Star Trek the Animated Series: 204-206

Albatrosses were considered good luck by sailors. If you killed one they would tie it to you and keel haul you. "albatross around your neck" is an unshakable guilt.

Robert Cooper

It’s honestly a problem that recurred across Treks - DS9 S1 suffered from a lot of unused TNG scripts, which is honestly really glaring in retrospect, since the TNG characters are so distinct to themselves, and the DS9 characters would become likewise. DS9 had a shorter learning curve on that at least (figured itself out by end of S1), and later Treks picked themselves up in even shorter timeframes.

Erinn Daum

The motion picture is not as well structured as a typical movie like 2 or other great films but as I and others have said even below it maybe the truest idea (even if the execution is a bit cold) of the ideals of Star Trek. I personally like them all as a unified season 6. And like the MCU to endgame an incredible send off to the next generation (😎) of us and Star Trek media.

SpankTheMonk

Amortization is how it works for TV (and others things where you build once and recoup and profit over time) you build once up front and then the cost is then spread over the seasons.

SpankTheMonk

Oh and one other thing. Most people know the cliche parts of Star Trek which helps it become part of culture/pop or other wise. Human familiarity and recognition is huge for reselling. So toys, images, shirts and phraseology, “Beam me Up”, “He is Dead Jim”, Vulcan 🖖. It became part of culture. The people commenting here still know about ToS even if they say it’s got lots of bad episodes but probably couldn’t name as I much of any other sci-fi content or other shows around the time. Also as mentioned below about naming of objects in real life and in-fusion in culture. 1980s and 1960s tastes are a factor away so keeping the core and improving the core idea in TNG. And as mentioned below the Space Race was huge for TNG and visa versa

SpankTheMonk

Transporter pattern is held at the state of disassembly as information/data that can be reassembled via matter energy conversion - so holding a copy (even with the enormous amount of data). They have great episodes in TNG about it.

SpankTheMonk

If you haven’t shot your reaction already to the Motion Picture , I would like to suggest again allowing yourself to watch/react on your biggest tv with the lights lower to feel the change from the small screen to the big. Also the 4K blue ray cut of the directors version is available and does subtle clean up to effects and matte marks. Cheers 🍻

SpankTheMonk

Also they were working on a new TV series after the syndication popularity and when Star Wars film success happened they pivoted to the film with built in recognition of ToS characters. Which a variety of people commented on below.

SpankTheMonk

Also George's excellent question at the end - Why was Star Trek ressurected from the dead? That's actuall pretty easy. First, Gene Roddenberry never dropped the idea for Star Trek and kept trying to sell it. In 1976, NASA named the first Space Shuttle Enterprise after Star Trek (and had most of the cast on-hand when it was first rolled out for the press) . Then, the next year, Star Wars became a cultural phenomenon and convinced Hollywood that space adventure could generate huge dollars. Every producer was looking for a space adventure to shoot, and Roddenberry already had it all ready, so they were able to quickly get back to filming. So, Star Trek was in the right place at the right time.

Alan Kobb

in Samuel Taylror Coleridge's epic poem, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, the albatross bore the soul of a lost sailor, that looked out for a ship, and was a ship's good luck charm until one sailor killed it The punishment for killing the beautiful albsatross was to wear it around his neck So, the albatross is seen as both bad luck for a ship and a difficult burden to bear If you recall, in Serenity, The Operative refers to River as an albatross around his neck. Mal responds by saying: “As I recall the albatross was a ship's good luck until some idiot killed it... yes, I've read a poem... try not to faint.”

Alan Kobb

I love that question George, why did Star Trek last? I think it's just because it was just so different from anything else, Star Wars probably, ironically, motivated that fan base, Battlestar Galactica, the original series, as cheesy as it was, also fed that fan base, I mean just like you've said so yourself George, you would love to go to space, so would I, and sci Fi I feel always gets a side eye from mainstream culture. But Star Wars made Sci Fi marketable, so did Alien I think (sci Fi horror). Anyways, I'm super chuffed to watch the movies with you guys! Especially 2 and 4, my favorites, 2 is badass and 4 is just fun for me.

