Angel || 3x12 || Discussion

Delete your reply to my comment. That was full of massive spoilers for stuff Alley has NOT gotten to yet.

Stargazer1682

What the fuck dude? These are some serious spoilers for Alley!!! Delete this shit. She hasn't remotely seen any of what you talked about.

Stargazer1682

So maybe I'm being a dummy but I'd always assumed that Cordy was manipulated into making the choice to become part-demon so as to prepare her to be Jasmine's vessel, no ? As you rightly point out, the whole thing is sus AF. Why would the visions send Angel insane ? Why does Cordy effectively still have 2 1/2yrs of character growth ? The best answer is that Skip never really wiped her mind & the whole scenario was designed to get her to accept becoming part-demon.

John Alexander

So I don't pay much attention to behind-the-scenes drama & stuff, at 39yrs old I've learned that way leads only to madness, disappointment & anger. So I don't know for sure but just looking at the construction of the narrative, it would seem that Holtz protege was supposed to be Kate. It makes a much more complete & satisfying arc if it's her instead of some rando.

John Alexander

Jeffrey Dean Morgan has done tons of good stuff, and I say that as someone who has NOT watched The Walking Dead or Supernatural. If you like him, he also had good roles in Grey's Anatomy and the original Watchmen movie. I once said that Jeffrey Dean Morgan was the only actor I could think of that might be able to replace RDJ as Iron Man, and somebody accused me of being a genius.

UTU49

I would agree with that the perspective on the last episode can easily depend on first impression versus re-watching it. I think I liked that episode initially, but the more I watched it, the less it made sense. And I think the big think it comes down to is the appearance that she actually "chose" to become a demon, but was really lead in that direction by the plot. She's given this whole other life and intuits the need to go to the hotel - for some reason. She finds the message she wrote on the wall in the original timeline, which is still somehow there - for some reason. And all of that leads to her finding Angel who has been driven insane by the visions - again, for some reason. And even though this iteration of Cordelia has not had the benefit of her growth over the last two and a half seasons; she never befriended Doyle and watched him die, never experienced the visions or had her mind opened to the suffering of everyone, she takes the visions from Angel. A real what if should have contrasted the person Cordelia was when she left Sunnydale, only to fall quickly into fame and back into the lap of luxury; which probably would have caused her to regress to the sort of person she was in season 1 and 2 of Buffy. As for the choice aspect, the alternative she was presented with was death, which really doesn't make it much of a choice. For some reason Skip does offer simply taking the visions away from her and letting her just be human. And that's also significant, because what would demonstrate Cordelia's growth of character if she was to choose between keeping the visions at the risk of death or being a human without any special powers? Wesley, Gunn and Fred do that every day; and Cordelia's already previously expressed fear that she has nothing to offer Angel or the team if not for the visions. So arguably the more selfless choice would be to give up the thing that she believes gives her value; and then prove that she's more than just "vision girl".

Stargazer1682

I always wonder how a group of such talented writers can, on the one hand, create the charming and hilarious murderess + her zombie bf - whom I can easily watch many more scenes of, yet on the other hand, fail so miserably at making Justine a compelling character I want to watch at all 🤔 They're clearly leaning into a formula, trying so hard to make her cool and compelling, but it's failing so bad lol

SpikesEcho

It looks like Justine would have made a good slayer. She could certainly defend herself.

Ron Fehr

I've heard Cangel mentioned on other reaction videos, but to me it's too close to Bangel.

Ron Fehr

I miss filler stuff too. Sometimes it was really good and it made the overall story feel not so rushed.

Terri

Still watching the episode, but in case it doesn't come up I didn't want to lose the thought. The reason they hired triplets (just like the Olsen twins) is that child labor laws only allow you to have a child work X hours. So they get twins/triplets etc so that the same face can be acting longer than a single performer could legally.

Richard H. Stevens

One thing I honestly miss from most shows these days are filler episodes with most shows being around 10-13 episodes now its hard to get them. I really like this episode pretty sure the end scene was when I started to ship Angel and Cordelia pretty hard

Stacey

I personally like Corgi, like the dog haha

Is Corgel a good name for Cordy/Angel?

The Mad Titan

Works for me either way 😁🤷‍♂️😁

Jon Freezin-Rain

Fanfiction? Do you possibly mean headcanon? haha

Ritchie

Just a thought. Cordy is half demon is your personal fanfiction. The line in the show is part demon. My fanfiction is she's 5%

Jon Freezin-Rain

lol right?! "What is our priority?" "These 5 things." "Do you know what 'priority' means?"

Mary Kate

Her name is JUSTINE, and she is one of the most popular and beloved characters in the entire Buffyverse! (sorry I will stop ragging on Justine at some point ... maybe)

Mary Kate

Also, I hate money hungry Angel.

Nebraska

Angel :Adding to the list of number 1 priorities. Me: Am I at work? Is this my team meeting?

Nebraska