Patreon, R&P Q&A #255

reminds me of Archwinger. https://www.rianstone.com/blog/2018/11/3/what-do-you-do-when-a-girl-cries Yeah, stfu is much better than trying to fix it. It's not your job to keep the peace(Glover). There's also controlling the flow of information which was mentioned in the video and there's a link in the live chat. Yeah, ignore the text, and wait for her to bring it up. When my wife brought it up, it caught me off guard, I said I'd think about it. The next day, when she brought it up again, I said, I thought about it and NO. You seem to be headed in a good direction. If you want Rian to comment on it you'll have to post before the video. I'll frequently take notes through out the week and edit them from time to time. The reports are for you. When Rian posts the link it's already ready to go.

Op Sec

I appreciated the feedback from my first field report and am incorporating more OODA loops and welcome more feedback with this submission. Reading My reading since last year has been: WISNIFG, NMMNG, Married Man Sex Life Primer, Rational Male, Practical Female Psychology, Frame and most recently Dread. I started rereading NMMNG this week and am halfway through Mystery Method. Knowing the content is one thing but internalizing and turning it into action is another. This week my focus was on assertiveness and not letting my fear of my wife’s emotions stop me. Fitness I was 215lbs and 24% body fat last year before I started doing a 3-day split routine (Chest/Tricep, Back/Bicep, Legs/Shoulder) in February 2023. Incorporate 3-days of cardio as well. Tracking my TDEE and calorie intake with the CarbManager app. You were right, why was I focusing on a home gym vs. going out to a gym? I was lying to myself that it was more convenient at home or that it was cheaper in the long run. As I reflected on it more it was really because I was afraid of my wife’s reaction to leaving after the kids went to bed and leaving her alone in the house vs. staying in the garage to workout. I was using the home gym as a way to avoid a fight. I signed up for the gym in town this week and sure enough, once I told her I was going to be going to the gym after the kids are in bed she got upset. Once we put the kids to bed I grabbed my bag and headed for the door. She started getting amped up and saying I am making all these decisions without her and I am being selfish and it is cutting into “us time”. She started to raise her voice so I got my keys from the other room and left. While at the gym she texted me and said either I can find a couples counselor or she will but she won’t live like this anymore and she doesn’t know who I am anymore. I ignored the text. When I got home she was in bed and we didn’t say anything to eachother the rest of the night. In the past I would have sat next to her and asked her how she was feeling or fishing to try and fix it. I resisted and just STFU, not sure if this was the right move or not but it was at least different than what I had done in the past so I’ll observe the outcome. I have no interest in going to counseling so I am planning for this to be a boundary she is going to test. If she really wants to divorce over counseling then as you all said earlier, the marriage was dead already. Relationship Earlier in the week we actually had a great weekend. Kids were staying at the grandparents so we had a hotel for two nights. I went into the weekend as a way to practice playing with her emotions to see what type of response I could get. I took her to a speakeasy (didn’t tell her where we were going) and we had drinks and food. Kept things light and flirty with touching and kissing as the night went on. On the way back to the car I told her to get in the backseat, fooled around in the backseat in the parking lot. Continued back at the hotel and built eachother up all night with oral back and forth. In the morning she put on lingerie and we had enthusiastic sex. I used this weekend to cut out a covert contract. In the past my covert contract was, get hotel for us, expect hot sex, get butthurt if it didn’t happen as I planned. Different this time was that I went into the weekend not expecting passionate monkey sex. If I wanted more passionate sex I should try to play with her emotions and see what result that would get. A comment on my last post stuck with me and I have been running it over in my head “What does you wife do for you, not for the family, but just you.” This has helped me look objectively this week and apply the 2/3rds rule. I already been keeping the house up to my standard and my timeline and it has shown me how little she is contributing besides babysitting the kids and doing laundry.

