Cookie Thief
Added 2025-03-16 17:22:54 +0000 UTCRaine getting her head stuck in a cookie jar, suggested by Pretorian! Two different times: as a puppy and adolescent.
Comments
You may try to add a friend on Discord. Username is drazgon Too much talk about DNA. I said inheriting transformation would be paramount not for having access to two forms but for offspring being viable. It would be long to argue why you state that Euchre had some wolf DNA in human form to pass to offspring, know the reasons why there can't be a viable hybrid offspring (without magic) and still say that Raine would just be human without transformation ability. 'Otherwise Raine would simply be a human'(c). We may speak further in discord about it if we want. And about Laura dying from... larynx damage... from choking... On the main topic by the way I found one more argument. P.996. Raine: "I am **not** a wolf! ... I… am **human**! I think you may safely assume that was Tom talking through his character.
Drazgon
2025-03-20 08:08:46 +0000 UTCSorry, when I said 'pm' Iwas thinking of a different platform. But the statement still stands if we can find a way to exchange info. As for the similarities and differences in DNA, I certainly wouldn't compare it to the 'headers' found in programing (or more likely digital communications), rather the differences lie in the actual organization and layout of the gene pairs or chromosomes. This can be seen by comparing the karyotype images of different species. One simple (too superficial imho) example is at: http://www.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/articles/2012/dog-vs-human-dna/ the explanation is simplistic, but the image comparing the human 23 and the canine 39 is my point. The few species that can hybridize usually are sterile (i.e. a mule from a horse and donkey). This is most probably because the location of the gene pairs in that portion of the string don't match and therefore can't complete the necessary sequence. In fact, the Reeves Muntjac (a small deer) has the same number of chromosomes as humans, but when you look at the karyotype images of each side by side, you can see why they can't interbreed. Similarly, red foxes, spider monkeys, and porcupines all have the same count yet can't interbreed (of course in the case of the porcupine... well, never mind). This has alot to do with where each piece information is stored, not just what it is encoded. The truth is that DNA can, in fact, encodes a great deal of information like a program. Whether it is what we consider a 'header' like in the digital world, or it is an id bit hidden somewhere in the sequencing, I'd be willing to bet there is something in each of us that keeps a record of our lineage; as we're starting to see in the case of ancestry.com and 23 and me giving breakdowns of our regional DNA family histories. How cool would it be if, like Euchre, we could rearrange our sequence to an alternate form without any real knowledge of how we did it? Kinda like breathing; we do it from birth without understanding it until much later in our lives. And like breathing, all mammals share the building blocks. And yes, in Raine's case (like in the case of dragons in this fiction) you're correct. The inheritance of the magic transformation ability would be paramount for the two (or more) forms to be accessible. Otherwise Raine would simply be a human that couldn't transform with out Trace's (or maybe Nora's) help. Maybe Euchre *is* what gave the mask the idea to unlock the interbreeding. Either way, I find the whole subject fascinating! By the way, in the picture where Trace protected Laura, I was under the impression she died from damage to her larynx from the choking... as a medic I've actually encountered that IRL. Also, did Tom say anywhere that Mary could use magic without the aid of crystals? I had assumed that she was limited to crystal use (like all keidren wolves that use magic) maybe I'm mistaken about that.
wjd1206
2025-03-19 22:40:51 +0000 UTCThough it's almost entirely unrelated, I'm kinda wanna reply. "It doesn't seem a terrible stretch to think that a non-cosmetic gene pair could be responsible for identification of birth species." There are not some 'headers' in DNA like there are in programming, there is no a small sequence defining the species. The species is the sum of its genes. "If the transformation ability had not been active in Raine, she would most likely have active gene pairs for one or the other species, with the remaining gene pairs becoming inactive (or latent/or dormant)" (c) And even when 80+% of genes are the same in mammals, the small differences make impossible to make a viable offspring. (Though rarely it's possible, but offspring is infertile like Kat, so evolutionary non-viable). Because id doesn't work the way you described, like one inherits genes from both sides, but in each gene the right one is active and other is dormant, resulting in phenotypically species of one of the parents. No, it's a mess, non-viable. (There is a good pop-science video about why hybrids are sterile. A little different topic, but maybe it can help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hfelo_qAw0) That's why if I would want to justify hybrid Raine I must deduce that inheriting magic transformation ability is paramount for viable hybrid offspring. And what Neutral did is she changed biology to make human and keidran compatible even without magic.
