Attack on Titan 4x27 REACTION!

18:23 You're forgetting that Floch and his crew legit tried to kill Hange first.

M.N.

Bruh why did they have to pad out the episode with even more fight, I mean I get that's all Mikasa has going for her but it honestly makes me root for her even less. Also the studio isn't really nailing those faces this season.

TrixieTurner

Yeah. The scouts always were and are still dedicating their hearts for humanity. Its why why when Hange is asking Jean and Mikasa if they'll help, Jean ultimately answers 'Hange-san, I'm forever a Scout.'

Effi

Completely respect those points. You outlined some great perspectives that i hadn't considered. However, what I was saying isn't really about Eren. To your point about the Scouts fighting for humanity, not the island. This is a great point, however i'd also like to point out, that humanity sent the titans. So in a way the scouts are fighting for humanity who tried to wipe out their home with the titans. They're fighting for people that are inevitably going to kill them and their families. It's just a bitter pill to swallow, that's all. Just like they didn't know that others existed outside the wall, they also didn't know that they were actually fighting against humanity in the first place. Not the titans.

Carlie & Ange

Well put. Like Hange said "Genocide is wrong". Even though Jean saw the flaws in their plan he still sided with them because it was the right thing to do, going against all his goals and they can't come up with the best plans when they trying to stop a person from literally stomping out the whole continent in less than 4 days. Tbf, If I were in Eren's shoes and I saw someone eat my mom and I had the power to stop it, I would probably do the same. Eren is smouldering rage incarnate. There is no stopping that.

Amrith

The scouts have never done anything for "their" people or for the sake of the island, they didn't even know they lived on a island up until a few years ago. The things they did was always for the sake of humanity as a whole, which to them happened to be just their people on the island at the time. I think doing everything in their power to stop Eren from destroying the whole world falls in line pretty well with the philosophy of the scouts. Until their first victory, the scouts were always looked down upon and their missions outside the wall seemed stupid and impossible to most people. Remember the scouts were pretty much wiped out at the retaking of Shinganshina besides the people we know, so all the Yaegerists with the exception of Floch (who had said before that he regretted joining the scouts in the expedition) either joined the military after that or were members of other regiments so there's already a disconnect between them and the scouts. As all the titans on the island were wiped out and the whole island was safe to live on, the scouts and their philosophy would end at the few who survived the retaking of Shinganshina which happened to be the ones that joined the alliance. I also think a thing to consider is that if people hadn't been following Eren's story this whole time there's pretty much no one who would be supporting him right now, even if we knew his reasons. I watched season 1 when I was like 13 and I'm 20 now so I do understand where the people who do support him are coming from, as Eren's goals haven't REALLY changed that much.

gd22

For the first time, I don't really get Ange's perspective tbh. The "alliance" has always been about protecting the kids. From Mikasa, to Sasha in the forest during season 2, it was always about protecting "the innocent". Even Reiner. He keeps going forward to protect the kids. You can clearly see, at the beginning of this season part 1 that Mikasa and Armin are disgusted by the idea of killing children (during the attack on Marley). Armin sees nothing but devastation when he kills all those people. Finally, the Jaegerists are attacking their friends too. They tried to kill Levi. The tried to kill the military. And right now, their plan is to kill everyone on Earth with Marley. Even those who are at war with Marley, like Onyankopon's people. In my opinion, letting the jaegerists exterminate 95% of the population, even the kids, even the innocent, would be wayyy out of character for them. I understand how Eren get there. I wouldn't understand it for Jean, Mikasa or Armin. (and yes, their plan suck, but they have no other choice imo)

Martin

i feel like Ange forgets that the jaegrist betrayed Eldia first... regardless of their intentions... they killed/executed/ and imprisoned half their military. I mean they were even hunting Hange and Levi she had already killed scouts by that point.

LandofBill

They mentioned something in discord about it likely not being up until tomorrow. A lot of editing because it's gonna be a special one! :D

Gabriel Barott

Can’t wait for ep 28 today (:

Allen Valdes

My main issue with erens plan is it feels like a guy is gifted the power of a God and the way he solves the problems he faces is making chimp sounds and smacking his enemies with a big stick like a cave man. Like wtf is that. I don't see why he couldn't secure a future for Eldia without just killing everyone indiscriminately. I think he is just a violent pyscho who doesn't care to think past "if they oposose me murder them" its like he said on the roof in S3. The only thoughts left in his head are hatred. Erens best play would have been to just give the titans to Armin if you ask me.

Rick Turpentine

They both literally trained the same child soldiers. They both cared about the same children and had a similar difficult task. In fact both of their sets of students would end up fighting each other. Two sides of the same coin. Neither of them knew the other one even existed for years and they were rivals who understood each other better than anyone.

Rick Turpentine

Not to speak for Ange, but I think the difference is that we already know how ridiculous and unnecessary Floch is being. Ange just seemingly cares a lot for Mikasa, and at least it appears that it's the reason why he gets passionate about the choices she makes.

Gabriel Barott

I really hope this comment isn't serious but in case it is, I find it a little bit ridiculous. This makes me out to support Floch and not support Mikasa. I've said numerous times that I dislike Floch. Calling him a loose unit is not an endearing term. As for Mikasa, I've loved her from the start. This comparison makes absolutely zero sense. Flochs actions are completely in character hence why I shouldn't need to spell it out for everyone that they are bad. Some of these comments are just way off the mark.

Carlie & Ange

Monii, you nailed it! 👍 The discussions gets bad when you are unable to understand the other side to a certain level at least. It is also important to LISTEN to what your "opponent" says. Just shouting out YOUR opinion is not a discussion.☝️ I feel really sad for Ange who times and times explained how torn he is with many characters and actions from both sides. Some people just ignore 95 % of what he says and pick up one sentence to conclude "Ah, he hates the Alliance, so he is a jaegerist!".. Or the other way... These two a doing a great job breaking down this complex show with a view from every direction. I would "hate" it if some of these "discussions" would make them regret it... 😪😔

MasterOfPuppets

Floch: *Forces trainees to beat Shadis* *shoots a disarmed man multiple times in cold blood and without hesitation* *controls Paradis through violence and fear* Ange: Looollll, he is a lose unit 😂 Mikasa: *tries to not kill her comrades, only kicks and shoves a gun in a guy's head* *sees Connie in danger an saves him* *still doesn't want to kill more people and brutally kills two jaegerist to scare dozens more* Ange: I don't like this 😡😡😡😡😡

Víctor G.

