Sacred Symbols, Episode 338 | Naughty Dog Derangement Syndrome
Added 2024-12-20 17:00:19 +0000 UTCThe holidays draw ever-nearer, making this our final recording of 2024. (Fear not, though: As tradition dictates, episodes will continue uninterrupted throughout the break, and indeed, everything is already in the can!) Not surprisingly, the news is a little light this time of year, though there are some interesting tidbits to pick up on. For starters, we take a look at two titles shown at The Game Awards that we skipped over last week, in the form of Crimson Desert and Midnight Murder Club, the latter a second party, Sony-published offering. We also delve into Mark Cerny's recent PS5 Pro technical presentation, wade through the (now rectified) drama surrounding Helldivers 2's exciting Killzone crossover, analyze whether the upcoming sci-fi RPG Exodus has the potential to be the true next Mass Effect, and more. But at the end of our show, we replace our typical six questions about random topics with six questions about something more than 50 of you wrote in about on the most recent thread. The topic at hand is obviously Intergalactic: The Heretic Prophet, Naughty Dog's upcoming PS5 exclusive. So many wrote in, in fact, that it felt disingenuous to ignore all of the noise. So instead, let's dive way deeper. What should PlayStation's next move be when it comes to rolling out this new product? Could the game flop on the market, either outright or by Naughty Dog's lofty standards? Do the masses suffer from some combination of Naughty Dog and Neil Druckmann Derangement Syndrome? And what does all of this insanity mean for The Last of Us: Part III... if anything at all?
Timestamps:
0:00:00 - Intro
0:20:37 - Tri Breaker is out now!
0:33:46 - What gives us the right?
0:36:50 - Changes for LSM in 2025
0:46:09 - Gooning over the landlady
0:54:01 - Jurassic: The Hunted
0:56:00 - Chis = Smeargle
1:01:47 - New Astro Bot level
1:06:54 - Game Awards clarifications
1:15:28 - new Mark Cerny ASMR video
1:20:12 - Helldivers 2 x Killzone is real
1:31:18 - Exodus could be the next Mass Effect?
1:40:09 - Secret Level renewed
1:46:05 - Please don't make FF7 NSFW mods
1:49:06 - More Tales of remasters are coming
1:52:33 - What We're Playing
2:09:50 - Sony has bought an additional 8% of Kadokawa
2:21:18 - Circana November data
2:30:44 - Will Intergalactic flop due to the early reaction?
2:40:36 - Naughty Dog derangement
2:55:24 - Neil Druckmann derangement
3:11:16 - What will Sony's strategy be around the game?
3:20:41 - PlayStation and female characters
3:27:16 - When will we get The Last of Us Part 3?
Comments
Exhibit B. Enjoy the new code of conduct
Steve
2024-12-30 09:07:20 +0000 UTCMaybe you guys are just insufferable and use your little leftist pet words like "incel" to pre-emptively shut down any criticism. Kindly gfy
Cole Kinghorn
2024-12-30 07:31:33 +0000 UTCJust willful stupidity, so tiring to engage with. He actually thought he said something.
Bailey Callis
2024-12-29 21:10:45 +0000 UTCThank you Bailey, this “you cant tell from a trailer” is such bs
Marco Maluf
2024-12-29 17:21:52 +0000 UTCIf you can't tell the direction a game is heading by watching a trailer, you my friend are in fact, a moron 🤡
Bailey Callis
2024-12-29 06:10:14 +0000 UTCNot a fan of the direction Naughtydog is taking? And what direction is that? Based on the trailer its next to impossible to know what the direction of their next game is (with the exception of some implied melee combat). That's literally it. So saying you're "not a fan of the direction they're taking" when we know literally next to nothing about the game is an inherently moronic thing to say. Now you can say it all you want, no ones gonna stop you. But it IS moronic
Luke Oliveto
2024-12-29 06:00:49 +0000 UTCIt’s kind of sad at this point.
Chris Van Buren
2024-12-28 22:03:47 +0000 UTCInstead of asking if it’s OK, ask why it’s happening.
Caz
2024-12-28 04:56:39 +0000 UTCTheotokos I’ve got bad news for you since you got so mas at the correct term used here…
Breno Bezerra Bluhm
2024-12-27 22:08:38 +0000 UTCAnd how is that working out for Disney?
WashedAF
2024-12-27 19:39:29 +0000 UTCSeason 7 and 8 of GOT were destroyed for dumbing characters down like Varys, Littlefinger, and Tyrion. It’s not about killing a character, but when you make them retarded, like TLOU2 did, people will call it out.
WashedAF
2024-12-27 19:38:37 +0000 UTCWell said
WashedAF
2024-12-27 19:34:41 +0000 UTCExhibit A
Steve
2024-12-27 19:30:10 +0000 UTCThis is so dishonest. Both parties have ruined the tax code.
WashedAF
2024-12-27 19:28:12 +0000 UTCYou probably complain about the word “woke” being overused, but then use incel 10x as much. Go back to your “community” on Resetera
WashedAF
2024-12-27 19:26:59 +0000 UTCFalse equivalency. White nationalists have never ran the game industry, but far left ideologues have absolutely captured the western studios, including Neil’s friend Anita.
WashedAF
2024-12-27 19:25:29 +0000 UTCShe's also blasting steroids lol.
Jordan Wray
2024-12-27 13:21:34 +0000 UTCAny one calling Intergalactic “woke” off of that trailer is a massive dork 😂😂😂
Draven E.
2024-12-27 05:32:48 +0000 UTClol
Johnny Lamotte
2024-12-26 22:59:54 +0000 UTCI wouldn't know whether it's good for business or not, but what Colin said about putting random episodes once in a while based on whims would definitely make great final products and I would happily listen!
Cornelius
2024-12-26 13:54:56 +0000 UTCSeeing the opening shots of the first new Naughty Dog IP in a decade being a buff woman shaving her head and then unironically being like, “Um why do people think this is woke??” Is crazyyyyy. Personally I feel the boys all DEFINITELY know how it is but really, really tamper their reactions down. It’s simply disingenuous to act like people are weird for reacting to Intergalactic this way especially after the TLOU2 backlash. To be clear: there’s nothing wrong with this creatively and in a vacuum I think it’s pretty cool but at a certain point it seems everyone else championing “how special it is seeing someone that looks like me” in games simply can’t not apply for the 80% of people who actually play them lol
Ryan
2024-12-26 13:53:18 +0000 UTCWish we could get more debate and counter views on sacred man. Hearing Jaffe argue with Colin is some of the best content on ss, and so refreshing.
Bailey Callis
2024-12-26 05:37:06 +0000 UTCI actually didn’t mind the length of the game too much. It became very meta to me, very grueling to get through. But maybe I just overthink things. I’ve been known to do so lol.
RFK Jr. streaming with an anime girl VTuber avatar and his voice pitched up but still wobbly
2024-12-26 04:02:36 +0000 UTCIt’s 100% a buzzword lmao. you’re just saying a buncha insulting reddit speak.
Theotokos Respecter
2024-12-26 03:10:43 +0000 UTCNot according to these three. It’s perfectly normal though. My gf plays the sims and most recently hellblade and horizon. She’s not out here playing as men based on personal preference.
Cole Barker
2024-12-26 00:54:48 +0000 UTCIs it possible some people that prefer to play as a man aren't sexist? And a lot of people that aren't interested in the direction Naughty dog are heading aren't angry babies?
Bailey Callis
2024-12-25 22:10:07 +0000 UTCTLOU2 is seriously a phenomenal game and I loved the non-Ellie sections more than ever. I don’t get how it’s so hard to let a story play out where no one is safe. As the game goes on, you really gain empathy for the “bad guys” and lose sympathy for those you loved.
NecrumOddBoy
2024-12-25 17:36:37 +0000 UTCIt’s just embarrassing lmao, feel like I’m in bizarro world for sure.
Zack E
2024-12-25 15:06:21 +0000 UTCYeah and I think some people get startled or shocked when they see that Colin and his views don’t fit neatly into a bucket.
Zack E
2024-12-25 15:04:42 +0000 UTCIt's not a buzzword. It is a perfect description for the kind of person who would look at totally normal women and then compain that they aren't hot enough for them to engage w/the product. That's just straight up virgin behaviour and no one (most anyway) chooses to be a virgin .
suk.meXe
2024-12-25 13:47:52 +0000 UTCIt’s the same mindset, just different arrangement of words in a sentence. “Online people” are annoying. It’s exhausting
Zack E
2024-12-25 13:11:44 +0000 UTCYeah a lot of the writing choices were pretty stupid! LOL
Seth
2024-12-25 05:15:02 +0000 UTCLMAO Idiocy
SL
2024-12-25 01:50:42 +0000 UTCit’s just a nothing word used to belittle and shutdown a conversation. Same as calling someone a racist or a sexist for any little thing. It shows you can’t actually engage with what’s being said.
