EARLY ACCESS RELEASE - v0.18.6a!

Does no one read their skills? Go check out what the shatter skill does....

Cturtle

Uh, do you mean 'Shatter'? Because a regular Seduction win just sets you two notches early on the domination track - at least when I did it for the first two district bosses

Luccassor

if you go the seduction combat route by the time you take over the area the area boss is willing to join you

Kots

So, *ahem*, based on the cluster**** that the earlier discussion turned into - I think that rather than focus on creating content for new districts, it's probably worth rewriting the existing dialogue so that it's *completely and unarguably* clear that, to become the district bosses, the females in question have made an active decision to not merely keep their heads down or simply protect their district from *anyone* who might pose a threat to its people, whether real or imagined, but to actively cooperate with and support the Organization, leaving the Organization in de-facto control of the district, and that the MC is only fighting the district bosses because they won't abandon the Organization/stop cooperating with them and/or refuse to negotiate with the MC to allow them safe passage to take the fight to the Organization (or whatever reason why even a 'kind' MC really *must* fight them), because at present, it really does look like the MC is being a bit of a bully and conquering every part of the city just because he can, rather than because he must - which naturally also makes his behavior in the dungeon come off a bit more cruel than necessary to the district bosses who weren't quite as forceful in picking a fight with the MC as the initial bosses were OR create some kind of diplomacy system that would allow the MC to take over the districts without fighting the district bosses, which makes him look just as bad as the factions are - where that diplomacy system could even include ways of recruiting the district bosses if they haven't been provoked Just include some way to enable the MC to remain on the 'kind' path, so that even if 'kind' MC is still somewhat selfish and has ulterior motives for taking over the districts of the district bosses 'who just want to be left alone', he avoids coming across as a blatantly aggressive conqueror going out of his way to bring war to people who would *rationally* just not want to get involved in the mess overtaking the city; it's one thing for the 'kind' MC to mind-break a haughty opponent who actively chose to cause him trouble and stand in his way, even though his cause is to bring real peace back to the city - it's another when the 'kind' MC looks like they're enjoying being the 'bad guy' to anyone who stood in their way as much as the 'cruel' MC would

Luccassor

Yes, congratulations on thinking that there's any moral way to go about killing masses of people in an organized manner and that someone who's already killed out of anything other than self-defense has any right to expect fair treatment - or that I lack creativity when I'm simply explaining that under the current paradigm of the game it makes no sense for the bosses to be recruitable *after* being beaten in a fight that they always start At this point, I also have to agree with Redpyramid with you aren't interested in suggesting ways of making diplomacy make sense within the game, so much as to whine at anyone who doesn't hate coercive sex so much that they find the game ruined now - or who doesn't hate the fact that there are district bosses who'd simply rather the MC just go away and that they must be die-hard Organization supporters for the fact that they tried to *kill* the MC to warrant the MC acting much harsher than would be anywhere remotely fair otherwise As I said earlier, Arc seems to have his direction that he wants the game to move in now; you can argue that currently, the MC can only act like a dick to people who may not *entirely* deserve it because he only seems to have one method of making progress and that seems incongruous with an MC who had 'kind' options previously - and it's fair to ask that Arc consider ways that a 'kind' MC might do so before getting into a fight with people who *say* they don't want one, before they immediately start one; you can argue that the district bosses should be entirely rewritten so that they're more clearly eager for a fight and that makes clear that the only way the MC can realistically 'recruit' them is to mind-break them But it still makes no sense for opponents who hate the MC *even more* after being beaten by him to be more open to switching sides instead of either being more willing to fight him again or at least want to *actually* keep their heads down If all you've got to say in response is more insults because I don't share your same views on warfare and what rights someone who's already killed should have to expect from other killers, as opposed to actually engaging with what I said about what makes sense and what Arc wants to do, you can go take them elsewhere

Luccassor

There are options to just let the bosses go after defeating them the MC doesn’t have to have sex with them it’s just cause how the battle system works you need their help to win future fights unless you just want to grind lvls to get enough HP and WP to win which would be boring and like I said ARC is still working on the game he could add stuff in the future