Bold of you…..

Sean Carroll

I love how both of you are viewing this with empathy towards both sides, but both of you have your biases and it's great. I definitely had strong feelings at this point in the story but after you finish and sit on it for a while, your feelings will become more stable towards it I think. That's how it was for me too. As someone who's favorite character is Eren & Hanji... I was pulled towards both sides. In the end for me, I'm with moreso on the side of the alliance BUT I think how they went about it was dumb - but at the same time I couldn't think of a better solution than they did. But Eren's reasoning for his actions make sense too. I related to Ange when he said he'd just go hide out in Isle's tree LMAO - If this was real and I was in it, I really would not know what to do. I do not envy you having to react to this publicly, people get REALLY heated and make serious assumptions about you as a person based on what you think of this story even if you're being reasonable - so don't listen to those comments too much xD The only reason I actually judge someones opinions on this is if they can't see the other side. At the end of the day, this story requires you to have empathy for essentially everyone. Example of who I judge: "Floch is KING" fanboys and "Mikasa and Armin KILL THE ELDIANS" people.

Monii

I know you addressed it a bit in your initial write up (great by the way). One thing that not a lot of people talk about when arguing about Eren and his decison. Paradis after the RtS arc had attempted some form of diplomacy with the world, specifically Hange. They captured the cruisers and tried to learn from their military and they even have a few shots where it showed them and the Marleyans getting along. They even had a plan for a partial rumbling in the event if it didn't work as a back up to protect the island. Eren threw all that completely out the window when he decided to attack Marley, which caused the Marleyan counter attack, which caused Eren to start the Rumbling. So i don't exactly like the "Eren had no other choice" argument (ignoring the whole Attack Titan is on a fixed timeline since it can see the future but that is a whole different conversation). They did, and they were trying, but he decided that plan sucked. Now was the attempt at the diplomacy futile given the circumstances of the history between Eldians and the world? Most likely. Even the higher Paradis brass were being complete assholes to the captured Marleyans and treating them like slaves. The point is though there was an effort to try and restore relations with Eldians/Paradis and the world and that all went to shit when Eren went rouge. So Eren did make the choice to initiate after the RtS arc which dominoed every other decison. Eren like he always has made an emotional and irrational decision to attack Marley. This is why I love Eren as a character though, he has always done this CONSTANTLY throughout the whole series, it just keeps scaling up to insane levels compared to before. To answer your question is Eren's decision worse than the worlds? No it isn't but it also certainly isn't any better either. His decision was still an emotional and completely irrational one which didn't give time for a potential better one in progress to come to fruition. So the "He didn't have a choice" thing that people who are drunk on Eren spew out I just can buy into.

NissanZaxima

@Jaypee87 I appreciate the nuance in your answer, and your understanding of the characters/themes of the show. My point was not to absolve Eren's actions, rather to see his character afforded the same understanding + empathy as other characters who also committed unjustifiable actions, on a smaller quantitative scale due to the size of their inherited enemy. To your point regarding Genocide’s in actual history - due to factors in AOT’s world such as inherited future memories, an entire world determined to eliminate a single race of people, I believe it’s important to separate the analysis of these particular genocidal decisions from historical genocides. To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a time in history when every country in the world convened to exterminate one island of people. In that way, Paradis situation is unique. In regards to Eren, his inheritance of the future memories also makes his situation as rules unique. I agree with you that Eren’s mistake is that he chose to take the same course of action as the other rulers throughout AOT’s history who had power. Instead of breaking the trauma cycle, he decided to try and end it. In doing so, he’s creating further trauma and as Kiyomi says, “The world is only going to get smaller. You’ll still kill yourselves as you always have” Presumably, Eren has seen that this is the one future where his people, particularly his friends, survive. So if you were in Eren’s shoes, including having seen the future memories of what’s to come, what would you have tried to do differently?

David Gramling

@Iaras I believe that the decision to commit genocide and intentionally murder innocent people is wrong. So, I disagree with Eren's decision as well as Marley/The world's decision. However, I don't believe Eren's decision is worse because of the quantity of people killed. It's simply an evil act regardless if it was only Marley innocents being killed or the entire world. And the actions of younger Annie/Reiner etc and all those currently prepared to wipe out Eldians are on the same level.

David Gramling

I think most people who do not side with Eren in his actions, myself included, understand Eren enough to not think he his evil. We just simply disagree with his conclusion and decision. And to be honest, every ruler in history that has attempted genocide has always had their "reasons" for doing it. Not sure their ever can be a defensible reason to commit genocide. To your posed question. If it's just killing that is wrong, and not simply the quantity who will be killed, that still does not absolve one party or the other any more as you are both deciding to kill. Being an inconsequentialist does not entail making Eren more justified. It just means that, at the height of his power when he has the entire world at his fingertips, he chose the same violent course as everyone else. I think it's kinda analogous to Noah's flood. The entire world is wiped out because it was deemed beyond repair, and only the select few (Paradis in this analogy) will be spared. But after the flood, there was still infighting, squabbling, violence, basically the same exact problems humanity still faces to this day. It doesn't solve anything. What is needed is for the powerful actors in the world to actually do something different instead of repeating history. And no, that's not suggesting they never defend themselves. Everyone has that right. But there is defending yourself and committing genocide to defend yourself. Pretty big gap there.

Jaypee87

I totally get you. I just think when you boil it down to the actions people are taking right now, you're right the Alliance is taking away a weapon, and Eren is using one. What comes after is up in question but right now the morality is with the Alliance.

