Star Trek TNG: 203-205
Added 2025-09-10 12:00:09 +0000 UTCEpisodes: Elementary Dear Data, The Outrageous Okona, Loud as a Whisper
Go to this site: Cinebingers.ca for the unedited versions of all our content.
👉 https://cinebingers.ca/29t8Ygzle1 👈 for the full reaction where you do not need your own copy.
👉 https://cinebingers.ca/d100vUBIY2 👈for the full reaction where you need your own copy.
If you are on a phone/tablet, hold down the link above and press "open in browser", or go straight to Cinebingers.ca on your browser app.
Comments
George, I think you missed the point about Elementary, My Dear Data. Geordi is Data's best friend (it's not a random pairing). He understands that Data's dream is to be a human. When he explains what the fun is, he's not saying "You can't say it's fun." He's explaining what makes humans like it.
Blake N
2025-11-13 20:10:06 +0000 UTCOkona is Han Solo if you ordered him on Temu or Wish.com 😆
Marcus Hicks
2025-09-22 09:03:03 +0000 UTCSimone commented that one of the ships in Outragous Okona looked really good. That's because it was created for a ST movie. It's the ship that Klingon Doc Brown blows up at the beginning of Search for Spock.
Michael Kemmet
2025-09-17 13:53:17 +0000 UTCRiva rhymes with Diva. And he is royalty. Also George’s comment about how others are viewed as a general barbarism terminology is interesting. As I have learned recently propagandizing is not a modern cultural practice even ancient peoples exaggerated the others.
SpankTheMonk
2025-09-16 04:35:06 +0000 UTCInteresting - I see that, probably less sophisticated writing. However I do think there is some pushback
SpankTheMonk
2025-09-16 04:31:29 +0000 UTC🫠
SpankTheMonk
2025-09-16 04:29:56 +0000 UTCNice catch 🖖
SpankTheMonk
2025-09-16 04:29:15 +0000 UTCLove that the researcher involved is named Worf 🙂
SpankTheMonk
2025-09-16 04:24:19 +0000 UTCthat cat is like s little grey bear
LazyBoy Stays Up Late Watchin Video Tapes
2025-09-16 04:15:50 +0000 UTCThe issue is, they don't appear to have a career choice. Their ancestors served the royal family as telepathic translators for generations and it's vague whether this role is voluntary or compelled. Does each family have to hand over a child for telepathic training with each generation or new member of the royal line? How much choice do they get? Can they leave if they want? It's one of many ideas from the TNG writers room that they clearly think is cute and a good idea until you really think about the ramifications.
Lincynity
2025-09-15 04:59:34 +0000 UTCIn my head cannon, that was Pulaski's ultimate fate on Trek too. They just never mentioned it.
Lincynity
2025-09-15 04:49:33 +0000 UTCPoor Diana Muldaur. She didn't get gates McFadden sacked. She just filled the vacant slot. (Blame Maurice Hurley - more TNG backstage drama). I hope you earn up to what she bright to the role for it's run. I only wish the TNG folks had the balls to give the send-off she got on LA Law. If your not familiar with it, find the clip. It will be with it.
punterjoe
2025-09-13 20:52:04 +0000 UTCSoo it seems Simone hasn't seen The Nanny, another show we need to have reactions to 😁
Guillermo Antonio Ricci Alvarez
2025-09-13 02:35:42 +0000 UTCI like the idea behind "Loud As a Whisper." Or at least I think I do. I'm sure it's trying to say something about differently abled people. ... The problem I have with it is that it's also trying to make the viewer genuinely think that Riva is this enlightened saint we should be in awe of, who is also handsome and sexy. But frankly, he comes across as creepy, closer to a cult leader; and the episode doesn't seem to be aware of it. Like, when he's trying to seduce Troi, I think we're supposed to find him charming. Edit: I guess I'm just agreeing with George and Simone.
WastedPo
2025-09-12 10:53:41 +0000 UTCSo... If Riva hooked up with Troi, do you think libido translator guy stayed in the room to do the moaning and such? Dirty talk?
Angzarr
2025-09-12 04:20:30 +0000 UTCI miss TOS 😢
Brent bmc_comix
2025-09-11 23:18:51 +0000 UTCAs soon as I saw him, I'm like Rick! I LOVED Once & Again, I was so sad when they took it off air. And that the third season DVD was never released. I have seasons 1 & 2!
