😤 LET’S ARGUE! 😤 (July 2020 Thread)

Why does shitty mathrock sound like the worst hipster pandering bullshit?

King Crimson is just Creed for Atheists

Wingus McDingus

100 gecs' discography is going to age badly. We may find this hyperactive pop sound fun now, but by 2030 we'll look at it in the same way we look at Eurodance today.

Matt Dorrell

aesop rock is the best lyricist of all time and it's not even close

Emffles

Can you please review "Moving Pictures" by Rush next classics week?

Arnarok

Hi Anthony, not really a hot take but I noticed you use the word "risk" a lot when speaking about artists and their music. I was wondering what would you define as "risk"? EDIT: Same for the word "ambitious"

KSI is a better rapper than Gunna.

oscos

Hook is the most underrated movie. Yeah it has flaws but they are hilarious. It's to me one of the most fun movies ever with an amazing score and some of the most epic scenes it's a gem to all who grew up with it.

To clarify, the albums I was talking about in the last comment (radio sounds) were Flower Boy and Songs for the Deaf.

Treasure is much better than Heaven or Las Vegas. The sound is darker and more unique.

Trap will be the sound of popular music for the rest of time. It is the most cheap, easy and accessible form of music ever, so it will just be trap bangers forever

lowkeymatt

Crack Up is the strongest of the 3 full length FF albums. It continues to build and progress sonically on the gorgeous soundscapes and atmospheres they built on Helplessness Blues and it has strong , consistent themes throughout similar to that album. Robins songwriting also remains top notch and the tracks flow really well.

IDLES is about to drop a 10

Caden Meyer

An interesting fact for you: Lotus Flower is John coltrane’s nephew

Shorter take is that Hospice is an incredible record, and while I can understand why people wouldn't like it, it goes to show that some music is better if you connect with it more. As a male abuse victim, that album really hits me in a way that no other does. So I suppose the more general take here is that relating to an album can improve its contents for you. Though if you barely liked it to begin with, I suppose that wouldn't really matter much.

Adam Washington

Not a hot take, but more albums should explore multimedia, specifically a written component along with the record. For example, Deathconsciousness or Giles Corey; in both cases, the literature associated with the work recontextualizes the music itself. Dan's writing in Giles Corey about the Voor's Head Device and ghosts doesn't improve the record necessarily, as it's perfectly enjoyable on its own, but it crafts a distinct world in which the music becomes the soundtrack to, creating a legitimately disconcerting and haunting experience. The album feels greater than itself; it belongs to a world where the fiction comes to life in a way that isn't possible on its own. The inverse is also true; the music balloons beyond being purely sound. Another album that would get the same treatment from a written component is You Won't Get What You Want. Again, it wouldn't make the record any better, but it would craft such a terrifyingly paranoid world, a la Thomas Ligotti, that the zine, short story, or book itself would undoubtedly reflect.

Adam Washington

Gord Downies voice can be pretty god awful at times. He was an extremely iconic singer in canada and the Tragically hip was a national treasure, but i cant get over how bad his singing could be.

Jack staubers music truly is unique, I haven’t seen any other artists work get close to the style Jack stauber puts into his work, and due to this i feel he is at least slightly under appreciated.

Do you think Chance the Rapper could come back and make another Acid Rap quality project, or do you think those days are behind him?

The Life of Pablo might not be Kanye West’s best album, but it’s his most fun album to listen to. You can’t get the same level from entertainment from a Ye album than with Pablo.

oscos

Ambient Drone is not depressing and actually is quite uplifting music if people listen to it the right way.

The south produces the best hip hop/rap artists

Michaela Janicki

Your political and social media commentary is usually more on point than your music commentary

Michaela Janicki

Leaving LA is a FANTASTIC song by Father John Misty!

People who call Hamilton problematic are kinda missing the point. The musical is about a poor immigrant who works his way to becoming one of the Founding Fathers of America. LMM isn’t trying to glorify these historical figures on the contrary, Alexander Hamilton literally cheats on his wife in the play.

it’s harder to get a 0 than a 10 from you.

oscos

shinee and red velvet have two of the best discographies in kpop and pop music in general with virtually no bad albums and i really wish kpop had a more valid global representative than bts since there's so much amazing kpop out there

Is it possible that we won't see a vaccine in our lifetimes? I've heard it'll be within a year but how does one know such a thing? Please reassure us, Anthony!