Redpyramid

I'm not sure that Jessica is especially a known quantity to the district bosses anymore than the MC would be - all that they would probably know at that point is the 'faction that the paramilitary terrorist group has been trying to wipe out and has been holding up in the manor since they first arrived' The point is that, under the current implementation, there just simply is no option for diplomacy, no avoiding how quick the district bosses are to start fighting you once you turn up for the first time and no explanation for why a 'kind' version of the MC doesn't attempt to prevent the fight and pursue some form of alternative to outright conquering the city, such as brokering deals or trying to manipulate the district bosses into working for his faction instead To which, all that can be said is that Arc wants his war arc; dominating the district bosses' wills through dominating sex remains perfectly in character for less scrupulous versions of the 'MC'; the only hiccup is how to reconcile that with a 'kind' MC, who I imagine wouldn't be opposed to breaking the wills of stubborn opponents via mind-break sex either - provided that he has good reason to hate those opponents enough to temporarily be that callous to them, and the current dialogue doesn't provide that level of extreme motivations for the district bosses while also making the MC come off as a bit of a dick just for expanding his area of influence - which aren't issues for 'cruel' MC but are for 'kind' MC

Luccassor

You had nothing to do with that all you have done is yell, whine and cry like a child when people don’t agree with your opinion and need i remind you that this is a porn game a porn game with in my opinion a good plot but still a porn game made one guy that updates weekly not everything has been implemented yet so your constant whine does nothing but waste people’s time and bring a toxic atmosphere to discussions

Redpyramid

Oh wow, you're a genius. It only took me saying so several times before you realised that the problem is that the only way to recruit the district bosses is raping them. Your lack of imagination and frankly utterly ridiculous views on warfare are irrelevant, when people are clearly not happy with being ruled by the Org anyway, then convincing them to join us against them is obviously not impossible whether you see this or not.

Wild Bill

I agree it could be written or explained better, also it would probably help if we had more backstory for the bosses

Redpyramid

*Sigh*, yes, those bosses' dialogue probably should be rewritten so that the MC doesn't come off as quite as much as an unwarranted aggressor, but that's not the same as saying that they ought to necessarily be *recruitable* through diplomatic means *after* the MC has just finished pounding them into dirt I should also point out that there's a big difference between keeping your head down and not actively fighting the paramilitary terrorist group - and choosing to cooperate with them instead; all the bosses are very clearly in control of their districts and not being actively threatened by the Organization with some form of imminent destruction if they don't fight the MC; even the bosses who 'just want to be left alone' are quick to start fighting the MC under the current scheme of things; none of this gives any reason why the district bosses would switch sides to join the MC's faction, instead of, at most, agreeing not to fight him if he doesn't fight them Keep in mind that the MC, even on the 'kind' path, has not only actively decided to take the war to the 3 factions and probably isn't in the mood to be terribly reconciliatory, but his eldritch corruption is also probably pushing him towards more dominating tactics as his way of thinking becomes more like the Beast's the more corrupted he gets If your point is that there *should* be a system for trying to engage in diplomacy when reaching a new district instead of automatically getting into a fight, then that would be a different matter for a number of reasons, namely that the MC's faction clearly exists at that point and there haven't been any acts of aggression committed by either side yet - but given the circumstance where the MC has captured them after already fighting them into submission, I seriously doubt that they would be in the mood to pursue diplomacy after that point At this point, it's pretty clear that your objection isn't about whether it makes sense to have more diplomatic options and when, but is to the fact that you don't like that the only way to *recruit* the bosses is to rape them into submission, which *in itself* is a fair point, but don't pretend that their opposition to the MC is in any way necessary - or even justified - if he doesn't present a direct threat to them; I'll accept that the dialogue could be better presented so that it's clear that the MC *really* has no choice but to fight, if even 'kind' MC really can't avoid the fight, but if the fight has occurred already, I can't see any reason why the district bosses would willingly switch sides or stay out of the fight if just released without being exiled With all that said, if you really don't like the direction that the game is taking, you really should stop playing it - you can stop supporting Arc if you don't like what he's doing with the game at the moment; there are plenty of other porn games to play if the idea of coercive, dominating/humiliating sex done by the MC turns you off

Luccassor

You realize awakening almost always in the sex anyway and it a form of mind control which can be seen as just as bad also the MC side did not exist to them until we showed up out of the blue there is no evidence that they knew of use so why would they just join a complete unknown faction and no I don’t hold it against them it is just your argument hold no weight they don’t know who we are or how strong we are. If it Jessica doing the talking then maybe as she is an know entity to the city and the MC just arrived at the city few months ago and was asleep for most of that. we never interacted with these people before and if they did hear about us it would be at the college when the MC took over and that was though the use of powers. The MC has mostly been operating in the background so he does have the reputation for negotiations maybe since he has now shown the strength of his faction people would be more willing to talk

Redpyramid

Did you even bother to read their dialogue? Several of them now *have* said that they were coerced into "allying" with the organisation and just want to be left alone. These ones especially should be able to be recruited through diplomacy without even needing to use Awaken, and NONE of the ones we have met so far are hardcore Org supporters, so even the mobster types should be able to be convinced to join the winning side, i.e. us. Them "choosing to join the Org rather than our faction" is an idiotic point when our faction didn't even *exist* until after we woke up. Even using Awaken on them to speed things up would still be far better than raping them. Seriously, this paramilitary terrorist group takes over the city, and people choose to submit to them and go along with their rule rather than fight against them and be killed, and you are going to hold that against them?