MacGuffinStuff

George (on The Counter Clock Incident): "I like this. I could watch a whole movie on this." With reverse bullets, directed by Nolan?

Gary Fixler

Hi Lin, good to see you here :)

JD Nevesytrof

Anyway, Star Trek did well enough in syndication, as well is in novels, and the growing popularity of science fiction conventions in the 70s was what prompted a revival. The rebirth of Star Trek started initially as a low-budget film project in 1975, but there were issues getting a good script. Then Star Wars came out, and that raised the bar in terms of budget and audience expectations for what a good sci-fi movie should be, and so the movie was called off. Shortly after that, in 1977 Paramount decided they wanted to launch what would have been the fourth television network. Star Trek was their biggest IP, and a lot of work had already gone into the movie, so the idea was changed to that of a new Star Trek: Phase II series which would headline the new TV network. Once again, there were script troubles, and then Paramount realized that they couldn't get enough TV stations to make enough ad revenue for a 4th TV network commercially viable. The network idea was pushed back another year, then abandoned. Thus, finally. the return of Star Trek was retooled once again into a movie, Star Trek: The Motion Picture, in 1979. The success of the four movies confirmed the value of the IP, but increasing salary demands for the movie actors led Paramount to believe they would be better offering making TV series with new, unknown actors much more cheaply than to continue to do big-budget movies. That's how TNG was born in 1987. Yes, a lot of Season 1 TNG episodes are bad, but there are good ones as well. Season 2 is better, and the show really hits its stride in Season 3. And despite the bad episodes, the series was a huge hit. Mainly because there was nothing else like it on TV at the time. Star Trek's popularity would mean an uninterrupted series of tv shows and movies from 1987 to 2005.

Bruce Woodcock

George your question about "canceled IPs" really doesn't make a lot of sense. Just in modern times, we've had 4 versions of Superman, 3 iterations of Spider-Man, 3 Hulks, 3 Fantastic Four, 2 X-Men, etc. And if you look at animated series, there are many many more. The actors didn't get too old, either; rather, the iterations reached a point where a "new version" was thought to have a better chance of success. And pretty much every show I know has "good episodes and bad episodes", or even bad seasons. That really doesn't mean anything. If people like the concept, they'll forgive a bad show, because they're still getting something from it they aren't getting elsewhere.

Bruce Woodcock

While a moderate success on release it was on reruns (shown round the world) that built up Star Trek's cult status and cemented it in popular culture. After the success of Star Wars and Superman in the late 70s, there was a demand from studios and audience for high budget science fiction, and because Star Trek had been building up a fanbase throughout the decade it made sense to give to give it similar treatment - more so than trying to do it with a new IP. After the first movie was successful enough to warrant a sequel, then more through the early 80s interest in making a new TV show was rekindled. The problem with TNG (and especially the pilot IMO) is that it initially used quite a few left over ideas from old Trek - as well as Gene Roddenberry being heavily involved in the creative process. I mean, you've seen some Roddenberry episodes, so yeah, everything that comes with that. It definitely struggles to find its own 'identity' for a while. But as S2 goes on, and certainly by Season 3, it starts to define itself much better and more consistently - and comes to define what people think of 'Star Trek' in a much broader way, i feel. I think on rewatches some of this is less noticeable, as you tend to fill in the characterisation in your head with what you know from the later episodes, but coming to it fresh I think it can be a bit unsatisfying and even a bit 'awkward' at times.

Ian Tellam

TOS Movies!!!!! That's my Trek!!!!! :)

Brent bmc_comix

The other big thing that prompted the TOS movies was the success of Star Wars. In the late 70's every major studio wanted to make the next big sci-fi blockbuster, and Paramount decided that they might as well go with a franchise that already had a big fan base.

Darin Foat

“To be…or not to be.”