Amos_Durden

@Daniel, I follow Kinobody MSB. You can also checkout Jeff Nippard's stuff

Ban Mido

@Stripper, I understand that I can't control other people. I can only go in the general direction of getting more plates and go from there. But sometimes I end up fixated after particular girls. I realized it's my scarcity mindset that makes me try to pin down a gf. If I was spinning a couple of HB6s and knew I could get more HB6s I wouldn't give a flying fuk about any girl. I think eventually my game skills would get me there

Ban Mido

1/25/2024 I’ve been diving into the sidebar and listening to NMMNG + WISNIFG on repeat at work. It’s been an eye-opening two weeks. I’m catching covert contracts left and right, working to get rid of resentment, and starting to rewire my mind to think about me. I’ve been Practicing KINO and expecting her to respond to what I’m doing or waiting for my wife to reciprocate and validate my advances. Also go in often thinking about what things I can do to escalate to sex that day. I know I need to do what I want regardless of her response and begin to blur the lines between intimacy and sex. I’m maybe get one big every now and then and she’ll maybe kiss me back with some enthusiasm once every couple days besides a quick peck. We’re still in couples marriage counseling (her idea) and it keeps coming back to her saying (sometimes crying) about how she feels like I just want to use her for sex and has pointed out that I leave and walk away when she doesn’t want to have sex. I’ve tried the responses from the Archwinger article “you only want me for sex” but it’s met with more hamstering and then I get tired of listening. I’m likely too invested in not losing her that this worries me. I’ve stopped directly asking if she wants to have sex and try to come on to her using some of the KINO stuff I’ve read on the sidebar instead. I’ve tried rubbing her thigh with my hand, gently playing with a panty strap and pulling down on it like it’s time for it to come off, and touching her arm while trying to kiss her. So far, I've been rejected 100% of the time and just given a hard a hard no or a “not right now” which usually means it’s not happening today. When she rejects me for sex, I’ve been saying “okay, have a good night,” “sleep well, I’ll be up later” or just STFU and then I’ve gotten dressed in workout sweats and done the gym bag routine, either lifting or doing something else that I need to get done. In my mind I’m usually butthurt, angry, and resentful and it’s clear I’m pissed off even though I’m trying to not look it. I want to get to the point where I’m outcome independent and genuinely don’t give a fuck if she rejects me with a hard “no.” Q: Am I messing up here by leaving immediately? I don’t see any point giving her more attention when she’s more concerned with playing crosswords on her phone or scrolling tiktok. Any thoughts on not being an uncalibrated sperg when withdrawing attention? I honestly have close to zero desire to do anything with her because we’re not having sex. It’s been over 2 months since we last had sex and I can sense I’m losing my patience with her. To top it off, when seeing her naked or I’ve had numerous moments in the past two weeks where i’m looking at her in the bathroom or getting in bed and thought… “Wow she let herself go… her ass looks flatter and fatter.. I don’t remember all those fat crease lines being there before… that shit she’s eating is really not helping her stomach…has that always been there?” FYI Rian - the OYS you sent, did the substation on, and subsequently did a red morning about was helpful while being surprisingly too relatable. Gave me a lot to think about and put shit in perspective. Also, not sure if this factors into where I’m at with my marriage but my wife and I lost our first kid 5 weeks after birth and then lost our second kid 7 weeks after birth due to a similar mix of birth defects. Luckily, we now have our kid who’s healthy and been with us for several years.

Alligator_Snapping_Turtle

That's great advice and makes a lot of sense. Yeah that sounds like me. Yeah I may have to do that at some point. Things were decent when I was on the major ones. Oh I've done 5x5, do a chest/tri, back/biceps, legs day split. but looking at switching it up for a program to gain mass.

Daniel

I can see how a bus makes sense too; you keep picking up multiple passengers through your life. Sometimes you may be empty, sometimes full and sometimes just 1 passenger.

Ban Mido

I have heard it referred to as the fun bus.

