"Why is the Pinup Poll going away?"
Added 2020-11-24 19:19:03 +0000 UTCAs you’ve seen over the past few months, the Pinup Poll contestant roster has been getting smaller and smaller, with no characters replacing the winners. Now I’d like to explain why.
It was too slow, and it felt like a side-track...
Although the poll, was fun to set up and (I hope) fun to vote in, it was slow, especially if a character wasn’t as popular as the others.
While it was nice to see which characters would shoot straight to the top, versus which characters would take more time to make it there, the pinup poll was awful at catching flash-in-the-pan characters that would pop up within the fandom (such as Belladonna, or even Goat-Luci from Helltaker).
I’d still like to draw these characters for you, but rather than concern myself with the Pinup Poll, I'd rather have the time do them for my own pleasure, or sketch something specific for a Patron if they use the Suggestion Board..
For the primary content, I’d like to focus less on random pinups, and more on comic/vignette-style storytelling.
This would mean more focused content for you involving “deeper” character explorations (hurr-hurr).
Things would also be a bit less random this way. but hopefully I'd still still doodle some sketches for you all on the side!).
There are several ways I can go about doing this- I can either do comics as I’ve always done, alongside vignette projects similar to Breeding Boudoir and Digitamed, or I could maybe try tackling-
...A possible game?
As you can see in the main image, I’ve been doing game mockups in the background, figuring out the scale and type of game I’d make if I were to go ahead with the project.
I’ve always wanted to make a game, but until recently it’s always been just a pipe dream of mine that I never thought would be a reality. The fine folks over at Kincaid have been an inspiration for me as of late and while it seems like it would be a challenge, I think it might be worth giving a shot! At best, I get an interesting new vehicle with which to show my art and tell stories. At worst, I gain experience at doing something that is universally agreed to be extremely difficult.
As you can see, the game’s initial concept involves a Schmup-type game with Maeko as the main lead in her fighter-ship. I’m also toying with the idea of a “hub” area that you can use to upgrade your ship and “interact” with other characters aboard your ship.
This isn’t an official announcement of a game, I’m just wondering what your thoughts on it were.
You see, if I were to make the game, I suspect it would take up most of my time, meaning I would barely have time to make a comic on the side, much less do request sketches. This Patreon would essentially pivot to being about game creation and the main comic, with everything else taking a back seat.
Let me know your thoughts! Would you stick around if I switched to game creation, or would you rather I just keep drawing comics and image sets?
In any case, the final reason for the Pinup Poll disappearing is...
“Completions” are a success!
Finally, thanks to you all the Completion scheme has been so verysuccessful and popular that I’d like to make it a permanent fixture as part of my Patreon. If you see any of the “Sketch Pile” sketches you like, I’ll be glad to finish it for you! The prices for these Completions will range from $250to $350, depending on how many characters and details are involved.
I know this is a slight price increase from when I first introduced the service, but I think this is warranted due to its popularity.
If I ever reach the end of the Completion queue, then we’ll switch to a simplevote to figure out which sketch I should finish that month (if any). In that case, I would pick the options according to my personal favorites.
I know this Patreon has seen a lot of changes over the years, and change may be uncomfortable for some of you, but I promise that I’m doing my best to keep this Patreon fun and engaging for both of us!
For now, you can still suggest ideas involving your favorite characters using the SUGGESTION FORM . Thanks so much for your patience and support everyone- stay tuned!
Comments
JB was the second person I asked about game creation and he said something to the effect of "Don't join me in this hellscape...save yourself!" I know he has experience with making games from his time before he was a furry artist and even he was trying his best to warn me off it. It feels bad to give up before I've even tried but at the same time there are so many voices warning me against it I can't deny that they probably have a point, especially for someone with absolutely no experience making games! The game would have been a combination of side scroller and platformer as you see in the title image, with you returning to your ship after the schmup missions were done to interact with the crew. I hadn't given any thought to distribution, since it's way too early for such things at this point. I'm glad you're cool with me doing away the Pinup Poll in any case!
Scappo
2020-11-30 21:38:11 +0000 UTCOh dear... I was thinking that a schmup type game wouldn't be as involved or as time consuming as a visual novel or even a beat-em up type game since all that would be animated would be the ships and bosses. I also had no intention of tackling the thing alone! I have very little coding experience so if I chose to pursue the project I'd hire at least a coder, musician(s) and probably some more help alongside them. Then again, trying to herd talent in this fandom is genuinely like herding cats from hundreds of miles away, so I see your point. You've certainly given me a lot to think about- so thanks for your input!