Kolton Nay

David Gramling@ Well said. And we are forgetting one thing here. Marley/the world are the ones who started it. They attacked first. Everyone has the right to defend their home & loved ones. No one can dispute that. That is what Eren is doing. It's sad that the only weapon he has to defend is the rumbling. The world chose to go into this hell, Eren was dragged into it. The world wants to commit genocide because they WANT to, Eren doesn't want to commit genocide but HAS to.

Ivan Haji

Koltan Nay@ Could lead to genocide? "Could" implies there is a 50/50 chance or smaller. When it is almost certain that it will lead to genocide. Marley already attempted the genocide and managed to even commit it to an extent, and the world already DECLARED war, cried their tears, and clapped their hands at the thought of it. The Alliance has no real plan that will ensure the Islands future. They are taking away the only weapon they have to defend themselves.

Ivan Haji

See that's the thing, Eren is literally committing genocide, whereas what the Alliance is doing COULD lead to genocide of their own people. The Alliance is creating an opportunity for a better outcome than Genocide. That opportunity may not become a reality, but in Eren's plan there is no opportunity to change.

Kolton Nay

As much as I like the characters in the Alliance, I stand by Eren no matter what he decides to do.

C~LoS

"killing children and pedestrians along with soldiers" is what Marley and the world want to do to & tried to do to Paradis. You could equally argue that the Alliance is supporting the genocide of their own people.

Ivan Haji

They are indeed from the south! They dont sound Italian when they speak 😆 and don’t feel sorry! Most people have been respectfully disagreeing which is fine 😊

Carlie & Ange

I already left this reply on the other comment, but I think your question can be broken down into the question of moral philosophy, deontology or consequentialism? killing is bad or killing more people is bad?

laras

Carlie you're not alone, I loved seeing the Alliance come together. It's not basic, I think it's actually a difficult group to stand behind after supporting Eldia for so many seasons. I think it's important to empathize with as many people as possible in this show.

Kolton Nay

I think it's important to point out that the Alliance is killing soldiers who are supporting genocide, whereas Eren is killing children and pedestrians along with soldiers. You're right that no one right now is making decisions that are easy to stand behind, but I think it should be easier to root for those not killing innocents.

Kolton Nay

Actually we see Mikasa use only non-lethal methods in Episode 26 and the first half of 27. She was trying her best to take them out without killing, until she saw Connie almost get shot. That's when she pulled out her swords and started killing. It's a really cool detail but it shows that she still tried to spare as many people as she could.

Yasiru Jayasinghe

Even after they stop Eren they can still defend themselves, assuming they don't kill Eren but just somehow convince him to stop. Eren can now control the founding titan so building the walls again should not be a problem for him, just like the first king who built the walls with the power of the founding titan. Don't forget that now Paradis has 5 out of the 9 titans (including Zeke's beast titan) and Marley only has 4. Even if Eren dies after his 13 years are over, they can still pass the founding titan to Historia then to her child as Zeke was able to undo the brainwashing of the first king. So in my opinion Paradis has a much better chance of defending themselves than before, when they had no knowledge of the outside world, had no titans on their side and founding titan was useless because of the first king's brainwashing.

Ruined King

A question I’d like to pose: is Eren’s decision worse than the rest of the world’s desire to exterminate Eldians? The reason I ask this is because of the consistent use of the word “mass” in front of Genocide. It seems to me that for some people, Eren’s decision is utterly wrong because of the quantity of people. Or at least quantity is the aspect emphasized. It seems to me that more people would be able to accept (not agree, necessarily) Eren’s actions if he just went after Marley. But Eren’s enemy is the world. The world, and every major nation in it, wants to destroy his people. So are Eren’s actions more reprehensible because he inherited a larger enemy base than his enemies? Another way of putting this: are the actions of Marley, Zeke, and the rest of the world less reprehensible than Eren’s simply because the number of their enemy is less? Or is genocide equally as bad, no matter the scale of it? The people of Paradis inherited Titan blood. They don’t have control over whether or not they can turn into titans. Yet, that’s the reason that the rest of the world hates them. Willy gathered important players of the world to watch his play to declare war against Paradis. In a sense, Eren inherited the world as his enemy. Whether or not he chose to attack during Willy’s speech, the declaration of war was made from all other existing races. A potential counterpoint would be that we have no idea who would have been on board with attacking Paradis if Eren didn’t attack. We actually have enough information to make a reasonable guess. Udo explained that as bad as Eldians are treated in Marley, they’re actually treated WORSE elsewhere. So it’s likely nearly every nation would have supported the plan to eradicate the Eldians. So the world would have committed genocide against their perceived threat, Paradis. Does the relatively small population of Paradis make the genocide more acceptable? I seek to have this point explored because it seems to me that the size of Eren’s casualties play a direct role in the unacceptability of his actions. But if he seeks to protect his people against eradication, he has to protect them against anyone who wants to exterminate them. Due to their titan ability and Eren’s control of the Founding Titan, Eldians have far more enemies. Eren has to deal with all of them to protect the island. So is Eren different from Annie or Reiner? Both of whom I see as characters who many people seem to be able to forgive at this point in the story. In my view, they’’re the same. They’re all selfish. They’re willing to kill their enemies, despite knowing better, if it gets them to their goal. Reiner decided to move forward as a warrior even after living with them for 5 years. He’s come back multiple times to kill more Eldians. Annie tells Hitch that despite her actions being unforgivable and wrong, she’d do them all again to get back to her father. Eren reached a deep and nuanced understanding of the similarities between life on the other side of the sea and life in Paradis, yet he decided to kill them all anyways. Why? There was something important enough to them that they were willing to kill innocents for. So can Eren also be forgiven and understood, despite his actions being unforgivable? My point is not to justify Eren’s actions. My point is to argue that either his character warrants the same level of acceptance and understanding as other tragic characters OR all characters should be fitted with the depth of evil attributed to Eren.