Cousin Eddie

Sucks that you're on blast for shit you didn't do. Regarding goals, when I joined I had the same lack of focus and clarity with my goals. They were too longterm and not concrete/measurable enough. Rian told me to focus on getting my physical and sexual pillar up first. Get into the gym regularly with a training plan and start getting laid. I think those are good beginner goals. Helped me focus my efforts to just gym, my work and dating/pua. Try getting good at those 2 goals first before being distracted by other things. For the dating apps, could you get another number and create new accounts on the major ones? They're a good sourcing strategy especially if you're in a bigger city. Regarding gym, I see not much value in reading books instead of actually following a training plan. Which training plan are you following? RP recommendation is Stronglifts 5*5. There are others too. Choose one established training plan and follow that instead of trying to create your own from scratch (have tried it. it's not worth the effort)

Ban Mido

FR: * Turns out my acute fatigue issues were because I was sleep deprived for the last 3-4 weeks, with inconsistent sleep schedule. Fell sick over the weekend, took some cold meds and slept like a rock. After a few days of sleeping in, along with using SAD lamp in the mornings and reducing caffeine, I'm feeling much better. Even had energy on Tuesday night when plate2 came over. * Plate1 wanted to meet up on Thursday evening for a drink. I had already scheduled a date with another chick so declined my plate's request. My usual impulse is to ask if something's wrong and try to fix shit. But I realized that's giving relationship signals so I refrained from asking anything. She's a great plate but I had already seen her on Tuesday and I didn't plan to see her until next week. * Fell sick over the weekend and plate2 (23y/HB5) texted checking up on me and wanting to come deliver soup or medication. I really didn't want to meet anyone over the weekend and also focus on getting my sleep schedule fixed; kept declining her but thought I had to see her atleast once a week to keep her investment levels up (kind of like watering the plants). Invited her over on Tuesday night, ordered some food, saw a movie and we smashed later (I finally wasn't getting tired). Sent her home later that night because my sleep was still my priority. * Plate2 texted me yesterday night saying she really likes and wants to explore exclusivity with me. I just texted back we can talk about this in person when we meet. I've been behaving mostly like a fuckboy with her; delayed responses, never initiating texts, just seeing her for sex, not spending the night with her, not sharing any memes/funny videos, etc. The only beta behaviors I've shown would be offering her some career guidance (she's a newly junior software engineer), pay for her dinner whenever we hungout (as a reward since we always have sex when we meet), offered a book suggestion once when she asked. She barely knows about my family life and I only know she has a dad and a cat back in her native country; tbh I even forgot which country she's from (she's an immigrant from an African country). She displays a lot of investment and behaves very needy in bed too. I'm thinking I'm on the right path here with how I'm handling things. My goal is to just keep her as a fwb (and if she decides to get exclusivity from another guy I'm ok with that as I feel no emotional attachment with her) * Plate1 shows a lot of investment too but we established it's only a fwb thing (she says she has a rotation too but seems to prioritize me whenever we plan to meet) Thoughts/questions: * I was struggling to understand your points from last week's call about alpha & beta behaviors, being congruent with my desires, not thinking in terms of manipulating the girl into being invested, etc. Tried to think in terms of a metaphor below to help me understand * The way I see it, alpha and beta behaviors are like gas and break pedals. You need to use them both to decide how fast or slow you want to control the "experience" of the relationship. Eg: too alpha/gas, you burn her out or end up dead/in jail; too beta/break, you're not even moving and she gets bored and leaves. * "being congruent with my desires" -> Depending on what I want, I can go more alpha until the girl wants to slow down and decides to hop on a slower/safer driver or I can drive fast but also with breaks to give her excitement but also a longer journey. The passenger can decide at any point to want to get off at which point I just pickup another passenger * "not thinking in terms of manipulating the girl into being invested" -> I can't get a girl into my car but if chooses to be a passenger, then I can use my gas (alpha) and break (beta) pedals to control the experience * And my frame would be like an actual car; it can either be a boring/smaller Kia soul or an exciting/bigger porsche or bugatti. It's upto me to build the car I want and it's upto girls to decide if they want to enter my car.