Drazgon
2025-03-19 09:47:41 +0000 UTCPlease teach me how to pm on patreon! "As for the 'device', a keidren slave collar would prevent Mary from using her magic, even with crystals, if so applied. In the image I linked after my earlier comment, it shows both Mary (wolf form) *and* Raine (human form) wearing them."(c) Tom may put wrong details on his sketches even when they picture events from the comic. For example, there was a sketch, picturing how Trace protected Laura from the blast (a circle of not-damaged area around them. As if Trace rushed to her choking the general when Natani was firing to explode the tower and protect Laura and himself with some shield, but she still died. Good for you that you can recognize a slave collar and sure that it was not... maybe a magic suppressor or something else different or combined. When those devices are so different in forms (p.1150, p.651, p.1067...). Even if they were slave collars on Raine and Mary (I believe that), it was surely just a standard procedure of transporting keidran prisoners. It was definitely not the thing that prevents Mary from changing into human as you imply. 'Mary was subjected to a similar device, holding her in keidren form when she was transformed by Trace.'(c) I repeat, p.729 says that after Euchre saved them (removing those collars, obviously), Mary can use magic (she created a magic blocker for Raine), but she's unable to return to human form. Because transformation is such a complex spell, only Trace mastered its imperfect form. "We have no way to know if it would work on full human form Raine, but if so, it would have to be due to her parentage, don't you think?"(c) Yes, if we saw slave collar controlling human-form Raine it would be a concrete argument for you. Collar indeed only controls keidren - there is something keidran in her even in human form, she is a hybrid. Even we don't see how human-form Raine is free of collar influence, it is implied by design of Rose's exercise. I think you misunderstood whole scene with Rose, a collar and Raine. " half transformed Raine overpowered a collar"(c). The Rose's whole idea of the exercise was that Raine can escape from control by turning into human (p. 1067 and others near). The 'overpowering' was never an option by design of the experiment (p.1080). And she did it by sheer brute force, not because of she was in human or keidran form, or between. The fact that she broke the collar tells nothing. The experiment tells us that Rose expected the collar to not work on human-Raine, and that it works on between form - there is 'enough' keidran to control. Unfortunately even if we saw slave collar not being able to control human-form Raine, it would be only a inferential, circumstantial argument for me. It may be countered with that one keidran trait collar uses to control is absent, but hybrid Raine may still have some hidden keirdan traits even in full-human form. Just commenting/correcting some of your thoughts. I see we've already both agreed that both of our view points are consistent and coherent, and we lack of argument to prove one of them wrong.
Drazgon
2025-03-19 08:15:28 +0000 UTCI think I see where we're looking at things differently (at least in one aspect). Mary's transformation was 'imperfect' because it was forced and painful. Euchre's transformations are casual and painless. I don't recall if Euchre needed any mana crystals for it, if not, then it would truly be an innate capability. I do know that Euchre's use of more common magic requires crystals. "The smallest detail" is somewhat misleading. For you and I, we begin discussing DNA due to our awareness of it. The visual transformation would probably necessitate at least some DNA manipulation, but based on my medical knowledge (limited compared to a genetic specialist MD, of course. I was a professional ParamedicLieutenant for a municipal fire department). I was also involved in a project with an enormous amount of research. I was privy to this during the writing of a science fiction/fantasy novel. I can say that the differences between individuals of the same species amounts to less than 1% of total genetic material. Moreover, almost all mammals share somewhere between 80 and 86% of their genetic material. Makes me wonder which (probably) shared gene pair (or pairs) would need to be active for magic use to be possible with or without crystals. It doesn't seem a terrible stretch to think that a non-cosmetic gene pair could be responsible for identification of birth species. If the transformation ability had not been active in Raine, she would most likely have active gene pairs for one or the other species, with the remaining gene pairs becoming inactive (or latent/or dormant). As for the 'device', a keidren slave collar would prevent Mary from using her magic, even with crystals, if so applied. In the image I linked after my earlier comment, it shows both Mary (wolf form) *and* Raine (human form) wearing them. Strange, they are only supposed to work on keidren. Also, later in the canon story, half transformed Raine overpowered a collar. We have no way to know if it would work on full human form Raine, but if so, it would have to be due to her parentage, don't you think? And you may be correct saying that it was Neutral who finally unlocked non transformational magic hybrids (Trace and Flora). Once again, I concede that you may well be correct, but I still think there's more hidden in our DNA (and therefore the characters) than we realize. If so, I propose my theory may also be correct. I've thoroughly enjoyed this! I hate when people lock into something, then take it as a personal assault when others don't agree. I've always felt that I can respect a point of view that I don't agree with as long as I percieve a thoughtful consideration behind that point of view. I certainly think you follow logical thought, and I respect that! I truly look forward to future discussions, you can also pm me anytime to continue (I just don't want to burn us or others out dragging this out too far). Thank you for a fantastic discussion!
