"The Mark of Gideon" Full Reaction! - Star Trek: TOS Season 3
Added 2024-11-15 19:06:38 +0000 UTCFollow along using your own copy of the episode!
How does this one rank for you?
Comments
You know... I think this was the first episode where Bunny didn't make a comment about the clothes the woman was wearing. (understandable...Odanna's outfit wasn't that impressive.)
Carlos Stevens
2024-11-23 02:12:57 +0000 UTCBTW, IMHO, DS9 was the best Star Trek series. I invite other subscribers to dispute this assertion.
Carlos Stevens
2024-11-23 01:31:02 +0000 UTCWait a second! You said, cartoon series and movies... but, what about The Next Generation? What about DS9, Voyager, Enterprise??? (there is no Star Trek after Enterprise... just sayin')
Carlos Stevens
2024-11-23 01:29:11 +0000 UTCThanks!
bunnytails
2024-11-17 23:18:27 +0000 UTCThanks!
bunnytails
2024-11-17 23:16:58 +0000 UTCIt's weird, right?
bunnytails
2024-11-17 23:16:49 +0000 UTCThose are some very good questions you pose.
bunnytails
2024-11-17 23:16:21 +0000 UTCIt did cross my mind that they wouldn't really have the space to build a replica of the Enterprise on their planet, but like you, I can let it slide. At least this time. :P
bunnytails
2024-11-17 23:15:15 +0000 UTCI don't think I've been spoiled on any Star Trek episodes from the summary, but it's happened several times when I'm watching The Legend of Korra on Netflix and it's REALLY annoying.
bunnytails
2024-11-17 23:12:32 +0000 UTCI actually didn't even realize the birth control message until reading the comments about it. x.x
bunnytails
2024-11-17 23:10:40 +0000 UTCThanks for explaining about the Federation more! One of my favorite songs by Cyndi Lauper "Sally's Pigeons" is about the death of one of her childhood friends due to a back-alley abortion as a teenager.
bunnytails
2024-11-17 23:01:37 +0000 UTCAbsolutely, Dave! I’m also curious to see Bunny’s reaction to The Animated Series, which I consider Season 4. DC Fontana wrote some great animated episodes as well as being script editor (I think). Also great that a youngster like Bunny keeps finding insight into TOS I’ve somehow missed after watching it for years!
Trilogian
2024-11-17 22:37:06 +0000 UTCHey Trilogian - you're absolutely right * I'm a 66 yr old boomer , never really watched next generation - and a lot of the animated series was written by D C Fontana - some really good plots for "a cartoon" anyway Bunny makes ST Orig. series fun again 📺
dave zink
2024-11-17 22:02:49 +0000 UTCOK. First of all, Bunnytails is an official Trekkie. Secondly, I must be brief, as this thread is huge. Season 3 gets a lot of scorn it doesn’t deserve. It’s maybe not always as strong, but I’ll take any Season 3 over any Next Gen. Still some great eps to come (and The Animated Series, which pulls no punches with scripts). Also upcoming in Season 3, my least favorite ep except for The Alternative Factor (yeesh). Thanks for another great watch along!!
Trilogian
2024-11-17 20:24:52 +0000 UTCThe answer for Gideon is so obvious. Starfleet has supposedly cataloged hundreds of Earth type planets perfectly adequate for colonization. Relocate as many as are willing to a few of these worlds. Not only giving them a new chance at life, but, removed from their sterile environment, new atmospheres brimming with bacteria and germs will eventually give them a more normal .life expectancy.
Mark Chrisco
2024-11-16 23:53:40 +0000 UTCYeah, so. My main problem with this episode is that they are are will to introduce a deadly disease but not willing just, you know, use a damn condom? Don’t buy it.
Matthew Graves
2024-11-16 22:44:33 +0000 UTCHey Bunny Hope you're doing well today -- this is a good episode -- Spock was being very patient with the Gideon ambassador LYING through his teeth ! - they used Kirk and the daughter's immune system to cure the disease -- thank God for science - anyway thanks for the reaction again 🩷🩷🍒🍒 Have a wonderful one !!
dave zink
2024-11-16 16:58:54 +0000 UTCAside from the lovely Odana and the IDEA of a duplicate Enterprise, this episode never made any sense to me at all. All the odd reasonings you comment on just don't work. And the biggest mysteries of all were not even addressed: Where on Gideon was there room for a full duplicate of the Enterprise? But even more baffling ... how did Gideon pull off such a replica? How did they have the plans for not only a Federation starship (something the Klingons would give a whole quadrant for), but specifically the Enterprise in particular, down the very screens currently flashing on the bridge? One must assume that one of the first places Kirk would go would be his own quarters. Did he find duplicates of all his own stuff there? Did he ever think to launch a shuttlecraft for a look around? If he did, would he find he was surrounded by thousands of Gideon folks on a football field somewhere? And how did they miss that the transporter coordinates not being the same when they beamed Ben Childress from "Mudd's Women" aboard from the council chamber? No sense at all.