Ban Mido

@stripper. Yes, that sums it up better than I did. I will add another thought: if it takes so little to move her perspective (in the positive on this example) then something can move it in a different direction just as easy. @opsec , covert As opsec and covert point out. It is a mistake to get to the bottom of it. And change my behavior in relation to it.. dancing monkey. Ty

Cousin Eddie

I started not to do one this week but writing helps. Just starting I have million thoughts swirling around and trying to organize them helps think them through. Gym: really good on that front, I’m started trying to add mass and that’s working. I’m getting several comments in the gym about it. I ordered Anthony Elli’s book Gaining Mass and have been reading that. But then realized that I’m putting more time in the gym than I need to and other areas need more attention, dating mainly. As for dating, it’s been abysmal tbh. But mainly because I’ve put little to no effort into it. (imagine that putting little effort into something produces little to no results) I cut off and on again off again plate. I know she’s holding me back. Every single time she starts talking about a relationship no matter after saying she wasn’t going to. I broke it off and blocked her number. I knew I’d be cutting off sure sex but also realized part of that was validational. Getting laid is getting laid but It was a crutch and not getting out there and finding something better when I know I don’t want a relationship with her and I can find something better. I found a brewery that I want to try and was set to go there on Saturday but the temp was 17 degrees and icy out. I’ve been wanting to force myself to get out there but thought about it and really did not want to that night . Probably wouldn’t be much of anyone there anyway. In the meantime I’ve been on these minor dating apps like Happn, since my ex got me banned on the major ones. I talked to several women but not much came of it. I had a date scheduled with one and then when she was going to come see me she asked if I would help pay for her hair and nails. I told her that she didn’t need to do all that but I would help pay for her gas since she was driving 2 hours to see me. She said okay and we were supposed to meet after I got off. I realized it wasn’t happening and just moved on. All her socials checked out so I don’t think it was a fake but who knows. I had another match and she sent me a message and said she thought I looked familiar and said she found me on ‘Are we dating the same guy’, she said I was one of the top guys on there they warned about. She said there was proof that I had cheated on my ex-wife and that I had abused another woman’s kids. There isn’t because neither ever happened. She said that I should never complain about getting laid because I get laid more than anyone. I thought that was an odd statement to make. Then told me to stop hurting people, called me an incel (an incel who has more sex than anyone lol) and to fuck off. I’ve been angry about it for a couple of days. I finally thought “fuck these broads” I know it’s not true and even if this is out there fuck anyone that believes that shit. My only thought of where this could come from is my ex that I broke up with months back. I thought we ended on good terms but if she’s choosing to be vindictive then that’s her choice. While driving back from the gym I was listening to The Book of Pook on audio and got sick of it and turned it off. I also have stopped listening to content or anything while working etc in general. It wasn’t a conscious choice just got tired of listening to information and taking little action. I’ll just get in the car without even music now most days. Not sure why, but just enjoying some stillness. I’ve realized that I’m tired of having half finished books, half finished everything and need more focus. I deleted all those dating apps because there were a low ROI and a major distraction and ultimately a buffer from getting out, out of my comfort zone and meeting women and facing rejection. Back to focus, my goal is to come up with a clear map and follow it. Are these best written out? I have an idea of what I want but need a clear path mapped out. I’m trying to scattershot things with no clear direction on finishing anything. Main focus is to be more social and I know this is a big one for me being introverted. But I can do it, I just need to put in the effort instead of staying in my comfort zone. Rereading this just feels almost embarrassing at the little amount of tangible progress. I’m not a fat fuck and can carry on a great conversation with women but that’s about all. I have some real work to do.

Daniel

I had been rather focused on/at work and this has improved my job satisfaction and performance. Wife and I were discussing plans for the day. I mentioned sex, but not right away. She said she was worried that I wasn’t planning on it. She then asks me if something is wrong, if I’m mad, or if I’m bored of her. This seemed like a comfort test. I do some negative inquiry, “what makes you think that?” kind of thing, but she can barely answer. Then, I take a different route and start having fun, I became charming. My own mood which was sort of neutral before, becomes fun and this has a positive effect. We fuck shortly afterwards. We would have fucked anyway, I haven't been shot down in months, but a little bit of charm/game was what was needed here. My conclusion is that I need to practice being fun more often, even as far as defaulting to it, and keeping focused is good for me. I had an interesting conversation with my mother. She was telling me all the things I should do with my wife. Negative inquiry (why would I do that?). Eventually it came out. It was all about how my behavior reflects on my mom. I wasn’t surprised yet at the same time damn, raising me was never about me, but about how I reflect on her. It was a trip to hear it straight like that. It was probably said before, but I never paid enough attention. Mom is just a chick too.

