Experiment - simpler model access via shop
Added 2024-11-11 16:21:05 +0000 UTCHi everyone,
I recently discovered patreon has a "shop" feature, allowing to give access to single items in an easier way than the current "on demand" system.
As a test, Aurore Cassel & Shadowheart can now be accessed from the shop section on my page. These are the most requested models so they're a good starting point.
On the horizon, this would allow to replace current tiers 5-7, which are a terrible system, but the only somewhat working solution I could find back then.
Prices will vary from 2.5 € to 5.5 € depending on how old the model is, the number of outfits, overall interest and rarity. Given the market prices I see elsewhere, the models are objectively worth way more but I decided to keep it low. It's also cheaper than tiers 5-7, especially if you're not interested in current rewards.
The models come with all textures packed in, as well as required addons.
To talk a bit about the current situation and the future :
Reducing the release rate to something more reasonable was helpful for my sanity but people seem generally dissatisfied with the state of rewards.
I guess I'm partly the one to blame for offering so much for so little money for years. Now some feel like I'm ripping them off.
Reading the exit surveys sometimes hurt, and as my motivation is still unstable, I'm often on the verge to stop everything on a whim. Almost did a few days back.
Anyway, maybe all tiers will disappear in favor of the shop in the end. I do not wish to go back to promising X models each month and I still feel pressured to release stuff despite changing the tier rewards.
At least, with the shop, the models would still be available if I decide to quit. And on a lighter note, deleting tiers would allow me release stuff at my own pace without worrying about rewards...we'll see.
Comments
Whatever keeps you motivated is best. Do what you want to do and if it works out post something to the store sounds fine by me. You may want to consider other stores beyond patron, which might increase traffic. I have supported you for awhile and have all your stuff. I am more interested in complete blender scenes at whatever price you think is fair. I really like your renders and appreciate the opportunity play around with the scenes and learn from you. I would even pick up your Maxine scene if you added it to the store. You provide a whole eco system that includes outfits and poses. Who else does that for blender? That is a tremendous service that goes well beyond just pumping out models. Feeling pressure to produce to keep your supporters happy is a bitch. Do what makes you happy and those who appreciate what you do will stick around and enjoy the ride. You could consider a free or low EUR patron for news, wips and artful renders. Then put everything else in the store and let people buy what makes sense to them. You could even add the pose and outfit libraries to the store. People who find value in that can buy those too.
Mat
2024-11-16 23:18:22 +0000 UTCThanks for your comment. What you describe is indeed what I imagined the future would be. And glad to know you're having a great time with the models and UI overall. I'm trying to improve over time. Funny to think 5 years ago I knew nothing about python or weight paint.
LeGuymelef
2024-11-16 20:49:14 +0000 UTCThis honestly seems like a great feature that's almost tailor-made for this stuff! It you're not primarily interested in patron retention and just want to be paid proper for your labour (something no one should fault you for) this could very much serve to clean up the tiers. I'm sure you have plans of your own pertaining to this, but I could see a structure wherein you have a supporter tier of some sort that's effectively a tip jar, then a higher tier for access to X amount of newer models, where those models will over time be bumped off that "exclusive" list to instead end up in the shop. This could serve to spare you all the administrative work (something that is truly draining) of people requesting "on-demand" models at those higher tiers. Hell, I'm sure you could arrange the shop into some kind of cost structure where newer models would be more expensive than older ones - you'd of course know better than me how to structure this stuff, at the end of the day, taking into account what models you deem more popular than others etc. I want to note that as far as my experience goes, your models are consistently high quality and among the easiest to work with, with the least amount of hassle involved. They have a few quirks here and there, but there's no model lineup from any creator that doesn't have its own nature, and being an animator means taking that into account for your work. I'm not a programmer but I also want to say that your UI addon seems incredibly stable compared to what's out there, where I've on the regular been bombarded with python script errors and similar when trying to work with some other creators' custom UI functions. In that sense, I do hope you stick around as I think you quitting would be an immense loss for the scene, all in all.
DH
2024-11-16 12:02:13 +0000 UTCI invite you to carefully read the stickied post, what I gathered from your posts is that you probably didn't install the shared textures or you didn't use the correct UI panel. Again, I'm willing to fix issues if there are some but I don't see any from my side and unless you point specific issues that I can check, there's nothing I can do. Edit : double checked Haruka once again with a different blender version and downloaded it as a user would...no major issue to report.