Wild Bill

I understand your point but also ARC is still adding to the game it could be added later like he did with the dolls dialogue he is just one man and coding is hard if one thing out of place screws everything up we just have to see how it turns out plus with the city destroyed people are probably scared and going along with the organization also they don’t know the MC negotiations only really work if both side are know the people have no idea if the MC is a good guy or just as bad as the organization

Redpyramid

That's probably true about the propaganda, but given that they've destroyed most of the city, have taken over its legitimate government and is putting mob bosses up as district managers, the propaganda should probably ring hollow to most rational people; FWIW, it should also be pointed out that even 'kind' MC knows that using these specific powers isn't exactly particularly moral, and even somewhat selfish if used to satisfy his sexual desires, but he has no choice but to use them to find out what happened to his mother, then disrupt the Organization, the Fey and the Eldritch so that they can't ever be a threat to him or anyone he cares about ever again That said, yeah, more detailed dialogue could have been used to better illustrate that diplomatic alternatives really weren't available and that the MC has no choice but to forcefully take over the districts allied with the three other factions - or that even the 'kind' version of the MC can only (or is only willing to) show kindness to those who aren't actively standing in the way of him and the factions that have taken control of the city; otherwise, it does come off as incongruous as to why the 'kind' version of the MC is fighting anyone not actively aligned with his enemies (I suppose that 'kind' MC's penchant for 'breaking' his female opponents can be... explained, by his hating the opposing factions so much that, to his way of thinking, those aligned with them deserve to be humiliated and/or dominated, even if that is via sexual means - and that the eldritch corruption is probably exacerbating both his sexual desires and dominating tendencies; I just hope that the 'kind' and 'cruel' paths don't converge too much in this Act or else that might lose a big part of the original appeal of this game)

Luccassor

You also have to think in game the organization ha probably spread propaganda about how the MC and Fay is evil incarnate an they are the only one that save even though they show no concern for life and they really started the whole thing as is so diplomacy is not an option, plus the mc has tried talking with most of the bosses and they did not listen and there is the option to release them after the battle it’s jut tied to the game mechanics that you need them your side plus the war is not over yet it has just begun if you want you could jest leave them in the dungeon until the am is over and so far that is the only way arc has put in the game yet remember he adds new features all the time.

Redpyramid

One more thing - the 'good guy' route, more accurately the 'kinder dictator' route, doesn't actually have to involve 'brutal rape': you can exile the bosses or you can just keep them in the dungeon until the war is over (although I suppose that once you do send them to the dungeon, there isn't an option to decide not to mentally break them and just exile them directly - though if that's what you wanted to do, you could have just done that to begin with) But there should not be any expectation of there being a way to 'diplomatically' bring a former opponent on side - all of them chose to work with the Organization despite the Organization being the ones who brought war to the city and being actively trying to wipe out the stronghold where the MC's faction is held up; none of them are fighting on the Organization's behalf because their family is being held hostage or some misunderstanding of the MC being the one who brought war to the city (maybe this game would have *potentially* been more interesting as a narrative RPG where these sorts of situation crop up, but it's a map conquest RPG so that kind of ruins the atmosphere) It makes perfect sense to me that if these bosses are to be 'converted' over to the MC's faction, that they would need to be 'convinced' via being 'mentally broken' the way that Gwen and Chloe were at the end of Act 1 This game's prologue makes clear that controlling/coercing people to do things they weren't originally willing to do is the MC's 'hammer' in this game and that should have made clear that dominating sex was always going to be part of it - if you don't like that, you should have dropped this game a long time ago