Op Sec

This looks very dancing monkey. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish other than trying to manage everyone else's emotions. Your entire scoreboard is how well other people reacted to your dancing. I think you could do with some focus on what you want and who you want to be, and not so much on how you are perceived.

Op Sec

Yes. Got an input ?

Kaiba Corporation

Is this real?

CovertContractAttorney

Have you considered that you’re RP insights into your wife might just be you falling into the Swiss watch maker trap?

CovertContractAttorney

She text me about field reports. If it's important it's face to face. She has not brought up the issue in person. She wants to talk about it, not me. Longer hours have been rewarded. I have shown appreciation for it. I did miss the opportunity u mentioned. And I will definitely be more discrete about my field reports. And I agree, I still have work to do being a better leader

Palea

Kaiba Corporation

Ironic that you ask about a main event. And in the same field report you miss opportunities to show some leadership. "things are not ok" looking for comfort, got a brick wall. Found your field reports, throwing shit, got a brick wall. Works longer hours, "good behavior". got a brick wall. In your position I would begin practicing anti manipulation techniques. So I can manage the comfort & shit tests, more importantly I can begin to assert my desires and show some direction and leadership. Start developing a clear goal for my life, that isn't a covert contract! Bridge "the Distance between us", and start being more intimate/playful. 1. Reread WISNIFG. Fogging, Agree&amplify, Negative Inquiry, Negative assertion. 2. Start working on your Vison. youtube.com/watch?v=Czru2CuWyxQ&t=168s 3. Rewarding the wife for stepping up. 4. Secure my devices from her. Obscure the location for important docs/correspondence (don't let her stumble upon the divorce papers. SMH) 5. Initiate like a madman with no expectation. Get shot down, laugh it off.

will zill

We have separate rooms. I moved out when she was really preggers and never moved back in. Works for us. She does the night duties most nights, unless she asks or is out of town.

will zill

Its been about a week since I got laid. I am in my second week of the nursing program and I am swamped with going to school full time and homework on top of that. Getting my workouts in and finding time for the kids, I am being left pretty exhausted. The wife has picked up the slack financially to make up for the reduced hours I am working. It has also been about a week when I noticed some distance. I have heard a couple of comments on how things are not ok. I do not respond. As far as I know, we are good. In the past I would respond and try to talk about things, and even though I get the urge sometimes, I psyche myself out of it. Last Saturday, my field reports were found. I was away when I received two text messages basically saying "what the hell is this? I cant believe you?" and "there is no coming back from this." Coincidently, I just read the part in Dread that talks about that. I Ignored the text messages. I am still having dinners and lunch made for me when she has the time. Everyday, I wake up like nothing. Memory of a goldfish. I attempt to go on like nothing, I am met with short answers or just a head nod when I talk logistics. Oh well, I go on with my day. She can be a part of it or not. Tomorrow morning I am going to initiate, we will have a brief window. I have become good at accepting sexual rejections, so no big deal if she does reject me. I already know in the next day or two she will attempt to "talk" but I will try being as short as possible using the tools I have learned from sidebars and readings. One thing that has been helping me is noticing I have become better socially. A girl from the nursing program initiated a conversation with me and I tried to apply what I have read on game. Admittedly I suck at it, but this interaction went well. She was 6, and I negged her a bit, she was all smiles. The conversation lasted about a minute, and as I ended to conversation and began to walk away she said "hey, what's your name?" I gave her my name and I began to walk away and she says "my name is (name)." This Sunday we have a family function to go to from her side of the family. I'm not sure if I should even go. Is me not going the same as making her look bad in public? Or is going and acting like the loving couple the play to make. In January of 2020 I left my wife for about 3 months. I got a main event during this time. She would call me crying, asking to come back. Hysteric bonding, the works. I moved back in and she was very submissive. I did not know anything about red pill so of course I fucked it up. Is it possible to get a second main event? No, its not a covert contract. I am genuinely curious. I have instilled in my mind, the stay plan is the same as the go plan.

