The Last of Us: 201 & 202 - Edited
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Comments
Well put! Also the fact that Joel does not tell Ellie about what went down shows that he himself knows he did something bad and he doesn't want her to find out. She would have gone along with the plan to sacrifice herself for a cure and the decision to save her was a selfish one from Joel because he did not want to lose her. We like Joel because we have followed him but he's not a good person generally speaking and he's a bad guy to a lot of people (Abby for example).
Jimmy Olofsson
2025-05-11 10:11:55 +0000 UTCOh boy, let the controversy begin. A big thing to remember is that when Joel killed the fireflies he wasn’t thinking about the possibility of a cure not working, or if the FF had a proper distribution plan. He only did it to rescue someone he loved, regardless of consequences. And another thing to keep in mind is that from Abby’s perspective Joel is a psychopath that ruthlessly murdered a bunch her friends and father with zero hesitation, so for her to not grant him the easy way out of a quick death shouldn’t be that surprising to anyone. Not justifying anything, but it’s pure human nature on display. Her father was taken from her, and now she’s unknowingly taken someone else’s. The writers aren’t even being remotely subtle about the cyclical nature of it all. Anywho, let’s just see how it plays out, shall we!
Alec Picard
2025-05-10 22:09:14 +0000 UTCStill a better death than Oberyn though LOL
Nathan Jasper, the Artist Formerly Known as Primary
2025-05-10 18:32:18 +0000 UTCI definitely hated Abby at first but I've been playing through the 2nd game again (and watching the show) and I really appreciate the story they are telling. If you think about it, if you feel Ellie is now justified in seeking revenge on Abby for what she did to Joel then you must also agree Abby was justified in her revenge that sets this season off. Everyone is the hero of their own story and Joel as much as we love him was a villain in a lot of other people's story. If you think about this from Abby's perspective she was with a group of people who probably treated her real nice, a community, her dad was just a surgeon and they think they have a cure, only for some guy to kill the entire camp and her dad (who was unarmed). A big theme of this is violence breeding more violence and that the cycle is bound to continue.
Jimmy Olofsson
2025-05-10 16:32:52 +0000 UTCI had the same question about why Joel didn't say anything about Ellie and what the Dr's were doing to try and save himself. But I saw someone make a good point. Joel wanted to protect her above all else, and revealing here secret would just put more focus on her, for them to try again. So he did it to save her.
Sean Hennessy
2025-05-09 20:57:20 +0000 UTCKeep in mind for Joel humanity are the monsters. A human murdered his daughter not Clickers. I think for Joel humanity isn't worth saving especially at the price of Ellie's life. But he did take that choice away from Ellie, because he knows what she'd choose. It is selfish but he didn't want to lose her.
cory hawks
2025-05-09 19:04:38 +0000 UTCAbby killed our daddy🥲
Anamondaris
2025-05-09 18:53:11 +0000 UTCJoel lies to Ellie because he knows she wouldn’t agree with what he did. She needs her immunity to mean something and even if there was a 1% chance of it being of use and she had to die for it, he knows she would have. Yeah the Firelies should have asked Ellie but Joel knows that wouldn’t have changed things so he has an opportunity to get the outcome he desires. You can argue whether or not he was right or wrong to do what he did but I think even he knew there was the potential for a fatal fallout following his choice.
Fraser
2025-05-09 17:28:42 +0000 UTCtake something from her? bruh you need to watch S1 again. Ellie was already unconscious when she was brought to the fireflies, she didnt choose anything, Marlene took the choice away from her when she decided to just kill her before she gets to say yes or no, while she was unaware. i dunno what youre mixing the show with but Joel "did something to her without her consen"??? wtf are you even talking about
robodong
2025-05-09 17:26:33 +0000 UTCThe stuff with Ellie has nothing to do with youth. It's more to do with the fact that a middle-aged man did something to her without her consent when she was 14 & then gaslit her about for 5 years. He took her purpose away from her, so she has a pretty tentative view of her own value. It's a pretty deep thing that the games/show are presenting & it's very efficiently written. Worth studying.
rafermadness
2025-05-09 17:23:49 +0000 UTCi agree about the owing to humanity to save everyone if theres even a slight chance. the only thing for me though is that the fireflies plan just seems... bad. Ellie is the only source for a potential vaccine, and they got straight to brain harvesting? it just feels like theres a loooot of steps they skipped, like its a really big if to bet her life on. on top of that, the fireflies just seems like they were already dying out, their bastions and facilities were all overrun and abandoned, and to create a vaccine is a huuuge undertaking, and it just doesnt seem like they had any reasonable capabilities of doing it. if it were myself, i think i would 100% volunteer to be the guinea pig to save humanity, but if upon my first day at the facility i hear that theyre going straight for killing me, i would back out. not just out of fear of death, but doubt in their capabilities and reasoning. as for the revenge, i can sympathize with the need for revenge. but torture is a different matter...
George Simone
2025-05-09 16:36:08 +0000 UTCI take it like this, if it's the post apocalypse I owe it to humanity to do everything in my power to find a cure for the infection. Joel could have easily woken ellie up and asked her opinion and I can tell you with certainty she would have chosen to sacrifice herself because that is what you do if you have immunity and the only way to study that immunity is by opening me up. When it comes to abbys revenge, It doesn't matter how it happened, if you directly murdered my parents you best believe I will look for you to the end of the earth and back if I have too and when I do find you, you best believe I'm going to let out everything that's in my heart and your gonna have to listen. All in all they definitely messed up the abby introduction imo, in the game there is no speech, there is no sense of cruelty that I got from the show but I don't mind it because it's realistic for someone who has been hurt like abby to relish in her revenge. The game was much more efficient and straightforward.
jose giron
2025-05-09 15:52:30 +0000 UTCPedro is the new Sean Bean. He has been killed off 11 times including in Buffy :) For people that never played the game I think having Pedro Pascal as Joel made people like him more. Joel really is kind of a jerk hard ass but much more loveable in the show just because it's Pedro.
Da Big Appa
2025-05-09 15:00:19 +0000 UTCI didn't play the games but I still knew about this spoiler going in. I'm glad(?) you guys managed to go into this one blind.
8bitAndy
2025-05-09 14:42:03 +0000 UTC“This actress kind of looks like game Ellie.” Fun fact, Kaitlyn Dever was going to play Ellie in a movie adaptation that Sam Raimi was working on about a decade ago that obviously never came to fruition. She got as far as doing a table read and everything, and Neil Druckmann told her the big twist in the second game (which they were working on at the time) while she was at Naughty Dog studios. And then when the movie didn’t happen, he put her in Uncharted 4 as Nathan Drake’s daughter.
Jeff K
2025-05-09 13:59:53 +0000 UTCFrom Abby's perspective.. Joel killed dozens of her friends and her father. She reacts by hunting down and killing Joel for revenge.. The argument now.. is that is what Ellie does worse? Who, if anyone, is in the right?
Mark Causer
2025-05-09 13:12:18 +0000 UTCI was wondering whether you guys know what happens in the second game but I guess I'll find out about 30 minutes into this video...
Jeff K
2025-05-09 12:47:14 +0000 UTCAw man y’all in for a ride
Big Gee
2025-05-09 12:44:02 +0000 UTC
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