Buffy the Vampire Slayer || 6x20 || Discussion
Added 2022-09-14 18:55:01 +0000 UTC6x20: "Villains"
Next: Buffy 6x21 on Sat 9/17
OKAYYYY so Willow in her black magic revenge era 👀 kinda love that for her but also I am so incredibly nervous 😀 Warren getting exactly what he deserves? *chefs kiss*... but I can never get anything I want on this show without something horrible going wrong sooooooooooo...... LOVE THAT 😭
This was a bonkers episode and it felt like it is setting up a lotttt for the last 2 episodes so I am sooo excited to continue on :D
Hope y'all enjoyyyyy!
Comments
Rio de Tanana, hopefully you will refrain from commenting about other people life experience. Thanks
Vicky N
2022-10-24 07:44:44 +0000 UTCHopefully you will learn about forgiveness and grace before you desperately need it.
Rio de Tanana
2022-10-23 08:28:19 +0000 UTCOooh, would love to see you react to Doctor Who ( if you haven't seen it already) Battlestar Galactica ( one of my all time fav shows besides buffyverse) Dollhouse, Firefly/serenity, Fringe, Game of Thrones (I'm assuming you've seen it though...) Handmaid's Tale And Carnival Row ( season 2 is coming out soon) HBOs Carnival is good too.
Kimberly Bellow
2022-09-23 06:26:34 +0000 UTCWell I guess you are not a fan of Firefly or Dollhouse. Alley would love both of those shows and if you love the vibe and excellence of the Buffyverse you might love them like I do.
Allan Cornett
2022-09-22 22:37:23 +0000 UTCEasy. Finish the Joss TV shows, Firefly , Dollhouse and Dr. Horribles Sing along Blog.
Allan Cornett
2022-09-22 22:27:08 +0000 UTCI feel like she would love LOST, it deals with morality and mystery and she loves going into detail in her reviews about those 2. Also the LOST fandom is still a big and dedicated one.
ahmad
2022-09-22 01:54:14 +0000 UTCI’m only wondering because I’m not sure if I’m gonna stay after she’s done with Buffy or angel
josh
2022-09-19 01:59:20 +0000 UTCHope she switches to movies. She could blow up.
Jaren
2022-09-19 01:53:10 +0000 UTCI always liked the portrayal of Willow and Tara in season 4 and 5 always as yin and yang, Tara being dressed in light colors with Willow in dark colors. And this full loss of Tara leaves nothing to balance her out so she spirals. she also fully refers to Tara as her light in this ep which is adorable. I also love the callback of "Bored, now" from her evil vampire-sona in the alterenate reality.
Mikayla Welker
2022-09-19 00:20:57 +0000 UTCI keep hoping a reactor will watch the 6 seasons of Xena, as that was a show like Buffy that mixed humor and deadly seriousness, drama, melodrama, farce and the horrors of war. Plus Lucy Lawless is magnificent, and we get early Karl Urban in 3 different roles!
Richard Lucas
2022-09-18 23:58:04 +0000 UTCThere's always the Buffy comic book series to review.
Jake Starbuck
2022-09-17 18:27:58 +0000 UTCShashank - UGH, yes 😞
SpikesEcho
2022-09-17 11:08:09 +0000 UTCIt's quite tragic from Tara's perspective. She only recently escaped her abusive family. Part of how was through the strength she found in her relationship with Willow. Then Willow turns out to also be abusive toward her, and she returns to that abusive relationship right before her death. It's like she was stuck in abusive relationships for most of her life and couldn't fully break free. Her returning to Willow just saddens me honestly.
Shashank
2022-09-17 03:19:14 +0000 UTCExactly Ron. Tara was willing to "risk the pain" and forgive Willow because she loved her. That doesn't diminish the fact that Willow has massive control and boundary issues.
Valene
2022-09-17 02:14:43 +0000 UTCOne thing that Giles once said, forgiveness isn't given because someone asks for it, it's given because it's needed. No Willow didn't verbally ask for forgiveness, but her actions said it.
Ron Fehr
2022-09-16 22:47:21 +0000 UTCYeah. While this season contains one of my favorite episodes (Once More with Feeling) it is overall one of my least favorite seasons. A lot of the writing feels lazy and ill thought out.
Will and Kim
2022-09-16 22:42:17 +0000 UTCI feel like Tara's "can we just skip it" was actually the writers speaking through her.