Luccassor

A few things I need to clear up here then: firstly, I'm not for rape in general (in real life at least) or for murdering non-combatants; I just feel that someone who has already killed people (or tried to), not out of personal self-defense but as an active participant in combat, yet feels morally justified in expecting the right to be able to surrender is a coward who can't accept responsibility for the blood that is already on their hands and whose survival is the result of a moral double-standard And, I'm aware that refusing to allow prisoners of war to be released after war is over is a 'war crime'; I'm saying that, crime or not, it would be hard to accept someone who has actively been trying to kill you and threatens to do so again, if you let them go free, to just be let go - either you're the aggressor, in which case you never had the moral high ground to begin with and your choice not to kill anyone who surrenders doesn't change the fact that you're already a murderer of anyone who didn't surrender but was just protecting their own homeland, or they were the aggressor, and if so, their survival is due to your having higher standards than theirs and taking the chance to bring them in alive rather than simply killing them when you have the right to do so I'd also like to point out that these aren't exactly volunteer soldiers who have agreed to respect the Geneva Conventions while fighting each other either (not that that's really much better - like I said, I see war itself as evil and trying to engage in it without being tainted by that evil as a fool's errand, no matter how many rules you attach to it to make you feel better about killing other people; if you sign up to join the army, you've chosen to potentially engage in evil, however necessary that evil may be, for better or worse; I however would not join an army in real life since I have no intention of making myself a legitimate military target for either killing or capture) More to the point however, you seem to have lost track of something really important here: 'Awaken' is a power that dominates and overrides the will of other people - it is not a 'good guy' power, simply a less destructive form of domination than the complete personality obliteration that 'Shatter' involves; overriding a person's personality is still a form of 'killing' them - it's just that it leaves another/altered person behind; its use would be considered criminal coercion/compulsion in reality (for that matter, the 'Aura' power would be considered 'date rape' in reality as well) and a kinder version of the protagonist notes that 'Control' and 'Awaken' are not good powers to use, but they're all he has to get the majority of his allies onside and the people he uses it on are, as already mentioned, not good people themselves to begin with and he only does so because they are actively trying to cause him problems or to control him in the first place; if you have a genuine problem with the fictionalized depictions of coercive sex, you should have dropped this game during Act 2 since any use of 'Awaken' is this by definition; what occurs in Act 3 is simply domination via forced sex but without the mind control magic this time I will say though that you do have a point that the fact that, unlike the first few bosses who seem to be Organization patsies set up specifically to block the MC or act as their proxies in those districts, the most recent bosses just seem to be wanting to defend their own homes, making the MC look like an unwarranted aggressor; it would be good if the pre-battle dialogue more clearly presents the district bosses as more directly cooperating with the Organization and the MC is fighting them because that's the only way to get them to stop - that would make both the fact that the MC is invading their districts and his domineering attitude towards them in the dungeon more justified

Luccassor

Then fuck off. Nobody is forcing you to stay here and talk about this.

Wild Bill

Yes cause an incomplete porn game that is being worked on by one person that has weekly updates it probably just has not been put In yet also if you don’t like the game anymore leave no one is forcing you to play I am tired of arguing with someone over a still being worked on porn game with plot and for being “evil” cause I can see this is just a video game and not real life

Redpyramid

I need help because I think that THE GOOD ROUTE shouldn't involve brutal rape? And that criticism is just "trying to stir up trouble"? If you don't like my criticism you don't have to read it, good day.

Wild Bill

You are looking into a h game way to seriously and need some help also if you don’t like don’t play no one is forcing you to all I see is you trying to stir up trouble good day

Redpyramid

You won't get the other two meals (they all do the same thing) but you will get a lot of other recipes, some of which are being introduced in 0.18.7 :) The rehabilitation centre requires the Industrial area to be conquered, which you likely already have done, but the code isn't in the game yet to allow you to start building things. Soon(tm)! The extra stats will come into play at certain points in Act 3, yes, as will the Eldritch currency. Other than that, though, no spoilers! ;)

If you believe that raping or murdering prisoners of war is acceptable, then *you* are the evil one, buddy. Mistreating PoWs or refusing to release them after the war is over are both crimes against humanity. There being no way to convert them to our cause diplomatically or using Awaken like in the previous act is easily the worst thing about act 3.

