Discussing Hawk Point, Meteor Lake, RDNA 3, and Lovelace AI w/ a Gaming AI Dev
Added 2023-12-07 23:08:34 +0000 UTCThe next episode of Broken Silicon will see us be joined by a Gaming AI Developer who works at PygmalionAI. This is an open-source product dedicated to creation large language models for both chat, and role-playing purposes. Examples of what he wants to help create are better text adventure prompts that actually understand your input's intention, and also a package indie developers could use to quickly create thousands of conversation trees for their in-game characters. However, he also is very excited to discuss:
- Reveals at AMD's Advancing AI Event
- The importance of "TOPs" in AI Engines
- AMD Hawk Point vs Intel Meteor Lake NPU Performance
- The Good and the Bad of AMD, Intel, and Nvidia's approach to AI Software
- What Hardware future games are likely to actually use to Power new AI Features
- If the PlayStation 5 and XBOX Series X can run the AI Models he is working on
- What hardware the PlayStation 6 is likely to implement for powering AI
- What hardware PC Gamers should be concerned about owning for future AI Features
- Who is actually making the best AI Hardware and Software right now...
- Anything having to do with the AI Market, Hardware, etc.
You have ~48 Hours (till Saturday Afternoon US Central Time) to submit below. Note, that if you submit by Friday morning, there is a chance the guest can be far more prepared to answer some questions, and it also helps the MLID team prepare early. Be concise, use good grammar, and be respectful to have your submissions considered.
https://www.youtube.com/live/tfSZqjxsr0M?si=vxVai8hkcCa39v5m
Main Domain (pygmalion.ai is not them): https://pygmalion.chat/
Discord with Active Devs: https://discord.com/invite/pygmalionai
AI engine github: https://github.com/PygmalionAI/aphrodite-engine
Guest’s github (very new): https://github.com/IsaiahGossner
Main github for the project: https://github.com/PygmalionAI
Their hugging face, where actual models are stored: https://huggingface.co/PygmalionAI
Comments
There are already tools based on "AI" that can generate images, 3d models and text for role playing, and even voice synthesis. There are also tools that use algorithms to generate landscapes, so things like maps, dungeon I assume is a natural evolution of these tools. I think they will come soon. It would be interesting to hear where we currently are, though.
Athena Azuraea
2023-12-09 23:31:53 +0000 UTCIf I had to guess, I would assume that the models have to be trained. Trained or tuned specifically to this character, so that they don't escape the bounds of the character. I imagine that in the future, we'll get more powerful models that can be reused by just tweaking a few parameters, but I assume that will take a while since such models will generally have to be pretty generic. And perhaps in the future we might just get models that can help generate or creating new models for specific characters.
Athena Azuraea
2023-12-09 23:28:04 +0000 UTCWhat would be the primary uses of AI in game dev and in games?
KingHarkinian
2023-12-09 21:42:48 +0000 UTCQuite open questions: From a developper point of view, is there any difference for using an already trained model between AMD, Intel and NVIDIA? And is there any specific needs that any of those should tackle in their future release beyond raw power?
CRCV
2023-12-09 17:52:40 +0000 UTCHi, I apologize if it is a bit late. I have a question about AI and game development. Do you think the game developers will develop those AI in house, or will they take an on-the-shelf solution (e.g. redevelop a chatGPT like AI, or use chatGPT parametrized accordingly). More generally, AI need training sets. How is this/ will be tackled for different settings such as fantasy or Sci-fi?
CRCV
2023-12-09 17:49:52 +0000 UTCOne example given for using AI for games is to auto-generate conversation trees for the in-game characters. What about generating characters and their models themselves? What about maps, dungeons, missions and so on?
Chris Rijk
2023-12-09 16:00:12 +0000 UTCAI Developer - Have you or anyone you know looked into using AI in general for things like automated testing? Eg, auto-exploring a game world to test a map or simulating a human player in order to test or tune game mechanics.
Chris Rijk
2023-12-09 15:54:16 +0000 UTCLarge language models are generally trained on modern knowledge and ideas because they’re designed to interact with modern humans. For a game set in the past, or in a fantasy world, or in the future, do the models need to be retrained or can you simply provide some reasonable constraints? Do you have any fun anecdotes about models producing completely inappropriate output for a given game world?
Chris Rijk
2023-12-09 15:53:57 +0000 UTCLarge language models are, well, large. For a model designed to provide direct human interaction that runs inside a game, how much memory are game developers willing to use? How much of your job is trying to shrink down a general purpose model into something more optimised to a particular game? What sort of consumer hardware do you think is a reasonable minimum for such models?
Chris Rijk
2023-12-09 15:53:47 +0000 UTCHey Tom and Guest, I do have a second question: when creating an adventure that uses AI to process the players' input, how do you make sure it does not get out of character? Do you have to hard-code some safety nets or do you have to train another AI to keep the first one in check? Overall: How do you factor in and work around the uncertainty caused by AI?