David Gramling

Nooo Ange, you don’t have to justify yourself! I undestood your roots are italian but your language isn’t, and that’s totally fine! Well, maybe your parents would sound non sense to me too 😂, I don’t speak/understand any dialect, are they from the south? And I’m reading the comments too, I feel sorryyyy!! Don’t feel guilty for what you think about the story, everyone has their opinions. I’m with the alliance, a friend of mine is totally by Eren’s side (not “yeagerist”, but he justifies Eren and don’t stand the others), another friend of mine doesn’t even care and changes his mind every 3 minutes 😂 AoT is great for this, Isayama is a genius! He exposes human behaviour

Carolina

Team Ange! Team Eren!

Jordan

RIP King Floch

OldeSkoole

Damn it @Carolina, i’m already getting flamed and now i’m even getting called out for my lack of knowledge of the Italian language 😂 i knew Falco had an italian name, but i’m not gunna lie, had no idea it meant hawk. I grew up in a family that spoke dialect, so They sounded like they were speaking non sense half the time 🤣🤣 but that makes falcos transformation even better now!

Carlie & Ange

Shadis is top tier this season!

Bryonna Yates

What I like so much about this series is that every single choice and action a character makes can be justified in some way. I personally don't really care about the fights that much (unless they offer some development) but the characters really are the highlight here. Case and point, the post credit scene with Annie. Ange said - perhaps rightfully - that her action shouldn't be justified. And he's right, they shouldn't and they can't be justified, but I think that's missing the point. Annie feels this way because she regrets what she has done, just like Reiner and Berthold. She came to the island as a child brainwashed by her surroundings and scarred by her upbringing, fully expecting not to care about the lives she would destroy. However, now seeing the consequences of these actions, she has come to remorse what she did, and you can really sympathize with her character. Same with Eren. His genocide can be "justified" by the knowledge that - in his opinion - there is no other way out of this. Essentially saying he's choosing what he'll interpret as the lesser evil. Mass genocide can't ever be condoned, but you can sympathize with his character and the decisions and actions by those around him which have led up to this moment. Same with Hange and the scouts, though I'll just touch on Hange here. She has witnessed her comrades be fully prepared to drill her and Levi with a bullet from point blank, how her comrades are fully prepared to wipe out 90+% of the world populace. For her, an eventual downfall of paradis is less important than the downfall of the entire planet. Again, she is choosing the "lesser evil". It's not that she does this because she *wants* to, I mean we saw her cry at killing the people who were once her comrades. But she - and all the other scouts - have put their own personal feelings aside and are looking at the bigger picture and what they feel is the right thing to do. I hope my point is clear here. There is no one in this show you can root for, which is clearly by design. This show portrays the meaninglessness of war better than any show by literally giving us no one to root for, and thus empowering the viewer to see what is actually going on: a war which is completely senseless from the beginning with millions, if not billions of innocent dying through no fault of their own.

Erjon Sejdijaj

Very well articulated!

Jaypee87

Zyrus, the military I get. But what about the civilians, prisoners of war. Surely you're not suggesting every single person is so beyond hope as to be deserving of being wiped out? You seem only to put yourself in the shoes of Eren and Paradis instead of looking through the lens of the countless other people who will suffer and die. Don't you think that's a bit myopic? Two wrongs don't make a right. It's a cliche and simplistic, sure, but it's still something to consider

Jaypee87

We are all, then, thankful that you are NOT in that kind of position of power.

Jaypee87

Zyrus, the people in the original coup weren't executing people who disagreed with them. They dismantled a puppet regime that kept their people in ignorance and disappeared people who tried to find out the truth, and installed a just ruler. Don't pretend things are the same.

Jaypee87

@Jjj tbh I never noticed that little detail other than the Jean scene. Good catch! In that light I guess you can really see their hesitance to kill their former comrades.

Enrico Gratzer

plus you can see how our guys only start killing when their own where about to get killed. Jean killed in the last episode to save mikasa who was about to get shot in the stairs. Connie started killing to save armin. Mikasa only started killing when connie almost got shot in mid air, before that she only kicked or knocked ppl down. It's all way back to season 3

Jjj.

See my enjoyment in this anime, comes from actually LETTING myself feel the emotions of each individual character. The emotions of each character are the most valid and understandable part! The actions that are derivative of those emotions, are the part that we as the viewer usually tend to judge as naïve, unnecessary or wrong. The intent of each character is really important here, because the actions that almost everyone are taking, as we probably agree, are not justifiable. The emotions and intent are the things that help me get perspective. I noticed Ange mentioning that the Alliance are going through with this plan at the expense of killing their own. I respectfully disagree. I don't believe that the Alliance has any intent to directly kill their own, unless they deem it necessary to get to Eren, which is why thus far they have only killed Jaegerists. You might say that the people of Paradis may not die by the hands of the Alliance, but will surely be killed by the rest of the world if the Rumbling is stopped. I just fail to see how that's the fault of the Alliance and not the world. I am not a manga reader, so this is purely speculative, but IF the Rumbling is stopped by the Alliance, I believe they will do everything in their power to see that both the people of Paradis and the rest of the world survive. If that doesn't work, and the Alliance are killed, and the people of Paradis are not saved, then at least they did the noble thing by ATTEMPTING to save everyone left.

Gabriel Barott

@Hive motivation does not equal action. You could even argue all sides have good motivation. Eren wants to stop the cycle of hatred, Yaegerists/The world want to save their family/friend/home, The alliance wants to save the world. Still, we can question the action. I said all sides suck, doesn’t mean all sides equally suck. But just admit, they’re suck. Speaking of Erwin, Floch is literally Erwin byproduct. And yes you mentioned it, his comrades, not the civilians. Also are you equating Floch with all yaegerist? If that’s the case then why Daz couldn’t shoot Armin and Samuel couldn’t shoot Connie?

laras

Angeeee, you are italian, you should know that “Falco” means “hawk”, that’s why Falco’s titan is a bird, with the beak and claws of an hawk and feathers! There are also hawks in Season 4 part 1 ending (that it’s dedicated to him) and in the first episode of part 1 he talked to the hawks in the sky (and then he says he dreamed about flying, but that part isn’t in the manga) This episode is sad also because no one will ever know that Shadis sacrified himself… no one knew he was there [eating a ham with Magath]

Carolina

I totally agree, Aidan. I wrote it myself that Eren is selfish, episodes ago, maybe when they watched the table scene. But maybe only a few of us see that he acts like a selfish teen

Carolina

Riley@ And the world wants to kill everyone in Eren's homeland. That's why.

