Help! Lore Question!

I know this is way late, but I recently read the first book of the Gaunt's Ghosts series. In that book, an astropath recieves a very important message and relays it to another astropath, before dying while under attack (early in the book, not really a spoiler) This being the case, a long distance transmission could be passed along from astropath to astropath, assuming that the distance is too far for just one.

By that mean - ship captain oder-> astropath ->far distance message->astropath receives and translates->ship captain listens to order transfers to destination via bridge comms officer->short distance (within a lightminutd) message to squad in action - executes order. In a matter of minutes from the first moment of voicing the order

Dolthar Sodjath

In terms of this distance it depends on the priority of the message. If it should be as fast as possible. I mean... all other means of kmperial tech would take years to transmit the message thus far - so go for astropaths^^

Dolthar Sodjath

Please tell me how to contact the developer?

I am sure this has been answered already, buy any type of conventional means of communication is only going to travel @ light speed. Since astropathy is warped based it can travel faster than the laws of physics, thus always the fastest form of comms.

The PHAROS was an obscure form of instantaneous communication (and under special circumstances, transportation) that appeared in a couple books in the Horus Heresy series. ****** https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Pharos

7 hours to get message to Pluto and 7 hours for the response. Do you mean you’ll be dead from an attack, of from old age?

Just FYI, I made a TVdatabase listing for Astartes so people can track it via TVtime. https://www.thetvdb.com/series/astartes

LiamNL

I think they usually talk vox to vox within a system. That's a good question though, if it travels at light speed it could take minutes to reach you

I remember reading about vox-casting in the books. https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Vox-caster https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/7r9423/imperial_communications/ that reddit post is a rabbit hole

There is 3 function in patreon : share, follow and report the creator. I tried my best to report you. I mean, c'mon. Who wouldn't report a work like that. It is too amazing and stunning. Nobody can withstand that. But there isn't any option for "report the creator because he is too amazing". So i shared and follow.

if they have astropaths they'll probably make use of them. Apart from that it comes down to the author and how much they want to make technical limitations a cornerstone of the story.

James

Some powerful psyker, like a very talented Space Marine Librarian can communicate in emergency case, or when it is required. Like a Chief Librarian. For example: Tigurius, Chief Librarian of the Ultramarine Chapter can do this sort of extrasystem psy communication.

If you would like a in-depth view into the life of a astropath, a book named "The outcast dead" in the horus heresy series has you follow one around! (while being abducted by space marines, its a very good book imo).

This is not The choir you are looking for 😉

I'm a little late to this conversation and I feel like the things that I am adding might already be covered but I'll try to put my knowledge in nonetheless. Astrotelepaths is your only real means of extremely long distance communication. Without these psykers communication would not be possible and without the emperor these psykers would not be possible. This is also the reason why the Imperium would collapse without the emperor. Because these psykers send their messages through the warp the messages are subject to similar conditions as warp travel. Astrotelepaths can also only message to others of their kind. Although I am pretty sure Librarians can send out similar messages and even receive them from Astrotelepaths. If this is the form of communication you're looking for I would recommend reading up on the Astropathic Choir.

I'm afraid that's a misunderstanding on your part. Temperature changes, such as hoarfrost, are just one of many types of psychic phenomena that can result from a psyker using their powers, and not all uses of psychic powers result in phenomena.

it's great to have somone really put in the effort like you are.

MrCultist

Thank you all for the input guys! I had a decent idea before but damn, communication in 40k sounds like a pain! With everyone's combined knowledge I should be able to make sure I don't break any rules :D

Astartes

As far as I know ship to ship vox hailers is basically a radio or something comparable. Same as we have now but more advanced which would put transmission speed no faster than light speed as radio waves are a kind of electromagnetic radiation. So transmission speed would be around 300,000 km per second. Applying that to our solar system mars is 54.6 million km away so it would take 3 mins about to get a message from there but Pluto is 7.5 billion km away so you'll be dead by the time you get a reply. Lore wise I have never heard of a governor calling someone up on the phone and just talking across 2 planetary bodies they seem to know what's going on in system when a ship warps in but that seems to be due to ship auger arrays which in more scanning equipment than coms. There are many books however that have had small servitor controlled drones that can repeat important messages on a system's edge (like your entering Ultamar home of the Smurf's enjoy your stay, or OMG everyone is dead if you hear this run). Other than that the only faster than light communication is psyker stuff as far as I know.

incognito

When I need more lore info I usually check the Lexicanum as a canon-only source: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vox-caster

Rico da Rooster

That sums it up as far as i know!