Will and Kim
2022-09-16 22:34:16 +0000 UTCso just wondering what are you going to watch after your done with this show
josh
2022-09-16 21:09:12 +0000 UTCSame about Willow/Tara.....and having Tara be like "can we just skip it" to speed up their reuniting was a big cop out. As much as I love Willow/Tara, Tara was clearly better off and stronger when she wasn't with Willow, and I can't find any forgiveness for what Willow did to Tara. She shouldn't have gotten back together with her. They don't make Willow sympathetic at all.
SpikesEcho
2022-09-16 19:29:26 +0000 UTCI know I am in the minority in the Buffy fandom but the double standard regarding Spike and Willow always bothered me. Spike is a soulless demon who, despite of that is capable of good deeds. Like looking after Dawn after Buffy’s death. What he did to Buffy was awful, and the fact that he regrets it immediately after is consistent. I won’t comment yet on his actions in this episode. On the other hand what Willow did to Tara was as awful to me and the fact that she never showed an ounce of remorse for it, and was rewarded by Tara forgiving her without having to do anything to earn it, never sat well with me. That was my breaking point with this character. All her actions are selfishly motivated and I am sorry but I can’t find her sympathetic. As for Buffy not willing to engage in revenge killing. She wasn’t capable of killing Ben to defeat Glory who posed a greater existential threat, it would be extraordinarily out of character to kill Warren.
Vicky N
2022-09-16 17:42:29 +0000 UTCShe knows about Willow and Wesley. In their first collab Domi reminded her that.
anticonstructivist55
2022-09-16 13:46:37 +0000 UTCAlley- “ I love strong women” Me: “let me introduce you to Wanda Maximoff 😂
Denise Whitfield
2022-09-16 07:31:39 +0000 UTCAlly, Didn’t know you didn’t know about the actors dating in real life. Now I’ve got to ask, you DO know that Willow and Wesley are married in real life, right?
Denise Whitfield
2022-09-16 06:24:15 +0000 UTCMy biggest problem with the season is Buffy's 180 on her opinion of Spike from the end of season 5. She doesn't treat him like a man, which undermines that great seen from last season. Plus, magic=druggs expect when it doesn't. Willow's problem wasn't being addicted to magic. It was being a control freak. Not using magic doesn't excuse her from trying to control Tara's mind. And this whole season, they have been undoing her arc from season 2, where she got strength and confidence from magic. Plus, it doesn't make sense. "Don't use magic to get us out of this house even though some civvy could die." "Never use it to defend yourself even in life or death situations like when Buffy went all Michael Myers in the basement." There are a few good episodes in this season, but overall, I think it just damages everyone's character arcs.
Sheriff Uchiha
2022-09-16 05:40:01 +0000 UTCNot a fan of Ms. Noxon, and here’s an example as to why. She and Jane are clearly bored of writing about Buffy, and are now wasting time on two underlings while Tara’s dead body is left alone. The show is now going out of their way to dump on Willow instead of dealing with her grief. Xander’s supposed to be Willow’s oldest friend and he doesn’t bother to ask why she’s covered in blood, or if she’s hurt. Nope.
Rio de Tanana
2022-09-16 01:26:04 +0000 UTCRob Your point is well taken. Killing in self-defense is different than intended murder. Buffy had no choice. In Checkpoint however, she could have murdered the knight, and she chose not to. She understood the difference.
Ron Fehr
2022-09-16 01:04:46 +0000 UTCIt's still an assumption that he died. It didn't show the landing. I'm not saying that he didn't die. I'm just pointing out unless we actually see it, we are just supposing that he did.
Ron Fehr
2022-09-15 22:49:57 +0000 UTCMy take on the Slayer killing humans is that If You Invoke Mystical Forces, You Invoke Mystical Justice.
Maddy Currie
2022-09-15 22:47:49 +0000 UTCDidn't show throw an axe or sword at one of them, which embedded in their chest and knocked them off the RV...?
Stargazer1682
2022-09-15 20:57:07 +0000 UTCEven in that case, it was not said or shown that they died. However unlikely, it was possible that the knights were just severely injured.
Ron Fehr
2022-09-15 18:59:21 +0000 UTCTo be fair to Buffy, the Knights that she killed were attacking and she was defending the gang. She did not hunt them down. Self defense is not the same as deliberately going out of your way to kill someone. Stray bullets have killed a lot of kids and adults over the years.
