Angel || 4x17 || Discussion
Added 2023-02-22 18:59:01 +0000 UTC4x17: "Inside Out"
Next: Angel 4x18 on Wed 3/1
SKIP??? WHAT THE HECK MAN????? I THOUGHT WE WERE BROS????????
I can not believe this level of betrayal 😭 I AM HURT!!!
oh and Cordy gives birth this episode, whatever- CMON SKIP PLS-
lmaoooo jkjk, this episode was actually crazy. I lovedddd it. AND DARLA??? coming back to talk to Connor?? SHUT UPPPP, I absolutely loved it.
hope yall enjoyyyyy! :D
Comments
This is one of my favorite episodes in the whole Buffyverse. It’s such a fantastic exploration of the whole fate vs free will conundrum but with an actually-useful path for how to navigate the uncertainty tucked away in Gunn’s speech. As far as fictional representations of existentialist philosophy go, it’s one of the more fun ones, and dark as it is, it’s more hopeful than most.
Mitch M
2023-03-06 01:04:18 +0000 UTCSo I’m guessing Kate from the LAPD will be coming back any day now…?
Anthony
2023-03-02 13:02:40 +0000 UTCThe first was for sure lying in S3, it's whole thing is manipulating and it tried to get Angel to kill Buffy and then when he wouldn't and went to kill himself instead it literally said "this wasn't the plan" to him, and then "but we can make that work" to itself (paraphrased a bit possibly) which to me meant it was just jumping on an opportunity that something else had presented it. Skip's account I can take or leave, again I prefer the idea that certain events have been leapt upon and taken advantage of rather than it all being a perfectly executed and thought out plan.
Kongolor
2023-02-26 17:33:13 +0000 UTCThank you . I feel silly now. I was thinking it was a call back to a specific incident or experience Buffy may have mentioned at some point.
Macca Fan
2023-02-26 11:56:13 +0000 UTCI mean, both the First and Skip (on behalf of the BM) making these big claims, like bringing Angel back from hell. But the both can't be right, and both lack credibility.
Stargazer1682
2023-02-26 07:05:50 +0000 UTCIce Capades are kind of cheesy and silly. Buffy genuinely likes the Ice Capades regardless of their cheesiness; she doesn't like them in an ironic let's-mock-the-Ice-Capades way. She would not be happy if Riley went with her to the Ice Capades and then poked fun at them for being girly or silly or not a real sport, which is why Willow warns him "without the irony" specifically.
bewildered
2023-02-26 07:04:08 +0000 UTCI watched it as it originally aired, and I felt as impressed by these revelations then as a 20 something year old as I am now as a 40 something year old. I have every reason to start with Angel being brought back. That was the first Buffyverse event that went unsolved until this point. And now it makes perfect sense to me. It’s ok that you’re not a fan of that narrative. But I’m not a fan of thinking I know better than the writers and creators of the show. 🤷🏾 You’re free to write your own fanfiction and head canon as you see fit.
Fuiono Ching Sung
2023-02-26 00:43:19 +0000 UTCExcept that you've arbitrarily decided to start with Angel returning from hell when there is no good reason to start there. One could just as easily say it started with Whistler enlisting Angel to help Buffy, or when Angelus was cursed by gypsies. Heck, why stop there ? You could start with Darla siring Angelus, or The Master siring Darla and on and on and on till you arrive at the creation of the universe itself. For a plot twist like this to be properly earned, it must be adequately foreshadowed. Impossible to see on first watch but abundantly apparent on rewatches. It should feel shocking at first but then you should have a moment where you feel like everything clicks into place and it makes total sense. In my opinion, this is an obvious unplanned retcon, it feels like a cheap swerve & it disrespects the audience's investment. Why should I pay attention to the story if the writers are just going to pull any old nonsense out of their butts ? I don't know if you watched this as it aired or not, I did & I remember that this felt like a big old slap in the face.
John Alexander
2023-02-26 00:31:27 +0000 UTCMy only objection to the Beast Master Not That One having brought Angel back from hell in S3 is that it really stole a lot of mystery from Buffy S7 to me, since there seemed a very easy parallel between the First having had a plan for Spike and a plan for Angel. I mean, it clearly still does, but it turns it more into a plan of opportunity and not something it set in motion from the ground up.
