[YT Edit] Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

Everyone has mentioned their dad here, so I will as well. My Dad saw the first one in theaters with my grandpa. My Dad enjoyed The Force Awakens the first time he saw it. He liked The Last Jedi the first time he saw it. Then The Rise of Skywalker happened and he hated the prequel trilogy. He thought it was a waste for it all to lead back to Palpatine. For him, the worst was the desecration of Anakin's redemption. Now he even ranks Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith over The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker. Even Phantom Menace he ranks over Rise of Skywalker, which is funny because that was his most hated one. He still likes The Last Jedi, but he admits it's because it was the exact same storyline as The Empire Strikes Back, which is his favorite. But, he also says that they lacked imagination and he wanted a different story than what came out of the sequels.

Joseph Rardin

I like when you observed she had "a lot of power"...yes, too much.

Joseph Rardin

@Mike Hey Mike, I've tried to respond to you but it keeps getting removed. Basically speaking, there are some extremely well done videos on youtube to which I referred who do deep dives on why the sequels, including SW:TFA are failures. Since when I try to give links, it apparently deletes my reply, I'm left to giving you a title and strongly encouraging you to watch, and do so with an open mind (Star Wars A Critique of the Sequels is my favorite, with Why Disney Star Wars Failed: A Critique from a former fan as the runner up). Of course, if you're looking to argue, there are plenty of people in the comments section of both to do it with, and doubtlessly it will be arguing with people who are far more educated on the subject than I. When it boils down to it, I really just didn't like Rey (I come from poverty and had to work very hard for everything I have, and it took decades of it to get where I am), and found SW:TFA and SW:TLJ forgettable at best. Honestly, after 3 watches of each, trying to give an honest effort to finding them enjoyable, I can barely remember what happens in each, so I'm hoping to pass the torch to those more knowledgeable than myself. I do hope you'll give them an honest watch.

Art of Free Speech

@Raj Who cares what George Lucas pictured for the Force? I do... lots of us do. To go against the creation of the guy who imagined the whole thing goes against canon. To some of us, canon is important. It's obviously not to you, and that's fine, but it is to many of us. I would argue equally vehemently if it were Harry Potter (probably my favorite fandom) and they all of a sudden made Hermione stupid, or Harry a coward, or Luna a mainstream thinker. Changing what the force is changes everything and invalidates half the stuff we already know, or knew, rather, and not for the better. It doesn't clarify things, it muddies them. "He pictured midichlorians in the Prequels, which totally ruined the mystique of the Force" You mean it ruined it for you. For some of us, it was a little unexpected, but it didn't really change anything. I would totally respect your right to your opinion on that change. It's a shame you can't do the same. "So why do people object to Rey beating a seriously wounded Kylo" I've answered this already. 1. Rey was also injured--she was knocked out, FFS. 2. Kylo showed no ill effects from being wounded. If he'd moved like a wounded guy, fine. He didn't. 3. Even giving her the benefit of the doubt, Kylo then becomes EASILY the weakest Sith ever, not even worthy of screen time. Having a ridiculously weak Sith is just as bad. As far as Luke, we know he used to shoot things from his land speeder. In the books, they go into his flying experience and his relationship with Wedge. I would agree cutting it out of the movie was a bad thing, and yeah, when I first saw Star Wars (when that's all there was... ep. 4), I DID object to Luke getting in and even flying at all. It still bothers me to this day. As far as making the shot, he had Obi Wan's guidance, and I've heard it argued Obi Wan helped him use the force to make the shot. IOW, he didn't do it all by himself, and the movie let's us know that by having Obi Wan talk to him. And bigotry? Wow, dude... There's not an ounce of bigotry coming from me, but your need to call someone that simply for having a differing opinion kind of stinks of bigotry in itself.

Art of Free Speech

@Art -I'm assuming one of those replies was for me, so- "How does that make Rey less of a Mary Sue?"- because she isn't acting, she isn't in control. Think of it like being possessed. Regan in the Exorcist wasn't the one moving the bed, spinning her head around, etc., all that was Pazuzu. Same thing here, it wasn't Rey flying the Millennium Falcon through the Star Destroyer or beating Kylo or mind tricking the guard, it was the Force. Rey failed at all of them (though she was a good pilot, but not great). "how does that affect character development?"- it gives a starting point for her to control a wild, untamed force. Of course, Last Jedi screwed that up.

Mike Lemon

@Raj -Not liking a character isn't bigotry.

Mike Lemon

There are those who appreciate and understand the imperfect, yet different and extremely competent The Last Jedi. And those who don't. That's okay. I'm happy to be in the former camp.

So why do people object to Rey beating a seriously wounded Kylo, but totally buy the untrained Luke hopping into an X-Wing for the first time and making the perfect shot to destroy the Death Star? He was guided by The Force, presumably. So why can't Rey be guided by The Force? So much bigotry from the Fandom Menace.

Raj K. Dixit

I think TLJ is the best SW movie EVER. However, my favorite will always be A New Hope - or, as it was called when I saw it in 1977 as a wee 4 year old - Star Wars.