Scappo
2020-11-30 21:31:20 +0000 UTCAs a longtime player, I'm all for seeing a game of your ideas come to life! However after skimming the comments I can see that the idea of you shifting your focus on creating a game rather than focusing on making adult furry art is a big concern. I would highly recommend you make a very brief prototype first on the side as a sort of pitch to your friends and audience. As for the pin-up poll removal, I felt that it was something that requires a long time investment and high tier enrollment to have one's vote matter, and even then that is highly dependent on the demand of the other voters competing with each other. I think it may be much better for your business if your patrons are willing to pay you to complete their sketch because at least they can buy their requested characters which raising the price would be ideal to deter a very high workflow at a moderate price. Regardless what you do, I'm up to see what you have planned whether it's a flavor-of-the-month character or to see more of your vast characters!
RisqueRaptor
2020-11-28 07:29:06 +0000 UTCOkay, yeah misread some of the post so my bad. Anyways though, this all sounds pretty good good, especially moving forward without the poll. And also, good call on the vignette ideas. Sounds safer than allowing Pharaohs to decide what gets on a poll, though I might have already thought you would treat it like the suggestions and be very particular about what gets a poll, but I’m just spouting nonsense now. Whatever way you choose to do regarding vignettes (seriously looking forward to more of them) just make sure it’s what you feel is best for you.
ProtoPhone
2020-11-27 15:34:51 +0000 UTCMaking a game is a pretty interesting idea. Honestly I couldn't even imagine that you decide to do this.)) Well, I hope you know what you do, because, as I heard, that's a pretty difficult business. If I were you I would take some advices from JB. I bet he has a very rich experience after working on Gunbunny. And I have some questions about new project. Will it be a side-scroller or platformer? Are you going to make a commercial product or it will be just a game for fans with 1-2 levels? How do you plan to distribute the game? Steam maybe? Anyway, I'm on board!)) As for the Pinup Poll, I am ready to transfer the right to choose the characters in your own hands. Anyway, I don't know almost any of the characters that you usually add to the list, hehe.)) I like your style, so I will be glad seeing all the things you make.
Alexey Belovolsky
2020-11-27 04:47:17 +0000 UTCAs cool as a game would sound, I’m with most of the people here in saying now might not be the best time to begin development on one; I know enough about it to know thats its extremely time consuming. On the other hand, I totally understand why the pinup poll is going away. It was too easily swayed whenever a popular character showed up and would get vote bombed, but it was great to see some good characters brought to life with your art! Keep up the fantastic work, and do what you feel is right! :)
TenoPlaya
2020-11-26 02:03:59 +0000 UTCI used to subscribe to one called Luvbites, by a bunch of contributors. It petered out a couple of years ago and I think partly what killed it was their visual novel, which seemed to soak much of the teams time. It updated slowly and there wasn't much other content coming out concurrently to justify the subscription price. And the finished product... well you could tell its ambition exceeded it reach, they only had one musical track which only played in certain scenes and didn't necessarily fit the mood. They had to recycle their image assets which didn't quite fit the dialogue. It was passable, it wasn't glitchy or broken. It just wasn't worth their effort and an inefficient delivery of content. Then there's Jasonafex's projects like Bare Back Streets; notorious for being buggy, poorly optimized and for being stuck in development hell for years. That's a good case in point of what can go wrong when you don't have lots of programming Xp. Granted he has produced something, like Amorous, but only after a huge investment of time, money and lots of disgruntled patrons. And note that in both these cases had a team of people working on them. Bottom line is: building games is very complicated, time consuming and nigh-impossible for one man if you don't know what your doing. You will likely need lots of outside expertise and assets. And even something a relatively simple as a visual novel, if your trying to tell a story with it, could still be an unexpectedly slow and arduous way of delivering that content.
Lashout
2020-11-26 00:33:06 +0000 UTCAllright! If you have questions about renpy i'll try to answer them.
max72590
2020-11-25 20:03:15 +0000 UTCA visual novel would be much more suited to tell a story. Something focused on world building and character interaction seems more appropriate in my opinion, tho idk what it would look on the gameplay side of things.
Synariel
2020-11-25 17:45:56 +0000 UTCI think it'd be funny to have like, a 3-second loop of some sort of slapstick. The one that comes to mind right now is Kaila slapping Jasper on the side of his head, or maybe a tear drop appear on the side of a character's face (anime style). Yeah, the suggestion box works better. Also being able to submit questions to the cast of your comics makes it more interactive.
James Corck
2020-11-25 14:52:55 +0000 UTCThanks for your vote of support! I'm glad you see my reasoning behind eliminating the poll and replacing it with other things <3
Scappo
2020-11-25 14:47:03 +0000 UTCHrm- that's a good idea! Making little pixelart comic panels might be a fun exercise and depending on the context I could even animate them ^_^. What would be the content of these 3-second loops, do you think? Again, I'm glad you see my point of view when it comes to the Pinup Poll!