TK

A little off topic, but I noticed in 4 parts a small omission that while the psyker was holding the space marines, the temperature around did not change. Because the psyker lets the warp force into the world and the temperature changes, the metal is covered with frost and steam comes from the mouth and so on, I hope in the future you will take this into account. Thank you very much for the chic videos.

Vox is like radio, so you can calculate the speed of it. Also, they can be intercepted as they are waves. What many of you don't take into consideration, is the type of psyker, who is communicating. There is great difference between one average astropath, several astropaths, a superior astropath, SM librarian, or an inquisitor. The higher the skill of the psyker is and the more numerous they are, the faster and more reliable astropathic communication will be. Also you need to know, where the receiver is. So if there is an imperial battlegroup, coming to reinforce a planetary blockade, astropathic communication, from the local Mandeville point is much faster, than vox. You know where the planet is, and military grade astropath are better than the ones on commercial vessels.

Vox traffic takes hours to reach either side of a system. Usually 2 to 4. However the holographic transmissions are instant and can reach one side of the system to the other. However they can be reliablely interupted or listened in on and are very unreliable with any sort of disturbance such as nearby tyanids or warp craft. This is stated matter of factly in the devestation of baal which im currently reading so this is current lore.

Pretty sure the only reliable/widespread method of interstellar communication in the Imperium is using Astropaths/other psykers. In-system, there are other methods of communication more or less like radio. Depending on the distance, there's significant delay, as far as I know the fastest they can go is speed of light. Assuming the two ships are some 50 AU from the center at the opposite sides of the system, the signal takes around 14 hours at the speed of light. Reddits 40klore subreddit is really good for questions like this, I'm sure they'd gladly help with any further lore questions.

In system, Vox. Further than that, Astropaths. Unless youre involving Rogue Traders, Inquisitors, or the Mechanicus. Then who knows, you could justify a lot.

I'm fairly certain that Vox systems, which is basically just radio, would be okay for two ships in the same system, it would take minutes to hours depending on where the ships are in relation to one another, but an Astropath, or any psyker for that matter, would be much faster, however Vox can leave less room for interpretation as psychic messages don't send words but images and concepts. Vox communications between systems would be highly unfeasible as it would take years to send a message, when an Astropath could take minutes or a ship could take days to weeks at best.

NotJacob

Hey, so after listening to the Audiobook Solar War and also Praetorian of Dorn, it takes 8 hours for a vox signal to reach from Terra to Pluto. Going by that calculation, I'd guesstimate around 20 to 24 hours for opposite ends of our Solar System. This is, as you said, the more conventional way of sending messages, rather than astropath. Hope this helps!

Oliver Meakin

They go either light speed, or use the warp through astropaths, it is possible the death of the linked psykers, could be felt through the warp by another psyker who knew them fairly well. As the death of the psykers could be a sort of astropathic message of itself. But should the enemies be about to respond shortly, an astroid field is an ideal place to hide a cold running ship.

Andreas Bundgaard Fønss

Quote from https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Astropaths Astral Telepathy: ".......This process is not instantaneous. However, it is considerably faster than Warp travel -- an astropathic signal will cross a solar system in moments, across a subsector in solar hours, a sector in solar days and, if strong enough, a Segmentum in weeks and so on...."

Vox-communicators is basically an Imperial version of radio communication and suffice to pass messages amongst the cities of one world yet have almost no use beyond the bounds of the planet's surface. Such devices require many Terran years for their signal to reach other planets of a star system. Thus the Imperium is forced to rely upon long range communication by phychic means.

As Alan said, communication that isn't from an Astropath is capped at light speed and so would have a longer delay the further you were.

MrCultist

"The perils of Warp travel ensure that human or Servitor messengers are just as unreliable and potentially as slow as radio or other electromagnetic wave communications." It looks like curriers, using warp travel, are some times used. I figured as much.

Nevev

To put it this way, Astropathic Communication is incredibly unreliable, but in the Imperium, It's the only reliable way to send messages farther than a Star System away. Everything else is just plot waved away with Vox.

Maxxumus

In the fluff it seems to imply that in 40k most communications are fixed at light speed like modern communications It takes light 8 min to move between the sun and earth 5 hours for light to span the sun to pluto (a solar system) The nearest star to earth is Alpha Centauri which would take light 4.3 years to reach A typical 40k sector is about 200 light years across for reference. It seems astropath commuincation is critical to real time communications at an interstellar level. However, in the fluff they do talk about astropaths being able to route data packets and the like so it might not take too many astropaths to connect a star system. Instead of a relaying messages like a game of telephone, they might act like a living internet router. There might be more 40k tech like quantum entanglement communicators but they would likely be only in the hands of the mechanicus or very high ranking Imperial folk

Alan

In the book 'Rynn's World' the Crimson Fists used astropathic communication to coordinate with an Imperial armada on the edge of the system. Vox Coms were only used when the fleet engaged the orcs in orbit (as far as I remember).