Rob
2022-09-15 18:07:31 +0000 UTCi actually read the moment that warren said 'make it go away' about katrina completely differently. i didnt think warren saying 'it' was him trying to denigrate katrina by reducing her to a thing, but instead how he is being faced with what he has done, and he emotionally can't handle it. he is feeling remorse and guilt in that moment that he has to see katrina and the 'it' he wants to go away is those feelings. i think it's one of the few human moments we get from warren. i've rewatched a ton of times and that's how i always read that moment. i was actually surprised that you read it completely differently. the reason i think this is because when we are first introduced to warren in the robot episode, warren says he grew bored of the robot and realized that he was in love with his real life girlfriend katrina for all the imperfect and unpredictable traits she had. so at one point in time, katrina was someone he deeply cared about. even in the brainwash episode, his initial goal was to get katrina back as a girlfriend. it was only after she rejects him that he tries to turn her into a sexbot for him and his friends. obviously i hate warren just as much as the next person. i just dont think the portrayal of his evil is as simple as some people are espousing. when we first meet warren he is kind of an average nerdy dude. he does things with a goal in mind, not really thinking about moral quandaries that his actions bring up. i've met LOTS of guys like this- very literal-minded and believes every question in life has a cut & dried answer. for me, that is what is so scary about warren and the trio--- their evil is so mundane and average and ignorant--- it's like they stumble onto doing evil deeds SO easily because our society is so misogynistic. it's the perfect foil for a show about a superhero girl.
that bear over there
2022-09-15 17:11:10 +0000 UTCI had a whole long comment typed out and then my page refreshed and it was lost. Hopefully I can hit on the same points. So! I think the way the murky way the show has handled killing humans/souled beings is part of what makes Buffy's hardline stance in this episode feel a bit off. It's not that I disagree with her, or think she wouldn't ultimately feel that way, its just that it doesn't feel like its written with much nuance. I'm sure some people do feel like it works for them, and that there is nuance there, but it doesn't feel that way for me personally. To begin with, Buffy has shown more than once that she is willing to kill humans or souled people when it comes to those she loves. I don't just mean the Faith situation: back in S5, she flat-out said she would kill Giles or any of the Scoobies if they came near Dawn. I get that these aren't the same as what Willow is doing, but I think it would have been more interesting to see Buffy struggle with that idea a bit more. Especially after her own experience with dying, and the way she has felt about living, I think her feeling more unsure about if she should kill Warren would make sense. Her being so clear-cut about it contributes to how it comes off as lacking nuance, imo. I think having Giles around would have helped to balance things out, as well. It wasn't the same situation, but he killed Ben and the show doesn't treat him like a horrible person for it. Was he changed by it? Sure, and he might not identify himself as a wholly good person, but he certainly isn't meant to be seen as bad either. I think the episode would have benefited from having him there to speak to Willow/the others, to hear directly from him about how killing can change you. Then it wouldn't just be Buffy making vague statements about it. Also, I think if Buffy were offering a solution other than just regular prison it would help too. She's aware *in this episode* that the human law system may not even convict him, PLUS he could be able to escape from a human prison. I mean, he may be mostly into robotics but he said himself that he has used magic, and it's not like Ethan Rayne was just sent to a regular prison. I don't see why Warren can't go to a magic prison like Ethan, it would just make more sense? Hell, they could have even tried to come up with magic solutions, whether it was some kind of spell that worked like Spike's chip, or using it to trick Warren into confessing or something. As is, Buffy's idea to just take him to prison feels very flat, even if you are morally on her side. I won't say much about the Spike stuff, though I agree that Buffy feeling okay about leaving Dawn with Spike is weird. For me, it comes off as the writing continuing to not handle the aftermath of the assault well. I think it would have worked better if maybe Buffy's immediate response had been a reactive "No!", only for Dawn (who has no idea of the situation of course) to ask where else she should go, and *then* Buffy relents despite Xander's protests. It would get us at the same place, but it would better demonstrate how much Spike's assault is affecting her and that she is concerned on some level about what he is capable of. I know that the expression she makes is meant to convey that, but like all the writing involving the assault storyline it just doesn't work for me. Lastly, the dialogue they're giving Spike "I'll show the bitch a change" is so stupid it just makes me roll my eyes.
cosmotron
2022-09-15 16:44:41 +0000 UTCIt's understandable to want revenge in the heat of the moment, but actually carrying through with it is never a good thing. It may never have happened with Warren, but he was still redeemable. People seem to see murder as the worst of all sins, but I don't agree. It is not good of course, but all sins are bad.
Ron Fehr
2022-09-15 15:37:13 +0000 UTC