Jenny MacRunnel
2025-09-11 22:29:39 +0000 UTCBilly Campbell, the actor of Okona was also considered for the role of Riker, but then only got this small role instead.
fforw
2025-09-11 21:22:09 +0000 UTCI like how in The Outrageous Okona we don't need to know why Okona is so honourable, or why the two factions are so entrenched in their viewpoints. It's a given that Okona is just that kind of guy, that a royal pregnancy demands marriage, and that the gem is a central piece of a ruling family. Most of it you pick it up as it goes, there is no drag in the pace with unnecessary exposition.
PJ P
2025-09-11 18:37:41 +0000 UTCI agree that Data must be protected at all costs. Geordi being 100% on his side and wanting to prove the Doctor wrong was very sweet. Love those two.
Jpsynergy
2025-09-11 18:20:18 +0000 UTCI never noticed: Holmes's violin has a plastic chin guard on it. A violin of the time wouldn't have that. Also, the paper should have been removable.
Robert Cooper
2025-09-11 16:26:20 +0000 UTCI’ve said so myself and absolutely agree with you!
REDR58
2025-09-11 15:53:00 +0000 UTCBilly Campbell! I figured Simone might've known him from Once & Again, a really great drama series from the late 90s, early 2000s. It also stars Evan Rachel Wood and Julia Whelan (who is now one of the most prolific audiobook narrators). The show was definitely in the Gilmore Girls pocket, really well-done.
sarCC
2025-09-11 10:18:53 +0000 UTCDisagree with George saying that Riva's interprets were slaves. Riva is working on a job so his interpreters would be there whenever they are needed. When he is not working I assume they go back and live their own lives. It's a job for them. Riva has the ability to communicate without them. He signs and read lips so in his every day life outside of work they would not be needed. Once Data learned sign language we saw that he could communicate just fine without them. .
Andrew
2025-09-11 10:00:49 +0000 UTCOkona means family.
Gary Fixler
2025-09-11 07:18:25 +0000 UTCHey man, weirdos make the world go round, in a weird way... We collectively metaphorically are the meteor strike that tilted the Earth and made Autumn a thing. You're welcome. Happy Star Trek Day love all yalls
MacGuffinStuff
2025-09-11 02:30:05 +0000 UTCOh man, I would LOVE to see G&S react to the Granada TV versions of the Sherlock Holmes stories with Jeremy Brett. There have been so many adaptations over the years, but those are the best by far, and the most faithful. Absolutely superb.
Angzarr
2025-09-11 02:23:26 +0000 UTCMaugson. Worf Maugson.
Angzarr
2025-09-11 01:58:54 +0000 UTCMy trying to interpret the deaf ambassador like Deana "uh... jazz hands, jazz hands, sparkle fingers, jazz hands?"
Simone's Coconut Squire
2025-09-11 01:49:33 +0000 UTCI'm okay at timing the "SPACE" visually but I realized I'm actually more accurately on time if I listen. Also I'm working on my Patrick Stewart impression, it's coming along, and it's true what, I can't remember his name he's great at impressions, Jimpressions on IG, but it's true, when you try to do SIR Patrick Stewart, your posture improves.
MacGuffinStuff
2025-09-11 01:44:09 +0000 UTCGeorge, Have you figured out the stardates in TNG yet?
Glenner7
2025-09-11 01:40:10 +0000 UTCOh shit I forgot, now you're watching Stranger Things, loving that, but now you're back to 3 episodes. BONUS But for a second I saw the counter still had like 50 minutes and I thought you were going to do your longest outro ever lol, but I was fully invested in your contemplations about Data!