Ivan Haji

@Ben this is just the question in moral philosophy whether you hold deontology or consequentialism, killing is bad or killing more people is bad?

laras

The people who say no are realists, you mean. You can say yes to a thing without being happy about it.

Zyrus

Mikasa with the body to body stab and thunder spear pull explosion to raining blood scene. Top 5 most badass moments in this show 😲💘

Nathan S.

Just get out of your own head and think about the bigger picture of what's going on. Your confirmation bias is pretty blatant.

Zyrus

You can argue the exact same thing for Erwin and friends during the original coup. So, what, it's bad because they don't have /your/ idealogy now?

Zyrus

This is a bullshit argument. Literally every government has been an autocracy. Historia is a Queen. The Yeagerists are just the latest in a long line of nationalists.

Zyrus

@Iaras I don’t think it’s right to equate the Yaegerists actions/motivations with the Scouts. For one, Erwin consistently took steps to minimize casualties in his plans (like when he planned an emergency evacuation for the Rod Reiss titan or the fact that his coup was a bloodless coup). And, additionally, part of the whole point to Erwin's character arc was how the loss of all his comrades weighed heavily on his shoulders. You think the Floch cared even a little bit who drank the wine? Or how giddy he was to have Shadis pummeled or to execute the volunteers just as a show of force?

Hive

Can we also appreciate the incredible badass action scenes done in this episode! Emotions aside one of the best animated fights ever.. including mommy Mikasa 😍

Nathan S.

How is it Kiyomi's fault for defending herself? Floch wasn't buying Armins scream for help, and continued to point his gun at the azumabito to "wipe out any concerns in the bud", which is why she did what she did.

Val

Ange: *gassing up Keith and Magath, not noticing they are both about to sacrifice themselves* *Keith and Magath die* Ange: "Oh shit, that's my bad"

Gabriel Barott

We still have part 3 in 2023. Zeke for alliance join to fulfill Grishas wish to stop Eren? Cpt. Levi to step against Eren as well?

Nathan S.

This right here. The problem with a lot of fans is that they try too hard to pick a side and support one or the other. If you just sit back and enjoy the show, your viewing experience will only increase for the better. I like Eren as well and am totally fine with his actions because in his eyes it's justified. I also like most characters in the alliance so I completely understand their actions as well and root for them when they have epic moments.

Val

If Reiner was the Plot Armor TItan, Mikasa is the Plot Armor Ackermann here.

Zyrus

If you think about it, Eren is doing what the first King did. Use titans to rule the world.. they will still be passed into random children that can live for 13yrs. As society moves on our views change, there will be titan factions and civil war.. Also who's to say EVERY human would not survive the rumbling.. people outside Paradis will eventually rise again and Eldians will truely live up to the Devil name.

Nathan S.

The Alliance are a bunch of idiots with barely any plan killing their own because they think they have some kind of moral high horse after all the bullshit of the last few seasons. It's completely justified when /everyone is fucking trying to kill you/.

Zyrus

When it comes down to it in real life, I would choose my family and friends. But if we are to then live in a messed society with murdurist fascist control and millions of deaths on our shoulders so we can live.. is that really living? and would we then teach our children that was the true righteous decision to make?

Nathan S.

FACTS

Luis

Exactly. This whole “but our people” line of thinking is exactly what they’re using to justify global genocide. The Scouts have never had that mentality, though, they’re looking past just defending their people. It’s not too different from when they were willing to kill “their own” when Kenny’s crew showed up. The Scouts understood Kenny’s gang / the monarchy wasn’t acting for humanity’s best interest, only their own, and they were willing to take them down.

Hive

THIS

bruhmingo

I know others have probably said it, but remember that the Jeagerists were willing to kill their own people as well for the sake of furthering their own agenda (Ex- Levi and Hange, Premiere Zachary, and all of the MP’s and Garrison officials who drank Zeke’s wine), so you can’t really paint Hange and the others in a bad light when the Jeagerists are doing the same thing. That’s why Armin and the Alliance were hoping to have their first plan work, cause they knew the Jeagerists wouldn’t hesitate to kill them if they found out, so in this situation it’s either kill or be killed, and the Alliance didn’t have the time or the cards to sit down and talk with the Jeagerists, especially with how militant Floch was. I think the common thing that you guys may have missed is that yes the Jeagerists are fighting for their people, but their ultimate goal (at least with Floch as a leader) was essentially to support genocide and become an unstoppable empire in the world. Sound familiar? Cause that’s exactly what the first Eldian empire did long ago that started this cycle of hatred between the world and the Eldians to begin with; and I feel like the Alliance kind of understands that committing genocide isn’t gonna solve the problem, it’ll just continue the cycle of hatred. But that’s just the nature of this show. I appreciate you guys (especially Ange) for being very open minded about your opinions, and despite not liking certain things, you still try to understand things from their perspective, which I respect.

Enrico Gratzer

Hange was crying as she killed the scouts in episode 8. The yagerists are more than willing to kill them, but why are we so biased against the alliance? It’s worth noting also that armin at the very least was on Eren’s side when he started the rumbling, it wasn’t until he realized Eren wanted to literally kill every man woman and child that he couldn’t support him. The rumbling is not a self defense military strategy, it is a complete and total hard reset to an unjustifiable level. Not even trying to stop it is being complicit.

bruhmingo

You can see Connie and Jean having some reservations about killing, but they did go through the same thing season 3, so they quickly got over it. And mikasa has never been one to hesitate. All business since the beginning.