Raj K. Dixit

Who cares what George Lucas pictured for the Force? He pictured midichlorians in the Prequels, which totally ruined the mystique of the Force. Sequels are far better than anything Lucas could've come up with, in my opinion.

Raj K. Dixit

That's beautiful. I was only a year old when the first SW was released, but I have vivid memories of seeing EMPIRE STRIKES BACK in the theater multiple times with my dad. I also wept seeing FORCE AWAKENS opening night.

Stick Figure Studios

Same here. I think LAST JEDI is the best SW movie since EMPIRE.

Stick Figure Studios

This one was so epic!! You made me laugh and cry so many times❤️ Oh my Gosh, I love this

Wellu Niemi

@whitelies See, now that entire message from you comes off as dismissive. If you think we saw Rey have to fight and claw like we've seen countless characters fight and claw in the past, then you have just a monstrously different opinion of reality than I do. We're TOLD she's an orphan. We see no real effects from it. We hear she's a scavenger, but we never really see significant travails from it. Sure, she's stated to have come from hard times, but we don't see it affect her. Look, I LOVE me some Katniss Eberdeen, Ripley, Tris from Divergent, or the original Sarah Connor. They're all great characters, but all have obvious flaws, and all of them are strongly admired by men and women alike. There's a reason so many of us don't connect with Rey in the same way, even if we can't put our finger on it exactly. Frankly, I just didn't really like her. I didn't pull for her. I didn't identify with her at all (despite REALLY wanting to), and that's important to me--to be able to identify with someone in a movie. As I said in my original statement, I didn't hate Ep.7. I just found it immensely forgettable. After seeing Ep4,5,6,1,2,3, just once, I could tell you the basic plot, even 20 years later. I've seen Ep7 3 times, and watched reactions, and it's STILL not memorable. When it comes to Luke, I would AGREE he didn't have to fight for anything PRE-Obi Wan. It's AFTER he meets Obi-Wan that he has to fight, and we get to see it, and we see his flaws, and it makes us love him and cheer when he overcomes hardships. I just never saw enough of that from Rey... Again, she never had to go finish training. She never had to START training. She was good enough to beat Ren after being knocked out after being thrown 20 feet in the air against a tree. Even if you want to give Rey the benefit of the doubt, then you have to say that Kylo Ren was a seriously weak Sith, not worthy of the time he's given on film. And again, I'm FAR from the only person who sees all of this. None of us, not ONE SINGLE ONE OF US, is saying you shouldn't like the film. We're simply saying why WE didn't like it and why WE didn't find it memorable.

Art of Free Speech

Art of Free Speech: You are trying to factor in logic and some sort of realism into a moview franchise that was built with very little of either. Let's not act like Luke's training or experience was anything that would really bring him into remotely the same league with Vader who he fights multiple times. If were being "logical" he would've been beat so many times, but it's not about that, the story was never about that. That said, saying Rey didn't have to fight for anything is super weird and makes it seem like you weren't even following the movies. She was an orphan and scavenger, it's pretty obvious she had to fight to survive. You can do that exact same downplay with Luke if you want to - he was a naive farmer boy with a happy family, "it's not like he ever had to fight for anything", right?

whitelies

lol, parsecs,

Ken - Kendo161

Jason Mangen: really? "Mary Sue"? Are you a grown person or a little kid? You sound like the latter, and a bitter one at that.

whitelies

What a fantastic memory you have! It reminded me of when I went to see Rise of Skywalker in the theater. There was a guy probably in his 60's wearing a super faded SW cap sitting one seat from me. We both watched the movie in complete silence and at the end of the film, I turned to look and he had tears pouring down his face. I smiled and nodded at him, he said something like "both sad and happy tears" and laughed. I asked him what he thought about the movie and he said it was beautiful. We talked for a bit and he also mentioned seeing the first movie with his dad and he had been a fan since. Don't know if his dad was still around, we didn't talk for long but this just reminded me how much these movies touch people amid all the toxic banter. Long live Star Wars.

whitelies

I'm glad you watched and liked this movie, I think it's great! I hope you can ignore all the toxic noise. Since you seemed to enjoy this one, I think you are in for a great ride with the sequels.

whitelies

In other words, changing the Force from what it was to something completely different from what George Lucas had pictured? Yeah, that's not better. It's worse. And really, how does that affect character development? How does that make Rey less of a Mary Sue? She still doesn't have to fight for anything or learn anything, and frankly, I can't relate to that. I don't think it's a good message for women either... it's not "you can be strong and successful if you work hard." Instead, it's "you can be strong and successful if the universe grants you ridiculous power." It's insulting really. I'm far from the only one who thinks this. Just go to youtube and watch That Star Wars Girl talk about it, or there's a youtube channel called Baggage Claim that talks about it in one of their videos. I'm far, FAR from the only one mentioning this stuff.

