The Last of Us Season 1 Episode 9 REACTION
Added 2025-04-13 18:54:37 +0000 UTCWhat in all things non consensual healthcare is going on here...
Comments
I totally get that!
Lenny
2025-04-27 21:38:37 +0000 UTCMaybe it’s because I watched episode eight right before this one, but I have the creeps. Two very different men who wanted to keep Ellie to themselves or she’ll die. David wanted a pet and Joel wants a daughter. Both put their own needs and wants ahead of hers. All the time they were hiking, Joel was comparing Sarah and Ellie.
Kath
2025-04-27 21:37:42 +0000 UTCUnpopular opinion: The whole discussion about no one asking Ellie is missing the point, it's a huge distraction from the central conflict. It doesn't matter that Ellie would've agreed, it doesn't matter that the fireflies are objectivly doing the wrong thing by not getting her consent (the show is establishing over and over how people in this post apocalyptic world will find ways and reasons to justify immoral decisions)... What matters is that Joel KNOWS Ellie would want to see this through, no matter what. "It can't be for nothing." But he's not willing to lose her, even if it means disrespecting her greatest wish and denying humanity a shot at a cure. The story isn't about ethics in the medical world, it's about Joel and Ellie and their love and trauma.
Ericsson
2025-04-25 19:17:31 +0000 UTCA couple of thoughts: I believe the game's creator (and Executive Producer on show) has said that the assumption is the Dr could do what he said - although I don't see how that remotely would be possible - that Dr wasn't terribly old- he looked 40's to me, which means he was YOUNG when the world ended, like maybe a med student or a very young Dr - and I doubt he's gotten a lot more education post-apocalypse. And where are they going to produce a cure? Not like a thriving biochemical industry is up and running. It took a YEAR to develop the Covid-19 vaccine and that was for a coronavirus, something we are familiar with, and the entire world was pouring $ into development - not a novel treatment for a mutated fungal pandemic. Another thing is I don't trust Marlene - if they did develop a cure, I guarantee you fireflies would get it 1st, maybe then, after overthrowing FEDRA, the public, and would anyone in FEDRA survive let alone get the cure? Marlene is ruthless, she'd use a cure as a powerful tool in her revolution. Obviously not getting Ellie's concent is unethical- but also, who goes straight to killing Ellie immediately? A longer approach with tests along the way - could her blood serve? What about the fungus in her arm, why not start there? You don't kill the goose laying your golden (fungal) eggs as step 1! Oh, and it originally was the "Trolley Problem" not transplant - you can divert a trolley that is rolling to 5 people tied to the tracks or divert it to only kill 1 on another branched track - it's an illustration of Utilitarianism - doing actions that are for the greatest good, by causing the least suffering - but alter it to "you can keep the trolley from killing 5 by diverting it to kill one of your friends or a family member & it shows Joel's dilemma is more akin to that version- a limit to Utilitarianism as a philosophy as the "right" ethical decision disappears.
Michael M
2025-04-18 01:11:03 +0000 UTCYeah. Strangely enough I have a memory of saying that somewhere either in a video or to someone else. I can’t remember where exactly lol.
Lenny
2025-04-16 19:41:35 +0000 UTCI'd like to point out one thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet. The approach of the Fireflies, where they're not letting Ellie know what was actually going to happen in some sort of "we know this is for the greater good", is a parallel to the episode where FEDRA told the infected child they'll get him sorted.
donglordthe3rd
2025-04-16 18:31:40 +0000 UTCThere’s no proof he was a quack. All we know is what Marlene told Joel.