Theotokos Respecter
2024-12-24 23:56:47 +0000 UTCI'm very glad I played TLOU2 on my own prior to reading or hearing anything, as I went on media blackout. I feel like people have such confirmation bias (unintentionally) that It's impossible to even see a consensus take for te game.
Ryan Hayman
2024-12-24 20:31:55 +0000 UTCI’m hoping the robot is not indicative of all the enemy types, that would be boring. I doubt they’ll restrict it like that.
TL
2024-12-24 16:34:27 +0000 UTCI love TLOU 1 & 2, they are my favorite games. Ellie’s sexuality as a creative choice in the day was executed well. Also, I am looking forward to Intergalactic as a day one buy, ND is amazing. The outside perspective I can see (not saying it’s a driving force for me) is how tentpole characters of Sony, Ellie and Aloy, are both lesbian. People are then assuming this character will be, which isn’t a safe assumption. Those who are preoccupied with anti woke are drawn to this type of shit like moths to a flame. The interesting point to me that may come out of this, is if the character in Intergalactic is lesbian. Why have arguably your three top Sony characters all lesbian? LGBTQ is far more than even just lesbian. Where is the gay male main character? Bisexual character? Sexuality shouldn’t even necessarily matter in a game, but Sony has entered this realm with their choices. Just food for thought. As stated, I look forward to playing Intergalactic 100%. ND makes my favorite types of games.
TL
2024-12-24 16:30:38 +0000 UTCSeeing Colin's letter promising increased moderation of fan discourse after glazing Naughty Dog for an hour is a hell of a one-two combo
Buster Crabcakes
2024-12-24 13:59:11 +0000 UTCJason, look up Colleen Fotsch. That’s the model Abby was based off of. Colleen is a professional CrossFit athlete, and is definitely that “yoked” in real life.
Chris Van Buren
2024-12-24 11:27:16 +0000 UTCYeah, about 15 years ago.
Chris Van Buren
2024-12-24 11:13:50 +0000 UTCEverything about this is correct.
Stevie Q
2024-12-24 08:48:35 +0000 UTCLOU2 would of been game of the year if there was an option immediately when you take control of Abby there was a button prompt for her to shoot herself in the head, the end credits roll, and a trophy pops up called "The Only Good Ending". Instead we got a 7/10.. Sad.
Seth
2024-12-24 05:58:17 +0000 UTCIt’s a horseshoe
Steve
2024-12-24 01:06:57 +0000 UTCBoth the 'woke' and 'anti-woke' crowds can be equally annoying. A few years ago, people claimed that having straight white male characters in games was some subconscious message of white supremacy or anti-LGBTQ bias, which I thought was ridiculous. Now, it's equally absurd to claim that having a person of color or a non-traditional female character is some 'woke' agenda. Both sides are overreacting—just play the games and decide if you like them!
Jonathan Turner
2024-12-24 00:50:08 +0000 UTCWarner Brothers said they took a $200 million dollar loss on Suicide Squad. I truly have no idea how Chris thinks that and Saints Row are good examples to throw out there. I say that as someone who enjoyed parts of Suicide Squad as well.
Joshua
2024-12-24 00:40:10 +0000 UTCI think a certain type saw Colin leaving Kinda Funny and being outwardly conservative as a rallying call for a certain kind of behavior. Now it’s more emboldened in the community due to recent events. If you (the royal you) get upset when you hear or see the word Incel…I’ve got bad news for you.
Steve
2024-12-23 23:39:33 +0000 UTCI'll love playing as an asian woman just like I loved playing as a fat guy in Dave the Diver. It's different. I'm getting bored out here gents
Gooch Gobbler
2024-12-23 23:30:35 +0000 UTCExactly, people thing good writing has to be pleasant and likable which couldn't be further from the truth. My favorite art makes me uncomfortable
Gooch Gobbler
2024-12-23 23:21:10 +0000 UTC.....I get it. Golf club mommy
Gooch Gobbler
2024-12-23 23:16:20 +0000 UTCof course, is that not what i’m saying? have there not been enough male white protagonists/characters in gaming or media in general?
peanutbutterloveer
2024-12-23 22:33:38 +0000 UTCRepresentation matters, isn't that what we've been told again and again?
Fotis Lyto
2024-12-23 22:27:36 +0000 UTCColin: where does this derangement come from? Also Colin: I’d like to welcome my friend stutteringcraig to the show to promote his DEI rage bait “real” game awards show
Ryan
2024-12-23 21:14:48 +0000 UTCMy Fiance said I was "gooning over the cat", she meant I was lording over the cat, like a goon but.....we had to have an uncomfortable conversation about her diction
Gooch Gobbler
2024-12-23 21:06:33 +0000 UTCSaints Row and Suicide Squad sold better than we think? Didn't the team behind Saints Row get shut down? I also keep reading articles about how bad Suicide Squad bombed.
Joseph Gedgaudas
2024-12-23 20:38:52 +0000 UTCI love hearing Colin complain about the IRS and say they should make filing taxes easier when it is the GOP and Grover Norquist who want to make completing your taxes as painful as possible
Ingberg
2024-12-23 20:35:08 +0000 UTCSee and that’s the thing, people reasonable and not attacking people breeds civil discussion. I also agree that some people are way off base with things, but I agree with a lot of what people on Twitter say about this stuff. I’ve even unfollowed some people that I agree with maybe like 70 percent of stuff because some of the things they were saying or going about it were so out there, I just couldn’t support them. BUT, I wouldn’t call for their opinions or speech to be eliminated or censored or start insulting them. There is a real discussion to be had about all of this stuff, hell, even though I don’t like some stuff I do think that it has its place to exist (depending on what it is, if it’s really out there). But calling people delusional when there are seriously delusional things that are being forced into gaming spheres is a change from how Last Stand usually would act. Unless some people in the comments were being beyond the pale. I truly don’t know since I usually don’t post very often. Might need to change that to bring forth actual discussion and camaraderie
PairOfShuse
2024-12-23 19:21:17 +0000 UTCThank you. I deleted a comment I wrote cause it was a little misguided, but this some it up greatly. This show has lost touch of reality lately. It’s sad they calling out everyone with opinions as delusional just because some people are loud on Twitter. I’m quiet but I agree with what some of the loud people say. I do agree they can be annoying and cringe but the OPINION is still true.
Johnny Lamotte
2024-12-23 19:10:57 +0000 UTCYou guys must—at some level—understand people's preference for aesthetics. It is not a coincidence that the majority of Hollywood actors are beautiful. It is not a coincidence that male and female leads are generally good-looking and gender-confirming. To think it wouldn't apply to games is naive. There are many legitimate critiques of Naughty Dog regarding its story, characters, pacing, etc. Just as there are many issues you (Colin) have with The Last Jedi that are not unfounded, similar issues can exist in games you love. Also, I implore you to stop looking or acknowledging the most bad faith takes out there. These takes typically lack nuance and represent a more collective frustration than a coherent point. Grumzz is a symptom, not a cure. He is echoing what some people are feeling and badly articulating these points for clout. One final note- please don't police arguments unless it's explicitly offensive. Part of the fun of game discussions is heated back and forth. It'd be disappointing if a monoculture of "best friends" (who coincidentally all repeat the same points) arose.
Dick Stillhard
2024-12-23 18:44:07 +0000 UTCAll I'll say about intergalactic is that people care about their appearances, and don't find masculine women attractive to play as. If you say this doesn't matter, then why do cosmetic microtransactions sell for billions each year? Anyways, we should all hope the game is great!
Wesley
2024-12-23 18:25:14 +0000 UTCBot comment
Dylan
2024-12-23 18:25:06 +0000 UTC"just be happy about new product, be ready to consume new product, and shaddup!!"
Theotokos Respecter
2024-12-23 18:17:48 +0000 UTClol what kind of arm chair psychology is this? Because I don’t generally like overly cocky characters because it’s annoying as hell, I somehow despise women. It’s people like you who sit there and say that anyone who disagrees with their thoughts or worldview is “negative” or off base, who are just totalitarians. You try and shut down speech with a self righteous and demeaning attitude. If you don’t think people should discuss different point of views why even have a place to discuss things? No one is positive all the time, and to judge a person off 2-3 comments shows exactly what type of person you are. No one here has said you shouldn’t speak but you are quick to tell others to. Sounds like the kind of person who shouldn’t be in a community of like minded people.
PairOfShuse
2024-12-23 18:17:11 +0000 UTCunderrated comment
Theotokos Respecter
2024-12-23 18:14:47 +0000 UTCStevie, why are you talking about his wiener when he literally said nothing about it? kinda weird...
Theotokos Respecter
2024-12-23 18:12:51 +0000 UTCYou have a personal issue with masculine and cocky women. That’s all it is. We don’t want to hear it. Colin has the right to say what he said because it’s positive. Quite simply, as you’ll learn in life, people don’t want to hear negative, bitter, shit. So yes, you were wrong and he is right. You’re so far off the boil with this, it’s unreal. The reason why he can say what he said is because it’s positive, and you’re just moaning. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it! No one gives a shit. All your comments do is spark arguments. That’s how it works.