Dan H
2023-02-25 23:41:28 +0000 UTCBest duo reactions would be with you and domi e. I would have loved for it to be domies next episode which is 6x07!!!😍😍
Devon Martin
2023-02-25 22:46:35 +0000 UTCI'm def in the minority here, but I actually LOVE how this episode claims all these separate events were interwoven with each other, for this specific event to come to pass. Because...if you sit back and take full stock of EVERY major thing that had to happen in order for this birth to culminate, you have: Bringing Angel back from the Hell dimension Buffy banished him to when she resealed the Acathla portal. Angel's departure from Sunnydale to Los Angeles. Cordelia moving to Los Angeles and receiving the visions from Doyle. The death of Alonna Gunn. The raising of Darla (and Angel's completion of The Trials to give Darla "a new life"). Fred and Lorne switching dimensions (Lorne's spell was necessary to "activate" the Beast's Master inside the amnesiac Cordelia). Birth of Connor (with the "new life" won in The Trials). Re-awakening of Daniel Holtz. Holtz bringing Connor to Quor'Toth and Connor's return to this dimension "of age" to mate. Wesley and Lilah's relationship. (It was necessary in order for the Beast to find Mesektet, the little girl in the red dress repping a Wolfram & Hart conduit). Skip orchestrating Cordelia's demonization and subsequent rise to a heavenly dimension, so that the Beast's Master could use Cordelia to smuggle herself when an amnesiac Cordelia is sent back to Earth. Lorne using a memory spell to make the amnesiac Cordelia remember her past, which unknowingly reawakened the Beast's Master's lost memories. The reign of The Beast. The temporary return of Angelus to aid in the destruction of The Beast. The "birth" of the Beast's Master. The illusion of free will indeed... #ThingsThatMakeYouGoHmmm
Fuiono Ching Sung
2023-02-25 20:41:08 +0000 UTCOff topic, can anyone explain what Willow means when she says ice capades without the irony in 4x7? I am having no luck finding the answer anywhere.
Macca Fan
2023-02-25 19:57:49 +0000 UTCYeah that's how I took her reaction haha.
ahmad
2023-02-25 14:59:51 +0000 UTCI think Alley both wondering why they weren't suss of Cordy's behavior and then wondering how they knew, makes perfect sense. First she's wondering how they haven't caught on, which shows that she's perfectly aware they haven't. So when they later know, it doesn't match her observation that they were NOT tipped off. It's very simply "Wait, if they were so oblivious, then how did they finally figure it out". Which matches that it was suspected at the last moment, from Cordy's recent lines. Angel's explaining how they figured it out, answers Alley's question, which proves it was a valid question despite her thinking they should have caught on sooner. Because she observed they hadn't, and Angel confirmed they weren't suspicious before, until that point.
Loves Bitca
2023-02-25 02:23:28 +0000 UTCexactly. In the end, I'm not even saying anything against the actor, it's just the character feels like it doesn't belong (which might have been what they intended, after all) but to me it feels like the showrunners were like "Oh, you think you hate Buffy's sister? wait till you meet Angel's son" that's my take anyway 😂
Armando Antunez
2023-02-24 23:38:18 +0000 UTCWhen this happened to Cordelia, I was very tempted to stop watching the show. I didn't realize it right away, but I guess she was one of the main reasons I was watching Angel.
Ron Fehr
2023-02-24 23:10:26 +0000 UTCConnor very much is the definition of traumatised youth. A giant rant about how he is cringy and there's no empathy for blah blah blah blah really implies a likewise cringy child that shouldn't procreate.
David King
2023-02-24 21:14:46 +0000 UTCDavid - Them insulting a fictional character is way better than you insulting a real person. Do better.
SpikesEcho
2023-02-24 20:59:41 +0000 UTCPoor Connor.
Jaren
2023-02-24 20:34:34 +0000 UTCTake a shot every time Alley says “oh my god”……… on second thought, better not 🤣
Vicky N
2023-02-24 17:09:57 +0000 UTCSadly your parents did
Armando Antunez
2023-02-24 04:44:14 +0000 UTCDon't Procreate.
David King
2023-02-24 04:35:42 +0000 UTCConnor is the worst character of any scripted tv series ever. I'm sorry but I feel no sympathy or empathy for him. He is beyond annyoing, cringey, and ridiculous. Skip's betrayal hurts because he was so cool, he looked like a Power Rangers villain haha!.
Armando Antunez
2023-02-23 15:28:37 +0000 UTCConnor is such a tragic character! Love the Darla scene too!
Phoenix Dawn
2023-02-23 14:26:48 +0000 UTC