Skellyp

Isayama intended the audience to feel the way you feel. He literally named the last episode “traitor”. In my opinion the entire point of the show is the conversation between Gabi, Kaya, and Colt in episode 22, right after Gabi saved Kaya. You guys should rewatch it and it’ll honestly clear a lot of things up for the reasons things are unfolding the way they are. I remember when I first watched these episodes they were some of my favorites only because everything started to click for me about Annie, Reiner, and Bert and the conversation on the armored between the scouts & Bert in season 2 on why they would kill their comrades. They even played the same music from that scene in the Connie killing his comrades scene in episode 26. Armin even had a flashback of Bert struggling trying to explain his actions in season 2. From the moment Armin destroyed that port to Connie killing Samuel & Daz, Armin finally understood Annie, Reiner, & Bert’s actions, and through him we’re supposed to too. It’s made in a way that you quite literally can understand every single character’s motivations because they all believe they’re doing what’s morally correct, whether our audience bias believes it’s correct or not. I guess you can say that world doesn’t care what characters the show focused on. I just sit back and watch how things unfold.

Musab imran

For me it's hard to be on the side of the Alliance. Because it's genocide vs. genocide, Isayama has made it clear peace is not an option in this world. So should the people of Paradis die just because they are fewer? If Eren hadn't started the rumbling, the world would have come to wipe out Paradis. If the Alliance stops Eren now, Paradis will be completely defenseless. They no longer have walls, a large part of the Jaegerists are dead and their strongest weapon, Eren, would be gone too. How does the Alliance plan to protect Paradis after stopping Eren? There is no plan, you are handing your own people over to the enemy. And the fact that Mikasa is literally bathing in the blood of her compatriots doesn't make the whole thing any better either. I understand stopping Eren is the right thing to do. But what then?

Namikaza

struggling with the real human emotions and possiblities of the situations in these episodes; is suppose to happen; But you can still enjoy the badassery of the action as an anime. But also a thought; do you scrafice the one for the many (pardis for the entire world)?????

roy wiggs

Ik how I'd act In this scenario I'd join eren and floch. It's a shame really because if i was there i would've got shit done much quicker and changed the world.

J1_A1

Why should the Alliance care to kill their people when the Jaegerists are doing the same. They turned a lot of soldiers into titans. Armin's original plan wasn't to kill, but the dumb lady azumabito messed it up and then they had to fight. Well that doesn't really matter because the Alliance is so badass they got out of that situation. Eren better get ready. 😤

Mr Joker

Ange, your frustration and exhaustion watching these last couple of episodes is apparent. Sorry everyone's comments appear to be wearing you down. Hopefully having a good long break before jumping into Part 3 will be the breather you need. Carlie, you're a gem as always, and of course always right in all of your analysis 😜. Hang in there guys, the home stretch! Looking forward to the discussion/wrap-up.

Jaypee87

This is so well articulated and good to read especially after getting caught up in the heat of the episode. And we appreciate the kind words. -Ange

Carlie & Ange

Put yourself in the same situation. It isn't easy to say "I'm going to kill my friends of 6 years to save people on the other side of the earth". Better yet, it's even harder to say "We're safe now but let's save them from dying horrible deaths so by the time I'm raising my children, they come and try to kill me, my kids, my spouse, my parents, and anyone else I know and love. It's easy to say Eren is in the wrong from the outside looking in. But in the real world, being "righteous" will get you shot in the fucking head.

Blood Shot

I do agree with what you said. I even understand the Jaegerists actions, including Floch who is getting a thrill out of oppressing the world and to an extent some of his own people. The story has just become much bigger than a "us vs them" scenario which is why I understand the Alliance's actions and why they are doing what they are doing. The alliance teaming up to me is a step in the right direction because up until this point it has always been "well you killed us so we will kill you" and the Scouts finally putting their foot down, as hard as a decision it was (best expressed through Jean's arc this season), is really the first attempt in this story to stop the senseless cycle. You could say well if Eren succeeds and it's just Paradis won't it stop? But as Kiyomi has said and Floch has showed that it will just cause the same conflict in a smaller area, especially now that Paradis island is divided from the families who had home and loved ones crushed from the walls crumbling and have resentment towards Eren and the people who think Eren is a hero for saving them. If you look back in the AoT history lore, the first Great Titan War started because Eldia conquered everything and ran out of enemies to fight, so the power struggle continued from within. Will the alliance's shaky plan at best work? Who knows, but as Niccolo eluded to earlier in the season "Even if we can't escape the forrest we at least have to keep trying", which I feel the alliance is trying to do. Sorry for the wall of text, love your guys reactions, top 5 for me in all of the AoT reactors.

NissanZaxima

idk if you missed out on a certain thing, look at conny when they woke up reiner, he stared at reiner like he's disgusted of him him because of his betrayal (remember when he pushed onyakonpon to the wall and said he's sick of getting betrayed) and now he helped reiner and annie by defending them because when he shot his comrades at the boat he realised they (the two people at the boat) were his friends but he "needed" to betray them and kill them (just like reiner and bertholt) so i think this was the moment he realised he can't blame reiner anymore, like this little, not much noticeable, character arc of conny so much

hasan1204

The people who say no are psychopaths lol

Riley

How is it hard to pick a side? Eren wants to kill everyone on earth, he is wrong. How the hell can people be on the fence???