J. Scott Phillips
2024-11-16 03:16:14 +0000 UTCBunny. Absolute right. This is a decent 1 watch episode. The only reason to rewatch is to marvel at the beauty of the actress that plays Odana.
Mark Gosine
2024-11-16 02:55:24 +0000 UTC"also, the bald 2nd in command who gets beamed up to the ship is the lead miner way back from "Mudd's Women"" Really. Wow, that's interesting. I was thinking more Dr. Evil. %).
Mark Gosine
2024-11-16 02:47:45 +0000 UTCHey Bunny, good reaction. Can't argue with you... it's definitely super fun first 3/4 of the episode, great mystery going on, teasing out things here and there. Nice, thoughtful script and subdued acting throughout. The last fifteen minutes don't really rise to the occasion but I'm not going to blame this on 3rd season woes or Freddy F... it's just not a dramatically great ending. But there are not-dramatically-great endings in all of the seasons, not just the 3rd. As for the elephant in the room, the building of an entire starship Enterprise on a planet with no room: totally not bothered by it. The writers were trying to make a point about over-population and came up with a horrific, ironic solution introducing disease to their people in order to save them. So many, SO MANY, episodes of ST introduce concepts that you just gotta roll with or you're not going to enjoy the episode. Even the best episodes: Mirror Mirror, City on The Edge, Amok Time... all of them, as good as they are, ask us to believe some crazy sh*t in order for them to get on with the story. So, a desperate planet building a replica of the Enterprise does not bother me. The leader is motivated and their solution is unique because their problem is unique, in a very sci-fi way... also, the bald 2nd in command who gets beamed up to the ship is the lead miner way back from "Mudd's Women"... The women! ; )
Skyman's Follies
2024-11-16 00:18:13 +0000 UTCGrr, the episode description literally spoils the plot on Paramount+. This episode and the following three are new to me. I was kinda surprised that this is basically a birth control (and to a lesser extent, an abortion episode). Kinda daring for 1960. But unfortunately I agreed with Bunny that this episode is full of holes. The first of which is... why kidnap and seduce Kirk, why create a replica of the ENTIRE Enterprise when they could have just asked for some viruses to curb their population? It's like planning a bank heist for a carton of milk. Not to mention that the Earth by this time will have already solved their overpopulation issues by traveling to and colonizing other planets. And if Gideon is also capable of space travel, they shouldn't have overpopulation issues either. I just think the episode takes it to such an extreme that its completely unbelievable. I also believe in certain theories that a species cannot propogate beyond its capacity if there aren't enough resources. Because lack of resources inevitably leads to predation and war, which itselfs curbs populations. But anyway this is beyond the scope of the episode...
SuicuneSol
2024-11-16 00:09:10 +0000 UTCSorry, I was trying to say that (from what I was taught in school) it was still against the law to MAIL the pills in the US. I'll have to look up to see when the law was changed. Of course the pills were legal to buy and use.
Greg Polander
2024-11-15 23:37:30 +0000 UTCThat is incorrect. The birth control pill was invented in 1960. By the end of the decade, it was not only legal but used worldwide.
SuicuneSol
2024-11-15 23:35:46 +0000 UTCStranding Kirk on an empty replica of the Enterprise with an attractive blonde would make for a great premise, if it wasn't on a planet in which personal space doesn't exist. Obviously they have no room for such a thing, yet here we are in the third season, trying to make sense of it all. The only way this could work is if the Gideonites had access to something like a holodeck, in which it would seem to Kirk that the vastness of the Enterprise interior was real, but such a concept didn't exist in Trek until the animated series. Even so, the sudden arrival of Spock at one part of the ship while Kirk and Odona were on another would have likely exceeded their holodeck's capacity. The actual reason for the alternative use of the Enterprise sets was, of course, the third season's shrunken budget. (The same reason that required last week's episode to have an invisible starship and guest stars in identical costumes.) As usual, the writing falls short of the previous seasons' standard so that an interesting concept feels poorly executed. Frankly, I find this approach to overpopulation/birth control to be at least as heavy-handed as the previous episode's approach to racial bigotry. The second season's "A Private Little War" was obviously an allusion to Vietnam, yet came across as less in-your-face overall. (Just my opinion; your mileage may vary.) We have to take what Fred Freiberger and his third-string writing staff gives us, but we don't have to pretend it's good. The wheels are starting to come off but the car keeps on going. Hold on to something, things are only going to get bumpier.
