Post-LA
Added 2024-04-22 20:02:03 +0000 UTCGang back
Comments
oof https://twitter.com/CaitlinPacific/status/1790568806647292383
Norman X. Picklestein
2024-05-18 09:38:09 +0000 UTCPrivileged students at elite universities aren't "oppressed." One of the ringleaders of the Columbia protest literally killed an elderly couple while recklessly driving and got off with a $200 fine because she's rich.
TC
2024-04-25 21:20:27 +0000 UTCI appreciate that clarification. That’s reassuring. Sorry to pop into the chat just to gripe, but Flanagan’s online persona includes a deep-seated hatred for the oppressed (and their leftist defenders) that manifests in outrageous posts that unfortunately succeed in upsetting me, and a big part of the reason it succeeds is that you speak so well of her. It helps me to know that you didn’t know that about her (at least not all of it) and it wasn’t an intentional meeting.
Keith Wilson
2024-04-25 14:13:28 +0000 UTCdamn Liz, that's a lot of friends. Maybe that's why you're getting so much hate. They're jealous of your extensive rolodex
madeline krane
2024-04-25 10:50:11 +0000 UTC>mystical christian man who's kind of transcended politics This is what I aspire to be, maybe one day 🤞
TC
2024-04-25 05:52:50 +0000 UTCMy friends include: liberal guy who worked in obama administration avowed centrist guy who is an economist liberal minded but apolitical woman the most pious catholic i've ever known (woman) leftist jewish woman involved in the pro-palestine protest at columbia completely apolitical woman hardcore leftist man hardcore leftist woman conservative professor woman leftist writer woman eccentric conservative professor woman liberal professor man (wrote a book on how good civil debate is) liberal lawyer man who really doesn't pay attention to politics eccentric socialist civil libertarian man socialist writer man major the west wing liberal lawyer woman licentious doctor man who happens to hate capital punishment mystical christian man who's kind of transcended politics conservative writer man liberal protestant autist man liberal phlebotomist woman leftist capital defense attorney woman liberal video journalist woman conservative writer woman liberal jazz enthusiast editor man disgraced liberal writer man hardcore christian guy on death row (politics unknown) easygoing southern dude on death row (now dead) (politics unknown) southern anarchist photographer man seemingly apolitical movie critic man extremely devout monarchist dominican priest unimaginably sweet and politically enigmatic editor woman What I mean to demonstrate here is that it isn't the case that I'm just combing the world for fun and personable reactionaries. The reality is that almost all of my friends disagree with me politically (there just aren't that many Christian socialists.) I'm willing to give anyone a chance because of what's happened to me. That results in a wide variety of friends. I'm possibly wrong in this and should perhaps only be friends with Christian socialists who share my views on life. But I'm doing my best to treat people the way I want to be treated.
The Bruenigs
2024-04-25 04:44:37 +0000 UTCI attract a lot of people who see me as an ally: leftists and reactionaries, liberals and Catholics. (Last weekend, for example, we hung out with Doug Henwood and Liza Featherstone, hard leftists.) I think you notice the right wingers because that's the only group you openly disapprove of. I agree I'm not the world's best Christian, but I am trying. I'm hurt very much when I have bad interactions with people who won't give me a chance because I'm cancelled on twitter. (One of my coworkers will not even speak to me because of it.) Therefore I don't want to inflict this on someone else. If a person is showing me kindness, I'm not stopping them like a border guard to make them declare all their problematic views so I can decide whether they meet my threshold for friendship. Me having dinner with Caitlin didn't cause her to tweet the stuff she has; she would have a twitter account anyway, and would be using it as usual. Nobody was laughing at you. We talked about our kids.
The Bruenigs
2024-04-25 03:10:44 +0000 UTCHa, I mean, I met her at dinner at someone else's house a single time. I wouldn't say we hang out. We didn't invite her, the person who hosted us did. We didn't discuss Israel; I'm not on twitter, so I didn't realize it was an issue she even had opinions on.
The Bruenigs
2024-04-25 02:57:48 +0000 UTCFlanagan has just tweeted "I would rather - by an order of magnitude - spend time with these cops than with the kids in that protest" and it's making me reflect on what it means that the Bruenigs are among those who she actually hangs our with. Why would she want to hang out with the Bruenigs if she can't stand people who make themselves a problem for those committing genocide?