Matt
2024-12-23 18:06:13 +0000 UTCIt sucks that this community is so filled with incels and bitter losers that are obsessed with Twitter discourse that Colin feels like he has no choice but to talk about it. I can’t believe we have to actually spend time on the dudes who are so pissed off that they aren’t sexually attracted to the protagonist of a video game. Just the saddest shit ever.
YaBoyStevieJay
2024-12-23 17:32:49 +0000 UTCEverybody pray for this man whose dick will remain soft while he plays his video game.
YaBoyStevieJay
2024-12-23 17:30:04 +0000 UTCHe went down like a chump, to die from you actions would make sense but it would be much more interesting and memorable if he died by being cornered by his past mistakes, that there is no out this time, or time to find an out. The way it was done was seriously not that. He randomly saves them the people that were hunting him, then in a room with 5 armed people surrounding him he lets his guard down and gives them his real name, something not even Ellie as a kid didn't do in the original, because Joel taught her and then we see this, it was a disgraceful handling of an iconic character. He could have gotten senile in his twilight but judging by him saving them I don't know how likely that was.
Fotis Lyto
2024-12-23 15:40:57 +0000 UTCNot spending $70 dollars to play an ugly, non-feminine MC. And I promise you, it will hurt the overall sales of the game. Look no further than Star Wars Outlaws. If it’s a genuinely great game, I might buy it when it’s 20 bucks.
Michael Joseph Darcy
2024-12-23 14:41:51 +0000 UTCThe problem for me is that the vicious cycle theme and the obsession angle are obvious in TLOU2 after showing what happened to Abby's dad, and showing the WLF being normal people trying to survive in the postapocalypic world, but they kept clumsily beating it into your head over the next 2/3rds of the game. You have a natural conclusion in the cinema where Abby spares Ellie, and after that the story just doesn't really go anywhere it's just bipolar Ellie going in circles on whether she wants to kill Abby or not, Ellie being a psycho and Ellie being a dumbass. Though to be fair that's her characterization throughout the whole game, she constantly keeps killing people 'by accident', or leaving a map to her location, or doing other dumb stuff, and then how many does she flip? 1 she wants to kill Abby, 2 she needs to go back cause Dina is pregnant forget about Abby, 3 Tommy's here now there's a real chance to kill Abby, 4 Abby spared me I'm going to live with Dina, 5 I need to kill her cause nightmares, 6 she's a wreck I'll let her go, 7 no I need to kill her cause flashback, 8 actually there's no point to this let her live. I count 8 times. Then of course there are other issues - gameplay can't sustain a 25-30hr long game, pacing is bad, the game has like 4 endings where you can cut and roll the credits but keeps going, Abby's part is way too long, and it doesn't really achieve much(maybe this is where the cut Scar priestess bits were supposed to be?), the trademark ND storytelling devices of pausing everything, forcing you to walk instead of running, and making you go through on-rail cinematic leveles with 0 replayability (that have such riveting gameplay as walk up the stairs into the room on the right in the oceanarium as Abby to trigger the next cut-scene) are in full swing here, too. The young Drake levels from UC3 have really gotten out of hand by now. Playing modern ND games honestly feels like I'm stuck in traffic waiting for the devs to let me play them. Their cinematic presentation>gameplay approach makes me feel like they've forgotten what media they're in and it's been getting worse and worse since UC3 (TLOU1 was still a masterpiece, though). David Cage and Kojima have been getting shit for years for making barely interactive movies, yet ND was somehow getting scott-free (up till TLOU2 I guess, though the conversation there became so toxic that if you didn't like parts of the game you were immediately labeled as a bigot and nothing besides that came through).
MISZCZOGRZMOT
2024-12-23 14:07:44 +0000 UTCNah, they just didn't show anything exciting. The same tired retro-futurustic vibe that have become the default future look since Guardians released, and no gameplay at all. You can't really make out her personality from that snippet, but I can see people being disinterested in another Forspoken character. Returnal had a middle-aged woman as the protagnosit and I personally couldn't care less.
MISZCZOGRZMOT
2024-12-23 13:35:50 +0000 UTCFirst off… Disney was not shy about pulling folks off of projects for doing stuff they didn’t like. Ant Man. Solo. Rogue One. Kathleen wanted that decision. Secondly, they didn’t go into TLJ with a blank slate. That’s not how film production works. He was on the island in hermit mode when the film ends. They don’t just shoehorn a plot around that. Third… your simplistic reduction removes all existing context. Luke was willing to let the galaxy burn to save his friends in Empire. He abandons his training despite Yodas warning. That dude doesn’t just bale on his friends. Fourth, look how they treated Han & Chewie for additional context. They always planned on breaking down the original heroes to supplant them.
Kenneth Koepnick
2024-12-23 13:34:20 +0000 UTCThey literally didn't set up anything for Luke in TFA aside from the fact that he's gone, and that there's a map leading to his location. And that was the point - so that they have a blank slate in the next movie
MISZCZOGRZMOT
2024-12-23 13:29:48 +0000 UTCGreat episode but to the landlord situation guy. I say go for it, I did it and nothing happen, we went on a few dates and realized it wasn't in the cards. She was always super friendly after that and we would chat randomly. People put situations on a pedestal. There is nothing wrong with saying: Hey, would you like to grab a bite to eat/ or get coffee sometime as a date? If she says no, say ok, had to ask for the heart or some line like that. Most women aren't going to have a problem with that. Just don't push anything and be ready to completely move on from it. Don't let fear cloud such a simple question/interaction.
Joseph Cerini
2024-12-23 13:06:09 +0000 UTCNah, it was obviously retooled multiple times, rushed and cut to pieces, leaving us with a clumsy story with poor characterization and gameplay that couldn't possibly sustain a 25-30hr long game. There's so much more with the awkward emotional manipulation bits, poor pacing, etc. I got the platinum and I'm never playing it again.
MISZCZOGRZMOT
2024-12-23 12:40:56 +0000 UTCI really hope Colin shows a fraction of the love for his future kids that he does for Naughty Dog and Neil Druckmann haha just teasing Colin 😉
Barry Cahill
2024-12-23 10:04:06 +0000 UTCShe was the sole reason why Drake's child was changed from a boy to a girl and why Nadine kicked Drake's ass in the first meeting in U4 according to an interview Neil did years ago.
Barry Cahill
2024-12-23 10:00:48 +0000 UTCHow was he old and soft when Jessie and Ellie constantly talk about how brutal and harsh Joel was training them? We're constantly told how Joel was responsible for everyone's safety and training them.
Andrew Simmons
2024-12-23 08:38:37 +0000 UTCTLOU2 is objectively a brilliant game. Graphics, mo-cap, voice acting, environments, gameplay. Brilliant. Story, characters and a lack of infected ruined it for me. It's a bad game to me because I compare the story and character development to TLOU as it's awful. I didn't rate Uncharted 3 and 4 either. I desperately wanted Factions 2 but that was canned. I'm just tapped out of ND. Intergalactic looks generic. Robot enemies? Meh. Generic. Oh look, late 70s/80s vibe. Oh look, Guardians of the galaxy-esque crew. Just bland.
Andrew Simmons
2024-12-23 08:34:50 +0000 UTCI remember when people said that about BioWare
Chris Evans
2024-12-23 06:19:17 +0000 UTCYou’re being cute but Joel was a cut above the rest, like Bill, compare it to media it takes inspiration from like The Road & 28 Days Later, The Father & Jim both had a natural instinct in them to survive (Jim is back in 28 Years Later & The Father only passed due to illness), we’re never going to follow a character who’s going to be killed off by being taken down from behind like an NPC, the story focuses on Joel as a protagonist because he can survive, “hey my names Joel the guy who murdered a whole hospital full of Firefly’s” doesn’t matter if it’s been 5 years or 50 years since he did that, he wouldn’t openly tell everyone who he is, even John Marston said his name was Jim Milton, it’s sloppy fucking writing for him to have been killed off in that way, Druckmann wanted Ellie as the main protagonist, fine, but do it in Part 3 and give us a realistic and proper send off for Joel, a fan favourite, respect your fans! I’d rather he’d have died at the university then that bollocks, and then make us play as the character who killed him? I could give a fuck about how Abby looks and while I do think it’s ridiculous that her protection of a character who’s identifies as trans in the literal end of the world is shoehorned in to meet the modern audience quota (time and a place for that sensitive story telling) do absolutely not make me play as the character who kills him? Druckmann definitely has his story telling chops, Part 1 and Uncharted 4 but what’d those two games have in common? Bruce Straley
Daddy T
2024-12-23 01:43:48 +0000 UTCAMEN! Every time a character died in The Last of Us Part 1 I would think “this character lasted 20 years in this shit! How are they dying now? 20 years of life in zombie apocalypse means you live forever.” Fuckin dumbass writers man.
Del Griffith
2024-12-23 00:19:47 +0000 UTCIt’s Naughty Dog, that’s all I need to know to buy it day one.