Seth

mmm... For conventional Vox systems, you're looking at upwards of several hours delay each way for communication, less than ideal for a potentially rapidly developing military scenario. However Non-astropath psykers, if they are powerful enough, well trained and disciplined, such as an Astartes Librarian or a Primaris Psyker equivalent should be able to, at the very least, send/receive near instantaneous Telepathic communications over interplanetary distances, albeit with a degree of stress/risk, such communications would most likely be short, so would likely use some form of brevity codes, or simple GO/NO-GO signals.

Nimrod009

From my understanding, standard communication is limited to modern communication at present. Messages can be sent across the Galaxy, but can take hours or days to reach it's destination and subject to degradation with all the other signals and ships. Not to mention not very secure.

Also the audiobook "sword of truth" has 2 Astartes conversing over vox whilst trying not to get detected whilst on 2 different ships. Meaning that Astartes can pick up low level transmissions direct to there suits without any trouble

Seems like everyone is giving good advice but if you needed more try "vaults of Terra" "arch Warhammer" "40k theories" YouTube channels. Also in the book/audio book "face of treachery" in the "age of darkness" series of the Horus heresy the raven guard are able to receive vox transmissions from the planet of Istvan 5 from the edge of the system and the world eaters also receive vox transmissions from the planet whilst hunting at the outer edges. As for speed I would definitely go with what people are saying about using radio wave speeds. Also in book/audiobook of "wolf at the door" it also shows vox transmissions between the planet and ships in orbit whilst they are engaged in a void battle and half to planet is bathed in radiation which should cause some interface so ship to ship would be no problem.

There's a third method that noone seems to have mentioned up to now: Space Marine Librarians are also capable of medium-range telepathy for staying in secure contact with their Battle-Brothers. One of the ranks of Librarian is "Epistolary" - i.e. sends letters! However, as others have mentioned in other comments you really only need astropaths for interstellar communications. In-system, regular technological communicators function fine and appear to be effectively instantaneous. Like most things in 40k they never really go into the science behind it but there are many instances of people speaking over interplanetary distances and there are never problems with time-lag. In any case, if your Astartes on the rebel ship need to broadcast a "mission accomplished!" (or a "help help send reinforcements!") message to the Cobra destroyer that they set off from they don't really need any special kit to do it, that's perfectly acceptable.

RhoJavier

Shouldn't make a difference if you use a radio or a laser, since both travel with the speed of light. The only advantage would be the amount of data that can be transmitted (in other word the down- and upstream). So a laser (and line of sight) would probably required for a holo communication?

Seth

Astropaths can be used to communicate across any distance. The question is one of priority. When the Astropathic Choir is in use it can only send. The choir can also only send to one destination at a time, often due the nature of Astropathic Communication, A series of abstract visions and obscure poetic songs sung across the void, the communication needs to be sent twice or even three times before it is understood. The problem lies in translating plain text communications into the abstract concepts used by choirs, its why the Imperium still uses vox communication. Vox communications can be used for any distance in realspace but they are limited by speed of light. Vox communication is also used for complex data transmission like video or schematics etc that sort of thing doesnt usually translate well through Astropathic choirs.

Brian Beard

https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Astropaths It should be astrophatic communication. In the same solar system should be instant except there is any warp distorsion

Might be wrong, but since radio signals travel with a fixed speed, it shouldn't matter how advanced your radio is, you could only increase the quality and range of the signal but not decrease the delay. So, for Vox communication to travel across a whole system, it should take it in the 41st millennium as long as it would nowadays.

Seth

Vox communications seem to operate similarly to radio communications, this would be used for ground forces in a vicinity. Not much lore exists regarding this but likely it is used for short range communication, as radio waves travel at the speed of light meaning that over massive distances it would be impractical to use for communications between distances light years apart. More than likely urgent communications use Astropaths, either between ships out of system or several light years apart or in emergencies when communications need to be reached. But for communications around a planet it would use low end tech to do it.

They would likely still use astropaths to communicate even over such relatively short distances, but as far as I know, they would be able to communicate pretty much instantaneously as in various novels, games etc. ships are able to communicate via hologram, with those further away from the ship we have the POV from suffering from more static interference which says to me they can communicate. They sense one another with auspex arrays and communicate over vox networks.

