The US Bureau of Cancellation
Added 2023-11-20 02:06:44 +0000 UTCgang back
Comments
His emphasis on usury actually isn’t that unusual- usury is one of the major sins in Islam
f.
2023-12-02 17:48:17 +0000 UTCOn the ‘manners’ translation question- most probably a translation of the word “ ‘adab” which in this context probably is hitting on its connotations of morals/ being humane
f.
2023-12-02 17:47:16 +0000 UTCFeel like it’s a bit odd to equate ‘converting to Islam’ to ‘agreeing with the entirety of Bin Laden’s letter’, considering that he’s a trust fund baby who mass murdered Muslims as well as non-Muslims at 22:16- this may be me uncharitably and defensively listening to the letter bit of the episode as an American Muslim- if so, apologies
f.
2023-12-02 16:03:23 +0000 UTCImagining telling my boss I won’t be in the same meeting with Carol because she’s a republican and getting to keep my job lol. Sorry that happened Liz. That sucks.
KMB24
2023-11-30 23:50:31 +0000 UTCI learned a lot from this episode. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your Thanksgiving weekend🦃
Gina Burton
2023-11-25 13:28:52 +0000 UTCRichard, according to elite theory there are two types of of elite: The Governing Elite and the Non-Governing Elite. The Governing Elite would be the likes of high rank government officials, military generals and politicians. The Non-Governing Elite are typically made up of intellectuals, journalists, artists and scientists. To be specific, examples of non-governing elite outfits today would be the media(The Atlantic, WaPo but especially the NYT which is a quasi state institution) and academia(Harvard/ Yale but mostly Harvard) Both sets of elites can be in harmony or at each others throat. An instance of harmony would be during the Cold War when the CIA(Governing Elite) were secretly funding journalists, artists and intellectuals(Non-Governing Elite) for a "Propaganda Programme" with the aim of "Cultural Subversion" against the Soviet Union, but this was disguised as "Philanthropy". For more on that, there's Saunders's Who Paid The Piper? and Scott-Smith's Culture and the Global Cold war, but for a primer on Italian Elite Theory there's former Trotskyist James Burnham's The Machiavellians (Its very blackpill on things like "Power of the People", "Democracy", "Voice of the People", "The Few against The Many").
Azmarino
2023-11-24 13:19:16 +0000 UTCFair
Karim
2023-11-24 05:32:29 +0000 UTCIsn't a staff writer at the Atlantic, educated at Brandeis and Cambridge, ipso facto part of the elite?
Richard
2023-11-22 20:16:30 +0000 UTCTotally agree. I think good vibes is the only rational reason to vote, since the chance that any one vote will affect the outcome is so small that it approaches the vanishing point.
Guy Giberson
2023-11-22 19:30:31 +0000 UTCReally liked this ep. Reminded me that I need to tell you guys that I am thankful for you and your pod. It is the hour of every week that I feel the MOST not alone.
Guy Giberson
2023-11-22 19:26:09 +0000 UTCThats a lot of words and needn’t have been in the passive voice. I recommend: “Matt, please stop interrupting Liz.”
Guy Giberson
2023-11-22 19:17:51 +0000 UTCHello Bryan
Ivan McGillicuddy
2023-11-22 16:32:17 +0000 UTCI think people are misunderstanding some basic arguments here (nothing to do with left or right, for example see Ireland's response to the war on Gaza from all sides of the political spectrum). Lots of people argued that the expansion of settlements and the occupation of Gaza (under the UN definition of occupation) cannot last forever, and eventually these conflicts are going to spill out, because historically these conditions lead to violence. One way to avoid such conflicts is to pressure some move towards peace between the two states (another example, the good friday agreement). When people turn around and say "Historically conditions like these and inaction from wider institutions tend to move into conflict" they are not gloating but pointing to a historical fact. Easy mistake to make.