LeGuymelef
2024-11-14 15:26:23 +0000 UTCThat's great, though through all my testing of various models of yours, very few have functioned well for me. I've tried different Blender versions, deleting and reinstalling your add-on, messing with modifiers, all that. While model making is my forte, I have perseverance, and I couldn't possibly count the amount of hours I've tried troubleshooting and asking around on two hands. Very rarely have I gotten something up and running, and I really don't think this is just a me issue considering I've spoken with a few mates who gave up much sooner than I did. I don't know what it is, either the system is too difficult for the average joe to understand or the system is flawed. For prices that can get quite steep for some people (I never grabbed the entire portfolio, nor do I think most did), it really doesn't feel like your portfolio is incredibly reliable functionally. Not your entire portfolio, mind you. I played around with Sam Nishimura, and that worked like a dream, which only mystified me even more. She still does! Who knows, maybe collectively, its failed on that particular group who just didn't get it! I guess I'll never truly know.
akkonsfw but she’s NOT mr. beast
2024-11-14 13:34:37 +0000 UTCWhile I do understand your point and legacy models should be advertised as such, they are not broken. I tried Haruka since you mentioned her and aside IK wonkyness (easily fixed), it works fine. No missing textures, expressions work, IK switch works, hairstyles and outfit are handled correctly, makeup options, wetness, pose library etc. Yes a few sliders do nothing because it's literally the oldest model of all at this point but the UI warns you about that. The features that do work are fine and that's the majority. The main issue I found is corrective shape keys for outfit library don't seem to work. Haruka is freely available on smutbase though, just saying. Tried amanda too, no problems whatsoever. I'm more than willing to correct bugs or missing textures if I know about them. Trying Haruka, I noticed an issue with the IK fix in the UI that I'm gonna fix by the way. Saying the models are broken is definitely false however. And imo, for what you get, my prices are still really cheap. I've seen models that go up to 60 for roughly the same functionalities and ease of use.
LeGuymelef
2024-11-14 11:54:34 +0000 UTCThe shop is a good solution, though I think the main issue overall after the price hike is the overall value and functionality. A LOT of your older library is offered for a higher, steeper price now — as much as the big players offer, however, they are far less functional. I know keeping a BUNCH of models up to date and functional is a difficult process, fixing issues and making sure they look good enough for modern versions. I see people saying the amount of content makes the value high, but a lot of that content from my experience, is not particularly functional and essentially paperweight. However, I think it’s a necessary evil that a lot of your library works well enough if you’re gonna hike up the prices a lot, or else you’ll sell a lot of broken products without the customer knowing, especially if you never clarify it to them. It was far easier to shrug off a broken model or two (broken/nonfunctional shape keys, bad shaders, hair cards messing up, no vagina textures and the rigs not working whatsoever) when they were far cheaper — with higher prices comes higher expectations. I know a fair few who ask around for your models instead of grabbing them from you directly for a multitude of reasons. Either the price for the library is too high for that ONE model, don’t know which tier it is in or they’re afraid that the model is too broken and don’t want to take the risk blowing a chunk of change. Personally, I don’t think you should be offering models that have not been updated in years and are not guaranteed to even function properly without warning. Your Haruka, Tracey, Amanda and such are characters I’ve cancelled numerous pics for due to model issues that make them a pain to use. To date, your Dragon Age Morrigan model has been the most pain-in-the-butt experiences in my entire career, and that really sucks. When you hike up the price of your archive and don’t add/change the product enough so the customers feel like it was justified, then they are not going to be satisfied. I hope that with the shop becomes a better solution for you and the average customer, and will see you update your back catalogue consistently enough so that they run smoothly enough on newer versions of Blender. Buying them directly for $7-10 is definitely a lot easier and simpler for the artist who wants ONE particular model for cheap. I really hope it isn’t much to ask that if i’m paying a lot of money for something, that I want the product to mostly function well. I think you sold yourself short a bit with your old prices, and a price increase was definitely in the cards. In my opinion though, it was not handled or introduced well. Please be aware that I don’t mean this in malice. I wish you the best, mate.
akkonsfw but she’s NOT mr. beast
2024-11-14 09:08:34 +0000 UTCDon't worry I didn't want to suggest that you want to retain people. But having a link is important. Your fan will follow you, and this way you'll be able to feel what they want better. And money is not just to have money. It's also an easy way to know the people who count on you and will care for you. People who don't pay don't really care and are always rude and angry. The small fee is a way to know for you who your real fans are. It's just my 5 cents. ^^
Rork
2024-11-13 17:58:25 +0000 UTCSure, what's a 100 years right ? Joke aside the value is somewhat subjective I guess, I don't know people's financial situation so it's hard to judge. Still, it's a bit frustrating that the content I provide aside from models (UI updates, renders, outfit library updates etc.) appear irrelevant to some. I agree on your last point, that's what I was trying to do with the new tier rewards, it somewhat worked but not entirely...I'll have to give it some more thought but the shop would be a great step forward at least.