REDR58

So I wasn't alive back then, but from my understanding, here's how it worked: TOS had a devoted fanbase but limited ratings in its original run. it was almost canceled after Season 2, but fans staged a letter-writing campaign and managed to get it a Season 3. But S3 had its budget slashed and was put in a "death spot" of Friday nights—and, as we remember, the writing wasn't quite up to par with S1 and S2. But S3 got Trek enough episodes to qualify for syndication / re-runs, and the studio put the show in syndication almost immediately after cancellation, to recoup some of the production losses. The re-runs in the 1970s is when interest in Star Trek surged. The show was *much* more of a hit in syndication than it ever was in its original run. By the late 70s people were clamoring for a new show. The Animated Series was a cheap way of reviving the show, but it was only ever conceived as a limited run (which is why there are so few episodes). There was supposed to be a "Star Trek: Phase II" show, but for various reasons it never got made: most notably, Leonard Nimoy held out and wasn't contracted to return, though the rest of the cast was. Still—are you going to do Star Trek without Spock? Yeah right! Nimoy *was* up for doing a movie, so they started to develop the Star Trek movies. The first one debuted to mixed reviews, as you mentioned, but Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan was incredibly well-received—you're going to love it! The characters feel so much more lived-in, and the writing is really strong. This success lead Paramount to develop a new series (TNG) which would reuse some of the unused concepts from Phase II, but with an all-new cast. Season 1 of TNG is a bit rough—it tries to be like TOS a bit too much. Season 2 still has the occasional stinker of an episode, but it's overall a *huge* improvement. The show has fully come into its own by Season 3. With the exception of some early episodes, TNG is (IMHO) a much stronger series. It builds on the foundations laid by TOS. I can't wait to get started!

dc

TOS and Star Trek as a whole have endured for so long partly because of the time it was created. Long-time fans can acknowledge that there are weak TOS episodes but that will never lessen our love for the series. You have to remember when this was released. There was never anything like this on TV before. It was the height of the Cold War and the space race. I had to participate in nuclear attack “duck and cover” drills in grade school and when I got home after school, there was Star Trek (re-runs in syndication) letting me know that the human race was going to not only survive, but thrive. That makes a powerful and long-lasting impression on a young mind. And right before the movies came out, Star Wars exploded and all things in space were hot properties. TOS is quaint and illogical and silly, but it’s also super cool and full of hope. For all these reasons and many more, die hard fans will never forget how this little space show made them feel when we were kids. So I think the studios always knew they could tap in to a wealth of baby boomer interest and wallets. Thanks for watching and I can’t wait for the Cinebinge journey to continue.

Mark Barger

The fifth and sixth Star Trek movies are also original crew, and the sixth is pretty good.

Alex Ch

After watching the animated series again I want to read the Star Trek Logs by Alan Dean Foster, I've only read one and I think there's ten. They are novelizations of the animated episodes but done in a way that it removes all the silliness and makes them serious and more insightful instead of rushed... Also I'm so excited for the movies! I usually watch at work on my tablet but for those I think I'll wait until I can watch at home on my big screen...

Monica Alarcon

Also, "Seven seasons is a lot, even for Star Trek fans." You reaaaalllly don't know Star Trek fans ;)

JD Nevesytrof

Star Trek V should come inside TNG Season 2, Star Trek VI should come inside TNG Season 5, but Star Trek VII does not come until after TNG is completed.

JD Nevesytrof

TMP is a slower movie, for sure, but I enjoy it. Definitely best to go in expecting something more along the lines of "2001: A Space Odyssey" than "Star Wars".

dc

D. T. Nelson

The first Star Trek movie was considered a bit of a disappointment after Star Wars had spiffed up the entire genre (its not horrible, just a slow thinker's movie rather than action packed), but starting with II, the II-III-IV combo were a great and interconnected run, and really locked in the idea of Star Trek as a movie franchise despite erratic results ever since.

Cc Decc

So....the first four TNG are next week and then you'll start the movies...? 😇😉

StonyD

You could mash a SciFi classic show like Farscape, StarGate or The Eternaut inbetween TNG Seasons, just too add flavor. Maybe Babylon 5 inbetween DS9 seasons, so you can judge if DS9 is a rip-off for Babylon 5. Star Wars renewed interest in sci-fi, so they got the money for the first movie, and the TV show was syndicated so it got aired lot everywhere, and that started the ball rolling. Also TOS it was so innovative that many people were astounded by it. But it doesn't hold up to modern standards.

