Angel || 3x17 || Discussion

Don’t know if anyone else has said, but “he can’t be dead.”… we all know he wasn’t talking about Wesley, right? It’s kinda pivotal to his arc this ep

Brandon Scott

I am absolutely 100% on Angel's side here. Wesley could have gone to him and they all could have worked out a plan to make sure Connor was safe. Wesley crossed a line when he took it upon himself to make decisions about Angel's son's safety.

David Sumner

I remember all these events, but I didn't remember just how much happens in this one episode. This episode is insane. Bonkers. Loony Tunes. Loco. Total chaos. A threat to brains everywhere. Messy. Kray kray...

UTU49

@Patrick Also Wesley could of told anyone in the group about the prophecy and he didn't. He just took the baby and ran.

Jeremy

@Patrick This show has proven time and again that prophecies can be overcome. Correct translation or not, misled or not, he completely handled this wrong.

Whitney Nottage

Let's not forget that a few weeks ago, a prophecy said the baby wouldn't be born, and yet here we are. Wes never talked to ANYONE about it. He translated the prophecy weeks ago and "did everything he could" except approach the gang. Can we really say "i know you lost your son. i know he's in a hell dimension, but... really?". Connor is in the worst hell dimension ever because of him. His SON is gone. Angel's not off his rocker for reacting like this at all.

Whitney Nottage

There are often compelling reasons to do the wrong thing. The ends can’t justify the means.

@patrick the point is that it’s a FALSE prophecy. This is literally what Wes does for a living and you don’t think he knows what a false prophecy is? Or how to find the truth if he wants to? He should’ve made better choices. I’m not changing my mind so yeah. I’m right about my observation. Wes was idiotic in this situation. I completely understand the episode and I side with Angel. You side with Wes, ok, whatever who cares? It’s not important enough to have an all day dialogue about.

Jaren

You're correct that it's incorrect. However that's what the prophecy now _is_, Jaren. So Wesley correctly translated it. If he'd translated it to what it originally had said (before Sahjan had changed it), he'd have made some very strange translation mistake. I think you completely misunderstood the episode, then.

Patrick Armbruster

@Patrick Nothing you said makes any sense. I said what I said and I’m correct. The prophecy is FAKE making it INCORRECT. 🤦🏽‍♀️

Jaren

Chris: Please remove the last sentence ("That aside..."). It's clearly talking about future stuff.

Patrick Armbruster

I'm not so sure, Angel was acting way off to the extent even Angel himself thought it was unsafe for him to be around Connor. Yeah he was wrong, but he had every reason to think he was right ( got to hand it to Sahjan for his execution on this plan), and this show is about atonement afterall. Even with a soul Angel has done some pretty bad things, it's just the theme of the show. As Lorne said "you did everything you could with the knowledge you had, just like Wesley". That aside, I love what this does for Wesley arc from here on in.

Chris Hanley

Erh... Sure. And if someone writes you a forged check, the only person at fault is the one taking the check, not the forger, eh? ;) Wesley read the prophecy _correctly_ (as Sahjan had changed it) and acted accordingly. I'm not saying he did nothing wrong, mind you, but faulting Wesley with interpreting the prophecy with exactly what it said at the time is insane.

Patrick Armbruster

Angel’s son is in the worst hell dimension because of Wes. In a sense, Wes got his child killed. That’s as good a reason as any. There’s no way that Wes did anything right, at all. He was wrong about the prophecy, he was wrong about his response, he was wrong about everything. He didn’t trust Angel enough to even try to prevent the event. And he knew Holtz wanted the baby, he’s too smart to have even believed Justine or protect Connor. I love Wes but it was wrong and there’s no justifying it.

Jaren

Everything the Loa said was true. He never confirmed that "the father will kill the son". He said "that the vampire will devour his child is inevitable", and it was right after the "earthquake, fire, blood" that Angel started drinking the spiked blood with Connor's blood mixed in.

Jeff Cornell

He is fun af villain.

Phoenix Dawn

I always saw it as the Loah not knowing the prophecy through mystic power, but through knowledge of all prophecies written or something like that. Like it can use magic to scour every prophecy book that exists in an instant to tell you the portents, maybe even understand them better than some normal people seem to translate it, but it doesn't know whether a prophecy is real or not.

Wyatt

they're not twins Kay is two years younger.

Jeremy

Sahjan is one of my favorite villains in the entirety of the ‘Verse in question.

Koz

🙀 I had no idea she was a twin

Jessie

Danielle's sister Kay was the Little Girl.

Richard Ashton

But why did the 🍔 corroborate the prophecy? Also really random but why is Danielle Panabaker name in the credits Kay Panabaker 🤔

Jessie

Totally reasonable reaction by Angel

Dan H

You should watch Charmed after you finish with the Buffyverse, I mean the Charmed that came out in the 90s, NOT the remake.

StackzDaCrook

I need a throat lozenge.

Richard Ashton

The point of slitting a throat is to cut the arteries on both sides. If you don't really know what you're doing, all you do is cut the trachea and leave them struggling to breathe. You can totally survive a throat injury like that. But saying Wesley is fine is not accurate. He's pretty fucked up.

Devin Nease

For anyone who likes trivia...the girl in the white room looks familiar? She is Kay Panabaker. If you're a fan of The Flash, you'll see the family resemblance with her sister Danielle.

Oxmustube