Scappo
2020-11-25 14:44:30 +0000 UTCI'm glad you understand where I'm coming from with the Pinup Poll ^_^! I also see your point about the game not being able to tell as much of a story as comics and illustrations, but I was hoping the game would supplement those comics and illustrations by adding something that's interactive to the mix! Maybe something along the lines of a visual novel like what Max72590 suggested above would be more suited to accompany the comics?
Scappo
2020-11-25 14:42:42 +0000 UTCI'm glad you see my point regarding the Pinup Poll! As I said in the post, the Completions are gonna be taking the place of the Pinup Poll, and if I hit the end of the Completion queue, I'll choose my favorite sketches and ask you all to vote among those. I can't promise I'll do more requests than I've already been doing, since I'll be working on comics alongside vignettes which won't leave too much time for side requests, but I'll do my best to do at least 3 per month like I've been doing so far. I'll hold on to the game idea, but it's one of those things where I think you've gotta go in all at once or not at all, otherwise I'll just be wasting the "team"s time when they could be working with other artists that are ready to go full steam right now, instead of doing a "slow burn". I'd be very careful about letting Pharaohs pitch ideas for the vignettes. I don't wanna end up working on an idea I don't like simply because it got a lot of votes. I think I'd rather come up with the ideas myself, and pitch them at the Pharaohs to see if it clicks/ needs modification.
Scappo
2020-11-25 14:36:58 +0000 UTCMaeko is definitely gonna be a part of the next comic so you don't have to worry about that! I've also been chatting with the fellas over at Kincaid as well as a few other people in my circle that have experience with game creation. Half of them say to go for it and the other half are begging me not to do it like I'm standing on some precipice ready to jump XD!
Scappo
2020-11-25 14:08:26 +0000 UTCMy thinking was that the game would supplement the art that I would do for the Patreon, but what other Patron campaigns can you provide as examples that have failed game attempts? I'm just curious!
Scappo
2020-11-25 14:06:11 +0000 UTCThanks for the suggestion! I'll download "Night with Laverne" and give it a shot <3
Scappo
2020-11-25 14:04:23 +0000 UTCThanks for your input and your support! I really do value posts like this because it lets me know where your priorities lie and it helps me to make my decision!
Scappo
2020-11-25 14:01:27 +0000 UTCI know very little about game development, so I don't think I'm qualified to make any comments there, beyond that if you made this game, I would very likely play it :) A bit sad to see the Pinup Poll go away, but you have a valid reason. And more comics/vignettes would definitely be cool.
Tygon Panthera
2020-11-25 03:27:13 +0000 UTCI will echo the voice of some other Patrons when I say I am concerned about you tackling an entire videogame all on your own. While the idea sounds neat, either have a bigger team to help you with it or don't do it at all. However, the pixel art you've got going on there is actually pretty neat. So as to not let it go to waste, you could make simple comic panels or comic strips in this style, or if you're feeling brave and with time, short animations in between comics (short, like 3 second loops). Besides that, I like that the pin up poll is going away because it was starting to get a bit repetitive. It's good that you're changing things around.
James Corck
2020-11-25 02:32:29 +0000 UTCOk! Still with the pandemic banding together for a game jam might have to wait a bit. If you really REALLY wish to do a small game project i would suggest for something like a short and linear VN for starters, it's a good blend to show your art (like your comics) and an easy game project. RenPy is a free vn engine and pretty easy to use (i've used it previously and with a few tutorials you can do the basics) if you wanna take a look at it, you can find other vn done with it like "Night with Laverne". Still as several comments pointed out it will be time consuming, specially if you do everything yourself. That's my two cents, didn't want to leave you without at least an alternative.
max72590
2020-11-24 22:47:25 +0000 UTCIdk, bit sad to see the poll go but i see where you come from and agree with your reasoning. In the end this is a good decision if it frees you up to draw more comics or picture series or suggestions. Concerning the game, idk. It seems like a real time sink and a lot of those projects crash and burn without showing much for the efforts invested. Also, even if successful, it will only be a schmup without much replayability and i feel that stories and characters are better explored in writing and drawing rather than a rather constricted gameplay loop. But in the end, if you choose to invest in a game, i'll be curious to see what the result will be and i'll stick along.
Synariel
2020-11-24 22:21:18 +0000 UTCok, there is one character I like to see get drawn, but I'll make that suggestion later on :)
Caeser
2020-11-24 22:12:25 +0000 UTCThanks for the suggestions! If I do go ahead with it I'll definitely follow this advice <3
Scappo
2020-11-24 21:55:22 +0000 UTCThat's correct! I can't promise I'll do EVERY suggestion that rolls through the box, but as long as it's not an OC belonging to the person making the suggestion it will at least be considered :).