Art of Free Speech

The...FORCE...Awakens, not Rey awakens. The Force is using Rey to act, Rey isn't using the Force. Rey was getting her ass kicked until she gave in and let the Force use her. Oh, just thought of a comparison. If you're old enough to remember Yu-Gi-Oh, it is basically the same thing that happens with Yugi Mutou and Pharaoh.

Mike Lemon

I thought Episode 7 was ok. I understand why they did what they did with it, why they basically remade Episode 4. After the all the hate the prequels got, they needed people to feel they were getting old school Star Wars. And it mostly works. But after seeing it i said that i hoped they would do something different with the next one. Boy, did i ever get my wish. Episode 8 instantly became my second favourite SW movie. And of course it became the most divisive SW movie of them all.

Opti_Frog

I think if they portrayed Kylo Ren as really hurt, and affected his movement, and made him seem so badly hurt as to be able to lose to a rank amateur, it might have been more believable, but, having just watched that scene again, he moves with no impediment. He moves like he's perfectly healthy, or at least able to put any pain out of his mind.

Art of Free Speech

And she had been thrown against a tree and knocked out... Even if you say LeBron James is hurt, you're not beating him the first time you step onto the court... you're certainly not going to "draw" with him. At the end of the fight, she effectually "wins" with the blow to his head/face. And none of that has anything to do with hate being a tool of the force, and here she is containing herself just fine where nobody else in the universe can do it... every other Jedi ever had to be trained from birth, or at least have to go through the prevails Luke did, but she's able to do it with no training whatsoever. I stand by what I said... no character development in Ep.7, and a completely unbelievable Rey that didn't make me care about her. I may have complained about Ep1-Ep3, but in the end, I did care about the characters (well, except JarJar...), and they did develop. Thanks for the definition of a Mary Sue. I suppose Rey does fit that category reasonably well.

Art of Free Speech

A Mary Sue is a one-dimensional character that is overpowered and not believable because they have no flaws and never lose and rarely if ever experience the sort of growth that comes from mistakes, often appearing in fan fiction and bearing similarities to the writer.

Colin Gutierrez

I mean, yeah but he had a gaping bowcaster wound and was using half his power keeping his guts from falling out, so she didn't really "defeat" him. He wasn't even close to his full strength at the time.

Colin Gutierrez

I've heard that expression before, but I've never seen a good definition... what exactly is a Mary Sue? And what's the derivation?

Art of Free Speech

Instead of finishing off the sequels with the original characters and ending on a high note and commencing with the new material in a new series of movies they just killed off everything that was loved and denigrated it. I’m stilling wondering who thought that this was the way to go?

Jason Mangen

They made her character a Mary Sue.

Jason Mangen

Okay, so, I was an immense Star Wars fan before I ever saw Ep.7, and though I didn't think Ep.7 was terrible, I didn't think it was great either. The biggest problem for me was the lack of character development for Rey. It's tantamount to, say, a basketball movie, and the hero steps on the court for the first time, and there's Lebron James... and the dude beats LeBron James... It's unbelievable. Luke had to train with Obi Wan on how to use a lightsaber and feel the force, and THEN had to go to Degobah and train with Yoda, and they STILL thought it was too early for him to fight Darth Vader. Rey, with zero light saber or force training defeats the man she saw kill Han Solo? Whatever happened to hate being a tool of the dark side? Luke had to fight like mad not to hate Darth Vader, but Rey is just a master at keeping her cool with no training against a Sith Lord? It's roll your eyes bad.

Art of Free Speech

At 53 years old, I saw the original Star Wars in the theaters with my Dad when I was 8 years old. I hated the prequels, and I was so excited when this came out. Most people didn't like this because of all the "fan service" and how it had the same type of story lines as the originals. I for one, DID NOT CARE. I saw this in a theater, opening night, surrounded by strangers, and it took my right back to when I was eight again. Although I had lost my dad, I could feel his presence all around me in that theater. When it was over, I just started crying and I couldn't stop. It was a culmination of my Dad, the impact that Stars Wars had on my life, and the joy of seeing all those late 70's and early 80s flicks with my Dad. I was one of four kids, but the movies was always me and my Dad's thing. As I was sitting there, blubbering, the lights came on. And in a true testament to all Star Wars fans, the guy next to me turned to me and said, "It'll be okay man." Now I'm crying as I write this, because, Cassie, I love your real reactions of a real NEW fan. Just like thinking of my Dad, you bring me back to those special times as well. Thanks for helping me think of my Dad again tonight. Happy and sad tears again. Like you, now I need a tissue.

Super Powered Design (Jim)

I just saw this pop up on youtube and the clip for your Instagram as usual had me smiling like an idiot. So congrats, you got the old school, stuck in his ways, no cell phone having guy to join instagram lol. A little mad at you actually I was trying to stay stuck in the past forever!! haha

Erik Daniel

I've been egging her on to watch Dark City. It should definitely be high on the list of sci-fi movies, in my opinion. I still think it's one of the best movies I've ever seen.

Sundiver

Oh hey, it's the priest from The Exorcist. She's getting there. LOL.

Miki Johnson