Riley

Also it’s hard to sympathize with Paradis anymore either, since the country is now run by a Fascistic regime that has no problem forcing servitude on different races of people, bombing government buildings, using gang-like violence to initiate recruits, gleefully executing unarmed prisoners, and is generally fine with mass genocide. It makes total sense that the Alliance would feel alienated by that shift towards violence, the “scouts” as we’ve known them don’t really exist anymore. They’ve taken the easier route and embraced the violence and bigotry of the world. Ironic since Eren seems so set on wiping it out everywhere else

Aidan Barrett

It's really hard to pick sides but if I had to choose I would side with the alliance. In my opinion Eren is wrong. I know he is doing it to save his people, but like Armin said all they needed to do was show rumbling to the world so that the others would be too scared to attack Paradis, not genocide. Eren still has a few years left to live so I think Eren could've just done a smaller scale rumbling to scare the world. Then they could pass the founding titan to Historia or her child after Eren so they would always have the option of rumbling (as Zeke was able to remove the brainwashing of the first king). I know they are killing their own people but it is still better than genocide if they are able to stop Eren without killing him and still have the power of the founding titan. They are not ignorant now of the outside world like they used to be. Also, Paradis now has 5 of the 9 titans (assuming Eren has captured Zeke) so they would have a much better chance of defending themselves in the future even if they stop rumbling now

Ruined King

Turza

@Iaras I’m not so sure an “all-sides are bad” type of argument would be fair. (Though Carlie & Ange still have 1 episode and Part 3 left so we’ll have to wait and see where they both side with!) So since this already happened in the anime (though was probably hard to see) but in the manga, in what would be episode 2 of Season 4 Part 1, they show a clearer shot of the world map which Isayama just made as a slightly altered Earth that’s flipped. Marley is Africa and Paradis is Madagascar, so if we assume populations would be similar in this world in what could be considered a WWII period: The entire world had a population of around 2 Billion, while Paradis would’ve had around 4 million (though with the walls confining them and deaths from titans I would estimate around 500k-1 million instead). So going off this estimation, essentially the Jaegerists would be killing 99.999% of the world (which while there’s malevolent nations like Marley, it also includes more innocent/unknowing people than one could realize) and saving the 0.001% of people whom not all are even on board with the genocide plan. I’m just not sure how the Alliance/scouts could be viewed as wrong when people like Onyankopan who gave their lives to help Paradis, only to be betrayed and forced to watch his people, who were also victims of oppression from Marley, get trampled by Eren and the Jaegerists.

Ben

Falco = Falcon

CrazyKonty

I think it’s easy to miss the bigger picture at play here. There’s always going to be a moral dilemma as to what the right choice is going to be, it’s not really a matter of who’s right or wrong since depending on your perspective everyone has a different idea of what’s right. I think trading the lives of billions of people for the sake of your friends is inherently selfish, even if you’re doing it for a “good” reason. Eren, by forcing his friends to accept his choice to genocide the entire world, has essentially taken away their right to choose their own fate. He’s taken away their idealogical freedom and forced them to be benefactors of mass murder.

Aidan Barrett

Everything is in extremely gray areas at this point that makes it hard to root for anyone or explicitly say one is the "good guy" and the other the "bad guys", however putting myself in the world of AOT I would no doubt choose stopping global genocide that would kill millions of innocents over the massacre of everyone who doesn't live on the island (even though, yes, it might be the island's downfall). I also don't think the show is trying to make it like the alliance is doing the right thing by the speech Yelena gave 2 episodes ago, she called everyone out on their actions and said they were so enthralled by the idea of saving the world that their actions would be forgiven if they did save the world (simply put), however this is obviously not the case and to achieve stopping the rumbling the alliance will and are doing things that definitely aren't the "right thing". Long comment but just wanted to leave my thoughts, excited for the finale which is probably my favorite episode! :)

MarcoAHM

Haha yeah, it’s an exhausting watch indeed.

Carlie & Ange

When I first saw these episodes I felt exactly like you, Ange. And it's hard to watch cause I couldn't root for the Alliance but I didn't want Mikasa or Armin to die either.

Mihai Sarbu

I mean, I get this point that you’re making. I even agree with it. But would you not also agree that they are trying to protect the island and their families and themselves as best as they can? I love Hange, dont get me wrong, but she is not the person who is going to be responsible for saving Paradis. Not in the slightest. But i get your point 💯

Carlie & Ange

My dude Reiner, Annie, and Bertholdt went to the walls and destroyed them after years of brainwashing. When they did it and saw that the people living in the walls were just like them, they instantly regretted it and are living with the guilt of it all. Eren Jaeger admits to Reiner that the people of Marley are also good and that it isn’t their fault in hating Eldians because they are programmed to do so. He sees that there are good people and bad people. Reiner, Annie, and Bertholdt killed innocent people not knowing the truth, while Eren killed hundreds, if not thousand of innocent people At the beginning of the season KNOWING they are nothing but innocent bystanders.

Julio Magdaleno

Ange brother are you completely forgetting the Jaegerists were going to plug Levi in the head when he was near death to finish them off until Hange jumped in the river? Then they went out to hunt them down after they escaped? Or the fact that Floch had Jaegerists kick the shit out of Shadis just for initiation? Why would Hange give a shit about killing them when they went after her first and overthrew her as the military leader?

NissanZaxima

I’d just like to come to my own defence here 😆 I’m am not blinded by my love for Eren. I’ve made it abundantly clear that I love Eren as a character, not a person. As long is he stays well written and compelling, I’m happy. I don’t need him to “win”.

Carlie & Ange

Not yet!

Carlie & Ange

now replace the yaegerist there with the scouts. “ Are the scouts not traitors by overthrowing the government just because they disagreed with their leadership? (Season 3 coup). Their plan to (capture Annie/closing the gate/save Eren) resulted in their own people being crushed and killed then claimed for it to be a "necessary sacrifice". (All Season 1-3 Battles). Ange is right, all sides suck

laras

Erwin's coup was after they proved that the ruling nobles were abusing their power and oppressing the citizens. Definitely a coup, but justified in response to blatantly evident oppression. The Jaegerists took power by cold-blooded chemical warfare so that they can commit genocide on a scale that is unimaginable by the human mind. Their plan will reduce the world to a few thousand culturally/ethnically homogenous people. All that said, it's still a situation of being between a rock (genocide of the Eldians by the Global Alliance) and a hard place (the rest of the world genocide by the Rumbling). If they don't Rumble the world, they get wiped out. It's the trolley problem on a grand scale.

Josh Knoebel

Right? Some of them are so behind that you end up forgetting they are still on season 2 when everyone is freaking out about the rumbling etc lol.