Chris Van Buren
2024-12-22 23:14:28 +0000 UTCPeople dont like Neil because he’s an Anita Sarkeesian sympathizer
Trevor Myers
2024-12-22 23:12:43 +0000 UTCLiqud Link please do tell us exactly how we were ‘skill checked by a goated story’? A proper response please, I’d love to hear how you feel about it.
Daddy T
2024-12-22 16:18:33 +0000 UTCWhat are you even taking about? If you’re talking about The Last of Us 2, I played the first game multiple times and the I’ve finished the second as well. I’m not even someone who thinks The Last of Us 2 is a bad game. I do think the story of the first and second games are highly overrated though. Good but overrated. The vast majority of what is in the last of us has been done in the Walking Dead well before it even came out. People love to hate on the Walking Dead now but for the first 5-6 seasons people loved it and it was one of the most popular shows on tv. Many of the themes in it are in the last of us. The things I dislike about the last of us 2 - as I stated above, the humor/lack of variety of humor which shows the character writing is kind of one note. While I think the motivation of Abby and the character of Abby herself are both good, she’s highly unrealistic. I normally wouldn’t care but for a game that people loved to throw around realism about, unless Abby is eating a ton of meat, exercising and strength training regularly, and a heaping amount of testosterone being administered weekly, there is zero way she would be as muscular and able to maintain that physique. It would be insane for a man to look like this potentially in this world, let alone a woman. It’s also kind of ridiculous at the end with what happens to her, that she looks the way she does, that’s not how it works (I don’t want to post spoilers). I’m in the camp of I don’t have to like the characters in the game (I think that’s part of the point that these people aren’t great) so I have nothing bad to say about Abby as a character herself. The whole Lev storyline is stupid. If that was a concern of people in the post apocalypse, you wouldn’t last three seconds. People have waaaaay more important things to care about, hence why it feels shoehorned into the game (not to mention the actors being used as the character model always push the same ideology as in the game so it feels more like a lecture than just a part of the story). The main story of the game though, I think is good. The gameplay is good. The game itself is just longer than it needs to be and drags at points. Do I love the characters in the game? Not really. I think most of them are terrible people, which suits the story, but doesn’t make me care for them much. Most of the people in the game who are decent and deserve better either are wronged or treated awful. Jessie being one and Tommy (by far) being the other off the top of my head. Maybe instead of being outraged by nuanced opinion on a game, maybe get outraged at the far leftists actually being racist towards Druckman (who I’m not a big fan of myself but just for talent reasons) constantly going on about Israel. That’s the true vile behavior.
PairOfShuse
2024-12-22 14:18:41 +0000 UTCIt’s a three and half hour podcast. They said a lot of things, none of which you brought up pertaining to my comment
Nghtseye
2024-12-22 14:00:23 +0000 UTCLol yall got skill checked by a goated story
LiquidLink98
2024-12-22 13:58:13 +0000 UTCThey said you shouldn't just spoil games and that attacking people online because you didn't like their game is bad. Seems pretty reasonable to normal people.
LiquidLink98
2024-12-22 13:57:19 +0000 UTCThat's cool and all but they literally did mention gameplay and Chris said he loved Part 2s gameplay.
LiquidLink98
2024-12-22 13:55:45 +0000 UTCTelling people to not voice their opinion on something they’re passionate about is never going to work. At the end of the day these companies are making games for us to buy and if they choose to upset and alienate a large part of buyers with their product, that’s on them
Nghtseye
2024-12-22 11:54:34 +0000 UTCI’m confused as to how you didn’t understand his opinion from that?
Daddy T
2024-12-22 09:56:52 +0000 UTCHe was definitely soft in the head after that incident, just mush
Daddy T
2024-12-22 09:55:17 +0000 UTCEh he was old and soft. Dude spent five years not having to fight to survive and whittling wooden horses. Lost his edge.
JT
2024-12-22 03:49:15 +0000 UTCYes
SirJoseph_iv
2024-12-22 02:22:57 +0000 UTCBro they literally have a story beat in that game where a trans kid messes up the whole plot to go kill his “bigoted” mother haha
SirJoseph_iv
2024-12-22 02:19:24 +0000 UTCIs “it being a naughty dog game” not enough? They’re arguably the most prolific western studio
Greg Hadden
2024-12-22 01:07:40 +0000 UTCYeah, that was an extremely pathetic moment in the discussion. Granted, I don’t post much in the comments or go looking for it, but I haven’t seen anyone say that at all about this character.
PairOfShuse
2024-12-22 00:29:06 +0000 UTCUh did you read what I wrote? I said I couldn’t stand the attitude of the character mainly. She seems like a mid 20 year old character with the marvel like sass and attitude of a 15 year old. I cannot stand that character type. It’s one of the things I hated about a lot of the characters in The Last of Us 2. Almost every character in that game had the snarky, sarcastic humor with very little deviation. You’re telling me that no one else has a different sense of humor? The main character in Intergalactic feels very similar to this from what has been shown. The smug look sipping on the straw is just extremely grating and childish in the most annoying way. It also doesn’t lead me to believe this character is this extremely dangerous bounty hunter. Bounty hunters don’t have to be super serious but it just doesn’t do it for me. If you’re going by how the character looks - I find the character boring. I’m not a fan of shaved heads from an aesthetic choice for male or female characters. Doesn’t mean they are a bad character just because of that, but it’s not my favorite look. I’m also very very tired of taking actors and actresses and scanning them in pore for pore and that being the character. You can use real people if you want, but stylize them some, change things here and there so it isn’t like I’m just playing as Scarlet Johansson or Chris Evans. It’s boring as hell. Apparently the entire main cast are just actors. I don’t come to gaming to get Hollywood ver 2.0. None of my favorite characters in gaming are copy pastes of real life people.
PairOfShuse
2024-12-22 00:22:40 +0000 UTCWhat don’t you like about the character, specifically? Please divulge, because that is the true answer, not some rant without giving us your own specific opinion.
Matt
2024-12-22 00:14:57 +0000 UTCAn hour talking about Naughty Dog and zero mention of gameplay in a discussion about video >GAMES<. I don’t care about characters or designs. I’m there for the ride, but games media has treated PlayStation 1st party like they’re the best developers in the world and I think there’s a lot of people, including myself, that are tired of it. Not every game has to be for everyone, but when talking about games as an art form, old school cut scenes and forced walking so characters can talk doesn’t cut it anymore. Meanwhile, most PlayStation 1st party games are just riffing on other 3rd party franchises. Everyone wonders how all these live service games survive. It’s because they’re about gameplay. Story is an afterthought.
Xemphanis
2024-12-21 22:57:26 +0000 UTCRIP to the laughs
Theotokos Respecter
2024-12-21 22:35:58 +0000 UTCTrue
yosh_wah
2024-12-21 21:57:58 +0000 UTCYou seem very confident that not calling other community members names won’t be the first, and most obvious, rule in the code of conduct.
Jimmy G
2024-12-21 21:33:24 +0000 UTCDon’t forget about the Tales game that unfortunately aged a bit prematurely, Tales of Progeria.
Teddy
2024-12-21 20:41:23 +0000 UTCbased
Theotokos Respecter
2024-12-21 18:45:58 +0000 UTCI don’t know man, I feel like it happened too sloppy, dude just giving out his name to anyone like that, I feel they could have at least made it feel real in the moment
Daddy T
2024-12-21 18:28:18 +0000 UTCI mean... it TOTALLY makes sense that he would get fucken killed. He survived for 20+years by killing and scrapping etc... His time was coming. He fucking murdered a LOT of people. Of COURSE he would be on someone's "hit list." It caught up to him. The chickens came home to roost. End of the road buddy. It makes sense.
Jason
2024-12-21 18:17:40 +0000 UTCI’m perfectly fine with female protagonists games. Aloy is one of my favorite PlayStation characters. I just don’t find the Intergalactic protagonist very appealing.
Haru Discourse
2024-12-21 18:07:36 +0000 UTC@Zac Absolutely correct.
Jason
2024-12-21 18:06:28 +0000 UTCI like those guys. They are right about most things.
Jason
2024-12-21 18:04:23 +0000 UTCYeah, i never said anyone was either of those words. People can be skeptical of the character, like I really didn’t like her “know it all” attitude when she was sucking on the straw, but i’m not gonna cry about it. There are valid criticisms that don’t grouped into those other people’s “woke” concerns, but this was a 3 minute teaser. Anyone already writing off the character based off that is pretty silly and there are people doing that because she is a woman who people see as another Abby. Just go on twitter or r/thelastofus2
peanutbutterloveer
2024-12-21 17:57:02 +0000 UTCYeah, same with Rocksteady
Haru Discourse
2024-12-21 17:56:38 +0000 UTCExactly. Ultimately the artist can do whatever they want. But people are absolutely allowed to not like it and disagree... it doesn't make them "deranged" or "intolerant". Especially during modern times when diversity is forced into almost everything... Sometimes in direct opposition to the story and lore... People are allowed to not like that bullshit.