wjd1206
2025-03-19 01:07:00 +0000 UTC" I'd like to say how enjoyable it is to have discussions like this without anger or venomous partisanship."(c) Yeah, surprisingly humans appear to be able to apply logic and reason when the discussion does not threaten to destroy the pillar that they were stupid enough to make into a cornerstone of the whole identity. Like religion, political stance, or even such absurd things as their taste for food (vegans) or for people to fuck ('sexual orientation'). Instead of making into cornerstone one's traits, good or 'bad', such as kindness, persistence, open-mindedness, rationality, empathy, Integrity, curiosity, humility, creativity, patience, courage, discipline... and your achievements.
Drazgon
2025-03-18 21:36:18 +0000 UTC" If you remember, Mary was subjected to a similar device, holding her in keidren form when she was transformed by Trace. "(c) I... don't remember that. That Mary's magic was blocked by some device. I remember that she even created Raine's magic blocker while being a wolf. (p. 729). Mary couldn't change her back because of her lack of skill, not because of some device. Only Trace was able to learn some imperfect variation of that skill. "An ability that most mages could never hope to learn, let alone master..."(c) I asked "why Chaos", because I think it's Neutral's action to allow hybrids. I find it strange how you insist that Euchre's flawless transformation is the same as shapeshifting of dragons, and it goes all the way to changing the very DNA... And at the same time you insist that transformation doesn't change what your offspring is. Despite it's literally coded in DNA. And calling Raine a hybrid because by some 'definition' it's an offspring of a human and a 'wolf by *birth*'. As if implying that transformation is not that absolute and some 'wolfness' is preserved and moreover is passed to offspring (but not as DNA, something spiritual?). Which contradicts your thesis about flawlessness of transformation. How would wolf and human traits coexist in Raine if she happened to NOT inherit transformation ability? I think my picture of the world is more plausible. That Euchre's transformation is flawless ("ability allowed him to physically **become** human, down to the smallest detail." p.722), flawless down to DNA and what his offspring is. And dragons' shapeshifting is just rebuilding some parts of their body for their liking, for example, to look like a human (not an illusion, rebuilding). But dragon is still a dragon (on DNA lvl or smth) and produce hybrids. But, well... If one supposes that Euchre's flawless transformation is the same as shapeshifting of dragons (where something in DNA doesn't change and reflects the species of birth and passes it to offspring, that contradict the word 'flawless' and 'become human down to the smallest detail')... including the fact that offspring must inherit the transformation ability for different traits to coexist... and including that shapeshifting is the very thing that allows bypassing the Masks' law (by dragons and Euchre)... then I haven't find an argument to prove this picture wrong. I even now think that Raine's human form in magic suppressor as my argument for she's a human was totally wrong. A suppressor prevents using magic, not nullifies consequences of using magic. So yeah, it would lock Raine in her wolf form as well as in her human form. If this was not true, Mary could return her human form just by wearing one of those.