Cyber

It must be 😆 worst timing. And the ham

Carlie & Ange

Oh my god, I know that you guys said it’d be a few days until episode 28 upload but I just kind of want to know if you have seen the episode or not 😂

laras

Would you say that Falco's titan looks kind of bird like? Almost like a... falcon? xD The bird titan!

Josh Knoebel

I think Ange is severely blinded by his love for Eeren. So much so he's downplaying what the story is trying to do by nitpicking little things about how the Scouts are acting. I feel like this is exactly what lead to some being "disappointed" with the Manga ending. Keep in mind I haven't seen it yet myself. I think it's definitely funny though because his reaction and other Jeagerists reactions str precisely what Isayama is playing on.

D

Erwin did the coup after the fake plan when Pyxis saw the reactions of the nobles. The Yeagerists just fed spinal fluid to the military without knowing their intentions. I agree that not all of them are fascists, they are scared people too, but they chose genocide nevertheless 😣

pan dan

The final episode of this season makes me cry

RepliCant

1. Remember Erwin did a coup in season 3. Doing a coup is not always something bad for a country. 2. Some of them yeah want to kill the rest of the world but others are not FOR it but now that it's here they don't want it to be stopped by fear to be destroyed after. The idea that the jeagerists are all nazi nationalists blood thristy is a shortcut that people like to have a very bad team and a good team. It's more complex. Ange is only frustrated by that However we should support the scout because they don't lose their humanity and fight for what is right for the world.

Luna lanes

What’s brilliant about these episodes is that even though our guys are winning the fight it never feels triumphant. Even though they’re trying to “save the world”, the scouts don’t feel like the heroes of the story anymore. But that’s war, there are no heroes. Everyone is trying to “save the world”

Courtland Brown

@Ange Are the Yaegerist not traitors by overthrowing the government just because they disagreed with their leadership? Their plan to enable Eren to active the rumbling resulted in their own people being crushed and killed then claimed for it to be a "necessary sacrifice". At least The Alliance is committed to saving at least one group. As Carlie mentioned, the moment my friends or family commit to something like genocide morally I have to cut ties with them... it doesn't take away the love or memories I had for them.

DJ

The scouts are not being hypocritical, they never wanted genocide and can’t bear to have their best friend wipe out the world for them, that’s a lot of guilt blood to have on your hands. Also I can’t be angry at annie Reiner, magath, onyonkopon, gabi and falco who need to kill eren or at least stop him in order to save their loved ones. Their actions are totally understandable here which I don’t think you have talked about or I may have missed it

Sean Carroll

I think the show's intention isn't to say any plan or people are bad, but everything is neutral. I think the show is trying to just present the reality of the situation, show why these characters think what they think, and allow viewers to observe how everything unravels. Because personally, I'm not agreeing or rooting for any one side. I just have my characters I like Eren, Levi, Armin, Mikasa, Reiner, etc. I understand all their actions, they are "justified" in the sense that it makes sense why they believe what they believe and want to do what they want to do, but I don't necessarily think any of it is morally good. I'm just watching and seeing how the story unravels, going with the flow essentially and not pressuring myself to side with any side or plan.

Sam

I mean, i’m really trying to be as least simplistic as possible and really understand every one of these characters and their motives and some really just dont add up for me. But you’re right, there’s still more that the story has to offer.

Carlie & Ange

Yo wtf, WAS THAT THE FEMALE TITANS BLOOD?

Dookie

That’s gotta be the weirdest reaction to magath and shadis death I’ve ever seen hahaha

Sean Carroll

KING FLOCH 👑

Sean Carroll

I think in some cases Ange is thinking too simplistic about the entire situation but maybe the last part will help alleviate your concerns. Don’t want to spoil anything

Sean Carroll

Your teamwork is really good. You bring the best out of the other one.

Luna lanes

To the point that they’re killing their own people: these are the same Jagerists that knowingly wiped out the entire military with Zeke’s spinal fluid. They were actually traitors first who killed their own first so I mean is this conflict reaching this point really that surprising?

Aaron S.

I feel like Ange keeps forgetting that the Alliance is killing nationalists who enforce military control, organized a coup to the actual military of the island and want to kill the whole planet :P Even if someone of the Yeagerists is good or an old friend, they are trying to kill the Alliance for their genocide plan to succeed. The question is, will you go against your old friend if your ideologies come up to be fundamentally opposite?

pan dan

I mean. they were already slaughtering their own people in season 3 past 1. those soldiers they killed also mostly did nothing wrong. unlike these ones that are comitting a genocide. but yes, I can see where you're coming from

Martina

Unfortunately not for a few days at least because it’s going to be an extremely long video 😆

Carlie & Ange

OMG😂😂😂😂

Sammie

Eren regenerating his body… and I think of Eren like Deadpool and his tiny legs 😂😂😂

Carolina

Floch was kinda channeling Erwin with that speech

Martina

Will we get the last one today?🤩

Y Y

85 down 1 to go and you're all caught up!

Zeli

this is the best episode of the second part to me.

Pablo

"He's chilling on a rib" 😂😂😂 He's probably enjoying the view from up there :3 Ange with the facts again! It's totally normal to feel that way, the events of season 4 have left a sour taste in my mouth. It's hard to see Eren committing genocide, and the scouts killing each other, they've fought together, and now they're fighting each other! I wish there was some other solution to all this tragedy, but nothing seems to be working! (don't come at me, but I wish I could just grab Eren, take him somewhere safe, give him a big hug, and tell him he's free and can rest now. BUT I CAN'T 😭😭)

Sammie

I'm glad Carlie finally join our cause. :)

The Plot Armored Titan

LONG LIVE THE ALLIANCE!!!

The Plot Armored Titan

Only 1 left 😭 can't wait to see y'alls reaction to the season finale! Couldn't have ended better imo

Val

Let’s go! I appreciate the frequency of uploads on this channel. There are other AoT channels that started before these guys and are barely getting into season 3

GB3

Early 🥰

jay