MacGuffinStuff
2025-09-11 01:36:00 +0000 UTCA man apart (Vin Diesel) 🔥🙌
Korpse
2025-09-11 01:35:35 +0000 UTCThis was a fun Star Trek Day. Yesterday I saw on IG that Jack Quaid posted a picture of himself doing the 🖖 and saying "HAPPY STAR TREK DAY!" and I was like, is this really a thing? I thought Cinebinge just made it up, but it was posted Monday so... Edit: September 8th is recognized as Star Trek Day because it commemorates the premier of Star Trek the Motion Picture. I did not know until just now, that is fucking awesome! But wouldn't that be cool, why don't we just all make Wednesday, Star Trek Day, that or you guys switch to Mondays and it would the best part of everyone's Monday, galaxy wide... But what a lot of fun, love that this show, the people that are the show that is, understood not to take themselves too seriously all the time, and that makes the more serious episodes even more impactful to me. I guess what I mean is even here in season 2 we're seeing the show grow into itself and I'm loving this. But of course they're not just fun for the sake of fun, these are about Data specifically and his journey of learning what it is to be fully conscious will always be one of the essential elements of what makes TNG so great. And I say that as someone not just on the Spectrum, I'm riding it. And I love the addition of Guinan, I love Whoopi Goldberg's earliest work especially and that she was a Trekie tracks and I love that too. That's kind of why I went on a bit of rant last night about the Color Purple, I did rewatch it and she is absolutely phenomenal in it, and it was her first real role, and Oprah, I'm not a huge Oprah fan, her show, but she was a fuckin force in that movie, sorry I'm digressing again, but I would love to have seen her in a scene with Meryl Streep, I don't know the context but just those two in frame together, it would be better than Marvel meets DC. And holy shit that IS Teri Hatcher! I kept looking at her side view profile and, is that Teri Hatcher? Then she spoke and knew, wow she was striking. And it reminded me of Michael in The Office, "I share a birthday with Eva Longoria, which will be a great ice breaker if I ever meet Teri Hatcher." (Desperate Houswives, I admit I watched a few episodes, wasn't into it, watched it a few more times just because of Teri Hatcher and Eva Longoria, sorry not sorry).
MacGuffinStuff
2025-09-11 01:06:46 +0000 UTCI can’t recall any discussion of Data being like an Autistic individual before, but it is an interesting observation on George’s part.
REDR58
2025-09-11 00:32:06 +0000 UTCDesperate Ensigns? Lois and Okona?
Simone's Coconut Squire
2025-09-11 00:30:07 +0000 UTCThe outrageous Okona was attracted to the beauty of Teri Hatcher in an uncredited role as Transporter Chief.
Bandaloop
2025-09-10 23:59:46 +0000 UTCI get that people identify with different things and all that, but i seem to take the material on its own right, so that when they tell me this is a robot, i assume he is a robot, not autistic. Any reading into it from my part seems always to come second. Data is a robot in a scifi show exploring the idea of digital, excuse me positronic life, he is closer to chatgtp than he is to person, at least to everyone who hasn't met him; that's how the new doc describes him.
Vlasios Vougiouklis
2025-09-10 23:38:08 +0000 UTCAh yes, I’d forgotten all about that! Well-spotted.
REDR58
2025-09-10 22:52:13 +0000 UTCAlso yes you are so right, Data is amazing representation for neurodivergent people and connected with a lot of people in that community
Fedora The Explorar
2025-09-10 22:27:01 +0000 UTCTrivia: Daniel Davis (Moriarty) was also the captain the of the USS Enterprise... ... in 'The Hunt for Red October'.
Dan
2025-09-10 20:26:11 +0000 UTCI was never afraid of Trek dating itself, I think all the holodeck episodes do good at just not taking itself seriously as a show every while and again. But Elementary Dear Data is also not a fluff episode I love what it does with Moriarty.
Fedora The Explorar
2025-09-10 20:13:51 +0000 UTCFor me, Elementary Dear Data is the first truly *good* episode of the series and where the show actually found its first stepping. Excited to follow you on this journey here forward.
Fedora The Explorar
2025-09-10 20:12:21 +0000 UTCThe writer's obsession with the holodeck was what ultimately killed the show for me. You have almost complete freedom to write your stories because they take place in undiscovered areas of space yet over 20 episodes of the series have portions dedicated to this tech on the ship that lets the crew play make believe. Ugh. You can almost hear a writer speaking in Stuart Smalley voice as he has his daily affirmation, "I know our mission is to explore outer space but sometimes we just need to spend time in our inner space." I will say that the difference I most enjoyed between TOS and TNG is that of Spock and Data who were both very much of their time. Meaning the time they were written in the real world. I'll not say more though as I want George to experience it on his own.