Jason
2024-12-21 17:53:42 +0000 UTCI weirdly think Abby is fucking hot. Lol. It's totally unrealistic for her to be THAT yoked... and it leaves the breast-area a little lacking... but I think she's actually a babe. Am I the only one?
Jason
2024-12-21 17:50:14 +0000 UTCWe shouldn't lump everyone into the "must play as a man" group. The legitimate criticism over character design is subjective and nobody is "deranged" or "intolerant" for having preferences and views on it. That's it. That's all.
Jason
2024-12-21 17:48:41 +0000 UTCAbsolutely. Nailed it bro.
Jason
2024-12-21 17:44:18 +0000 UTCi didn’t say need, i said if it’s one or the other more diversity makes more sense than simply jacked, white males for every story.
peanutbutterloveer
2024-12-21 17:00:00 +0000 UTCWhy exactly does it NEED to be more diverse?
Chris Evans
2024-12-21 16:55:36 +0000 UTCHey Col, just so you're aware, the Wormhole placed near Saturn in the movie Interstellar does indeed lead to another Galaxy. This makes the communication aspect (receiving video messages) pretty much impossible. uuuhoooohhhh tesseract uuuurrrnnngh
WhatDarrenPlays
2024-12-21 16:48:44 +0000 UTCNo
Chris Evans
2024-12-21 16:48:19 +0000 UTCI can respect that for sure, different strokes for different folks as they say
Ben Haner
2024-12-21 16:21:04 +0000 UTCI respectfully disagree. While the timing may have had an impact, the story, the pacing, and the drawn out playtime would be (possibly) bothering to people regardless of the year it came out. I replayed the first 1/3 of it this year and gave it up, but that's just anecdotal. The gameplay is fantastic, but in my opinion, the story is a slog and not NEARLY as good as the first game.
ajwhite
2024-12-21 15:49:58 +0000 UTCSame. Kind of reminds me of Scribblenauts
ajwhite
2024-12-21 15:47:36 +0000 UTCGreat episode from all including Kyle 🤭
Robbie Agnew
2024-12-21 15:24:51 +0000 UTCThis right here is the comment we should all point too for people telling us stop crying because we don’t want to play as a woman or that it’s ‘woke’. It’s not that we don’t want to play as a woman, I could give a fuck! And what makes me laugh is they keep saying “how can you make any judgement from a reveal trailer about the game?” isn’t that what reveal trailers are supposed to fucking do? Reveal the game and give the audience a feel about what’s to come? I love the Sacred boys and they’ve always brightened up my Fridays but holy shit I personally found it hard to listen to these last two episodes, they cannot for the life of them say anything bad about ND, particularly Colin. I’m sure the gameplay is going to be great, it always is with ND, visuals look stunning already, but this retro-future aesthetic and obnoxious main character (whose actress is definitely opinionated on certain things for better or worse) is total slop, they were so tone deaf this episode they were calling Exodus sci-fi slop, get the common man to name anything besides Interstellar that deals with time dilation, we don’t see that often AT ALL but we saw retro futurism in a Sony game a few months ago, called Concord, look what happened there. I don’t know man, how people can’t see the writing on the wall with this one, because it’s “clearly inspired by Akira and Cowboy Beepop!”, sure it might be, but that’s not what I was seeing, I was seeing 2014-2024 generic tripe all over that trailer. *in the slop voice* “hmmmm it’s the Sempirion moon hmmmmm”, give me a break.
Daddy T
2024-12-21 15:22:27 +0000 UTCBefore anything, I do agree that insults shouldn’t just be thrown around when discussing things. That being said, I really don’t think the attitudes shown in this episode help the discourse. I find it highly arrogant and presumptuous to tell people what they can and can’t find palatable to them. Just because YOU like Naughty Dog a ton, doesn’t mean anyone else has to. I’ve played most of their games, and while I find them good, there are definitely things they have done recently that I don’t care for at all. To tell people it’s insane or derangement to not enjoy something or that your legit criticism isn’t correct is the exact thing that causes the discourse to become what it is. Take Intergalactic for example - I don’t have to like the character design. Colin admittedly doesn’t watch movies really anymore, never watched marvel besides less than a handful of the movies, doesn’t interact with tv, so how can you sit there and say that oh why wouldn’t you like this character? Because they have a bald head and looks butch? Yes. And I’m allowed to. Just as someone is allowed to not like a character that looks like Eve from Stellar Blade. The character in Intergalactic, from what is shown, looks like mid 20 year old that has the attitude of a snarky 15 year old from a Marvel movie. The shaved head aesthetic on this specific character, which that attitude is highly unappealing to me. Where do you get off saying I cannot think that and tell me it isn’t legitimate. With that logic you can’t have any criticism or personal preference on any character design in anything ever. It’s such a disingenuous take, I don’t know how you can say it with a straight face. From what is shown in the trailer, I don’t like it. There is nothing wrong with that. As for the woke claims, nothing is blatantly that right now but said character design and attitude is a trend among the woke media that they put out. Colin, you have constantly said, you notice things when these types of things are put out there, and that when it is pointed out, people get mad. Well, this is one of those cases. I truthfully think your Naughty Dog bias is clouding this whole thing. That what it feels like anyways. I think the truly disgusting thing with the Neil hate is the blatant hate for him and being Jewish. That’s way more disgusting than any type of accusations of being woke, and the majority of that hate comes from the left side, from what I’ve seen. I think it is stupid when people are like ugh I don’t want to play as a woman just because it’s a female character. That’s stupid and female characters have been a thing in gaming since the NES. Both sides are disingenuous about this. But this specific type of character, I completely understand (and I agree) why people wouldn’t like them. My take is not some knee jerk reaction. I look at things and make nuanced point and an in depth point on why I don’t like or why I like something. This whole calling people deranged or saying their take is crazy when you have a reasonable dislike for something is what causes people to get to ridiculous levels of outrage since they are being dismissed, when maybe people have legit reasoning.
PairOfShuse
2024-12-21 15:03:50 +0000 UTCWho the fuck is Canoe Reeves? 🤣 You guys are super critical on Secret Level tho. I enjoyed every ep. Can’t wait for S2.
NeO JD
2024-12-21 14:22:35 +0000 UTCOr you have people like Jaffe coming on and calling all conservatives trash people and only if you voted for someone like Trump for economic reasons are you a potentially ok person. Why should someone like that be allowed on the platform? I mean I agree people shouldn’t just be insulting each other on the comments but when you platform someone like Jaffe who is constantly calling people racist, insulting women (granted off platform), and constantly berating large swaths of people for their political beliefs, it kind of comes off a little hypocritical
PairOfShuse
2024-12-21 13:40:07 +0000 UTCDude I would play that typing RPG in 5 seconds, that’s a great idea
GameSimp
2024-12-21 13:06:26 +0000 UTCChris has always had this attitude. And this way of looking at things isn’t “left” or “right”. The only thing Chris has mentioned before that would even come close to this type of stuff was how he says he appreciated some of the Puerto Rican things in Spider Man, and that it’s just a neat thing to see. But he’s never been the type that would want to demand a creator or any sort to do something in this style - Chris is literally the opposite of that. You are searching for things that aren’t there to validate your “team” based approach to conversations or topics.
Zack E
2024-12-21 12:05:48 +0000 UTCJacked women aren’t realistic?
Zack E
2024-12-21 11:58:38 +0000 UTCHardened survivor of over 20+ years in Tlou “yeah of course he’s gonna die!” Usually agree with the boys but the ND glazing is fucking bonkers
Daddy T
2024-12-21 10:35:40 +0000 UTCWhoever came up with that thumbnail, well fucking done
Steve Gray
2024-12-21 09:28:16 +0000 UTCThe problem with The Last of Us Pt 2 is I believe the timeframe it was released 2020, the height of the pandemic, the mental bandwidth of most was challenged/tested at the most vulnerable state. If it had come out a year or two later I do not believe the discourse would have been as intense as it turned out to be
Ben Haner
2024-12-21 08:32:21 +0000 UTC“Tesseract” 🥸
FoundWaldo
2024-12-21 07:52:12 +0000 UTCAppreciate that the files were named again. I think I'm up to 1(6) as the file name for the last one.
Francis
2024-12-21 04:55:41 +0000 UTCThe Mavis Beacon game idea is fantastic!
Prince Borutski
2024-12-21 04:39:31 +0000 UTCJust saw Colin's open letter to the community. Goodbye in advance to all the lads it seems are going to be excommunicated for being dickheads in the comments. You had a good run.
Grimm Carousel
2024-12-21 03:45:58 +0000 UTCThe Buzz Lightyear movie is largely framed around time dialation.