The debut album from Kids See Ghosts is Hip-Hop's answer to King Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King"

Arnarok

Marnie Stern is an underrated artist/group and features some of Zach Hill’s best drumming

Andrew Shaktah

I can assure you, Roddy Ricch is not a bitch.

oscos

Name 3 albums you’d consider to re-review.

oscos

You love doing Let’s Argue on your patreon because you feel like you’re talking to your closest friends.

oscos

Couldn’t have fucking said it better myself

Diego Martinez

While I do agree mostly with this sentiment I think stating that modern music has completely surpassed the classic rock period ignores the many albums from the time that can’t be replicated because of how idiosyncratic they are to the artists that made them. I don’t think anyone can replicate the nostalgic view of England that the kinks showed on village green, the fear of change that the pretty things produced on parachutes, or the half English life perspective half lsd fairytale masterpiece of Ogdens nutgone flake by the small faces. Sometimes good writing and playing can make a piece of music timeless, and as much as I like swans they are never going to replace Pink Floyd for me but live alongside them.

Brendan

Classifying metal this broadly is a little crude. There are plenty of subgenres that are considered part of the metal community that go to some extremely dark places. You should check out bands like Indian, The Body and Primitive man and then try and claim that it isn't 'dark'.

Kanye Announcing that he is running for president is a particularly cynical marketing strategy for his new record. Usually I wouldn't be too phased by his antics but honestly when things are as difficult and uncertain as they are, people don't need the added stress and absurdity of another unhinged egomaniac trying to become president. Of course, the fact that he is even able to announce his potential candidacy without total ridicule reveals how dire the political climate is right now.

Most of the recent music people call hardcore or beatdown is actually just metalcore and has deeper roots in metal than hardcore punk.

Post-pandemic artists will have to make most of their money busking online

I don’t see many questions, so... who’s the most skillful rapper Freddie Gibbs or Pusha T?

oscos

If Kanye ever becomes president, it’ll be the result of everyone voting for him as a meme

oscos

People who claim that rock is "dead" are in denial of the vastly different music atmosphere we have today versus before streaming platforms existed. Since music listeners have more control over satisfying their individual tastes, the "Hot 100" charts no longer accurately depict the full spread of the music scene. Of course the top several songs at any one time will be the least common denominator, but I would argue that there are millions upon millions of rock fans today, but they have become, like fans of any genre now, less homogenized than ever and that is a very good thing.

Max Hedman

Told my coworker my two favorite rappers were Cal Chuchesta and Froggy Fresh... He told me to never talk about rap again.

I... disagree.

I'll give you Fuck That being kind of forgettable, but Bitch Please and Punk Weight are forgettable??

Adam mezzarone

you just eliminated pop as a genre with this statement haha

Anna Narkevich

Exmilitary is DG’s most accessible project due to clearer themes/lyrics.

You're too harsh on Beck. I get that Morning Phase was kinda dull and Colors just irredeemably awful, but Hyperspace is comparatively a pleasant listening experience. Also a Beck Best to Worst would be a fun video.

Matt Dorrell

Labeling something as “underground” or “alternative” doesn’t actually describe any genere or give the listener a better understanding of what the music will be. All it does it make it seem less accessible and in turn limit the amount of people who listen to it

Samuel Baron

Neo-psychedelia has to be one of the most uninformative genre names out there. Artists like Tame Impala, Animal Collective, and the Flaming lips have VERY little in common musically. Sure- they may all draw some ideas from music in the 60s-70s, but they all have WILDLY different sonic identities. Something like MPP or Feels sounds nothing like 'neo-psychedlia' but are consistently labeled as it just because they have mildly beach boys-esque vocal harmonies.

Miles Okazaki is one of the most adventurous and consistently exciting guitarists/composers in the contemporary jazz scene.