JayF
2025-09-10 19:44:02 +0000 UTCAn interesting thing about teaching the Solaris sign language is that it might result in enabling them to see their world and each other in different terms because of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. The strong form of the hypothesis states that language determines thought and also that linguistic categorisation limits and restricts cognitive categorisation. While this view has fallen out of acceptance by contemporary linguists, research has produced evidence of a weaker version, where the structure of language influences perceptions, without strictly limiting or obstructing them. The hypothesis was a foundation of Ted Chiang's short story "Story of Your Life" that was adapted into the 2015 movie "The Arrival".
GAB
2025-09-10 19:30:46 +0000 UTCAlso, evidently, Campbell was almost hired to play Riker but Frakes obviously won.
REDR58
2025-09-10 18:59:32 +0000 UTCI'd really forgotten how horny this show is
Ph4ZeD
2025-09-10 18:57:19 +0000 UTCLoud as a Whisper: Howie Seago who plays Riva is of course deaf in real life and has appeared on a few other TV series and on stage in a variety of roles. According to Memory Alpha: "He (Seago) petitioned the producers to create a show about deaf people, in part to dispel untrue and prejudiced myths about them. In the first draft, Riva learned to speak overnight after a mechanical translator he used to communicate with his chorus failed. Seago suggested the ending used in the finished episode the day prior to shooting." Marnie Mosiman who plays the Female Chorus is the real-life wife of John de Lancie who plays "Q"! They sure stuffed a lot of people in that Turbolift car when Picard, Troi, Worf, Riva and his Chorus arrived on the Bridge. The Pulaski/Geordi eye surgery storyline will never be directly resolved with Pulaski. This is an excellent Troi episode.
REDR58
2025-09-10 18:54:42 +0000 UTCI'd like to fill George with crumpets.
Ph4ZeD
2025-09-10 18:41:52 +0000 UTCThe Outrageous Okona: William O. Campbell AKA "Billy Campbell" for some time now was the main star of "The Rocketeer" a 1991 Disney action adventure/superhero movie that should be watched. His costar there is Jennifer Connelly. He will not appear again in TNG or any other live action series, but does show up as "Okona" in a few episodes of the animated series "Star Trek Prodigy." Terri Hatcher who played the transporter chief "B.G. Robinson" apparently asked to have her name removed from the show credits because some of her other scenes from the show were cut. She would go on to play Lois Lane in "Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman." Okona's freighter model ship was reused from the "Heart of Glory" episode where the 3 Klingons had commandeered a ship. One of the other spacecraft models was seen in Start Trek 3 The Search for Spock as a smuggler ship that was destroyed by Christopher Lloyd's "Kruge." Worf says that Okona was seen in 3 different crew quarters, so he's visiting with a number of people... The second woman "Diana Giddings," the redhead Okona is seen with when Worf arrives to retrieve him, is played by regular background performer/extra Lorine Mendell and that actor will appear in a number of episodes as different characters. She was a regular stand-in for Gates McFadden. She never speaks in any of these roles and will never be credited. She does have a single speaking role in character in the TV series "Webster" during a sixth season episode in 1989 in which the title character of that show dreams he is on the Enterprise in a crossover of sorts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nY0RCXyLt0 Edit--slightly better video of the TNG/Webster Crossover: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4fiqhj
REDR58
2025-09-10 18:36:55 +0000 UTCRiva sure seemed to go through some character growth, eh? And the point about Worf's professionalism is very important. What he feels, as long as it doesn't affect the mission, is irrelevant.
REDR58
2025-09-10 18:06:58 +0000 UTCDefinitely one of the long list of people who were great on SNL, but that never really crossed over beyond the sketch comedy. He was however in the tragically underrated movie "Johnny Dangerously" which I don't think I've ever seen anyone react to.
