Lucifer 5x08 "Spoiler Alert" Full Reaction
Added 2021-08-13 21:01:34 +0000 UTC
Comments
Thanks for the great reaction (again.) Just my two cents towards the comments above: If we accept (and we should!) that Dan isn't a villain for shooting Lucifer or that Amenadiel isn't being terribly narcissistic and inconsiderate by freezing and not trying all to unfreeze time largely because both of them did these things after experiencing SIMPLE plans of manipulation by Michael, I strongly feel we need to do the same about Maze's actions especially as she's doing this after an ELABORATE campaign of manipulation; he's been very explicitly manipulating her all through 5A! Fundamentally, this turn is NOT about Lucifer being terminally self-centered or withholding info about Lilith (though obvs that didn't help.) This is truly about fear-stoking Michael preying on a person who we knew since Ep 1 is seriously lonely and suffering - Maze is fundamentally deeply AFRAID demons don't matter as much as other types of people, and that her only real chance at a romantic relationship has abandoned her. He made it feel like he's the "only one who's ever been honest with me", the only one who believes she DESERVES a soul, the one who cares enough to want to help her get a soul. This flavor of manipulation, the "I'm the only one you can trust," happens to abused people all the damn time in real life. This is nothing like Cain (which, ugh, terrible.) It's not like she likes Michael nor suddenly is cool with his actions nor is trying to hurt Chloe or Linda or Charlie or whoever. She (so far at least) has only backed him up in a single fight! It's always been said throughout the show that celestials fighting on earth would made God furious, so it seems possible that Michael just conned her into having a prolonged enough of a supernatural fight, telling her God could give her a soul? For someone who has been twisted this much by Michael, it seems real logical (again, maybe? he's tricky.) ....sorry for the many words, I just hated Maze the first three seasons and suddenly loved her in 4/5 so I have a LOT of feelings about her connection to Michael and this fight specifically. thankss
Clam
2021-08-21 22:16:24 +0000 UTCI think the issue is they jumped the gun with Pierce and Maze and makes more sense she aligned with Michael. Problem is that storyline came first so it took out some of the oomf of good story this time around it could have been
Glorie Bluestein
2021-08-20 04:24:49 +0000 UTCand then we had to wait for episode 9...........
Glorie Bluestein
2021-08-20 04:16:33 +0000 UTCI loved your reaction to God (and really everything.) Did you take notice in the credits all those great shots in the fight scenes were thanks to Kevin Alejandro who pulled double duty and directed as well as gave us Dan pulling himself together. I'm really frustrated with Maze. I get her being mad at Lucifer for his "just a demon" comment and the ring really was just Lucifer keeping his word but I can get her being upset but Michael just kidnapped Chloe and she still took Michael's side. I'm tired of "Maze turns against Lucifer" it's been done almost every season.
G A
2021-08-14 14:46:11 +0000 UTCSpoiler Alert- Thank you so very much for your reactions for this fantastic episode of Lucifer, and for all of your reactions for Lucifer so far as well, Liam!! I have loved re-watching this phenomenal show with you, and I am so happy that you have loved your journey as well. And I really love this episode very much too! Now... I would like to write out more of my thoughts for this episode when I am able to, but for now, there are a few points I would like to talk about. I absolutely love this episode overall. Especially the battle between Lucifer and Amenadiel versus Michael and Maze in the ending is just incredible. From the fight and the actors' movements, to the special effects shown with the glass shattering when Maze forces Lucifer through it... phenomenal! However, there are a few key points I would like to point out that really bothers me... First... So many fans of this show are always so quick to judge Lucifer for constantly being so cold and unfeeling towards Maze throughout this show, and in this episode when he reminds her that she's just a demon and that demons don't get souls. Yes... this is harsh and I don't pretend to think otherwise. Lucifer can certainly be selfish, which I have said all along. And he can be unfeeling and careless in his words, but he doesn't mean to be. Lucifer never wants to hurt those closest to him. He just tends to speak everything on his mind without really thinking his words through. In this episode... Maze questions Lucifer about her gaining a soul when he is so worried and panicked about Chloe, so of course he isn't thinking clearly enough to really talk with her about this under better circumstances. Plus... Maze is already angry with Lucifer for reasons that are not his fault, and she would have taken any answer he offered her badly no matter what he said and when. Maze has no patience or understanding in regards to her own feelings when she becomes angry with anyone, especially Lucifer. She's the same as Lucifer when it