Scappo
2020-11-24 21:51:37 +0000 UTCMik will still get drawn when she wins! The Pinup Poll isn't going away immediately, and I'll still draw characters from the Suggestion Pool. Also to my memory I've never "cancelled" the Pinup poll, not even once. I pride myself on never missing it once since I introduced it!
Scappo
2020-11-24 21:49:53 +0000 UTCOkay, let’s put my two cents out there. First of all, fully agree with your decision to get rid of the poll. It was fun but I got turned off having to wait for the characters I requested get chosen for a full pinup. Maybe choose something from the requests to do a full pinup. Heck, you won’t have to wait to start working on them and adjust and be pushed back when there’s a vote bomb. Maybe even do a few more requests done than usual a month. Now for a game, I say kinda keep it on the slow and steady track. It’ll be a lot of work even with a team. What I recommend, start fixing up and putting together some key concepts, and find a tea for this and get this going full steam. Not right now because it’s a whole ton, but keep the idea around for later. Finally, the vignette series such as Breeding Boudoir, I really would like to see more of these, and glad to hear you want to do more of them. Might I suggest that like that one, maybe Pharaohs be allowed to pitch ideas for them and a vote for which one is done?
ProtoPhone
2020-11-24 21:42:30 +0000 UTCI'm primarily here for your art, drawings and sketches and seeing you work your absolute magic that you draw so well here. Personally I am not interested in a game, especially if it puts most other content on hold while and possibly after development of the project. I think a comic with Maeko could be even more immersive worldbuilding than a game. Games development can be full of unexpected extra work, bugs and problems that complicate working on the project. Then again talking to indie devs about making games could prove very helpful and avoid common problems in making a game.
Sigma Hyena
2020-11-24 21:00:12 +0000 UTCI'd steer clear of a game. As you acknowledged it will take up the bulk of your time. But aside from that, the results will probably be much more scant and underwhelming (and buggy) than you envisioned. I've seen it happen in other patron campaigns. There are just so many assets you need to make it worth while, even if its something as simple as an interactive visual novel. The time invested often isn't worth what you get at the end.
Lashout
2020-11-24 20:56:31 +0000 UTCi'm ok with the patreon changes. About the game, as many people have said, it will take a lot of work. I have done a few games, for game jams and even a small project, they will eat a lot of your time and sometimes can be very frustrating. I don't want to discourage you, if it's your first game project i'd recommend to start with a very simple idea with a few people and focus on that, once you're done with that think about expanding it. It's very easy to start thinking features and increase the scope of your idea but that only leads to more work and frustration. My other recomendation is to find a group of friends, participate in a game jam to have first hand experience of what you'll need and the workflow.
max72590
2020-11-24 20:50:04 +0000 UTCUnderstandable Scappo; so let me get this straight, if we want a certain character drawn, all we have to do is use the suggestion box to put in our requests?
Caeser
2020-11-24 20:46:45 +0000 UTCI am also not interest in the game.
Prawn
2020-11-24 20:28:42 +0000 UTCI'm not very interested in the game, to be honest :) I totally understand why you'd want to do it, but I get the most out of your art. Even if you were to make a game, it would be months and months of work for you if not years, and then ... I'd play it once and probably give up 25% through because its too hard for me ;) But you gotta do what's interesting to you and what your heart desires so I'll keep supporting as long as at least some art comes of it :)
MountainGoat
2020-11-24 20:10:02 +0000 UTCI'd rather not go toward a game. It sounds fun upon completion, but I feel like it would be a lot of time and effort. At least, that's my sense. If you're really wishing you do that, I won't complain of course. I will miss the pinup poll. One of my favorite things about your patreon was that it had a mix of your characters and random, external characters. (Plus Mik was finally getting close to the top haha). But, I can understand why you'd rather focus on more specific stuff. I would have liked to see you occasionally cancel the monthly poll for those flash in the pan characters. I think you may have at some point actually so you probably know what I'm talking about. At any rate, I'll roll with whatever happens. All the best!
Matthew Colten
2020-11-24 19:54:52 +0000 UTCWhile it's a cool idea, I am heavily against the game idea. Simple reason: it's a MONSTROUS amount of work, even if all you're doing is the visuals. I've seen people try to make a game on a lark, and some that were deadly serious about it, all get buried by all of the effort involved. Not saying you can't do it, just that from watching (and doing a little coding on the side) it'd be something that could easily burn you out.
Vawlkus
2020-11-24 19:51:28 +0000 UTC