Cameron
2024-12-21 03:37:34 +0000 UTCHaven’t listened to the intergalactic segment yet, but after reading the discourse and some of these comments, why do some people NEED male representation to enjoy a game? Intergalactic looks interesting but that’s as far as I’ll go, we really need more information and gameplay to make more of an impression. But i cannot understand the “must play as a man” argument which people take and use as a reason for why the game will be bad. It’s really odd, im a white male in real life. I dont need to play as a white male in every game i try out in a world that can never be relatable to begin with. If anything there should be more diverse representation in gaming.
peanutbutterloveer
2024-12-21 03:05:59 +0000 UTCHow come for years people praised Game of Thrones for “no plot armor”, but when Naughty Dog does it it’s a sin? I think many people take it as a metaphor. The non-typically attractive girl *spoilers* a big burly white guy.
Diddy’s Dong Quest
2024-12-21 02:25:28 +0000 UTCBut it is realistic unlike jacked women
Chris Evans
2024-12-21 01:30:58 +0000 UTCA normal or cool looking protagonist it’s quite simple
Chris Evans
2024-12-21 01:30:04 +0000 UTCTotally true, most men are exactly like male protagonists in games. Take me for example I’m the same height as Kratos and have the sex appeal of Nathan Drake.
Big Daddy Took Me Deep And I Don’t Mean To Rapture
2024-12-21 01:20:08 +0000 UTCLast Jedi isn’t responsible for disrespecting Luke… it was the natural progression of the lame story they set up in TFA. Love you guys. Great episode. Merry Christmas.
Kenneth Koepnick
2024-12-21 00:48:28 +0000 UTCI may have misplaced the context of his "Im mad that you fucked this game up for me" quote, but the fact remains that I agree with his general sentiment on the topic, as far as who really gives a shit about a characters sexuality such as Ellie in TLOU. For Intergalactic, we have no idea on this characters sexuality or furthermore if it would have any relevance whatsoever to the whole game, but so many people are ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater because "buff woman bad" or "buzzed head bad, game = trash now." As if Intergalactic's MC is portrayed as anything more than a woman with a buzzed haircut at this point, shes not buff or unconventional past anything besides her literal hair style as far as we know, but again many people reject it at very first glance.
Prestoid
2024-12-21 00:24:57 +0000 UTCI dont disagree that a game studios end result is on them at the end of the day. But Colin said hes never been so angry and vitriolic about any piece of fiction to need to go out of his way saying "I'm really mad that you fucked this game up for me." And that being that upset about a video game or game studio is fucking weird. As he said its a work of fiction and theres bound to be different and varied people in it. I personally dont understand why some people need to relate or be attracted to every MC. Its not a problem for Lara Croft or the Stellar Blade MC because theyre "conventionally attractive" but the second theres a more unconventional female character some people are upset. Have they never once made a female character in a create a character because it couldnt relate to them as males? Again, I agree with Colin that that's fucking weird.
Prestoid
2024-12-21 00:15:32 +0000 UTCWhat do most people want to play as, Chris?
SL
2024-12-21 00:09:13 +0000 UTCNever mind
Big Daddy Took Me Deep And I Don’t Mean To Rapture
2024-12-20 23:55:22 +0000 UTCDustin! I worked at a Family Video in Ontario up until they closed in 2020. We needed to remind customers that they needed a 4k Blu Ray player to play 4K discs because people would routinely grab them without knowing. Your little anecdote brought back some great memories ahaha
Eric Smith the Bartender (not the Sony Employee)
2024-12-20 23:55:21 +0000 UTCColin wants the lefties like you out of here lol you’re the one making this place into a war zone
Chris Evans
2024-12-20 23:11:41 +0000 UTCMan, I'm sorry but I just couldn't disagree more. If people are honest with themselves, I think the issue with having so many female MCs is about not relating to the protagonist. It really is that simple. I think everyone wants to attribute things in the culture war to malice when it really is as simple as wanting to relate to the MC in a narrative driven game. Lara Croft was unique in its time that had two things going for it. First, she's hot. Upon initial release you can point out the polygonal character model and say she wasn't, but just look at the art. She's clearly supposed to be an attractive girl. And surprise! Young men like attractive women. Second, the audience did not have the perception that female MCs were being shoved down their throat. Nowadays, there are many people that perceive this to be the case. Whether you agree or disagree, that is their perception. And they don't like it. They want characters that the can put themselves into more easily. That isn't a malicious instinct. Stellar Blade is pretty simple in terms of an explanation: hot anime chick. I don't really feel the need to go into any more detail than that. I think we need to start looking past the most outspoken of the culture warriors to glean what general audiences are feeling. When I try to look past the culture warriors, I see audiences that want relatable and well written stories and characters, and they're not getting them. I also think your two examples prove this point. It's not that they don't want NO female characters, it's that they don't want ONLY female MCs. So when they see a character that they cannot relate to on the surface, they say to themselves "ahh shit, here we go again." And to be clear, I'm not saying this is the ONLY factor in the backlash, I'm just saying that the basis of the specific complaints of having so many female main characters in these games is that audiences want to relate to the characters and it's getting more and more difficult, from their perspective.
Zac
2024-12-20 23:10:39 +0000 UTCThere was a time BioWares track record spoke for itself. Nothing is a guarantee
Chris Evans
2024-12-20 23:10:32 +0000 UTCAfter listening the main point for me is the artist’s reason for creating the character the way they did. You can never really know what their reasoning is but characters like Furiosa and Ripley feel like they fit in their world and weren’t created because of politics or to meet a quota, you trust the creators and that’s what matters. The politics for the MC for intergalactic are certainly something and you can say the same thing about the actress for the new ghost game too. Sure is interesting. Also the number of female MCs for Sony games is wild, you guys forgot Yotei. Feels forced and unnatural, that’s the problem.
OCEL0T
2024-12-20 23:07:10 +0000 UTCThat’s not what he said, he said he doesn’t understand letting it upset you to the point that you need to go out of your way to bash others for liking it and spoil the game for others. At the end of the day, as much as games are art games are also a product and if something doesn’t appeal to you you have every right to let the people making it know about it. If they choose to ignore criticisms and they end up losing money and laying people off or closing down the studio that’s on them.
Chris Evans
2024-12-20 23:06:03 +0000 UTCThat’s fair. I’ve played every Naughty Dog game. I’m sure I have a bias toward them as well. I’m just confused by how they chose to show this game for the first time. In my opinion, there’s so little to latch on to or to be excited about that I’m just left wondering why anyone should even be interested other than “it’s a Naughty Dog game.” No gameplay, no hype, as Chris says.
yosh_wah
2024-12-20 22:57:43 +0000 UTCMy thing is this, most people don’t want to play as a butch masculine bald woman. The vast majority of women aren’t butch and jacked or strong and it feels like they’re trying to push something especially when you consider the context of Abby from TLOU 2. The trailer showed no gameplay and looked pretty generic. I was left unimpressed. The game could still be good of course. And when they do show gameplay my opinion could change, but that’s where I’m at and I think most people are too. In any event Merry Christmas to all and I hope you boys have a great holiday break and come back fresh for another great year at LSM!
Chris Evans
2024-12-20 22:52:39 +0000 UTCIf people are honest with themselves, I don't think this is about relating to the protagonist. Did the (even more male dominated) audience have a problem playing as Lara Croft 30 years ago? No, it was a feature, not a bug. Or take stellar blade as a recent example - a *different* subset of people had a problem with that main character because she was too sexy, but I doubt there was much overlap with those complaining about Intergalactic's main character.
Adam
2024-12-20 22:49:38 +0000 UTCMasculine men in dangerous situations is not uncommon for many reasons
OCEL0T
2024-12-20 22:45:50 +0000 UTCLol you do you!
OCEL0T
2024-12-20 22:44:58 +0000 UTCI guess what I meant is masculine women as all of those traits lead to that.
OCEL0T
2024-12-20 22:43:47 +0000 UTCYou weirdos always make it about sex/ sexual orientation. Didn't say a word about any of that. I could care less that ellie is gay, I could care less about lev being trans. I just hate shitty writing, and tlou2 is chock-full of horrible writing
Khyle Claeys
2024-12-20 22:38:14 +0000 UTCSo glad to hear that they are remastering more Tales of games. Hope Tales of the Abyss is up 🔜
Haru Discourse
2024-12-20 22:37:50 +0000 UTCEither or kind of thing but some characters check both boxes
OCEL0T
2024-12-20 22:37:41 +0000 UTCWell the long history doesn't have anything to do with games moving forward. If you look at contemporary and future PlayStation games, it seems like the majority of the tentpole products are female driven. Personally, that doesn't affect my purchases, but by the logic that we were just talking about I think we can both agree that it's understandable that a significant portion of players will be moving away from PlayStation titles and will start going for the games that you point out the industry is awash with. Basically what I'm saying is that if you agree with the logic that women can more easily relate to female MCs, then you agree that men can relate more easily with male MCs. I think this is self-evident and obvious. Therefore, it is completely understandable that a portion of men would be moving away from PlayStation products. Considering that gaming had a majority make audience, we will see if this will affect PlayStation as a business, but I think dismissing the obvious and understandable fact that it is easier for general audiences to relate to an MC on the basis of gender is short sighted.