Fix within systems, although it varies on range across system astro close vox com (check audio solar wars and last chapter of blood in the machine )

Bakery Shack

Going by Dawn of War II, in-sector communications are feasible via some form of vox. The Litany of Fury and other Battle Barges were able to communicate with the strike team from across the sector, which consisted of multiple star systems. Anything beyond that would require, I believe, an Astropath.

RelicArts

very interesting question as far as i know the ships in system can see one another on Radar (Ospects in lore) and can can talk over coms From ship to ship using powerful tec, not all ships would have it but important ships would. there is also for well equipped ships have holo grams of the speaker two way. but these can have a large amount of interference if they are any further convoy range. a good example of long range communication is in the Book Corax: Lord of Shadows: Primarchs where he uses coms from the edge of the system to multiple ships and planets though this was from a flag ship of the Raven Guard it confirms there is tec that can communicate in real time in system

When the Tyranids hit planet Tyran noone in the system was informed because they block astropaths but if Vox was an option this would not make sense I think.

Vox based communication is the only alternative for ship communications. limited by the speed of light. A round trip from the Sun to Pluto (the edge of our solar system.) Takes approximately 11 hours. This would simulate how long a single communique would take to go from one end of the solar system to the other. Astropaths are rendered near useless in the presence of warp storms and the Shadow in the Warp produced by an impending Tyranid invasion. With Astropaths, communication is instant through the Warp, but the message received is images, words, emotions that must be interpreted.

Gavir

Cross system communication would be best handled by Astropaths. Vox is closer to a modern radio system, where you're limited by the speed of light.

Vox would operate the same as all current direct los electromagnetic comms do. Meaning the vox would be scrambled if something was blocking direct LOS, like a planet. It’s very likely the imperium would utilise Vox relay networks (much like a modern military), so your message could be routed through a network of vox units (like other ships, towers on planets or satellites etc). But for anything essentially further than line of site, I assume it’d be astropathic. Or, I would assume the imperium would have some sort of network (much like our internet) that would allow data messages to be sent long distance

Hey, there is a paragraph in Praetorian of Dorn that says a signal from the far outskirts of the system would take several hours to reach Terra. This is consistant with the speed of radio-waves, taking 13'ish hours to travel across the diameter of the solar system. (185000km/s across 9.9 billion km)

PunchieCWG

Yeah, I reckon voxcasts would be used from surface to orbit, and non-urgent systemwide transmissions. Something urgent would probably be sent by astropathic choir to cut down on latency

CMR

Sorry for clarity, communications within the same solar system are pretty easy with ship sized vox. No issues without sabotage or intervening planetary bodies.

I've read in a horus heresy book about using laser bursts for dats transfer used in system for communication. However I cannot remember the novel title.

Vox is used for Standard communications in system. The astropathic choir Is used for Extreme range Communique.

You ask a hard question my good Sir. In most cases when "In System" communication is covered in the various media (games, books, etc) they have access to near instantaneous Vox and Holo connectivity. Now, there are instances in which some Black Library writers have put delayed connections in their books, and even then it was mere seconds at most for long distance coverage.

Dark_Psyker

vox casters are an actual ship upgrade in rogue trader. they are basically used to blast on all frequencies your hate mail to confuse the enemy and disrupt communications

Bullet

Vox is within a single solar system. Astropaths anywhere past that. For really far calls, like beyond a segmentum, they need to daisy chain astropaths and the message becomes very unreliable: temporally and clarity wise. One of the main story points in the Heresy is because Magnus needs to pull super powerful long range telepathy and it causes incredible damage; all because there was no other way to get a message to Terra within a few weeks.

Arch Warhammer is the better option

Curtis

In system it would be like the radio on a naval ship, except scaled up and gothic looking. :)

Vox (40k super radio) communications over that distance is possible but has some lag time astropath choirs are used for superluminal comms such as from system to system

Gravekeeper916

So it takes about ~4.5 hours for a conventional radio signal to reach Pluto from Earth. Worst case, oppposite ends of the solar system say double it at ~9 hours + whatever extra distance I haven't factored in.

Adam Bishop

My understanding was Vox casters would be used for communications on planets, and to ships in orbit, but any distances greater (planet to planet) astropaths would be used.

Ezekyil

From the H.H. books I've been reading astropaths are commonly used as short ranged as planet to planet in system, but I've heard vox being used as far as system wide.

Cory Dessauer

Typically the stories have the primarchs go straight to the astropaths if their communication target isn’t relatively close relative to the fleet or planets. There’s references of them needing astropaths if the distances is “ a few days out”

In a system would be basic vox casters, though vastly up scaled for ship use. I think.

Geeko170

Not a full answer, but I believe that sub-interstellar communications would be vox-based? That seems to make sense.

Armo

This is a question for Luetin! ;)

Amago Vazquinho