Ivan McGillicuddy
2023-11-22 16:27:45 +0000 UTCHow is it not
Ben
2023-11-22 06:14:30 +0000 UTCNo judgement, but it felt good to vote for Bernie.
Ben
2023-11-22 05:28:42 +0000 UTCding ding ding
Christian Hunt
2023-11-22 05:14:57 +0000 UTCI had no idea who she was and just looked her up. What a nutcase
Caitlin Still
2023-11-22 02:18:48 +0000 UTCWe have not had our fill of the Nascar crash guy!
TCE
2023-11-21 22:56:19 +0000 UTCI haven’t quite tread the path of my older Brother who in response to the current political moment has gone full blown reactionary. But, i confess, feeling some attraction recently to just some of the political figures he’s mentioned to me, Lee kuan yew and Nayib Bukele just to name a few from the myriad he’s mentioned to me. At the very least with these men I’ve just mentioned, no one could deny their societies were significantly changed once they entered office. Whereas, in my own lifetime I have seen nothing really change and so in common chorus with my fellow zoomers (I’m 24) have often sighed:”Nothing ever happens😔” (You might have seen the political meme online) Alas! This has been far too long a reply. Again, Mrs Bruenig, I was rude to you and if I’ve caused offence then I sincerely apologise. I admire you and consider you my moral superior from whom i tend to seek a redoubt from uninteresting commentators and place for something like moral tutelage.
Azmarino
2023-11-21 19:34:21 +0000 UTCSome time has passed since I posted my comment and upon reflection, I want nothing more than to apologise to you Mrs Bruenig because I was really rather cuntish towards you. You might consider this a strange sexism I’ve inherited from my parents’s African culture, but I feel especially remorseful because I was rude to a woman. I was raised in no uncertain terms to never be the cause of a woman’s tears (men are fair game👍), not to imply I caused you to tear up because I know your immeasurably tougher than me; You’ve given birth to children and I refused to enter my garden this morning because the skin of a particular leaf triggered my trypophobia. Informed by Italian elite theory, my basic point was (admittedly, very harshly and crudely put) contra “the people’s will” elites always decide the course of society whether they are: a monarchy, a democracy or an oligarchy. The early Christians argued against and deplored paedophilia, but this achieved precisely nothing until emperor Constantine converted and made the top down change of outlawing pederasty. At the very real risk of getting too personal, I should try to explain (not justify!) why I was so dickish to you in my last comment. A couple weeks ago, quite late in the evening, my cousin was taken away from her home and mother. It happened suddenly and without warning. For the crime of not “affirming” her new “gender identity”, my aunt had her daughter whisked away from her and has been without contact for about a month now. As you can imagine, she is devastated and normal life has pretty much ceased. At my mother’s insistence- i suspect this is because she’s petrified her little sister will harm herself and so is desperate to keep an eye on her- my aunt has come to live with us and has been doing so for some time now. I leave home to her crying and come home to her crying. What am I to say to her? “Auntie it’s okay u’ll get your only child back! You just need to form a fine tuned arg for why essentialism is true and why nominalism isn’t so here read David Oderberg’s real essentialism”. Whether my views on this particular issue corresponds to reality or not, whether I am right or not, I can do nothing at all because I’m powerless. She’s going up against a billion dollar industry that would like her daughter, my cousin, to have permanent and life altering surgery and I work fucking part time. Whilst I was listening to your recent pod, I heard