Dave Scholze
2023-12-08 23:04:37 +0000 UTCHey Tom and Guest, as a fellow developer currently working on a basic Vehicle-AI, I am wondering about a consistent AI solution. For example: sometimes you want the AI to act mostly the same, maybe for a simulation, maybe for a scripted sequence etc. With current algorithms, that's fairly simple to achieve. But is there a way to make a trained model consistently produce the same result over and over again if required?
Dave Scholze
2023-12-08 22:57:27 +0000 UTCCan we take a moment to finally see the fruits of Xbox’s acquisitions finally sprouting. I forgot hellblade 2 was a thing and when I saw it’s trailer I had the biggest “oh yea that exists” moment in awhile. Blade from arkane I find I’m meeting with so much skepticism, arkane seems to have lost a few cylinders in the engine as of late but we’ll see what they pull off. Also as a rare death stranding enjoyer interested in what Jordan peele and Kojima are cooking. Looked like nothing since they showed nothing of course but I’ll keep my eyes on it. What were your thoughts from the game awards? Never played never BGS3, never will, but it won. Can we all agree that golem and Kong got robbed ;).
Sad XTX 999
2023-12-08 20:53:30 +0000 UTCHello Tom and guest, to steer away from all the ai talk. GTA 6, what are your thoughts? It looks incredible to me and I can’t help but think the final product will look like the trailer on console because of all the imperfections, example being the Aliasing issues with the hair. While it did look really good what they achieved with the physics it wasn’t perfect and they didn’t try to hide it. But that’s just one thing and of course I could be wrong. What do you think the performance target will be? I believe it will be a 30fps experience around 1440p, all that stuff on the screen it’s probably cpu limited. Series S performance will be interesting to see.
Sad XTX 999
2023-12-08 20:45:21 +0000 UTCDid you even read what I said? Artists have all their work stolen from them to train datasets, they don't have a say in it, and have no control over it. So comparing it to slavery is quite close to what's happening right now, especially when you consider people like you see artists as a *commodity* you can use to get your product without having to pay them a cent.
3-Valdion Dreemur
2023-12-08 20:44:05 +0000 UTCIt is a really poor analogy to compare to slavery. We only have new tools to create art, using different skills, but no one is forced against their will to use them. A better analogy is cameras partially replacing painting or photoshop partially replacing photography.
Laz
2023-12-08 20:40:31 +0000 UTCHi Tom and Guest. I sometimes hear the argument that modern game AI is not as good as old classics such as Half Life. Is there truth to this sentiment? Are we introducing a selection bias by comparing the most memorable and outstanding example from decades ago to average examples today? Or is there something with the complexity of modern games that makes it harder to make AI? Perhaps, did developers find that AI complexity is not as important to enjoyment as it might seem at first?
Laz
2023-12-08 20:35:32 +0000 UTCHello Tom and Guest, how would you two recommend someone gets into AI? Also, do you have any advice for AI in one's own video game to make it the best it can be?
yoda king
2023-12-08 20:32:40 +0000 UTCI'm not gonna snap at you, because you're just ignorant of the situation. Artists have never given their consent to have their work stolen from them, and even "refining" a generated image leaves a lot of artifacts that make it look... Not particularly good.
3-Valdion Dreemur
2023-12-08 16:48:35 +0000 UTCI personally think everyone is thinking about this the wrong way. Artists are out of a job? No. It's just that their job CHANGES. Instead of making models from scratch, they can use neural networks to generate a base, then tweak it. Image and model generators aren't perfect. Someone needs to guide them, understand them, tweak them and put on the final touches. Is there going to be less work to do because of it? Yes. Does that mean artists will be less needed, or paid less? No. They will just have time to create more models given the same amount of resources. Another way to look at it is more beautiful models or more detailed models for the same amount of resources. Neural networks are just tools that are here to aid artists. It's just a natural evolution of technology. So I think artists are here to stay. People who understands this technology and can bring out the best of it is going to be the new artists. If companies can create more art or more detailed or prettier art for the same amount of resources, they're going to do it. Because that gives them an edge over the competition, and pretty games sell. At least that's what I think.
Athena Azuraea
2023-12-08 15:55:36 +0000 UTCDo you have a vision of what AI could do in future for games? For example creating entire plots of the games, music, characters or even visuals? Sure the process of developing game like this would be hard but replaybility would be insane. Isn't this the future of games?
QuickJumper
2023-12-08 14:05:31 +0000 UTCHey Tom and Mr.AI. with your idea of the projects and what they're going to be doing do you think it's feasible that you guys are going to be able to get this feature running on modest hardware. Do you guys think that you're going to be able to get it running with a pretty low latency. Do you currently anticipate that putting these types of features and games is going to be another delay in the presentation of the games processing pipelines.
Swiggles
2023-12-08 02:16:57 +0000 UTCOh I forgot to include this in my previous comment : Just call me Evaldion, though it was funny to see you struggling to say my full name in the last Die Shrink.