Drazgon
2025-03-18 21:23:33 +0000 UTCOh WOW! That was a while back! 🫨🫨
wjd1206
2025-03-18 20:29:47 +0000 UTCBTW, check out this one: https://www.patreon.com/posts/19129243?utm_campaign=postshare_fan&utm_content=android_share
wjd1206
2025-03-18 17:54:41 +0000 UTCFirst of all, I'd like to say how enjoyable it is to have discussions like this without anger or venomous partisanship. Thank you again, Drazgon and you too, Netari! Drazgon, I understand what you are saying about the dragons conceiving children with humans in human form. But again, their form change is innate magic, and on par with "perfect transformation" that Euchre possesses. I tend to think that a magic transformation of that type (as opposed to an illusion spell like the one Natani used to hide his feminine attributes) would likely go all the way to changing the very DNA. But, as with the dragons, it doesn't change who the person was at birth. The dragons can transform this way to an unlimited number of forms; Euchre can only manage one form, the magic however, is the same kind. Hence the dragon hybrids inherit many (if not all) of their parent's abilities. In Raine's case, she inherited Euchre's 'perfect transformation'. Regardless, children are (by strict definition) hybrids of both parents. Euchre was born a wolf keidren, albeit with an unusual magical ability. As for the covering up of Raine's ability, You're right. She was in human form when her mother applied the magic inhibitor, therefore she stayed in that form. If you remember, Mary was subjected to a similar device, holding her in keidren form when she was transformed by Trace. I suggest that had Raine been in keidren form when her inhibitor had been applied, she would have remained keidren. The point isn't her form, rather the ability inherited from her father. Euchre was born a wolf Keidren. He passed that on to Raine, or she couldn't have inherited his abilty to transform. So, the term hybrid is still applicable, if not in the same way as the Legacy child. Also, to answer your question, "Chaos" was an early name for Mercurial, if I remember correctly. So, yes, Raine is a 'hybrid' and definately not the same as the Legacy child. As Netari pointed out, This is all our conjecture (either way) unless Tom feels it necessary to the story to reveal all of these questions in the course of the story. While I differ from your opinion, I can respect it and the thoughtful application of logic! Thank you!
wjd1206
2025-03-18 17:03:32 +0000 UTCTrue, thouh that's not all Tom needs to finalize.
Netari Icefyng
2025-03-18 15:09:51 +0000 UTCWell... Raine could have changed forms uncontrollably even in a womb. Not an argument. 'non-canon' - I cited p.722. And those theses that dragons copulate with humans (not in dragon form obviously) and produce dragon hybrids and that Euchre never take another form but the one we saw - are solid, by the comic. If you insist calling Raine a hybrid (by Mask's design or not (btw why Chaos?)), then at least agree that she's not the same as the hybrid, child of Flora. Just same word, but different nature. And one more argument - Mary covered up (not child's 'nature', but her ability) by just making her wear just a simple magic-blocking device. Which prevents uncontrollable triggering of the transformation (as well as blocks any other form of magic, like the Zen's link). And while wearing this device Raine has a form of... a human. Netari: I got an impression that when the Mask says 'before' in such context that means 'centuries ago, before We prohibited that.'
Drazgon
2025-03-18 14:58:54 +0000 UTCare you certain the mask forbad it at that time because Neutral when they got back mentions that it was possible before...
Netari Icefyng
2025-03-18 14:43:53 +0000 UTCI can see where you are coming from. You may be correct as well. All of this is 'non-canon' and outside the actual story. But if Raine was born in keidren form from a human mother, wouldn't that be a hybrid by definition? Especially since her father was born keidren? Take a look at this: https://www.patreon.com/posts/21336847?utm_campaign=postshare_fan&utm_content=android_share My opinion is that the magic allowed the hybridization, the masks hadn't anticipated that, and it may have actually given Chaos the idea. Alternatively, maybe it was a previous attempt by Chaos that failed because of Mary Silverlock's thorough cover up of her child's nature with the early magic inhibitor holding her human form and her isolation (as per canon storyline).
wjd1206
2025-03-18 13:52:55 +0000 UTCI believe Euchre's flawless transformation and dragons' shapeshifting to be different things. The difference to be, well, exactly what you think I mean. "The ability allowed him to physically *become* human, down to the smallest detail."(c) Including what his offspring is, what is not the case for dragons. The other difference may be that Euchre can't choose his form, while dragons can make different appearances and not even only human. Human-keidran hybrids were not possible when Raine was born, Masks prohibited that. You may of course say, that Euchre's case is special and bypasses Masks' laws, but... I find it to be unlikely.
