Buffy the Vampire Slayer || 6x08 || Discussion

This episode is where I start jonesing hardcore for season 1 rewatches. Mainly to see Willow at her start again. That cute little innocent starry eyed girl we all loved so much. We've been watching the magic everyone has warned her against since season 1 slowly drag her down. Now, we are faced with the fact that all those warnings weren't just people being prudes. There are consequences and we just got slapped in the face with one of the earliest consequences of her flaunting of any limits. Crazily enough, this was foretold right in the pilot. When she shows that she used her knowledge of computers to hack the city's database for fun, she showed that in her core, she respects no limits on her gather of knowledge. We all loved how brainy she was, but this failing has been built into her character right from the start.

Jordan Haddow

"and I think im kinda gay" is the same line willow said about vamp willow in season 3 episode 16 "doppelgangland". So that was some really good foreshadowing. lol

I was so team Angel that I was anti-Riley and anti-Spike. But after re-watches, I came to appreciate how Spike has so much character development. They have so many more life-together moments, not just high-drama bangle speak.

This was in my head all week after watching this, and then yesterday it was playing at the grocery store, so it's once again in my head lol

Gwenhwyfar Aine

Exactly. Spike sang that she makes him feel, while she sang that she just WANTS to feel.

Loves Bitca

This. Buffy is numb and looking for any kind of feeling she can get.

Kara Michelle

to be fair, and i say this as a committed biker (and i think any but the most rabid biker would agree), i don't think this is buffy 'giving into her feelings'. absolutely i think there's sexual tension there and has been for years, but i think the whole point of 'i want to feel' and 'i want the fire back' is that at this point, buffy feels nothing, and craves some kind of intense feeling. that's only been intensified by the brief moments of forgetting that she had, and then the utter pain of her depression flooding back. hence, spike. i think she likes him - they've clearly been best friends this season so far - and she's attracted to him, but i haven't read this as 'buffy finally letting go and coming out of denial' since i was 12 and desperately romantic. their relationship is unhealthy on multiple fronts here - spike is by turns romantic and resentful, and always obsessed (and always a compelling and interesting character with a great dynamic with buffy, which is why i'm so fascinated by their relationship) and buffy is completely and utterly depressed and self-destructing right now (i'm not saying she doesn't like him or it disgusts her like other people think - i think the idea of spike disgusts her more than he does himself. indulging in her attraction to him considering what he stands for is disgusting to her, making that indulgence self-destructive). their bestieism in the first bit of this season is my favourite side of their relationship at this point in time, but spike makes it clear in OMWF that it's driving him to distraction. it's not healthy, he's not happy with the genuine affection she's giving him (contrast that to him saying he'd be happy with a crumb... hmm, i smell a lie) and she cannot healthily give him any more. having said all this, i find this problematic relationship absolutely compelling and fascinating and i could talk about it for ages - clearly. smg and jm are such fantastic, charismatic actors. and jm somehow makes a sympathetic character out of spike, who is objectively not worthy to lick buffy's shoe. it's sort of dangerous - makes it too easy to root for a quite a volatile dynamic. but great to watch. in other news, tara remains one of my favourite fictional characters of all time. she's perfect. she's never done anything wrong ever. she's the best person and best friend.

Does anyone else have Michelle Branch and OMWF songs stuck in their heads?

Rob

Oh crikey I'm late again! i didn't expect this to be so soon after Once More With Feeling ! But very excited to see it up now! :D

Bellatronics

Once More With Feeling is the one and only Buffy episode that was intentionally a bespoke 16:9 aspect ratio. The PAL region DVD's put the whole show in 16:9 and then the so-called HD remaster put the show in 16:9 again, but with a completely different (see also: worse) cropping of the frame. But OMWF is the only one meant and envisioned for 16:9. When you say that it's not clicking with Willow that her actions made this happen, I think the opposite. I think it's definitely clicking that her actions made this happen and that's what's making her so desperate for a quick solution. She wants to escape the consequences, the feeling of responsibility, and the feeling of guilt. If she can make it all better then she won't have to feel that guilt. It's tough to see Willow make bad choices, but at the same time I respect when shows let characters make mistakes and screw up in ways that are entirely their own fault. I think it makes for interesting characterization and creates room for meaningful character development. Life is messy and people don't always make wise choices. And of course it's cool to have fiction that doesn't go into the messy things. That's fine and sometimes I want those kinds of stories. And yet I don't see a lot of stories that really let characters make deeply bad choices with heavy and lasting consequences, so it always stands out to me when I see one that does. It can be rough to watch, but I also appreciate it in some ways. That said, I do think it's reasonable to feel frustration when you're seeing characters making mistakes and knowing as the audience that they could be making better choices. Willow screwed up tremendously and it's absolutely fair to be frustrated by that. As for problematic ships: I think I said this before on a YouTube video, but it's cool to enjoy things in fiction while knowing they wouldn't be good in reality. Mindfulness is important in media consumption, but we're all capable of critical thinking and can revel in stories of the dramatic, the angsty, the unsettling, or even the dangerous while still being mindful of the fact that real life standards are higher for good reasons.

lurker1316

Or Surprise, Becoming, Graduation Day, etc?

Cory Garron

At the time of airing I really did not like Buffy getting with Spike. It just felt wrong. After many rewatches I do understand the reasoning. Goodbye to You… Ugh! After 20 years this song still chokes me up! The ultimate break-up song. I love it but it carries such sadness with it. Michelle Branch is always a win.

Rob

Alley from 10:00 - 17:00: Im literally so sad rn, im gonna cry, i hate this show. Alley from 50:00 - onward: literally this is the best day of my life, i am so happy rn, i love this show. As always, an amazing reaction! I was basically holding my breath until the very end, waiting for Alley to see that camera in the Bronze just pan around...

Lydia Anderson

Has Alley watched the Mutant Enemy tag at the end of The Body?