Zac
2024-12-20 22:31:47 +0000 UTCSure but we have enough context. This is PlayStation’s most expensive studio. This game is going to be in development 6 or 7 years, assuming it comes out in 2026/2027. Judging by the reveal trailer, it’s technically very ambitious. And we know the sale numbers of recent Naughty Dog games, including the sale numbers of the last time it ventured out and made a new IP. With all this context, PlayStation still signed off on it rather than directed ND back to old, reliable wells. All of this suggests lofty commercial ambitions. An assumption, but a reasonable one. And I think the game will sell well and turn a profit, but to justify the opportunity cost and the risk of a project this expensive, the ROI ambition is not going to settle for anything modest. That said, I think the game is going to struggle to meet commercial exceptions if those commercial expectations are even 10 million copies. And if the expectations are less than this, how the hell did this project get greenlit? Again, everything points to aggressive sales forecasting. And that looks like a potential misread at this point of time.
MomsLikeMe
2024-12-20 22:14:44 +0000 UTCId understand it more if the industry weren’t currently awash in male protagonists, let alone its long history of being awash in them.
SL
2024-12-20 22:06:52 +0000 UTCThe Lost Legacy
MomsLikeMe
2024-12-20 22:04:07 +0000 UTCAs opposed to the longstanding pattern of ‘bald space marines’ we somehow survived in the 360/PS3 days? Interestingly, I dont remember the same visceral reaction 🤔
SL
2024-12-20 21:56:19 +0000 UTCWe have no idea what the sales expectations are. If they’re hoping it will do Horizon Zero Dawn numbers, then yeah. If they’re hoping for Uncharted 1 numbers, it absolutely could.
SL
2024-12-20 21:54:34 +0000 UTCI think an issue with modern movies and games is placing protagonists who appear to have just jumped out of Vogue magazine, into worlds where the individual in question would last approximately 15 seconds. They look like they don’t belong. Pair this with the overt, currently unearned arrogance of your main protagonist and you get lots of dislikes on your YouTube trailer.
WreckItRoush
2024-12-20 21:53:35 +0000 UTCIt’s ludicrous to weigh a characters interactions with another named character against what they do to the mountains of NPCs when in the players control. There will always be a dissonance there.
SL
2024-12-20 21:53:11 +0000 UTCRight, and by that same logic you can understand why men are getting sick of female MCs monopolizing PlayStation games, like the write-in pointed out
Zac
2024-12-20 21:53:06 +0000 UTC“IRSn’t”
Dreamed about Ronald McDonald with a bowl cut frowning in black and white, woke up cackling
2024-12-20 21:52:35 +0000 UTCWho cares if you’re a male or sho breast feeds you kids?
SL
2024-12-20 21:50:32 +0000 UTCI wish I could like this more than once. The thimble dicked incel man-babies have got to go
SL
2024-12-20 21:49:14 +0000 UTCMaybe Jak X Combat Racing? Uncharted 1 is MUCH better than that game imo.
Heretic The Intergalactic Prophet
2024-12-20 21:48:59 +0000 UTCI genuinely disliked TLOU2 because I felt it was poorly paced and ultimately had a rather simple message that it beat the player over the head with. Disliking it because they took your strong white man away, showed you lesbians exist, and featured a woman that wasnt specifically designed to make your pee-pee hard is very different.
SL
2024-12-20 21:48:01 +0000 UTCI’ve always felt like modern Naughty Dog writing was a cousin of Marvel writing, so I get it.
Diddy’s Dong Quest
2024-12-20 21:43:01 +0000 UTCWhen is the last time Naughty Dog put out a truly subpar game? Uncharted 1 maybe?
Diddy’s Dong Quest
2024-12-20 21:41:49 +0000 UTCI would love for Colin to discuss this with those assholes from Geeks and Gamers, Nerdrodic and RK outpost. These guys will NEVER change their minds on Naughty Dog and Neil Drukman. Kinda sad tbh.
Christian
2024-12-20 21:40:24 +0000 UTCOf course. Which is why its great that games like Intergalactic give those women the chance to experience that
Sascha Lichtenstein
2024-12-20 21:40:14 +0000 UTCIf a female friend of mine wanted to get into gaming and asked for a recommendation for a game and specifically wanted a female MC I wouldn't even bat an eye. Wanting a MC that you can more easily relate to seems like a completely normal thing to me.
Zac
2024-12-20 21:07:11 +0000 UTCI agree with Colin, i cant fathom being so overtly, vocally upset by a piece of fiction..its a video game. If you dont like it, dont bother with it. As if every piece of art needs to be to YOUR liking in particular, for one reason or another. Let artists make what they want to make, and if youre truly so fed up with the current state of the medium maybe even try your hand, instead of bitching and moaning about mainly surface level "issues". Alot of people are just miserable bastards and it shows in my opinion.
Prestoid
2024-12-20 20:58:36 +0000 UTCthe gameplay is perfect. I’m excited to see what the gameplay on intergalactic is going to be since they said they’re going to build on what they’ve learned over the years (which will mean last of us III will be even more insane). But I reserve the right to look at the trailer and think it looks like marvel slop lol
Theotokos Respecter
2024-12-20 20:55:16 +0000 UTCREEEEEEEEEE INCEL!!!!!! Midwit
Theotokos Respecter
2024-12-20 20:51:39 +0000 UTCTotally agree. I’d argue that writing something divisive is even more impressive than something universally praised.
Dreamed about Ronald McDonald with a bowl cut frowning in black and white, woke up cackling
2024-12-20 20:48:31 +0000 UTCTLOU 2 was a sequel to an extremely popular game, while intergalactic is a brand new IP that people who don’t buy games based on studio name alone will need to be sold on. We haven’t seen much of the game yet so it’s still up in the air how it does, but I wouldn’t consider its success a foregone conclusion.
Haru Discourse
2024-12-20 20:41:43 +0000 UTCHuge huge HUGE shout-out to Colin for jumping on those spoiler grenades for us. I switched to PC after PS4 so I'm still waiting to play part 2 and I've completely avoided spoilers to this point aside from some innuendo, but that is in no small part thanks to Colin. Big ups to the boy, thank you Cobra Commander!
Zac
2024-12-20 20:40:54 +0000 UTCI'd say because Naughty Dog's track record speaks for itself. The outrage around this game is just grummz/sidescrollers type culture war rage bait. I can't imagine being a normal well adjusted person and getting upset about anything that was shown so far.
Eric the human
2024-12-20 20:39:04 +0000 UTCLoving the part where Dustin thought Colin’s “what do you guys think it could be” was referring to Dustin leaving the chicken alone over the holidays and not the new bots in Astro Bot.
Bogey
2024-12-20 20:38:45 +0000 UTCI think TLOU Part 2 is great BECAUSE it's divisive. It's not a feel-good story, and the themes really make you think, regardless of whether you like it or not. No doubt the gameplay and presentation is top-tier, but I adore the game because the narrative brought about so much interesting discussion (outside the inflammatory ones). Neil isn't dumb; he knew it'd rock the boat. He knew it would piss some people off. That's why it's so fascinating to me.
Collin Sparling
2024-12-20 20:38:15 +0000 UTCFirst, this ain't the wild. And second "You guys?" Come on dude. Tf is this? We all pay to support LSM. There's no us or them bs here.
KillwinDie
2024-12-20 20:26:23 +0000 UTCI think it's because despite the hate, TLOU 2 still sold 10 million copies. People are probably going to buy this game in the millions (some of them just so they can hate on it). Until people stop buying their products then it seems natural to assume that it's just a lot of noise. On the other hand concord a new IP from a new developer in a insanely competitive live service landscape. I think pretty obvious the difference between these two situations.
Doug Abaire
2024-12-20 20:21:44 +0000 UTCGreat thumbnail
GameSimp
2024-12-20 20:16:36 +0000 UTCoh I know - hope 'it' grows into a strong independent thinker like his mother-father
tejotl
2024-12-20 20:05:54 +0000 UTCIt’s just confirmation bias. And to be fair to the guys, we all do it.
MomsLikeMe
2024-12-20 19:52:23 +0000 UTCSo…why are negative comments on trailers for other games (I.e Concord) valid, but when it’s a Naughty Dog game it’s, as Dustin puts it, “more bark than bite”? You guys are unusually positive on this game and I’m still not quite sure why you’re looking forward to it other than “it’s a Naughty Dog game.”
yosh_wah
2024-12-20 19:48:15 +0000 UTCDefinitively? Sure. But there are general expectations on what a game will sell when a project is greenlit. Naturally that type of forecasting is done before you put down hundreds of millions for development. And then it’s tweaked over time. But PlayStation wouldn’t plop $300-$400 million in commitments without rigorous projections. They ain’t spraying and praying lol
MomsLikeMe
2024-12-20 19:44:57 +0000 UTC3:23:36 Chris saying it's lame to need representation in a game to enjoy it is the most based take he has ever had. Spits in the face of any group that say they need a character with a certain skin color to be represented in the media they enjoy. "Need a black mermaid to enjoy the movie? You're fucking lame." Chris was on the right the entire time. More takes like this Chris. Keep it up my boy.