Joe Concepts
2025-09-10 18:05:58 +0000 UTCA couple of subjective disagreements regarding the last episode. Firstly I disagree they shouldn't have taken Worf to the planet because he felt weird about it. He's a professional. Worf believed it wouldn't affect his performance on the mission and, knowing Worf, he probably would have said if he thought it would. To swap him out then would show a huge lack of confidence in one of your officers which would have probably been devastating to him. I think it would have been poor leadership to do so. As it happened it was fine. Also I while I agree Riva isn't super likeable I think there are a couple of things here which I disagree with. Firstly, as George has complained of before, to presume the particular nature of the relationship between Riva and his chorus is a bit of TOS style of imposing modern human ethics on an alien culture. They could well have loved being in Riva's chorus and seen it as a huge honour. They don't ever suggest otherwise. Also I think it's a bit unfair to say Riva was making it all about him after they died, even though he is deliberately presented as arrogant in the first half of the episode. He himself WAS the one grieving, so it was indeed somewhat about him - and I just think judging someone who is grieving for the loss of their friends just hours after they have died is a bit harsh - especially after he was clearly blaming himself for their deaths and expressed how bad he felt about that.
Ian Tellam
2025-09-10 17:51:38 +0000 UTCI have a feeling she might remember a certain episode coming in a few weeks, it's quite unBorgettable
SbE
2025-09-10 17:45:12 +0000 UTCUncredited, at that.
REDR58
2025-09-10 17:07:29 +0000 UTCI have always thought of the holodeck safety procedures as less of a 'this image can kill you' toggle and more of a system that is in place to limit any amount of energy or force that can occur within the holodeck. The default state of all this energy is probably lethal unless its restricted in some way so if that system is damaged/disabled the holodeck would become dangerous. I think this is much more likely than starfleet programing a kill mode into their entertainment product.
David N
2025-09-10 17:07:26 +0000 UTCRegarding why Holodeck safety protocols exist, I always thought since you are dealing with real matter with substance as Picard pointed out, there will always be an element of danger, and I feel there are probably certain scenarios where you have to interact with real matter in order to perform experiments or any other possible scenario, for example a campfire, if you want to make real smores in the holodeck, the fire would have to be real in which case the safeties would be off.
The Real Andrew Kim
2025-09-10 16:49:56 +0000 UTCRegarding Riva: He starts off a dick and arrogant because that's the point. Riva has had so much success and has been doing so well in diplomacy that he's let himself become arrogant. He's become so reliant on the Chorus and how he communicates through them that he falls into despair not just because he lost his friends, but because without them, he can't fulfill his purpose as a peacemaker. It's like losing your homies and your entire identity all in one moment. Because of that I think his initial reaction is rather justified. Troi is great though. She helps Riva recenter himself and figure out another way to be effective. The whole episode is about Riva getting too high an opinion of himself and then getting humbled by [God/the Universe/whatever]. With newfound humility he'll meet the challenge of teaching these warring tribes sign language. Also, the Moriarty AI is probably the first time I remember as a child contemplating whether it's flesh that makes us human or our spirit/consciousness. Between that and the Batman TAS episode with the robot Batman, it gave my tiny brain a lot to chew on.
funky weapon
2025-09-10 16:47:07 +0000 UTCA wild Teri Hatcher appears!
Scott McClintock
2025-09-10 16:42:46 +0000 UTCElementary, Dear Data: It’s so nice to see how excited Simone is for these shows. Geordi’s assistant Clancy is played by Anne Elizabeth Ramsay and she will appear again in the series. She was also in “A League of their Own.” You guys REALLY need to watch the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes series. There is no finer interpretation of the character out to the screen. I think Moriarty became self-aware a little too fast before they change the parameters of the program. Notice that Pulaski stepped to the side and out of view right before she screamed. I guess she was beckoned over by somebod and then grabbed.
REDR58
2025-09-10 16:32:46 +0000 UTCI always figured the issue with the Holodeck generating Moriarty wasn't the phrasing as such, it's just that the subject was Data. Any human would be defeated by the computer without using nearly as many ressources, but Data is the biggest challenge to a computer, seeing as he is basically a super computer. That said, why the Holodeck doesn't have a fuse you can pull is beyond me, lol. Just unplug the damn thing. What I don't agree with is the assumption that every violent race is depicted as ugly. Because that would also mean that only pretty races are peaceful, which has been proven false in this season and last. And one thing that has to be stressed: Ugly is YOUR perception. They might've been considered beautiful by many other species. So it makes no sense to assume that ivolent species are always depicted as bestial, you just think them beastial becuase that is your viewpoint.
Thall
2025-09-10 16:31:35 +0000 UTCLove Simone giving Jakey more Ssssspace... fuck! material! Zooooom!
Mastervodo
2025-09-10 15:51:55 +0000 UTCAgh, I guess I said all that before I heard George said the same thing!