comes to their character being selfish, and all of this stems mostly from them being who they are and having lived in Hell for a few millenia. Also... Maze, as well as Amenadiel always make this mistake of talking to Lucifer about important things during the wrong times often throughout this show. Another example is back in season two's episode... Weaponizer, when Maze attempts to convince Lucifer to return their mother to Hell and Amenadiel tries to talk to Lucifer about having become fallen, until Lucifer callously says he can't talk to them right then because Chloe's life is in danger. I mean... come on! Chloe's life was in danger then too, and we all know how blind Lucifer becomes to everything else when it comes to Chloe because of how much he truly cares about her. Not to mention when Maze keeps Lucifer locked inside the freezer so she can vent to him about Linda and Amenadiel getting together back in season three's episode... The Sinnerman. Lucifer was so worried about Chloe and about the Sinnerman taking everything he loves away from him too. Ugh!! Plus... Lucifer most likely answers Maze about demons gaining a soul with complete honesty like he always answers every question, because I am sure as far as Lucifer knows, demons can't gain a soul, since no demons ever have before. Maybe it is possible, maybe it's not. But I doubt Lucifer would know if it is. Most likely only God can answer this dilemma. So in all honesty... I really get frustrated with Maze for trying to talk with Lucifer about her gaining a soul in this episode, when he's so worried about Chloe and focused on trying to find her and working out who took her. Especially since he's afraid that she had been taken by the serial killer before they discover it was Michael who takes her to punish Lucifer. If Maze would have taken time to talk with Lucifer about this when everything is all good between them, or in a quiet time when no one's life was in danger, I'm sure they could have worked out their differences in a very different way. And yet even then... I doubt Maze would have listened to him or would try to understand him then too. Now... I do love Maze as a character overall. I don't want you to think that I don't. I especially love her character throughout all of season two and in season one too, because even without a soul, Maze is so good and season two shows us she can be happy and have a family without a soul. So for me... I really feel that her arguments of losing everything she has in season three when she turns against everyone and feels like everyone has betrayed her is all moot. Maze loses everyone because of her own choices and actions, not just because she is simply a demon without a soul. Because she's proved she can be happy without one. In my opinion, Maze has betrayed Lucifer and everyone else one too many times now. Of course I can forgive her first betrayal like Lucifer does from when she first betrays him by telling Amenadiel about Linda back in season one. And while I love the scene between Maze and Linda inside Linda's office when Maze finally apologizes to Linda for hurting her so much in season three's finale, I honestly think Maze goes too far and hurts far too many people to just be forgiven so easily. However, I could have even forgiven her fully for her mistakes throughout season three if she had continued to work towards making it up to everyone and staying on her path to redemption, but then she betrays Lucifer and Chloe yet again in the end of season four by helping Eve to break Father Kinley from the prison van, knowing that he was being transported to the police station in hope of helping Lucifer when he was struggling so deeply with turning full Devil. And yet she is never reprimanded or held accountable for her actions in helping Kinley to escape. Indicating that Lucifer doesn't hold it against her. And then of course... Maze yet again betrays Lucifer and Amenadiel, and finally turns her back on them and all of her friends like Linda, Chloe, Trixie, and Dan for a final time in this episode when she sides with Michael, and fights against those who have been her closest friends no matter what. All because she's angry with Lucifer for holding back the truth about her mother, when he had given Lilith his word not to tell anyone... especially her own children. All of this makes me wish that the writers would have chosen to write Maze's character as a major antagonist throughout this show, instead of choosing to have her character flip flop so often. Maze is a little too wishy washy for me by this point in the show, and I would have preferred to see her become full on demon against Lucifer and everyone else much, much sooner in the show. Lesley-Ann Brandt as Maze is fantastic. However, it is for these reasons that Maze has grown to become my least favorite character among the major characters all throughout Lucifer, while Lucifer and then Chloe remain my absolute favorite characters. I know that for most fans of this show, Maze is everyone's favorite. I just feel very differently. In regards to the whole Pete being a psychopath serial killer storyline... I knew something was off with Pete from the moment he