Albums like Soundtracks for the Blind by Swans, Ys by Joanna Newsom, Vespertine by Bjork, and Lift Yr Skinny Fists by Godspeed are proof that much of the classic rock period has been surpassed by more recent music. Too many people in the music community treat music like a museum piece and insist that Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, Pink Floyd etc. must dominate every "Greatest Albums of All Time" list and wrongly believe that those albums are untouchable.

Not brushing your teeth is justifiable if you ate mints and chewed bubble gum all day.

oscos

Suede is far and away the best band to come out of the britpop era. Their inclusion of a bombastic and sensual glam rock style makes them stand out among their Kinks obsessed contemporaries. Furthermore, Dog Man Star is not only the best britpop album it is also one of the best 90's records to come out of either side of the Atlantic.

Other then late 80s/early 90s hardcore, and like three songs by consciousness rappers, there are not enough songs about vegan/vegetarians. Yes, I am aware of Meat is Murder.

Cleanwolf

Watching a recent interview by Nicki Minaj earlier this year where she talked about disliking her biggest hits ( Super bass, Anaconda, Starships) made me realize how lazy she is. She's not working with top producers and songwriters to create exceptional content or new ones to create something new. She's just riding off of the fact that she's naturally an above average talent and doesn't challenge herself visually and sonically compared to her early years but overutilizes it by collaborating with ANY AND EVERYONE and not a select group of people.

Is it theoretically possible for you to only like, say, 80% of an album, but like those songs so much that you give the album a 10? Or would you need to like every track?

Tim

The Money Store would be a 10 but it's dragged down by Bitch Please, Fuck That and Punk Weight, pretty forgettable DG tracks imo. It's a 9 at best, but NLDW is a 10 cause the track list is flawless.

Ben Sparks

Does listening to music ever feel like a chore for you after awhile?

Women are killing it in music right now in every genre and are not getting enough credit for it

Artists who usually avoid the public spotlight by not doing tv appearances, music videos, social media, etc. encourage their content-starved fans to focus on the music even more and, in a backwards way, grow much closer to their fans because of this (especially when the music is deeply personal).

The eagles suck and I'm tired of people acting like they aren't the most boring rock band of all time because they are

Adam mezzarone

Drake’s next project will be his magnum opus

2020 has been just an okay year for music so far in comparison with the last couple of years

Omar AlHashmi

I think that people should think production the same as composition on an importance scale, not only in hip hop and electronic genres. A lot of modern albums can sound generic, emotionless, and weak, wasting all the artistic work that rests. This is visible on modern pop, rock, and metal, which result in boring albums that feel like it was made by AI. I wish that more musicians take more risks and make it more interesting. I would also remark that this must be thought in context, raw and clean productions works depending on the intentions. I love overproduced music the same as lo-fi.

You should review the cuphead soundtrack

Vipul Konnur

The teaser for the Kids See Ghosts cartoon looks terrible. If I wanted to hear Kanye scream like a maniac for half an hour I could do that elsewhere without having to sit through this imagery that looks like a Nintendo DS cutscene

Tristan Noel

Manufacturers need to start making quality tape decks again. It’s so hard to get into cassette collecting because finding a way to play them that doesn’t sound horrible is too difficult.

While he was an incredibly creative artist , I feel like David Bowie was not as good performance wise leading to many covers of his songs (like the david matthews space oddity and midge ures man who sold the world) sounding better than his versions of them.

I have two rather unpopular opinions that are based on your “Let’s Argue Worst Reviews” episode: 1. Houses of the Holy is Led Zeppelin’s best record. It is their most adventurous set of tracks with some gorgeous slower cuts (“The Rain Song” and “No Quarter”), some of their best grooves (“D’yer Maker” and “The Ocean”), their HANDS DOWN best opener “The Song Remains the Same”, AND their HANDS DOWN best song EVER “Over the Hills and Far Away.” You’ll notice I didn’t mention one song, which brings me to my SECOND unpopular opinion: “The Crunge” is one of their most underrated and overhated songs. That track is easily one of their most fun and whacked out songs ever with all kinds of great rhythmic patterns and kooky Robert Plant vocals. If it wasn’t for this track, I’d have a harder time choosing between HOTH and Led Zeppelin II. “The Crunge” deserves more love🥺

Diego Martinez

The 80s are the most grossly overrated decade. The music from that decade is no better than most decades in recent memory, and the main reason it gets SO MUCH PRAISE is because it doesn't offend conservative white audiences like a lot of modern day music.