Keith Wilson
2024-04-24 22:06:11 +0000 UTCThe last thing I will say is this: I get that as a journalist you are going to hang out with fellow journalists, as that is your social world and some of them may even be your co-workers. But from my perspective, as someone who doesn’t live in that world, you are up there hanging out with people who choose to use their public platform to spew poison into the world, and that poison is trickling down on us below. And if you are up there laughing it up with them, I may start to question whether in the fight for justice you truly are on my side.
Otto Laakso
2024-04-24 20:22:39 +0000 UTCCaitlin Flanagan is a public figure with influence. That's what makes her different from a death row inmate, who is powerless. Then again this whole Golden Rule-angle is a ruse, obviously you don’t hang out with her out of the goodness of your heart, but because you enjoy her company (and probably agree with her on most things, let’s be honest). It's also obvious that you attract reactionaries who consider you an ally, and you reciprocate. And I don't think that's because you are just such a good Christian. Am I wrong here? I listen because I like the podcast, and I like you. I’m not trying to cancel you. I think you can have occasional criticisms of someone, and still like them. Good and bad in everyone, right?
Otto Laakso
2024-04-24 19:46:40 +0000 UTCI don't think so, though I do wonder why you even listen to this podcast at this point. I am nice to people who have literally murdered people—much worse than anything, say, Caitlin Flanagan or my dad have ever done. I don't see what me being mean to people who've done wrong is going to help; it's not like it changes their views or behavior. And I've done wrong too. I don't know what to tell you, this is just a Christianity thing.
The Bruenigs
2024-04-24 17:40:16 +0000 UTCThis was my thought too. Eastern Christian communities are only Christians to evangelicals when it suits their political aims. Wish more American Roman Catholics would consider that when choosing their political bedfellows.
KMB24
2024-04-24 15:06:05 +0000 UTCLeaving aside this specific case, if someone is vile towards entire groups of people but they are nice to you personally, is it really a virtuous to be nice to them? Doesn't that just mean you are self-centered?
Otto Laakso
2024-04-24 09:19:50 +0000 UTCTBH, I find her shtick of snark and derision towards people who are reviled by Israel's wholesale slaughter of a population to be nauseating. Don't really care if she's funny/friendly personally or not, she loves to show everyone how above it she is in her public persona.
Christian Hunt
2024-04-24 00:06:49 +0000 UTCI think its hard to say at this point what they'll be able to do.
Ligma
2024-04-23 23:29:46 +0000 UTCShe's also a founding member of the Atlantic union, won't cross picket lines, opposes the death penalty, and is very funny. There's good and bad in everyone. Friendship is not an endorsement of every thought someone has.
The Bruenigs
2024-04-23 23:17:04 +0000 UTCI mean most of the left would say palling around with /me/ is palling around with fascists. I appreciate it when people don't let their opinions about my values affect their kindness to me as a person, so I do the same thing for others. Very simple do-unto-others principle here.
The Bruenigs
2024-04-23 23:14:22 +0000 UTCDo you think democrats would ever allow anyone serious on the left to actually be the party's standard bearer?
Christian Hunt
2024-04-23 21:29:02 +0000 UTCit's so funny how these free speech on college campus frauds are losing their minds over a protest against Israel. Incredible stuff, serious loser shit.
Christian Hunt
2024-04-23 21:27:35 +0000 UTCLiz loves to pal around with fascists
Otto Laakso
2024-04-23 21:09:48 +0000 UTCEr, this Caitlin Flanagan? https://twitter.com/CaitlinPacific/status/1782862405304983838
Norman X. Picklestein
2024-04-23 20:54:06 +0000 UTCSeeing you encourage Matt to take his hoodie off was honestly kind of sweet and endearing - it was clear you admire Matt and really want others to admire him too! Very wholesome behavior imo.
Marla M
2024-04-23 20:26:35 +0000 UTCMatt, with the weights from Llamma or mistral, you could create your own LLM and fine tune it on your specific database you’re building, though after the investment in hardware and your increase in electricity prices you might end up being better off just using Claud, but I’m not sure about the legal stuff involved in selling a tool that uses Claude…
David Wych
2024-04-23 19:42:29 +0000 UTC🤐
TC
2024-04-23 19:10:54 +0000 UTCIt's not what goes into your mouth that makes you unclean.
