Buffy the Vampire Slayer || 7x10 || Discussion

Biting my tongue so hard right now. Ugh, damnit, no, no cannot rant until a few more episodes. Gaaaah! If you know, you know, but not sure if its too spoilery territory so shutting up.

Claire Eyles

Maybe it *could* touch MC Hammer (or whatever 'this' refers to), the opposite of everyone else. Or maybe it's the 'you' to whom he was referring.

Just like MC Hammer, then.

Richard Ashton

I've been having the same experience. I think it's partly because I usually skip season 7 on re-watches so it feels fresher, and it's become "the bad season" in my mind so my expectations are low. My thinking now is that it's not *that* bad. It's just hard to follow the great seasons that came before, especially the deep character exploration of seasons 5 and 6. If season 7 had come after season 1 (obviously with some changes for continuity), I think we would have thought it was amazing.

Marie Green

Yeah, I can come up with head-canon for the whole no-breathing thing with the explanation that vampires don't *have* to breathe, but can *choose* to breathe. But this episode and Prophecy Girl break that head canon. I am adopting your CPR explanation. :) I can't buy any in-universe explanation for this episode, but maybe the writers didn't want things to get too gory for network TV, and drowning allows lots of torture without Spike becoming a bloody/burned mess.

Marie Green

She was at the DMP in Normal Again. And lest we forget, she had knowledge she could use to blackmail to the establishment, so she probably had slightly more leeway than a regular employee.

lurker1316

Well she was searching "The First" not Delaware. It didn't bring up that result due to level of evilness but the search terms used. Lots of banks begin with "First". Not many law firms do. If any. You don't see "The first law firm of smith, jones and johnson".

Loves Bitca

"Dru"/First even states that they can't drown him, So they weren't even trying to do that or claim that. So it's more like water boarding. While Angel said vampires can't breathe, that clearly doesn't fit entirely. Spike used to smoke which requires breathing. Obviously they don't need to breathe to live. Angel should have just admitted back then that he doesn't know CPR.

Loves Bitca

I remember being shocked to see her back at the double meat palace after the riley episode so I don't think she was fired then, don't think it's explained but I choose to believe that she was still working there up until she got offered the job at the school and she decided even though it might be less money she'd rather work at the school?

Georgina Cussans

I assume the sensation of having your lungs fill with water is still deeply uncomfortable, the monkey instinct brain will still think you're drowning maybe? They're always a bit inconsistent with some vampire stuff, like when Angel becomes Angelus, they reveal it by having him bite that womans neck when she was smoking and then he exhales the smoke, which was a fucking sick way to reveal it so you kinda don't mind that it doesn't make much sense.

Kongolor

At about 20 minutes in, how is Spike being drowned by the ubervamp when vampires in the buffyverse don't breathe?

The Mad Titan

Random comment: any chance you are in a gay bar in vegas right now? If not, I’ve found your doppelgänger

Nick Velasquez

I just realized, Buffy must have totally been fired from Double Meat Palace. The Riley episode was the last we saw of it, right? I can't remember any explanation

Dusty

SMG doing that end scene, runningthrough that dialogue and looking and sounding as exhausted as you'd expect her to be was brilliant.

Dusty

I agree with Stargazer1682, I think Dream Joyce was the First.

Caleb

I think what I really like about this episode are the dreams with Joyce; because they're done in such a perfectly subtle way, as to make it plausible that it either could just be a legitimate dream, or it could be the First. I'm kind of inclined to think it was the First, mostly be feels a little less plausible Buffy would have essentially the same dream back to back like that. Not impossible, especially with everything going on, and on her mind, but to see the same person in both dreams - even if it is someone as important to Buffy as her mom - I feel like the odds would be more in favor it being the First entering her dreams, like it did in Amends. But the beauty of it is, there's no clear answer; especially the way she gets woken up at crucial moments, particularly the second time.

Stargazer1682

"I'm standing on the mouth of hell. It's going to swallow me whole...and it's going to choke on me." Always so damn good.

Nebraska

Giles providing a nice bit of lore update/exposition in this episode. Notably, the First is non-corporeal, so if can't touch anything.

Turok-han is to vampire as neanderthal is to human. No problem; just give Buffy some Black Frost beer. Anyway, whatever became of the troll hammer?

Koz

Season 7 has never been my favorite but upon rewatch I have developed more appreciation for it over time, and this go-around I think I'm liking it more than ever?? Maybe it's just Alley's enthusiasm rubbing off on me, or maybe the beginning of this season really IS that good.

Mary Kate

From what Giles told them, the vampire couldn't have been The Firstly anyway, since The First cannot touch anything. And the vampire certainly touched Buffy.

Ron Fehr

When Willow's Internet research returned The First Bank of Delaware: Delaware is the most corporation friendly state in the U.S. by far so I think the writers were making some kind of statement. It'd be more accurate for the search to return a Delaware law firm but there's already one evil law firm in the Buffyverse.

Tim St. Croix