my aunt scream into the phone: “Abuse?! I fed her at my breast I love her!” This happened shortly b4 u mentioned debating right wingers and the importance of debate and it triggered me. I’ve always deplored people who let themselves lash out at someone because of something unrelated to them. And yet, I’ve done it to you and I’m especially disgusted for it because you’ve been through so much of that shit online. I’m really very sorry Mrs Bruenig that was some low, demeaning shit on my part. I daresay, this might confirm why I will always need to be a catholic and always need a lord and saviour. I suppose there is some pleasure in disputation and I was a bit of a boar for not seeing that. I shouldn’t like to think I’m listening to the wrong podcast, I mean I’m paying to hear you discourse on topics and am ordering your book on the death penalty because I value your voice so highly. Happily, I care nothing for a “Mishima appreciation” ep but i have been vainly wondering if you’d ever post a solo ep reflecting on the Christian mystic tradition which I think you once mentioned. Gregory of Nyssa’s Life of Moses came to my attention when you mentioned him during your “In praise of shadows” lecture at Yale which I’ve listened to like a dozen times. It’s funny you mentioned Mishima because what little fascination he had roused in me has been merely aesthetic, meaning I’ve seen him with a cool sword and I think there’s a funny dissonance in the most radical right wing points being delivered by the most twink looking motherfucker I’ve ever seen. (You wouldn’t believe how easy it is to entertain a young male🤷♂️)
Azmarino
2023-11-21 19:32:57 +0000 UTCOrthogonally, you guys should do a Mishima movie review ep! Idk if you've ever brought it up, but I feel like you'd vibe and have a lot to say (both critically and in praise) of Paul Schrader's work
TC
2023-11-21 13:47:38 +0000 UTCI feel like all what Pamela Paresky and her partygoers actually want is to be able to say racist things without any consequences again.
Tim Masterson
2023-11-21 06:18:58 +0000 UTCI would like Liz to be able to finish a thought without being interrupted.
Karim
2023-11-21 05:49:02 +0000 UTCDoes Liz not vote? Based me neither
Bernie Mac
2023-11-21 00:36:49 +0000 UTCi can assure you the last thing i felt at libertycon was a sense of importance lol. i don't know how you read this critique you have into my jag about never voting, but if you think i feel like i'm an influential person with lots of power, you've got me exactly backward. i debate because it's fun--same reason i've done it since high school--not because i'm under the mistaken impression it's going to turn things around. it's also worthwhile to know the truth, which debate enables and promotes, even if knowing the truth doesn't affect anything. i also just sort of think you're listening to the wrong podcast? if you're waiting for the mishima appreciation ep you're gonna be waiting a long time
The Bruenigs
2023-11-20 23:24:03 +0000 UTCwhere did Bin Laden stand on monopolies?
Christian Hunt
2023-11-20 22:10:13 +0000 UTCI mean, there are certainly significant unanswered questions about exactly what happened on Oct. 7 that are relevant to how easily justifiable it is. But even if you accept the US/Israeli narrative, I would say that almost everyone of almost every political persuasion has "acts of hatred and slaughter" that they think are justified. The overwhelming majority of Americans would agree that slave revolts, and the mass bloodshed of the US civil war were justified by the far greater evil of chattel slavery, even though many non-combatants suffered and died. Israeli officials right now are referencing events like the firebombing of Dresden, which specifically targeted that city's civilian population, as a historical justification for their actions against the civilians of Gaza.