Drazgon
2025-03-18 07:50:21 +0000 UTCShe's listed as human, and was conceived while her father was in human form, but Euchre was born wolf keidren. That leaves at least a question, if not a direct conclusion that Raine is a hybrid. Using magic even innate, uncontrolled magic to change form, is still a *magical* form change. If a dragon remains in human form, they're still a dragon. All in all, this is all hypothetical, it would need Tom's final word on how he would want his story to explain this. By the way, I do enjoy the exchange of ideas and views... Thank you Drazgon!
wjd1206
2025-03-18 03:36:49 +0000 UTCI remember that line from an old newspaper comic called "For Better Or Worse".
KaiserDunk
2025-03-18 03:05:01 +0000 UTCI don't think so. That's why I even speak up to correct, that she isn't a hybrid like Flora's child. Raine is a 100% human.
Drazgon
2025-03-17 18:26:54 +0000 UTCYes! That's why Netari referred to her as a hybrid. An apt description, I think.
wjd1206
2025-03-17 14:34:48 +0000 UTCThis brings up one question though how does baby raine look in human form vs keidran form?
Netari Icefyng
2025-03-17 14:18:22 +0000 UTCYep. "I-Dunno" and "Not-Me" were 2 regular visitors at our house when the kids were little.
feralcat52
2025-03-17 13:35:55 +0000 UTCfyi, Raine is a human with uncontrolled transformation ability.
Drazgon
2025-03-17 06:40:53 +0000 UTCThat sounds like something that I would have done as a child.
ijuinkun
2025-03-17 06:11:26 +0000 UTCYes, force her to make replacements for the missing cookies!
ijuinkun
2025-03-17 06:07:02 +0000 UTCHere is an example of keidren age progression. They start as quadrupeds as babies and toddlers. https://www.patreon.com/posts/73664842?utm_campaign=postshare_fan&utm_content=android_share Presumably, Raine would have been born in or changed to keidren form shortly after birth. Hence the quadrupedal locomotion as a child in other posts such as slipper thief. https://www.patreon.com/posts/50293632?utm_campaign=postshare_fan&utm_content=android_share
wjd1206
2025-03-17 05:02:14 +0000 UTCThe return of "Idunno".
KaiserDunk
2025-03-17 04:44:52 +0000 UTCRaine is human. https://www.patreon.com/posts/raine-reference-25826733
Pretorian
2025-03-17 03:08:27 +0000 UTCSo adorable 😍😍😍
Mr great ape
2025-03-17 02:09:27 +0000 UTCOh my god, that is so adorable.
MR, ABYSS
2025-03-17 01:47:28 +0000 UTCCute and funny 😁😊 Here's hoping she can get that off 😅
Jesseker06
2025-03-17 00:55:42 +0000 UTCI wonder how she got her head out of the jar?
tickets please
2025-03-17 00:13:42 +0000 UTCOnce a smol thief, always an adorable little liar ~
Daemon Blitzkrieg
2025-03-16 21:57:24 +0000 UTCDescription says time skip. 🤔
Daemon Blitzkrieg
2025-03-16 21:54:35 +0000 UTC1 hour later: TRace: But i wanted those cookies :'(
Netari Icefyng
2025-03-16 21:53:05 +0000 UTCWell it's a good thing chocolate isn't posionous to Keidran..
Netari Icefyng
2025-03-16 21:51:03 +0000 UTCWell Also keidran aren't exactly the same species as our animals either so.
Netari Icefyng
2025-03-16 21:48:05 +0000 UTCQuestion: how did we go from Doggie Raine to Keidran Raine in one sketch??? Does Raine have full control of her transformation powers in this sketch?
Netari Icefyng
2025-03-16 21:46:32 +0000 UTCRaine: ...Ghost. Laura: Liar!
ArtAnimationFan
2025-03-16 21:21:38 +0000 UTCSomehow I feel this should be Pet Daughter (Colleen) and not Raine...
SophieTRat-Skunk
2025-03-16 21:16:55 +0000 UTCYes, but not too much...
