Doc's Guitar 1970
Added 2020-10-04 14:34:13 +0000 UTCHi all,
I hope you enjoyed the first iteration of Doc' Guitar. As I mentioned, I couldn't decide which version to transcribe as each was unique and posed different questions about what was intentional and what was a "happy accident." This is from the Doc Watson on Stage album, recorded live in 1970. There is more regularity in the alternating bass, and the B section is a little different. This one makes his original recording sound slightly relaxed, as he is playing over 300bpm. The transcription is attached below
Comments
Hmm. I'd agree that that RGD has a heavy right hand, but would not necessarily correlate that with the thumb and one finger approach. When I think of a heavy right hand I'm thinking that the player either often powers through multiple strings with one finger, as RGD certainly does, or they just play with incredible projection, someone like Alex de Grassi. de Grassi can project incredible tone unamplified, but his attack is very clean and controlled. I have a feeling RGD was both, though never had the privilege to see RGD live. The reason I say I don't think that a heavy right hand and using only two fingers are uniquely related, is think about someone like c. 1971 Kottke or Fahey through most of his career. Both were three finger players, I think it could be said both have a powerful, or heavy right hand. Kottke very frequently played through more than one string with either the thumb or the index or middle. Fahey had some pieces where that technique was very much a part of the piece, think Sligo River Blues. All of these points said, I hear what you say when you talk about balance with the bilateral approach to using thumb and one finger. Thumb is down, index is up. But this only carries weight, in my opinion, when thumb is on the down portion of the beat and index is on the up. We know RGD would use thumb or index on either portion of the beat. Doc is more likely to have thumb on the down and index on the up, excepting the rolls where he uses two index fingers followed by thumb. That gets me to the last part of your question, and I may have touched on this in the play through. I feel Doc's compositional or technical approach is limited by his use of two digits. Usually he is picking thumb and index together, or alternating pipi. He then will do the rolls to switch things up, piipiipiipii. He may have used other patterns, but I'm not aware of them yet.
Andrew Lardner
2020-10-23 18:32:09 +0000 UTCI've heard Rev Gary Davis described as having a "heavy right hand" and his Thumb and 1 finger picking style is essential to get his thumb-heavy sound. (Presumably, using more than one finger would alter the hand's balance and you wouldn't get the same heavy, thumb-emphasizing sound.) Applying the concept of picking hand approach influencing one's sound, what elements of Doc Watson's sound are the result of his thumb and 1 finger approach?
John Good
2020-10-23 14:54:34 +0000 UTCJohn, many good points and I'd like to go more in depth with my thoughts later, I have lessons all day starting in 15 minutes so only a short amount of time to put some thoughts down. From my research thus far, the early version that he called Ticklin the Strings started in about 1964. It was more simple harmonically, and the B section (what you are referring to as the third section) was a bit different. By 1965 we have the album version, and I believe a small cluster of performances where the B section was similar. By about 1966 or 1967 the B section evolved to what was in the 1970 version I presented (emphasis on rolling on the 2nd and 3rd strings, E7 shape, and ascending bass to start) and seemed to be consistent in its form from there. I think of that as his most evolved presentation. I still can't come to a consensus about what is intentional in the bass for the A section. If I were trying to come up with a normalized arrangement, I would lean toward wanting to always alternate in the bass and play the B section as in the 1970 transcription.
Andrew Lardner
2020-10-10 13:55:02 +0000 UTCIt is very interesting to compare the 2 versions, and it raises a lot of questions. Are we assuming that the 2 transcribed versions represent a typical performance at each of these stages of his career? Are there enough recordings available to determine if the song 'evolved' over the years or if he just played it differently in these 2 specific recordings? If the song 'evolved' I'd imagine we'd see a cluster of performances similar to the 1964 version and then eventually another cluster of performances similar to the 1970 version. As for the differences: 1) 1964 alternating bass, particularly on the F chord in the 2nd section, is often 6-4-4-4 and in 1970 it is often 6-4-5-4. Was this change an intentional harmonic decision (a new preference for, allowing for the capo, Cs in the bass vs Fs) or did Doc just grip it and rip it, and at 280+ bpm, this is what came out this one time through? How much intentionality and control can we ascribe to Doc at 280+ bpm? To me, the fact that he is inconsistent in both versions, that he doesn't stick to just 6-4-4-4 or 6-4-5-4 in either one, implies that these aren't compositional choices, that there are limits to his control at that speed. (Granted: perhaps this is because I can't fathom personally having that precise control at that speed I'm projecting it onto him, one of the greatest players ever - and I shouldn't do that because I can't even comprehend his skills.) 2) 1964 3rd section, E roll starts on high E string but in 1970 the E roll starts on the B string. Did Doc make an intentional melodic decision here? On other versions did he consistently stick to one approach or the other, or did he randomly swap out either approach? Like the questions around the changes in alternating bass, this raises questions about compositional intent vs jamming in the moment. This change seems like it would be more intentional than some randomness to the alternating bass notes, since it is a melodic change. All of that leads, for me at least, to the question of "what version do I want to learn to play?" If there is no objective, definitive, ideal version of the song, only particular, specific, one-off variations - what should I spend my limited guitar playing time on learning? While this may sound blasphemous, my personal solution was to print out both versions and literally cut out parts from each of the 2 versions and tape together a version with all of my favorite parts and none of the annoying (to me) parts. I hope I don't get banned from the group. :) On this song, at least, my goal is to learn a "reasonably" faithful version of Doc's Guitar. On other songs, when the artist is more consistent, I see more value in stricter adherence to the original.
John Good
2020-10-10 13:02:31 +0000 UTC