Ian H
2023-11-20 20:13:44 +0000 UTCIf only Bin Laden had hung out with Stephanie Kelton
Justin Hubbard
2023-11-20 18:59:17 +0000 UTCEnglish is not my first language
Dom Weisz
2023-11-20 18:55:22 +0000 UTCElizabeth, you are labouring under a serious illusion so-called liberal democracies (imagine supporting liberal democracy FUCKING GAY!) like to induce in people, a couple times now in these recent pods you’ve mentioned “what normal people think” as though it matters. Your point at the end regarding debate about the merits of the Iraq war being “most critical” (implying that the outcome of a debate would’ve had an effect) during the war gets it EXACTLY wrong, that’s when your opinion mattered least. Yours and any other non elite American’s opinion about the legitimacy of the war NEVER mattered and this was confirmed for you the moment American boots hit Iraqi soil. Like so many leftists-with their maudlin and effete desire for equality- you have assumed your ideal into the nature of things. In this case, the equal weight of citizenry opinion, but every war since WW2 has occurred in happy defiance against the holy verdict of public opinion. The opinion of one man in the US state department matters more than one Atlantic staff writer and a million shopkeepers combined; there is an aristocracy to opining as there is in ALL THINGS. Thinking themselves little kings and queens, people hold these fake debates which seduces them by making them feel important and so are tricked into thinking their opinions matter….How an “opinion writer” hasn’t seen this… I mean hows all that opining about a Christian welfare state been working out for you? How did that Caplan debate work out for you? Has America turned in a more socialistic direction? Nope! But I bet you felt REALLY important on that stage with all that thumos coursing through you…ughh 🤤🤤🥵🥵(Please keep all this in mind when China😘Taiwan and the US gets involved, your opinion means fuck all)
Azmarino
2023-11-20 18:37:37 +0000 UTCOne tiny thing: when obl mentions Jewish aggression in Lebanon, (and Liz says they must mean Israel), I’m pretty sure the reference is to the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon and the resulting massacre at sabra and shatila. Enjoying the ep so far though!
Soroush Khanlou
2023-11-20 18:33:45 +0000 UTCwhole episode was 🔥🔥🔥 y’all have really been snapping in the booth lately can’t believe you hit em with the Bin Laden-Mosler counterfactual. 👀 that’s v experimental. nearly drove off the road. 🚧 thanks for the content. keep cookin!
M
2023-11-20 18:29:16 +0000 UTCIt has been rather comical to watch all the 'free speech on college campus' types meltdown over the supposed right they claim to defend. Not surprising, but humourous to watch them panic and go beserk.
Christian Hunt
2023-11-20 18:08:56 +0000 UTCto be clear, i'm not on social media, so i'm not encountering all the 'oct 7 was actually good' takes, which is why i haven't felt compelled to say 'oct 7 was unjustifiable slaughter.' my understanding is that the majority of the people killed on oct 7 were not legitimate targets (soldiers) and i don't think i've given the impression i in any sense approve of their having been murdered. i don't.
The Bruenigs
2023-11-20 18:08:16 +0000 UTCThis isn't coherent, try editing before hitting post.
Christian Hunt
2023-11-20 18:07:03 +0000 UTCQuestion for Liz: what do you make of the moral dimension of what is currently happening on the left: the contextualization of oct. 7 (or 9/11 for that matter) ie. occupation, siege, 100 years of conflict etc. is in my mind a value neutral descriptive argument of CAUSALITY. But so many leftists are making a leap into an argument of JUSTIFICATION, meaning that its not enough to explain the possible roots of hatred and slaughter, but that hatred and slaughter are therefore ipso facto morally just and righteous. I think that leap is a huge intellectual failure at best and an intentional crime of opportunity at worst, ie. leftists sublimating their hatred of white people and imperialist capitalists (jews) into palestine "activism". If you can justify slaughter like this with "root causes" you can justify all sorts of horrendous violence in society based on any subjectively felt grievances. I hoped that Liz with her background in ethics and her supposed activism against death would bring some nuance to an otherwise antisocial bloodthirsty left. But i was wrong.
Dom Weisz
2023-11-20 17:55:42 +0000 UTCwas it nancy rommelman’s crew
Katherine
2023-11-20 17:52:43 +0000 UTCre matt’s non-combatants in liberal society thing: what about kids who can’t vote or really participate in political life much at all? also foreigners, some of whom come from countries that are not democratic or whose governments oppose their host countries's actions
mchanson
2023-11-20 17:28:59 +0000 UTCGotta clip Matt saying "in the name of Allah the most merciful" really fast as a sound fx
William Kay
2023-11-20 15:25:30 +0000 UTCi mean i have actual work colleagues who won't even be in the same slack channel as me because my reputation is so bad. to me that kind of thing seems to be in the zone of cancellation, even though it isn't dismissal from the institution. being a villain figure to a chunk of the discourse seems like it should count, though there are certainly degrees of cancellation.