SophieTRat-Skunk
2025-03-16 21:15:59 +0000 UTCSo human size animal = not so bad for them
Ellwinde Kindle
2025-03-16 21:09:19 +0000 UTCThe only reason chocolate is poisonous to cats and dogs is because of their size. The smaller the animal, the more poisonous it is. It has a compound in it that is similar to caffeine that really likes to fuck with their hearts
Ellwinde Kindle
2025-03-16 21:08:49 +0000 UTCBetter hide your beloveds.
Jonathan
2025-03-16 20:58:30 +0000 UTCRose: where the cookies.🤨 raIne: ghost 😙. Ghost: 🗿
Danzord Zord
2025-03-16 20:40:39 +0000 UTCRose: Soon you're gonna be one! Raine: (gulp)
SCD
2025-03-16 20:38:21 +0000 UTCWith evidence all over your face Yes very convincible
Snatcher
2025-03-16 20:37:49 +0000 UTCNot according to Word of Tom.
Kurtis Ryan
2025-03-16 20:03:53 +0000 UTCis chocolate poison to Keidran?
Netari Icefyng
2025-03-16 19:54:07 +0000 UTCIt was a good thing she was caught by Roselyn and not Amelia. The punishment (?) Helping Rose bake more cookies.
InTheLionsDen
2025-03-16 19:51:52 +0000 UTCGhophtphh
Kai Sörensen
2025-03-16 19:05:55 +0000 UTCand also since they have a modern kitchen with a refrigerator
Idran
2025-03-16 18:56:09 +0000 UTCIt wasn't me! It was a spooky ghost! Didn't you see the ghost?
Mr. Stargate
2025-03-16 18:41:57 +0000 UTCThem pesky cookie ghosts be like that sometimes 😂
Saberbeam
2025-03-16 18:11:09 +0000 UTCIt's a wonder Rose's hair doesn't match her fur in the second one. XD
Vicroc4
2025-03-16 18:02:36 +0000 UTCMakes you wonder if doggie cookies would also be good, though, I can see Raine growling and barking at an actual dog over a box of dog/human cookies. XD
Grip
2025-03-16 17:48:28 +0000 UTCAnd that's how Raine became a Youtube sensation.
Anonymous1988
2025-03-16 17:40:51 +0000 UTCPoor raine, the ghost didn't even share 😡, XD
bowman502
2025-03-16 17:38:10 +0000 UTCI guess some things cross species lines! Kids will be kids no matter what! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
wjd1206
2025-03-16 17:31:58 +0000 UTCOkay, I'm guessing this is an alternate timeline or something, since according to the main story, Raine was raised as a human and didn't even know she was a transformed Keidran.
Brian McCloud
2025-03-16 17:29:15 +0000 UTCIf the cookies are chocolate does that mean keidrans can eat chocolate?
Rainbow Sheep
2025-03-16 17:28:57 +0000 UTCOld habits and what have you :3
REDemon14
2025-03-16 17:28:43 +0000 UTClil' space explorer
Terra The Wizard
2025-03-16 17:28:37 +0000 UTCSecond time, "I am an astronaut", and the cookies was in the way, so I ate them.
J. Martin Laursen
2025-03-16 17:28:16 +0000 UTCWell I guess this is an official Tom lore confirmation that Keidran can eat chocolate.
Alex Shrub
2025-03-16 17:27:45 +0000 UTCAww, Raine is so adorable! :)
RemyHindle
2025-03-16 17:27:00 +0000 UTCI have no idea where it went. 乁| ･ 〰 ･ |ㄏ
Golden_Pawz
2025-03-16 17:26:37 +0000 UTCMy parents choosed a smaller glas, so I was save … And the second one: cookies? What cookies? I‘m an Astronaut … peep, peep
Joshu Kel'Machan
2025-03-16 17:26:36 +0000 UTCThis looks great, Tom. Nice job. 👍
Colin Algire
2025-03-16 17:25:23 +0000 UTCTHEY ARE D:<
Thomas Fischbach
2025-03-16 17:25:20 +0000 UTCCute little theif
Wyatt lute
2025-03-16 17:24:57 +0000 UTCI hope those aren't chocolate chip
Alex Shrub
2025-03-16 17:24:41 +0000 UTClol I’m eating cookie cake as this was posted
Seasonedplayer
2025-03-16 17:24:15 +0000 UTC