Joe Concepts
2025-09-10 15:48:05 +0000 UTCAnother big difference between the Spock and Bones dynamic that the Data and Pulaski dynamic was missing is that Spock actively rejected the Human side of him. Data has made it clear his greatest goal is to become more human. Bones mocking Spock was him saying "See? Humanity is pretty decent too." But when Pulaski mocks Data, it's like she's saying "I already have what you most want, and I am insulting you for not having it."
A Red Mage Named Blue
2025-09-10 15:00:31 +0000 UTCOne can work around that by assuming simple items like the paper, moisture and lipstick are replicated items that linger. The whole this is nonsense, so why not, right?
REDR58
2025-09-10 14:32:50 +0000 UTCThe comic in the 2nd episode was played by Joe Piscopo. He is an ok comedian who was on SNL for a few years in the 80's. He was also in a movie or two. All in all he is mid at best. He was on Snl at basically the same time as Eddie Murphy.
Matt O'Keefe
2025-09-10 14:30:58 +0000 UTCThe main problem with Pulaski is that in having her being kind of critical of Data, he is too much of an innocent character to properly defend himself. We already have come to love Data, and know that he is still kind of a child. So her issues with Data make it some like she's picking on someone who can't fight back. Seems like Pulaski was the producers' intent to make another McCoy, but when he and Spock argued, both were equipped to do so.
Joe Concepts
2025-09-10 14:20:22 +0000 UTCAt this point the writers room hadn't quite decided on a fixed lore of the holodeck was so we keep getting things happening that they later say (including in this very episode) is impossible, such as Data taking the picture of the Enterprise out of the holodeck when it should have disappeared immediately, or in earlier episodes Picard having lipstick on his face or Wesley getting soaked with water that shouldn't exist outside of the room.
Spacedone
2025-09-10 13:49:54 +0000 UTCi think that can be explained away with video game logic. the environment is constantly constructed and deconstructed as you move and base on where you look, like a bubble. so if you just run in 1 direction constantly, then behind you it deconstructs/disappears and the horizon is constantly being created. and anything not in your line of sight, like behind a wall, does not exist.
lalaland
2025-09-10 13:18:16 +0000 UTCOne problem I have with the Holodeck is that the space is clearly limited, but they create large environments and wander around them. Surely they must run into the walls?
WayneC
2025-09-10 13:13:11 +0000 UTCYes, always be careful when vibe coding with AI! Wording is important with prompts. You could extinguish everyone you know, or worse, ruin a company!
Dan
2025-09-10 13:10:08 +0000 UTCI'd like to fill Simone with crumpets.
Kane Is Able
2025-09-10 13:04:08 +0000 UTCOne day, Simone is going to remember an episode of Star Trek. We all wait for that day.
Kane Is Able
2025-09-10 12:31:58 +0000 UTCIndeed, dude. Said episode is a 10/10
JakeyShakeyBakeyBoy
2025-09-10 12:17:47 +0000 UTCG’day and happy Star Trek Day, legends. Been keen for “Elementary…” which is up there for my favourite Data episode! It really shows off how impeccable Brent Spiner is in this role. It’s in this guy’s top 5 favourite Data episodes, the best of which may or may not be fast approaching 🤭 Oh and Daniel Davis who played M in “Elementary…” is best known as Niles in “The Nanny” to us Aussies where he was hilarious. That series was huge back in the day down here
JakeyShakeyBakeyBoy
2025-09-10 12:15:57 +0000 UTCTo me, Elementary, Dear Data is the first truly memorable TNG episode. There's been a handful of really good episodes before, but nothing on the level of E3S2 before. It's here we start to see the potential of where TNG could go. ...and we're only a couple of weeks away from an episode that's considered one of the greats! 😉
dudewheresmycar
2025-09-10 12:15:40 +0000 UTCYou took a break? A break from Star Trek? There are no breaks! There are no breaks from Star Trek!
Kane Is Able
2025-09-10 12:14:26 +0000 UTCStar Trek Day!
Ricky Patton
2025-09-10 12:11:16 +0000 UTCStar Trek Day! I can't wait till you get to Season 3 and then DS9 and Voyager.
ChiefKC
2025-09-10 12:08:38 +0000 UTC