Palea

R&P 255 Had an incident the other night; one of the kids woke up and came into our bed. (He has just started at school) He was restless, so I picked him up and took him back to his own bed. Stayed with him for about an hour, thinking he was asleep, and eventually left. Later, my wife woke up and went to check on him, (heard a noise) and is then awake all night with him and then the youngest awoke. She laid into me around 6 am. I just fogged the onslaught, and then she started making jokes about it, treating it like a non-event. 🤷 In any case, it was a challenging night, and we agreed to let him stay until he's deeply asleep before attempting to move him again in the future. (Or I will just leave and goto his bed)

Fez

43 -Wife goes on a ‘trip’ and gains insight. -Controlling narrative with child. -Pumping state (emotion.) Wife trips My wife comes home from a girls trip and she is being extra nice to me. Hitting on her even leads to sex. She then tells me on her girls trip she did shrooms, looked into in the mirror and saw herself age from birth to dying. Realized her time on this planet is limited. She is getting old and the only person currently, and that will ever look at her as a beautiful 22 year old is me. (wife goggles.) For a moment she realizes how great, loyal, and endearing I am. And realizes how bitchy she is in return. I was cocky funny and laughed it off, “great, now that you are enlightened you can prove it...(sex)” I did not know what else to say and I surely was not going to get into the weeds on her behavior. Rp: Her psych trip stripped away some baggage and presented a mirror. I am sure her insight will fade, and it makes no difference in my map. For the time being It does give me a window into what can be. What it is like for a woman to be on good behavior. This confession reminds me of Rians sat post of how women have an internal struggle. They know their husband is great but their attraction level does not match. The shrooms gave her a little clarity on her internal war. Controlling narrative with child My child called me lazy. It is my Achilles heal. I have tones of guilt and my wife is not shy of shaming me. My daughter follows her lead. (Note to new readers: lazy: I am going through a slow health recovery process.) I replied, “guilty as charged. Look at the bright side. I get to spend so much time with you. Before I was sick you (daughter) used to go to daycare 8-6 every day. And when I get better you will go back to daycare. In a way you’re lucky.” She froze, thought about it, smiled, and moved on. Note: the part, “look at the bright side. I get to…” is technically a deer. I usually respond with agree and amplify: “extremely lazy! Which reminds me, go get me some food. You over achiever. lol” This response works well but the initial example twisted the narrative. I knew how much she hated it when we left her at daycare all day so I re-framed my current laziness to her having access to me. Me= Lets focus on the positive part of my 'brain cancer.' daughter= re oriented to match me. In the past I would deer and have tried to argue but that only creates the subtext of self guilt. Pumping state practice with kids I help at my kid’s classroom for a couple hours a week. I have been focusing on pumping state (emotion) and not communicating with logic. I realized kids respond to pumping state like it is candy. Kids are bored, have little attention, live in the present (generally,) are sensitive to emotion and are repulsed by logic. (eerily similar to drunk girls/people at a club.) Ex: Instead of saying “That is not how we correctly write a lower case a” I playfully stare them down with a frown, hold my breath, and crumple their paper. Then help a different student and ignore them. They have to beg me to look at their garbage work again. The teacher was impressed with how well, and how much they wrote for me. A parent did complain though. Something about how I told her son his hand writing was an embarrassment for all 3rd graders (cocky funny of course.) I fogged, agreed and amplified as the teachers disciplined me. "I was even handed. I told all of the kids their writing was horrible!" I pleaded with her to fire me from this volunteer work but she refused and could hardly hold back her laughter. Point: pumping state; the act of changing emotions or state of mind around you. Kids are a great place to practice this. With some calibration I have found it to map well to boring dinners, social events… social animal stuff.

Cousin Eddie