Theo Bracco

To how the IP endured: first, the idea that every episode of a TV show needs to be great is a relatively new idea. Second, the original series was more popular after it originally aired. Third, the next two series (TNG and DS9) were syndicated, no fixed network.

John M.

So. For TNG, Paramount went direct to syndication for release. This meant that it was very common to find TNG running on local non-“network” stations, often in the UHF band. These would be the types of stations that would run reruns of early sit-coms/dramas or B-movies. (Especially b-horror movies). Non-network stations were a whole vibe back in the day.

Scott McClintock

^ how to ensure S&G will never take your suggestion seriously. by making a bad comparison then shutting the door refusing any possible discussion like a petulant child.

robodong

Yeah! It's called "Shades of Grey"! 🤣

dc

The Transporter isn't just making a clone of the people who use it, except in the episodes where it does...... When it comes to people saying these episodes/season are rough etc but the IP surviving, keep in mind that those comments come from a modern audience talking to you as members of a modern audience; people had seen far less 50-60 years ago or even 30-40 years ago for TNG. Watching Star Trek in the 90s, it was doing stuff I hadn't seen before but it isn't going to measure upto Severance which is now doing stuff I've never seen before. With that said TNG Season 1 doesn't compare well even to season 3 of TNG, season 2 is better and does have at least one episode (the initiated all know the episode) which is an all time great.

Alan Pownall

I was surprised that Simone didn't suggest "The Gilmore Girls" for a break in TNG. I was even more shocked when Netflix suggested "The Gilmore Girls" after th eend of the final episode of the animated series.

WayneC

Season 3 of TNG is my personal favourite run of the whole show but every season has winners that get rewatched - when I get around to watching them at certain times of year, that is. Anyways these were a fun watch the past weeks ☺️

JakeyShakeyBakeyBoy

Maybe the fanbase grew with the movies. Watching with you was teh first time I have seen TOS, but I have seen the TOS movies.

WayneC

Monica Alarcon

7 seasons of TNG that are great. I probably have watched TNG all the way through 50 times. It’s great.

Mushie Motion

Since i'm one of those who absolutely ADORE the first Star Trek movie, i can't even tell you how excited i am about next week.

Opti_Frog

This is a list of release order for the older Trek shows and movies someone made. The only spoilers are episode and movie titles. https://startreklist.blogspot.com/2011/04/list-of-all-star-trek-episodes-sorted_05.html?m=1

Lincynity

Not sure if you're aware but there's overlap with the different Star Trek shows if you stick to release order, and the TNG movies reference and are referenced by other shows and shows reference each other. Basically, strict release order is optimum but you can watch an entire show before moving to the next if you're okay with minor spoilers and a few references that won't make sense for a while. You can even watch them out of order and it will all make sense eventually, but the movies, trying to be vague but there's one show that has huge spoilers for a movie, and a movie that has a massive spoiler for an entire show. So how the TNG movies fit around the shows matters more than with the TOS movies because 90's Trek is more cross-pollinated. Also each show has a different vibe and it can break things up a little if you overlap.

Lincynity

"The word albatross is sometimes used metaphorically to mean a psychological burden (most often associated with guilt or shame) that feels like a curse. It is an allusion to Samuel Taylor Coleridge's poem The Rime of the Ancient Mariner (1798), in which a dead albatross is tied around the neck of a sailor who has brought misfortune to the crew." Mal Reynolds referenced it in the movie "Serenity".

WayneC

yes, we're going with release order. so during TNG periodically it would be the other movies.

George Simone

When you guys first started watching TOS, I got excited because I couldn’t wait until you get to the movies and next gen. Love you guys!

ComradQuestion

Why just the first four? Are you going by production chronology rather than storyline chronology?

SJB

Just to be clear, does that mean the first 4 Star Trek movies will begin next week, after that you'll start TNG?

Lincynity

Yaaaay movies and TNG

Ph4ZeD