Context Should Matter
2024-12-20 19:36:45 +0000 UTCSeems like all the discussion was centred on 'why doesn't she have tits' instead of a more nuanced take that she's seen as an unappealing character design by a lot of people. I doubt everyone who criticised Concord, including yourselves, boiled it down to the lack of tiddies.
Your Boi Nicky V
2024-12-20 19:31:41 +0000 UTCJust to be clear; if I genuinely disliked tlou2, and disagree with naughty dogs current trajectory, I shouldn't be welcome within the LSM community? I thought this audience was fairly balanced but seems like it's okay to slander conservative values constantly with little/no push back. There's loud stupid voices on either side, and I appreciate Colin's willingness to have conversations with anyone, but it's kind of tiresome only hearing one side of why people may not be enthused with naughty dog in it's current state. Never felt less welcome in this community and it bums me out
Khyle Claeys
2024-12-20 19:29:22 +0000 UTCThere’s no way to know that with the current info one way or the other.
Yo mamas so fat shes DEAD!!!!
2024-12-20 19:28:56 +0000 UTCIt’s so weird to see to one of you guys in the wild
Yo mamas so fat shes DEAD!!!!
2024-12-20 19:28:04 +0000 UTCUsing incel unironically 😬
MomsLikeMe
2024-12-20 19:26:11 +0000 UTCI’m a male and breast feed my kids and I couldn’t agree more
CUMSoftware
2024-12-20 19:25:33 +0000 UTCIt’s f’ing hot bro. Everyone wants a buff babe to bottom to. I’m going to be buying it for Big Boss Granny
Big Daddy Took Me Deep And I Don’t Mean To Rapture
2024-12-20 19:19:21 +0000 UTCSaid it last week and Colin agrees, clean up this community. Get these fucking weirdo incels out of here.
Nick Vieu
2024-12-20 19:16:06 +0000 UTCThank you Jason. Jaaaaassoooooon! Jason! Jaaasoooon!
Big Daddy Took Me Deep And I Don’t Mean To Rapture
2024-12-20 19:14:46 +0000 UTCI don’t give any money to Snark Tank. You’ve just made an assumption punk.
Big Daddy Took Me Deep And I Don’t Mean To Rapture
2024-12-20 19:13:08 +0000 UTCSuper excited about addressing the unwelcoming part of the audience. Recently I viewed/listened more on YT side rather than just audio and shit is wild there. Not sure what happened but some quality of discourse was lost or maybe people became too comfortable or too desperate to get their hot takes out there. Merry Christmas Team and enjoy your break!
tejotl
2024-12-20 19:11:36 +0000 UTC“wHy?? JuSt CuZ tHeRe’s bLaCk PeRsOn, & LeSbiAnS, & TrAnS cHiLdReN, & mAsCuLiNe WoMeN, & nO tRaDiTiOnAllY aTtRaCtiVe WoMeN?? CHUD!!
Jimmer
2024-12-20 18:57:50 +0000 UTCI'm so hyped for Intergalactic. Looking forward to the next few years of civil discussion on the game and its eventual gameplay trailers. Thanks for keepin it real LSM!
Morgan
2024-12-20 18:43:11 +0000 UTCAgreed. Personally, I love the story but I see flaws in its structure. I also feel like ND was ignoring the basic fact that people need TIME to empathize with characters. We didn’t have enough time to love Abby like we did Joel and Ellie. I wish they did a Miles Morales-esque Abby game before TLOU2.
Diddy’s Dong Quest
2024-12-20 18:42:54 +0000 UTCHaven't listened yet, but my understanding is that the Naughty Dog hate began really with Left Behind and Uncharted 4 for 3 reasons: 1. They took a beloved character who was a minor and gave her a sexuality that is unconventional to most of the world. 2. Despite it being a great game, Uncharted 4 was definitely bloated and had way too much of Sam, and not enough of the series' characters we had grown to love. 3. Nadine beating up Nate. It wasn't that it was a black woman was beating him up, but that it was a woman that was suddenly beating up this character who had killed countless like it was nothing. There wasn't an outcry when we played as Chloe and had Nadine as a sidekick in Lost Legacy, so leave the racist and sexist allegations aside. It was that they were betraying their own universe and asking us to suspend our disbelief beyond what was reasonable. Factor all of those things into Last of Us 2 having more unconventional elements with their characters' sexualities on top of very unpopular story direction choices for most people. The ire of the audience towards Naughty Dog is definitely overblown but ND certainly isn't innocent in creating this situation for themselves. I don't think anyone is saying their games don't play well, but they're skeptical of narrative directions after the attempted forced sympathy they pulled in Last of Us 2 with their 2 main characters.
Shadi Haddad
2024-12-20 18:33:08 +0000 UTCLuckily I think this game will be out relatively soon. ND said they are not announcing far ahead of time anymore so hopefully they stick with that.
JT
2024-12-20 18:32:19 +0000 UTCThat’s actually my take exactly! lol. Loved the gameplay & presentation, but found the story extremely underwhelming. It’s honestly more about the pacing for me than the story itself. I just couldn’t find myself to care about Abby or her people, and that’s essentially half the game. Looking forward to intergalactic though!
Adam Martinez
2024-12-20 18:30:42 +0000 UTCAlso the girl in the intergalactic trailer is not buff 🤣
JT
2024-12-20 18:30:41 +0000 UTCIsn’t it alluded to that she is shaving her head not to look like the pictures of herself all over the board they show? I can only think of Lev as a biological woman with a shaved head in a ND game. And Lev was not buff…
JT
2024-12-20 18:30:13 +0000 UTCNo update on the landlady situation yet. I will report back my findings soon!
Cyprus Davis
2024-12-20 18:27:48 +0000 UTCOkay I’m curious — what do you think the sales expectations are for the game and how much do you think it will sell?
MomsLikeMe
2024-12-20 18:23:13 +0000 UTCI just picked up tri breaker, the game has really impressive music and the intro had me smiling. I didn’t like twin breaker too much (skill issue tbh) but i think I’m gonna see this one through to the end. Great work Colin and Barry! Edit - I finished the game on normal while listening to this podcast, i enjoyed it much more than the first. I liked how many levels switched up the formula to be like completely different genre. Fun game
Tristan Kimball
2024-12-20 18:10:39 +0000 UTCI was just telling the Wife after the past Giants game - it would be fun to design a custom paper bag to wear on your head to a football game. Great time for a Snoopy Bowl.
four24twenty
2024-12-20 18:05:26 +0000 UTCColin... did you seriously not get that the "who do you think you are?" and "what gives you the right?" Was a huge 'The Office' reference? You call yourself a fan?
Jason
2024-12-20 17:57:33 +0000 UTCWho else had a shaved head?
Adam Barnes
2024-12-20 17:51:45 +0000 UTCPerfect name for the episode
Adam Barnes
2024-12-20 17:50:44 +0000 UTCWrong
Meatball
2024-12-20 17:39:24 +0000 UTCIntergalactic is not going to meet commercial expectations, that’s for sure.
MomsLikeMe
2024-12-20 17:39:00 +0000 UTCIn regard to the "typing game", Colin should check out Epistory by the developer Fishing Cactus who has released multiple games with typing at the heart of the game mechanics. Their games fluctuate in quality, but there could be things to learn from what people thinks work or don't work in their typing games.
Dustin Goncharoff
2024-12-20 17:34:24 +0000 UTCOh boy…. Can’t wait to hear about this topic for the next 3 years 🤣. On a real note, if anybody here thinks TLOU2 had a bad story- okay that’s fair. But. If anybody acts like TLOU2 isn’t an outstanding video game from a gameplay or presentation point of view- you’re crazy.
Diddy’s Dong Quest
2024-12-20 17:32:22 +0000 UTCI obviously haven't listened yet and these comments are sure to be wild but are we really going to act like the continual use of muscular women and women with shaved heads in Naughty Dog games isn't weird at all? There's not a pattern? It's all coincidence? Fuckin doubt.
OCEL0T
2024-12-20 17:25:18 +0000 UTCBuckle up!
Dreamed about Ronald McDonald with a bowl cut frowning in black and white, woke up cackling
2024-12-20 17:20:43 +0000 UTCThe title alone lets me know the comments section will be wild
ajwhite
2024-12-20 17:15:26 +0000 UTCBest title of all time
Mattveego
2024-12-20 17:09:09 +0000 UTCHey Colin, don’t forget to send me my Christmas bonus. You forgot to send it last year. Thanks.
Michael Mashpotato
2024-12-20 17:07:40 +0000 UTCBanger thumbnail lmao
Breno Bezerra Bluhm
2024-12-20 17:05:37 +0000 UTCHappy Holidays, LSM Crew! Thankful for you guys, hope you have a wonderful break
Joe Perez
2024-12-20 17:03:57 +0000 UTCHave a lovely holiday break, lads! Thanks for the constant source of news and entertainment. I appreciate LSM so much.
Meatball
2024-12-20 17:02:12 +0000 UTC