King Crimsons discography is overlooked, despite having some of the most essential and transcendental prog rock records spanning decades, people only seem to talk about In the Court of the Crimson King while records such as Larks’ Tongue In Aspic and Discipline are quite fantastic.

King Creosote is an amazing artist and his collaboration with Jon Hopkins, Diamond Mine, is one of the best albums of the past decade.

Taiga (your album), is a 10!

I mean it's music designed for what he consumes, so maybe not why he'd enjoy it. I'd think the moog synth would draw people in more lol

Bands with 1 remaining original member are basically glorified cover bands.

Mr Gengar

Do you think analog will always be the better format for music listening? Or will Bluetooth/some other technology someday catch up & surpass it?

Adrian Vargas

argue against**

Beck Trebesch

Listening to Circles and Swimming side by side, I don't find the singing on either record to be too different. Although I think Swimming's murkier production and mixing was to the detriment of Mac's singing and I generally prefer Circles, I think it's hard to argue the musical and emotional capability of the records (given that they were made in the same head space). I feel that your Swimming score was exceptionally harsh compared to Circles and that the albums are on the same playing field, although Circles may be better and less sleepy.

Beck Trebesch

If Mastodon had stopped at Crack The Skye, they would have gone down in history (maybe along with the band Death) as the most legendary metal band in the past 40 years

Diego Martinez

Andre 3000's best ever feature is on the remix to Ke$ha's "Sleazy". In addition, that song in itself has a beat that was unrivalled in the greater pop sphere of that time.

Weird Al should be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

Jacob Dickens

Jaden Smith gets unfairly critiqued for being carried by expensive production because it comes from family money, compared to many other bad rappers carried by expensive production bought by their label

No club bangers from 2020 will be remembered like other years as no one is out in clubs/bars/parties to hear them (hell, even the middle school dance nostalgia market). All the songs that came out this year are going to be the song I listened to while working from home, or eating chips on my room

Wrestling theme music should be looked at the same way as film scores: by themselves they may not be amazing but can greatly enhance whatever is accompanying it (e.g. a certain wrestler making an entrance to convey their character / add more tension to a nail-biting scene).

Daniel H

K I immediately want to argue with you. Well played.

Jac

36 Chambers > Liquid Swords

90s aesthetics are highly overrated

Benjamin Lisboa

Anime unironically has some of the best working composers currently. Hiroyuki Sawano, Taku Iwasaki, and Teddyloid all dropped some of the best material of last decade. Not to mention the revolutionary work Yoko Kanno did on Bebop, or the genius use of The Pillows's material on FLCL. Also also Utada Hikaru is one of the most interesting pop stars of the late 90s/2000s. Acknowledge the weebs!

Caleb John Cushing

Lil Jon was the first hip hop meme

Marilyn Manson's newer stuff is unfairly critisized for not being 'shocking' enough like his older stuff. It was a completely different climate and people are way more desensitized to that kind of material nowadays to the point where its almost impossible to 'shock' people in terms of lyrical subject matter and harsh industrial sound

Froggoking

You have the worst Nardwaur interview because you weren’t surprised by anything he said; that’s the fun part of the interview. Also he didn’t say “You’re Anthony Fantano, we have to know”.

To be fair it’s not like women can’t rap about sex in a way that’s feminine and not, “manly” but nonetheless I agree

Brendan

Have you heard of Plantasia? I feel like as a vegan you would really appreciate it

MF DOOM is the most entertaining rapper of all time. His flows, cadences, bars and his voice blend in together perfectly, specially with his production choices. Everything has an immense amount of chemistry and you will never get as much fun while listening to a rapper than with MF DOOM. I really like him, Melon.

oscos

Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde is an underrated hip hop classic, can go toe-to-toe with similar albums of the same era like Low End Theory. Also probably the one of the most fun hip hop records ever made

Gray Taylor

If Lil Dicky returned to his earlier work and released music more akin to songs such as 'Bruh' he would be considered a top 5 rapper today among his modern peers.