3-Valdion Dreemur
2023-12-08 01:01:30 +0000 UTCHello Tom and Guest. How are you dealing with the ethics of deep neural networks? Are you stealing and scraping the Internet for copyrighted work to make your models, or are you training them upon your own work, or those of people who have agreed to it? Are you conscious that it is but a matter of time before the governments hit the big red "reset" button because of all the copyright infringement? When I sent a screenshot of this post to an artist friend, she was pissed - and rightly so - and told me she didn't even want to hear what you had to say, stating you'd probably be like all the other "AI" devs. So, please, prove us both wrong, and prove that some researchers actually do care about the ethics of it all. I have experienced first hand how many people see artists and "AI" now, and their points of view are terrifyingly close to how slavery worked. They knew it was wrong, they knew the artists were suffering and being abused by the system, yet they did not care as their only excuse was "My life is hard too" as if that excuses pushing your problems onto others. I genuinely think Deep Neural Networks (the correct term for current "AIs") and the upcoming true AIs and AGIs capable of learning and critical thinking are an amazing technology, but the current way these are implemented is far from sustainable, and akin to slavery. If you have questions about that, I can send a good thirty screenshots of a Discord conversation in which you can see the horrors of how the current AI "revolution" is making people feel about artists.
3-Valdion Dreemur
2023-12-08 00:58:27 +0000 UTCWhile we heard about theoretical local applications in the last guest Broken Silicon, only a few client run AI apps are available for Phoenix APUs. My question on consumer NPUs is "So what?" Are we really about to get dozens of locally run AI apps supporting this, or is this latest push from AMD trying to spur just the beginning of development?
FloridaMan
2023-12-08 00:22:00 +0000 UTCTom and Guest. What is your current favourite vendor for AI and what about their implementation stands out above their competition?
CompressedAIBlocks
2023-12-08 00:12:48 +0000 UTCI don't think it's a secret that the AI market is growing faster than anyone has anticipated. Lisa Su said it herself, it's as big as the internet was. That being said, when does the growth stop? When does AI just become a common place thing in games like SSAO or AA? 3 years? 5 years? 10 years?
CompressedAIBlocks
2023-12-08 00:06:56 +0000 UTCHello Tom and guest With the growth in capability of ai processing engines is it feasible in a world of hyper realistic games to have in game NPCs be able to respond to a player realtime like another human instead of giving scripted responses or conversations. Say ask a city guard where the blacksmith or magic shop is and get given human like directions outside a script. Or to be able to have a life-like conversation with a town citizen about lore or whats been happening in the town. Do you see a limit to ways artificial intelligence utilized in content if hardware is available to support it, Thanks again Happy holidays to all
Keakum
2023-12-08 00:02:37 +0000 UTCCan something like this run reasonable on current generation consoles like PS5, XSX and Switch Next? Will this be something that PC gamers will have an advantage with to such a degree that it won't run at all or at the desired performance levels on console? Is this a next generation console thing only?
CompressedAIBlocks
2023-12-08 00:01:36 +0000 UTCAll that you need to know to get good AI is to buy Nvidia products. Discuss.
Jen-Hsun Huang
2023-12-08 00:00:44 +0000 UTCWould an AI model like the one you're working on require a set amount of TOPs like say 25, no more would make it faster and less would hinder text generation? Like wise, would something like generative assets be able to a scale with a vary amount of TOPs akin to say LOD in a game?
CompressedAIBlocks
2023-12-07 23:59:19 +0000 UTCDoes it make more sense to rely on GPUs for AI performance or should we expect NPU style silicon in CPUs to be enough for AI use cases in gaming?
CompressedAIBlocks
2023-12-07 23:47:35 +0000 UTCSimple question (s). Is AI the wrong tool long term for developers? Will it cause more harm than we can think of and will it hamper creativity? I'm not saying AI doing small tasks but taking on large chunks of programming, replacing voice actors/writers and other industry talents and generating assets.
CompressedAIBlocks
2023-12-07 23:46:01 +0000 UTCHello! Two interconnected questions for the developer. Regarding the package for generating conversation trees, is this an AI powered tool that creates files for a game to parse to run the conversation, like a JSON file full of text lines, or some kind of engine plug-in that generates the conversation tree when the game runs? Also, how does the tool handle differences in character state - for example, the difference in mindset between a character at the beginning of the game and at the end?
Cleansweep
2023-12-07 23:31:29 +0000 UTCHello! Two related questions for your esteemed guest. How does Apple's Neural Engine compare to the dedicated AI accelerators we now see from AMD and others? How do you see these AI processors improving game experiences in the future?
Frobozz
2023-12-07 23:15:26 +0000 UTCWhat does the developer in question think of AI censorship/alignment? Some of us enjoy doing... edgier stuff with AIs that companies like OpenAI do not like. Case in point: ChatGPT refusing to do certain prompts in a Genshin fanfic where the most wackiest things happen, like characters dying in the most retarded or amusing ways. South Park-tier crude humor basically, but even then they get censored by the AI.
Wasmachineman_NL
2023-12-07 23:12:31 +0000 UTC