Lee
2024-11-15 21:41:17 +0000 UTCPretty high on my list, though maybe not top 10. Liked it when Spock neck pinched one of the Gideons and the other landed on his keys? Last week's episode was about race, here it's population explosion. They seem to be sticking to that method of topical stories, which makes TOS different. Odona is memorable, wearing another of those see-through dresses, but not wired with sensors like the one Diane Muldaur wore. Bunny doesn't go where the script is supposed to take us, assuming that Kirk and Ordona are on the actual Enterprise and looking for the crew, and not in a replica interior. It stumped me IIRC. Great references bunny @thank you!
William Terry
2024-11-15 20:56:42 +0000 UTCI agree with many of your comments about this episode, Bunny. It's a very fun watch the first time, trying to figure things out and determine what is going on. However, after you've seen it you realize all of the issues the plot and pacing has, the confusing message, and the abrupt ending, and for me due to all of this it fits in the 'below average' ranking -- not a bad episode, just not a strong one. The usual good things about a Star Trek episode are here -- great guest acting from people who would go on to be in many shows and movies, great camera work and music, fun interactions. And you get to learn a little more about Kirk and how he sees things and his personality. Like the last episode you watched, this one is trying to send a message -- although unlike the last one this one is not as heavy handed and is more on form for what Star Trek does -- trying to subtlety send a message. This one has to do with birth control and abortion, two hot topic issues for politics and many people when this episode was written and released (1968-1969). And they are still today....I guess some things never change. The Giddon's really operated like a more extreme branch of the Catholic Church, in holding that all life was special and could not be stopped or taken. The writers were trying to show one possible example of what might happen to Earth if that belief was carried to it's extreme and logical conclusion. And everyone is so brainwashed by society that they never stop to question that there might be another, perhaps better way, of handling these issues. It's not a new idea -- this plot shares a lot in common with some older sci-fi stories that also dealt with the issue of birth control and overpopulation. In the late 60's abortion was strictly illegal. This was before Roe V Wade (1973) so if you wanted one done you had to see a back alley doctor, which carried a number of health risks. (Some games have explored this as well -- the best example that comes to mind is the old school puzzle/FMV game The 11th Hour, the follow up to The 7th Guest, in which the consequences of a back alley abortion is a major plot point in the game). And birth control, while legal, could not be sent over the mail - that was against federal law at the time. A lot of people were agitating for these things to be changed, and Star Trek looked at the issues in this episode and was having Kirk argue that there were 'sound' reasons for the laws to be changed. (It also goes to show how progressive Kirk is, and is a great counter to the argument that he just obeyed orders and didn't care about anything but his ship). The plot could have been done better. I agree with all of the plot holes that you found in this episode, Bunny, and would also add that to re-create a set of the Enterprise was a MAJOR undertaking. There must have been a better way for the Gideon's to do all this? So you end up with the draping of a great episode bogged down by the details -- sadly a common theme for season three. The Federation government and how it operates, like most things Star Trek, was first set up and explored in the original series but was fully fleshed out and developed in later shows. In short, the Federation is set up a lot like the US government -- there is a Federation council with elected reps from each of the member worlds, there is a Federation president who rules on a fixed term, and there is a Federation Supreme Court. The branches of the Federation government are many, but one of the most important is Starfleet, which is the scientific and military branch of the Federation. It is charged with exploring space, advancing science, and defending the Federation from hostile forces. Due to the more peaceful nature of the Federation, Federation ships were designed as 'balanced' ships and while they had good shields and weapons, they were not as strong or powerful as other races. (And this is reflected very well in the many Star Trek games as well). It wasn't until MUCH later when the threat of the Borg came about (I can mention that since you've seen the movie) and other threats that the Federation finally started to build 'pure' warships, more aimed at war first and science and exploring secondary. There's not much commentary or reviews on this episode it seems, besides the fact that some folks consider it a 'best worst' episode. It looks like this episode has been mostly forgotten about, for good or for ill.
Greg Polander
2024-11-15 20:31:52 +0000 UTC