The Bruenigs
2024-04-23 18:57:54 +0000 UTCNever seen this happen with mushrooms. LSD though, yeah, you gotta tread real lightly
David Wych
2024-04-23 18:47:46 +0000 UTCWhy do you think ritual human sacrifice was so common in some pagan societies? Because they were all under the influence of Satan and his minions due to their heavy psychedelic use.
TC
2024-04-23 18:44:39 +0000 UTCWrong and wrong. Guard your soul.
TC
2024-04-23 18:35:07 +0000 UTCIt can't be, because demonic possession isn't real and neither are demons
Sam Harrison
2024-04-23 18:33:28 +0000 UTCPutting the reasons for Tucker’s argument aside, I think what people do not seem to understand is that while the number of Christians that have been killed in Gaza is low, comparatively to the Christian population that exists there it’s massive. I want to say the community there is in the hundreds. The Christian community in Gaza is, if not the oldest Christian community ever, one of the oldest. As a Greek Orthodox Christian I am happy to have anyone point out specifically that Christians are being murdered in Gaza, along with everyone else who is being murdered there. But unfortunately many evangelicals do not believe we are Christians at all so don’t care and I think Tucker will figure that one out fast.
Katherine
2024-04-23 16:00:32 +0000 UTCThey're calling it the "Hard R Bar"
Stinky Pete
2024-04-23 15:26:46 +0000 UTCNot really. Psychedelics opening pathways in your mind for demonic possession is a real phenomenon.
TC
2024-04-23 14:48:32 +0000 UTCShe always kills it on Bill Maher. Very witty!
TC
2024-04-23 14:47:42 +0000 UTCAs a matter of policy, Liz only makes friends with people who will not suffer any discomfort denouncing her. Respect!
AllOutOfPlans
2024-04-23 14:43:07 +0000 UTCI think living under capitalism "very easily leads" to the same, so not that different.
AllOutOfPlans
2024-04-23 14:39:42 +0000 UTCnot racist R bar, 5 min from my house, missed the hang, only myself to blame. come back one day please <33
Lili Mandl
2024-04-23 14:25:51 +0000 UTCVery much seconded!
Richard
2024-04-23 13:42:59 +0000 UTCand one in barbie font for the girls and gays please
a.j. archer
2024-04-23 13:27:14 +0000 UTCcaitlin flanagan rules she's frankly the other 50% of my reasons to pay for the atlantic
a.j. archer
2024-04-23 13:26:48 +0000 UTCI know nobody wants to hear it, but *please* be careful with psychedelics, that shit very easily leads to demonic influence or possession.
TC
2024-04-23 12:36:21 +0000 UTCPlease start selling a “That’s a ULP!” t-shirt.
andrew
2024-04-23 10:00:22 +0000 UTCWe should all be proud to show our names and faces around here but I guess we’re not ready for that conversation
Michael Hoogenakker
2024-04-23 06:25:55 +0000 UTCI wonder how much a Deputy Exeutive Director for Strategy and Culture gets paid. Also on that topic, I liked this convocation speech from Spelman, 10:42 on is the relevant bit: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/54zjidqzwxtj6b258nizj/Spelman-Convocation-2024.mp4?rlkey=uvhkixt2vt3pkhkkkud4her5q&e=1&dl=0
Femi Agbabiaka
2024-04-23 03:58:07 +0000 UTCGaza has already been razed. That aid Biden was trying so hard to send was dropped on the heads of the recipients. The last enclave is about to be invaded. This all happened under Biden. The reality is that very little will change with a Republican or Democrat in power.
Femi Agbabiaka
2024-04-23 03:56:17 +0000 UTCWhat's your take on the Google firings? I saw your post but it's since come out that workers were fired for merely stopping and talking with their coworkers who were participating in the protest. The argument that they should be able to contest how the products they build are used is more convincing to me given that in the case of Israel there's not much question of how it's being used or what it's supporting. In some expressions it sounds like these workers are basically demanding that Google enforce its own terms of service policies against its tools being used for violence. I would think that there is a fairly direct case to be made that by supplying Israel with cloud infrastructure that its military uses to commit a genocide the workers themselves are made or at least feel complicit in that violence. Especially so for workers who have family members who have been murdered in Gaza.