The cures discography is greater than that of the smiths as the cures music ranged from extremely catchy pop hits to grim distorted goth pieces. The smiths albums seem to have much less progression in sound than the cure.

Lochlan Bailey

'While My Guitar Gently Weeps' is the greatest song in the Beatle's discography bar none.

The idea of guilty pleasures is ridiculous. Nobody should have to apologize for enjoying something that doesn’t fulfill “standard criteria”

If Zack Fox would make more “parody rap music” he can definitely succeed at it. I could see him inspire more people to get on that wave and create a whole new sub-genre that would actually be enjoyable

oscos

you’re not as harsh of a critic as people make you out to be. you’re incredibly critical about all the music you review but it seems like people wanna act like you like nothing when in reality you give several several albums positive reviews every year

that song he recently did with Disclosure was CRAZY

Riley Schmedeman

As hiphop audiences are heavily male, t's difficult for female rappers to get much traction in the mainstream unless they rap about topics men are interested in. By which I mean sex.

Jac

George Harrison's Brainwashed is an underrated album in his discography when compared to his more famous ones like All things must pass. No one seems to give it the credit it deserves and only see it as posthumous album that doesn't deserved to be listened to.

Brian Cagle

Corey Taylor and Zach de la Roche deserve more credit for their rap abilities. They each have great pen game and incredible flows with the instrumentals of their respective bands. Their abilities feel under appreciated in not just the metal community, but music in general

Cason Handy

But don’t forget, thrash is 🗑

Diego Martinez

German thrash > American thrash

Diego Martinez

FUCKING FACTS

Diego Martinez

Does Death Grips work in the bedroom? 😳

oscos

Lego video games are underrated, most of the lego video games from the 2000s such as lego starwars, Indiana Jones and Batman are some of the greatest platformers of that era

Odd Future would’ve failed as a group if they’d continue making music as a collective today.

oscos

I feel like a lot of Hamilton fans think they're hip hop heads but still aren't completely over the fact that Kendrick Lamar says the n word.

Noah Mendell

“Reflektor” SHOULD HAVE BEEN Arcade Fire’s best album. AF moving in a dance music direction on paper is one of the best ideas for a band like them. ESPECIALLY with James Murphy on production. Or like on their latest record with Thomas Bangalter. The title track to Reflektor is easily one of their best songs ever. And it’s such a shame AF didn’t take full advantage of the opportunity

Riley Schmedeman

I always thought he had a good mix of things, although something like a more specific underrated albums video could be classified like this he usually covers general topics and at least some well known and popular artists

Brendan

Bon Scott > Brian Johnson While I appreciate what they both brought to AC/DC, I feel like the band had a much more consistent discography with Bon Scott (Powerage, Let There Be Rock, Highway to Hell). Plus, I feel like Bon has the slight edge vocally.

Matthew Wisniewski

Brian Wilson songwriting is better than Paul McCartney songwriting

Dave is easily one of the most promising and talented young artists to emerge from the UK rap scene. Psychodrama is under appreciated and should stand alongside other great rap albums released in the last decade.

Future Nostalgia is only critically acclaimed because it is nostalgia bait. As a performer, singer and a songwriter Dua Lipa is very one-dimensional and extremely generic, the production is the only saving grace and that even gets stale halfway through but everyone else seemed to think it's amazing because it incorporates 90s dance pop tropes.

Let The Sun Talk by MAVI is one of the most underrated albums of 2019. Its massive Earl Sweatshirt influence really sticks out throughout the whole project. He sounds like a clearer version of Earl. All of the soul samples around the project are carefully chosen and his flow and his lyricism were consistently great throughout the whole debut album.

oscos

"Indie music" has its own aesthetic now where bands that do not fit the "low production, old cheap look in a music video, vocal-led" are outcast by the core indie fans. It is a shame that such music is now its own stereotype, and bands that do not fit the mold are looked down upon.