LeGuymelef
2024-11-13 12:55:21 +0000 UTCJust wanna say that I'm not trying to do retention at all. If people are only interested by one model, I don't see why they would keep giving me money. Some of my decisions may give that impression but I'm not after people's money, I just feel like the work I put into models is worth something. It wasn't the case at all when I started so there weren't any tiers and people just gave whatever they thought was fair, which was usually the minimum allowed. Today the situation is different and I'm confident that models, combined with the UI and libraries are something that you won't find elsewhere. Regarding the tiers I'll keep your idea in mind. The "free tier" already exists. Having the latest models for a cheaper price is also interesting I think but we'll see.
LeGuymelef
2024-11-13 11:53:26 +0000 UTCI'd say so yes. The current system is bad for everybody.
LeGuymelef
2024-11-13 11:35:40 +0000 UTCThanks for the support and I'm glad if the models help you make the content you want. It's not really that I think my models are bad, but more that people's expectations regarding release rate don't match with my current rythm anymore. I can understand why from a certain point of view, but I'd say on the counterpart that the content is a bit more diverse now and not limited to models. Making models was never really my goal, it's just a means to an end, the end being making renders. Turns out people were interested by my models and slowly I ended up being a model maker. So much so that I couldn't make renders anymore and that was frustrating, combined with an increasingly hard goal monthly releases that led to a lot of pressure and the end of any free time.
LeGuymelef
2024-11-13 11:34:30 +0000 UTCI appreciate the sentiment. Exit surveys come from people who were patrons though so they did spend money, but considered the content wasn't enough anymore. I can't say I like being in that position although I understand the current rythm is nowhere near what it was and the frustration it may generate. I'd say quality improved over quantity but not everyone will see it or care for it given the majority of content produced with the models. I was in a bad state when I made the tier changes and did a 180°, maybe I need to reajust the cursor a bit in the other way.
LeGuymelef
2024-11-13 11:19:44 +0000 UTCAll good things eventually comes to an end... Though this feels too early even thinking about it already! (which it always does when something good is about to end) :-( Your content has always been good and also very affordable. I hope you will have the willpower to keep it running for another 100 years (it's not as long as it sounds). Making things affordable is not a bad thing, the higher the prices become, the more activity and content automatically is expected. But as of now, any honest people would understand that this expectation cannot be that skyscraper high. Since the content is still very affordable even with your reduced release rate. The value of it all is still very high. Is there anything we can do to help out ease the effort? I mean if this is something you still are interested in and want to keep doing, do it with your own pace, on your own terms. Bashing your head against a wall continuously just to satisfy everyone is not going to work. That will only inevitably kill your motivation to continue.
Floke
2024-11-13 01:12:43 +0000 UTCThe idea is good. But be aware that some people who would support you all year may just buy 1 model or 2 a year, because the others don't interest them. My humble advice is to continue, aside the shop, to have a cheap single tier (like $2 per month), just to give news from time to time, and allow people to have access to your clothes/pose library up to date. Then a free tier for new models announcements.
Rork
2024-11-12 06:45:14 +0000 UTCI'm all for the shop idea. Seems like a much cleaner way to accomplish the system you're already using.
Guy
2024-11-12 01:54:57 +0000 UTCI'm sorry you feel this way, that you're somewhat demotivated and feeling pressured to release stuff. I can kinda relate to these feelings. I know it's very hard to get motivated in this state. When I get there what usually brightens my day is when someone reminds me that what I'm making isn't as "worthless" and "bad" as my stupid brain makes it out to be - so with that said, you really do make some of the best models out there. At least for me personally. They're always super high quality, so so easy to work with thanks to the pose library, the ability to tweak the models, especially the feets (probably my fav part of your models). I'm still a big noob with 3D art and I'm still learning, so things like posing and making it look natural is incredibly hard for me - if not for your models and the pose library that make things a bit easier, I probably would have given up. It's helped me so much, and it made things just easy enough for me to want to stay and continue playing around in Blender for a while longer. So, what you're doing and the work you're putting in, I truly do appreciate and its helped me a lot. 'm super grateful for that, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I hope this makes you feel somewhat better, and gives you some perspective into how awesome your stuff really is. P.S. I'll definitely check out the Aurora model soon. 🤗
Ubi
2024-11-11 20:15:51 +0000 UTCPeople who complain about prices, or feel insulted by them, probably would've never bothered to pay any amount. They also probably do nothing with them to justify the price. As long as you're making content, interested people will come for it, even if it takes time to build a new audience.
Angel Mora
2024-11-11 20:00:00 +0000 UTC