was introduced back in episode six... BlueBallz. I didn't expect him to turn out to be a serial killer, at least not until Chloe reveals she feels like their case from Our Mojo wrapped up too easily. But I knew Pete was up to no good all along. I really like Ella's storyline that is brought about throughout this season, so I appreciate Pete's character for that reason, but as a character himself... I really hate him. And not just because he's a bad guy who hurts and nearly kills Ella. I just hate him as a character overall. I really wish this show's creators and writers had written his character much differently. And lastly... while I understand Chloe's fears about her relationship with Lucifer and his feelings for her, all thanks to Michael getting into her head, I really hate that Chloe can't see just how much Lucifer really does love her. I mean... he's proven to her that he does in so many ways without saying the words. Chloe may not fully know about how much he's truly done for her yet, but Lucifer has died for her twice, went back to Hell for her three times, and has even killed his own brother to protect her. And Lucifer has proven to Chloe how much he is willing to sacrifice for her time and time again, including back in season four's episode... Somebody's Been Reading Dante's Inferno, when he rushes in front of the ax thrown by the killer in order to protect her and then tells her that he would do so again and again. This after all is what finally convinces Chloe to stop plotting with Father Kinley against Lucifer, so she does know how much he loves her. Plus... Lucifer had been vulnerable around Chloe ever since season one;s fourth episode... Manly Whatnots, and yet despite being vulnerable, Lucifer has chosen to stay close to Chloe and work with her. To be with her even though he is vulnerable. He could have run away to protect himself, but he loves her. Words are nice, but they aren't necessarily what is most important. I believe that Lucifer struggles to say the words... "I love you", not because he doesn't love her, but because he struggles to fully understand what love truly is and the emotion behind his love for her. Just like Lucifer struggles so deeply with any kind of emotion. Of course Lucifer knows what love is... meaning that he understands the definition of love, and I feel that a part of him of course knows he loves Chloe because he is willing to sacrifice everything, including his own life and soul for her as he has proven time and time again. And he does tell Chloe that she has always been his first love, not Eve. However, a part of Lucifer also struggles to understand the feeling of love, because until Chloe... he's never really felt loved before. He never felt loved by his own family and he had been cast out of Heaven and into Hell, then was vilified for all eternity and forced to become a torturer and punisher... a monster that Lucifer really isn't at heart. Because he is truly a good man. An angel. He has hated himself for eons because everyone, including himself and his own family all see him as a monster. And then... when Chloe at last sees his Devil face upon its return, she freaks out and turns against him. Betrays him when she nearly helps Father Kinley to send him back to Hell in spite of their closely knit friendship and bond over the last several years. And because Lucifer does feel for her so deeply, he's so heartbroken because of her betrayal and yet he still finds it in his heart to forgive her over time. So for Lucifer being unable to say the actual words... it isn't because he doesn't love her, but because he doesn't fully understand his love for her. And I suspect that because he doesn't lie, he probably can't say the words until he can fully grasp the meaning behind them. Plus... I doubt Lucifer wants to tell her for the fist time while feeling pressured to do so. Knowing him... he would want to say them for the first time in a very romantic setting. Although, with all of this being said... Lucifer does appear to be about to say the words to Chloe anyways in hope of saving their relationship, just before time freezes and the big battle begins. So... here's something more Lucifer is about to sacrifice for Chloe in order to offer her what she needs to feel how much he does love her. I hope all of this makes sense. I'm sorry for the long rant, but I hope you enjoy my comments. This is a phenomenal episode and I just love all of these characters in spite of the things I might not like about how their characters are written at certain points within this show. And now I am especially excited to get to know God too! Why has He come, and is He a part of Michael's big plans? Has Lucifer been right about Him being a cruel manipulative bastard all along, or does He truly want what's best for all of His children, including Lucifer? I can't wait for you to continue so you can find out!!!! Thank you so much again for your incredible reactions for Lucifer, dear friend!!! Thank you! Sincerely, Heidi
Heidi Elizabeth Marcum
2021-08-13 23:36:16 +0000 UTCAnd this where Lucifer and Amendiel point to Michael and yell "Michael started it!"
Frank Tremel
2021-08-13 22:16:22 +0000 UTC