The Bruenigs
2023-11-20 15:19:24 +0000 UTCHow are you cancelled? Were you fired from WaPo or NYT for your views? Were you kicked off Twitter? As far as I know you weren't.
Otto Laakso
2023-11-20 15:03:14 +0000 UTCHoney comb hideout 😘 https://youtu.be/qRPcmg5mqoA?si=kOG4XsmkztuOqzHM
Caryn Brooks
2023-11-20 14:38:18 +0000 UTCi'm cancelled (over abortion) so it made sense to me!
The Bruenigs
2023-11-20 14:34:12 +0000 UTCFunny to imagine the tik tok videos are zoomers reacting solely to the part of the OBL letter about the Clinton scandal
LP3
2023-11-20 14:05:00 +0000 UTCPamela Paresky, probably.
Otto Laakso
2023-11-20 11:00:20 +0000 UTCLiz's cancelled club story is delicious, but it was always clear to those who didn't play footsie with the anti-woke crowd (like Liz did) that these people were never serious about freedom of speech. Perhaps it should give Liz pause that she was asked to join in the first place?
Otto Laakso
2023-11-20 10:48:09 +0000 UTCI constantly forget that the US has non-compulsory voting and it feels like news to me every time.
Caitlin Still
2023-11-20 09:09:45 +0000 UTCIf you do make a new socialism series ep, could you please finish Marx? Marxism is a three legged stool of English political economy, French socialism and German philosophy. You covered the first two but not much of the third. I would humbly recommend the German ideology. (Hegel was a massive influence but didnt get much of a shout out)
Payton McDermott
2023-11-20 04:08:04 +0000 UTC👀
TC
2023-11-20 04:04:13 +0000 UTCI get why people have this viewpoint, but I disagree and I think it's obsolete in the contemporary media landscape. Twitter/X is where the highest levels of discourse in our liberal democracy (yes, we all agree it's a burden and should be consigned to the dustbin of history) that allow democratic participation take place. Quality>quantity. Normies aren't on twitter en masse, but normies aren't driving history. I'd go so far as to contend that if you aren't on twitter or aren't being discussed on twitter (unless you're an actual mover and shaker with capital or have their ear in private) you functionally don't exist in the discourse. Ever will it be thus on a free and open internet. If twitter goes, some over central node will take its place.
TC
2023-11-20 04:03:51 +0000 UTCnot Bari!
The Bruenigs
2023-11-20 03:57:27 +0000 UTCif you get off twitter the only thing that changes is you have a less distorted view of what normal people actually think, i promise. twitter is just a microblogging app with a relatively small user base and an even smaller number of power users who all echo each other. if you read people who actually know what they're talking about, it's a radically different picture.
The Bruenigs
2023-11-20 03:57:02 +0000 UTCIt was Bari, wasn't it XD
TC
2023-11-20 03:50:21 +0000 UTCI know twitter is poison, but I must bear witness ;_;
TC
2023-11-20 03:35:27 +0000 UTCDrawing an equivalence between more sophisticated political commentators and a bunch of random normies jumping on a Tiktok trend in order to draw a larger conclusion that everyone supports HAMAS seems dumb. I think you should get off Twitter brother, I had to do the same as well, there's no shame.
Femi Agbabiaka
2023-11-20 03:31:18 +0000 UTCThe Guardian didn't put it behind a paywall, they just removed it. https://www.theguardian.com/info/2023/nov/15/removed-document
TC
2023-11-20 03:11:34 +0000 UTCI'm not on TikTok so I can't speak to the views of the OBL teens, but saying "yeah and because of all of this we now support Hamas" isn't the dominant view on the equivalent sphere on X right now is just wrong lol you got Chapo hosts posting Hamas fancams and getting ten thousand likes for crying out loud.
TC
2023-11-20 03:06:04 +0000 UTC