Metal is one of the least "dark" generes. Singing about demons and Satan is about as edgy as singing about hating your mommy and daddy.

Seinfeld

Rock Star by Nickelback is an objectively good and fun rock song.

Danny Brown has never released a bad album and he doesn't get enough credit for that.

Alex McKee

As I’ve listened to to pimp a butterfly recently I’ve come to the opinion that mortal man is a ridiculous and disappointing closer. I think it starts off strong enough with his wants for his message to live and exist beyond him being a cool message. What gets me though is the fucking ridiculous way he so straightforwardly wraps up his main point of the record with a fake conversation with Tupac. Like really? That’s just insane. It feels like he didn’t really know how to conclude his thoughts in an interesting way. The rest of the record is great but I just hate that and even the idea is dumb.

Brendan

Live shows should be more about entertaining the audience. So many bands I've seen play their music note for note without focusing on the performative aspect of their show. A unique entertaining experience is more important than playing a note perfect recital of their songs.

Calum Hughes

Unpopular opinion: I could take you down in a wrestling match Stats: Height: 6ft 2in Weight: 300 pounds Reach: 75 inches Walk in song: Pumped up Kicks - Foster the people

The Rolling Stones are an average rock band that wouldn’t have had their success if they weren’t pioneers of popular music or were mediocre live performers; the fact that they were one of the first “stadium rock” bands and Mick Jaggers energetic live performances helped their popularity

Paul Prete

Unpopular opinion: your Let's Argue videos, especially the Patreon ones, favor opinions about specific (and often less well-known) artists and albums, over takes about music more generally, which makes them less accessible and interesting for anyone not familiar with that artist or album.

Owen W

The production on Wu Tang Forever is significantly better than on 36 Chambers

It’s H A L L O W E E N 🎃🥁

Julian Dene

Don’t sleep on Houses of the Holy😞

Diego Martinez

Boy in da Corner is a classic album. Amazingly futuristic production, great introspective lyrics, brilliant dystopian sound and overall it just goes hard.

Japanese city pop artists like Tatsuro Yamashita don’t get enough credit in the disco, funk and smooth jazz realm. Some of the best funk music came from Japan, especially in Tatsuro’s album For You!

Diego Martinez

The fallout boy 100 gecs remix is gonna be revolutionary, and the rise of 100 gecs discourse on tiktok is interesting because it shows how fanbases can develop a personality. The gecs fanbase on tiktok is super self aware and self deprecating in my experience.

Slayer is like my grandma’s vacuum. Straight out of 1980 and still sucks

Julian Dene

“Philosophy of the World” by The Shaggs is actually artistically genius

Slayer is the best and most influential metal band of all time

Bryan Gilbey

Fever Ray's self titled > TPAB

troberts44

Led Zepplein is overrated. 2 is their only good album.

Scott McEachern

Threebrain’s Weeeeee! is the best youtuber album

The Big Day was mediocre but calling it a zero is ridiculous.

Scott McEachern

Watch the Throne is quite a bit better than most people give it credit for. While not a direct aspect of the record, it’s tie in with the Great Gatsby was really unique and the majority of songs are of a really high standard for both artists.

Julian Dene

slowthai is the best features artist in the game right now, bar none. Dude is insanely consistent

Vinnie

In The Court of the Crimson King would be perfect if you replaced “Moonchild” with “In The Wake of Poseidon”

chief keef is overrated

Which would get the higher score: an album that was 50% bangers and 50% duds, or an album that was 100% just “meh” songs?

Noah W

You've talked a little bit about using tiktok to discover music, and I think a great example right now is russian post punk/new wave. There was one song circulating on tiktok from the genre, and on every popular video I saw using the sound, there were at least 3 comments asking how to find the song/similar songs. I pulled a playlist off spotify, got into the genre thanks to tiktok, and I love it. New favorite song is Prikazano by Super Besse. Anyways, I noticed the sound circulating on the skating part of tiktok, do you think this tie to a scene contributes to how much it makes people like me seek out the music used, or do you think all users are just as likely to get curious and it's all down to exposure? Apps like tiktok blend a lot of "scenes" together, which is why I'm asking lol