Wild Bill

It’s as they say war is hell it’s now who wins it who survives and right now it looks like there is no law, no order, you have to do what got to survive this and maybe restore order for the hero side at least never tried the “evil” route and I also like the strategy game play make the most sense after act two

Redpyramid

While I'm at it, I'm also curious if the last two columns in the Stats screen are still relevant or if the Potions that are marked as the Eldritch's currency have any use either (I didn't find one in Act 2, though there are probably a few things I missed there since I'm also missing two of Jessica's outfits, Gwen's harlequin outfit and Pixie's last outfit - and 'cocksleeve' title, though I'm fine ignoring that, but also Chloe's 'bimbo' title, though I'm putting that down to not messing with her personality)

Luccassor

Regarding the MC's abandonment of diplomacy in the dungeon, even if played as a good guy, I always figured that it fell under the sense that once the MC has been forced to capture their opponent by force and without any change to their willingness to change sides, even a good guy would stop caring about their opponent's past life and see their opponent as having forfeited the right to maintain their prior perspective (I know that I wouldn't be willing to let an opponent who's brushed aside diplomacy and continues to mock me during imprisonment simply go back to their old life once war's over just coz' they survived losing, but then again, I'm inclined to view war itself as evil made necessary by the actions of an aggressive party and therefore alters the entire morality of the use of force, the right to surrender simply to avoid getting killed even after one has already taken up arms and whether regular co-existence can occur without one side being permanently altered - I may have a rough view of justice and weigh the worth of free will a little less for those who choose to harm innocents/those who haven't taken aggressive actions towards the original actor) There's also the fact that the MC has probably gotten a little corrupted themselves by the eldritch infestation, and probably wants to satisfy his sexual desires as much as to dominate his opponents, and even the nice version of them had to 'Awaken' most of the females he's currently working with into submission anyway to avoid getting killed or otherwise - with the exceptions of Ami and Hana (if they were saved) and maybe-sorta Pixie, they weren't great people beforehand but they're *somewhat* better people now for having their personalities and perspectives altered by being 'Awakened' and that will definitely have altered the MC's perspective themselves on how he should feel about dominating others into submission I might be one of the few players who didn't mind the change to a semi-strategic map control gameplay for Act 3 - I think that it's suitable for how Act 2 went down; at the least, Gwen got a fair amount of development from the Bar interactions and the Beach and Park dates, at least comparable to other characters available in Act 2 like Chloe and Jessica

Luccassor

Hey, I know that this is potentially asking for spoilers, but I can't help but be curious about two things: I've figured out that the food item that you initially get access to in Act 3 depends on what you choose as your first meal from the convenience store in the Prologue, but is there a way to get access to the other meals during Act 3 itself? Potentially more importantly though: beating Goons when Looking for Trouble has Jessica mention the possibility of building a rehabilitation center - is this something that will become available after conquering a certain number of districts the way that Emma's trauma is implied to be fixable by a certain point?

Luccassor

I see Rachel is yet another idiot who is surprised that siding with the villains has consequences. Our guy trying to play nice even if he's a bad guy is a little odd. And again, it's really weird that if he *isn't* a bad guy that once he defeats her he just abandons this attempt at dialogue and rapes her into submission. This whole battle map takeover bullshit is just terrible compared to how the game used to be. Really considering whether the game is even worth supporting anymore the way it's gone, the quality has gone down in just about every way. Rachel is hot though, not enough redheads around. Molly is so excited about our world, even in the state it's in, it's cute. I just wish that she had got to see it better before. Taking her shopping for new clothes would have been great, and then she would have had some things to do with her paperdoll. There doesn't seem to be anything really to talk to Gwen about yet. It's a shame, she's criminally underutilised. We barely got to know her in act 2, which IMO was a big mistake; for changes to her personality from her injury to have the most impact, she should have been well-developed before. I *really* think that act 2 was rushed, and there should be more development on it. And I couldn't even *get* the damn dream with Qarinah to trigger, I spent like two weeks waiting for it but it never came.

Wild Bill

It *should* allow for that kind of thing. It should be *really easy* to have multiple characters on screen at once, though having the current speaker highlighted is a bit more complex.

Wild Bill

Unfortunately Ren'py's "side image/speaker" code doesn't naturally allow for that sort of thing. What you're thinking of would require a rework of the system and two extra lines of code EVERY TIME the speaker/emotion changed. Which is yikes. I've been tossing the idea around in my head, though, and I MIGHT be able to figure out a kind of hack to get them to hang around... not sure, though :P

When in a conversation, would it be possible to keep the paper dolls of everyone that is present visible (instead of being on-screen only when speaking)? Maybe have the person that's speaking move closer to the camera (get bigger) when they speak when there's multiple people? 🤷‍♂️ When the MC speaks and no one is on-screen, it kinda feels like you're talking to yourself.

Renagede77

Should be fixed now! Sorry for the inconvenience!

in fact any interaction in the dungeon seems to

Checking prisoners in the dungeon Act 3 gives the error, "An exception has occurred,"