MJ Eid
2025-04-15 19:25:13 +0000 UTCI know that it's not meant to be viewed this way, but I've always had the opinion that an additional aspect that adds to the tragedy of the circumstances of Ellie's surgery is that if there were a doctor with more knowledge than the quack that is working for the Fireflies, the whole situation could have been avoided. Who would kill their only know subject on the whim that your hypothesis could work after running tests for less than a day? I know that there is more info about his research process in the game, but honestly that only highlights his incompetence and desperation. Seeing all the characters tormented by their choices, knowing that if they had more knowledge they wouldn't be in the current situation. (feel free to tell me that this take is bs, and I'm completely wrong about everything)
onemile
2025-04-15 16:58:37 +0000 UTCWe need a Moderator for these two comments. Make sure you dont read em stew. VVVVV
MJ Eid
2025-04-15 02:05:34 +0000 UTCI have to disagree with you. I understand what you mean about the culture war, Joel and the sequel - and how they may be related. I'm not going to elaborate because even if I did without factual spoilers, I'm setting up some way of thinking about things here and that's not fair to Stu or anyone else who hasn't played the second game. So I'm going to ignore this completely. But as far as factual information that comes up in the game about immunity, surgery, and what the Fireflies were doing about the vaccine before this point - none of that is as simple as you make it out to be. Yes, unlike the show, in the game we can find recordings of the surgeon (and Marlene) talking about it. But nowhere in them is there a single piece of factual information that confirms that there is anyone else who is immune. The surgeon talks about doing tests on infected subjects, which may indicate immune individuals, but in no way does this confirm their existence. On the contrary, he states quite clearly that "Ellie's infection is like nothing else he has seen before". She is definitely special. And don't get me wrong, I'm not denying that it's possible to interpret the recording as confirming that some other immune people exist - but it's by no means clearly stated. Same as the Fireflies not trying to save the patients - from what I recall, Marlene's recording says that there's simply no way to save the host, and she has to deal with the fact that for her it's not a host, but a kid she knows and has an emotional attachment to. Not being able to save someone is not the same as not trying at all. And I could go on and on like this, because virtually all the information we get in this regard is very vague - and can be interpreted in more than one way. But what ultimately remains (except for our interpretations) is that we know that Marlene believes it could work (and so does the surgeon in the game). And that's pretty much all we get in this adaptation as well. And we can argue about what chance of success it would have, if the Fireflies are even capable of it, if they might even be equipped to do something like this... but it's not like we have so much information that we can go beyond mere speculation. As for how the absence of this changes our perception of this particular final decision - yes, I agree that it does. But is it really "game changing"? Because Joel's decision wasn't driven by logic, or information, even in the game - it was always emotional (he only finds that information after he makes the decision, and only if we waste time picking things around). That said, it can only really change how we ourselves perceive what's going on. And for me personally - I don't think anyone is trying to portray the Fireflies as some sort of paragons (Marlene is a bit more humanized in the game than in the show, in my opinion), just like I can't look at Joel as an "ugly" character from my perspective. The show puts much more emphasis on Joel in general and on his own moral dilemmas - and leaves us to question or judge them if that's what we want. Does this make him "ugly," or just... human in a world where our own moral rules are obviously not quite valid anymore. I probably love him more here than I do in the game - and even there I never saw him as some poster hero. I don't want to contradict your interpretation (no, I see it as valid in many places - though I see the same thing differently myself) - but it's an interpretation, not really any "hard" facts.
Nathaniell717
2025-04-14 17:21:48 +0000 UTCI will politely point out this series was tainted by the cultural war, the choice in the original story was more easy, it is clearly stated that the operation is an uncertain gambit, because they have tried before and always failed (she is not unique in that sense), so there are no innocents in that hospital, they have sacrificed many people already; also they are not trying to save the patient, it is stated the operation is basically a vivisection "to understand", there is no clear cure in sight. Now about Joel, this TV version it is not him, they made him ugly in the ways that matter, his soul his character, in the original story he is a bona fide hero! this TV project was a way to retcon the horrendous sequel. All that I have said can be easily verified by watching the original story as a movie (there are let's play videos available in youtube of it including the hospital bit, and the aftermath/epilogue). Thank you for your awesome work, and good luck with your PhD! <3
Silvanorix
2025-04-14 12:17:31 +0000 UTCAyy another CR fan! I thought the same 🤭
JoJo
2025-04-14 11:47:04 +0000 UTCOne minor detail I love about this episode is when he enters the pediatric surgery wing and walks past the children's mural. The first thing that comes into view is a white elephant, a symbol for "a possession that its owner cannot dispose of without extreme difficulty, and whose cost, particularly that of maintenance, is out of proportion to its usefulness." It maps pretty well onto the way that Joel values the life of Ellie, over the life of humanity, essentially. Ellie is his white elephant.
Brandon Van Dzura
2025-04-14 05:54:44 +0000 UTCWild hearing someone recognize Ashley Johnson from Blindspot when that show to me has always been "the show Ashely is doing which is why she cant be on Critical Role".
Versek
2025-04-13 23:31:59 +0000 UTCI loved your reactions of the entire season. I can't wait to see season 2 and also your reactions on it. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I would find it so interesting if you happen to react also on the game and see how it compares. There's some good montage of it on Youtube that takes around 3-4 hours long. The acting and motion capture are so well done, it's like watching an anime. I'm sure you would find some things interesting to analysis and it also can be done in livestreams. It's just a suggestion, I don't know if it something you are interested in, but if not see you for season 2 anyway.
SirPanacheXVIII
2025-04-13 22:20:39 +0000 UTC