Bernie Mac
2024-04-23 01:33:04 +0000 UTCDo you think there's any chance of Shawn Fein running for president? The Democrats have literally no one on the bench at this point. Now that Bernie is too old, could we have a union leader become the standard bearer of the left in this country?
Ligma
2024-04-23 00:45:29 +0000 UTCTrump was president already and gave Israel everything they wanted. It’s actually not hard to imagine something worse, Biden is trying to get aid in and condemning the very worst abuses. Republicans are calling for razing Gaza, that’s worse. I wish Biden were better but it’s a failure of imagination if you think there’s no such thing as worse. And look at Netanyahu, he clearly wants a Republican back in the WH, why is that?
Gabe Stanton
2024-04-22 23:59:03 +0000 UTCdirty 30's
Sarah
2024-04-22 23:50:51 +0000 UTCLuther mentioned! I think the 28 theses of Luther's Heidelberg Disputation (with their accompanying proofs) are a more significant statement of reformer args than the 95. And the gold in Heidelberg comes at the end, with thesis 25: “One is not righteous who does much, but the one who, without work, believes much in Christ." Thesis 26: “The law says, “Do this,” and it is never done. Grace says, “Believe in this,” and everything is already done.” And thesis 28: "The love of God does not find, but creates, that which is pleasing to it.”
Jack Brownfield
2024-04-22 23:19:52 +0000 UTCwhy does my life keep getting sillier
The Bruenigs
2024-04-22 23:09:54 +0000 UTCWell first off it's kinda hard to imagine what would be worse than an ongoing campaign of extermination, actively assisted by the U.S./NATO, that has annihilated nearly all civil infrastructure (schools, hospitals, churches/mosques, farms, water treatment etc.) and which has induced an artificial famine whose toll in death and long-lasting misery is currently incalculable. Like, I suppose you could claim that Trump in this situation would have enabled the Israelis to kill even more people, but it's hard to see any kind of U.S.-influenced restraint being practiced right now, so I'm not sure that's plausible. In addition, Biden has ideological commitments, like his sincere and ardent Zionism, that Trump simply doesn't. It's not out of the question that popularity-obsessed and instinctively isolationist Trump might have started backing away when the Biden admin was doubling down. Add to that the fact that most of the psycho cold warriors from his first admin have burned Trump (Bolton, Abrams, etc) and at the very least it seems unlikely that Trump would be *worse*.
Ian H
2024-04-22 23:07:27 +0000 UTCYeah, if Trump or Carlson are able to trick more right wingers into anti-internvionism through either ambiguity or opportunism, more power to them I guess, but I really don't think they should be taken at face value or given any benefit of the doubt
Josh B
2024-04-22 22:38:45 +0000 UTCNow I'm curious about how you both would rank your favorite Taylor Swift albums/songs. Return of the Brusic segment?
Josh B
2024-04-22 22:36:36 +0000 UTCLove the pod but why do you keep doing this “no reason to think Trump would be worse on Israel” bit? They named settlements after the guy lol. He did everything Bibi wanted. When people say he wouldn’t let himself get embarrassed it’s true but that’s because he would just say “yes” to everything
Gabe Stanton
2024-04-22 22:04:09 +0000 UTCAs an irish person I feel compelled to correct the record that it's not this war against palestine that 'lost' us. Ireland has been pro palestinan self determination since the foundation of Israel and the expansionist border policy that was apparent from the off, before being driven home by the Nakba. Big PLO vibes here in the 90s when I was a small kid, and always palestinan flags visible in public sphere.
Chiara Rohz
2024-04-22 21:30:30 +0000 UTCtoddler in the backseat clapping along with the shawn fain audio. based
Sarah
2024-04-22 21:13:58 +0000 UTCI’m part of chicago teachers union and we are negotiating a new contact right now and there’s been word in some of our meetings that a bunch of major unions including UAW are going to time to their contracts to all expire at the same time, May 1.
Jack Murphy
2024-04-22 20:51:40 +0000 UTCliz tipsy off one negroni trying to get matt to show tit…evocative imagery
Sarah
2024-04-22 20:23:37 +0000 UTCyay!
AR
2024-04-22 20:07:22 +0000 UTC
