUnMotivated
2024-05-06 17:46:17 +0000 UTCEchida explicitly said most of that before Satella showed up to the tea party, essentially she just wanted to see the outcome, and didn't care what it was
Addstir
2024-05-06 17:26:18 +0000 UTCAbout the conversation between Fred and Petra, they are talking about the end of Ep 21 when Fred was ready to sacrifice herself to save Petra from Elsa, right before Subaru & Garf showed up. About Beatrice's behaviour, I suppose it's a little bit up to interpretation, but the book has always been blank, since 400 years back. Subaru's shenanigans in the last few days would not have changed that. The way I see it, the whole blank book and finding "that person" was meant to be test for Beatrice by Echidna to see if she would make any decisions for herself. I don't know if Echidna expected Beatrice to be in a state of indecision like this for literally hundreds of years
FTN Chicken
2024-05-06 17:15:23 +0000 UTCThought i missed click for a sec 😅
Baren Nerab
2024-05-06 17:08:49 +0000 UTCYep, the links are both EP22 FL.
Sai Nonya
2024-05-06 16:36:04 +0000 UTCHey, just a quick heads up. The link for Ep. 23 brings you to the wrong episode.
Merfhew
2024-05-06 16:29:39 +0000 UTC
