"The Ultimate Computer" Full Reaction! - Star Trek: The Original Series Season 2
Added 2024-07-12 18:00:38 +0000 UTC
Comments
Yes. However we define "intelligence," and whether AI meets that definition or not, it isn't the same thing as "sentience." If we ever discover how sentience comes to be, I feel almost certain it will be by studying the differences between living things that do not appear to be sentient and those that do (specifically, looking at the most advanced non-sentient creatures and the least-advanced sentient creatures). I *don't* think it will be by our machines suddenly acquiring sentience because their microprocessors gained a few more cycles, or because their machine learning algorithm hits some magic number of connections, or the like. I think there's a place in a utopian future for machines to do a lot of routine work for us, even routine mental work, but that's not the key to reaching a utopian future. The key to that is shifting our worldview away from viewing full-time employment as good, unemployment as bad, and the unemployed as lazy or morally deficient. For a utopia, unemployment should be the *goal*. Who ever heard of a utopian sci-fi novel where everyone still works 50 hours a week at the mill? π
Derek H.
2024-08-03 23:24:17 +0000 UTCTotally agreed about the too-happy end of the episode. That's one of the worst aspects of episodic TV, and the problem was particularly bad in action-adventure shows, detective shows, thrillers, etc. The stories have to have stakes, which often means that people die, but then by the end of the episode (or at least before the start of the next episode), everything has to reset back to zero and everything has to be all happy again. So there are stakes briefly within the episode, but the effects don't ultimately mean anything. For years, only purely character drama shows such as soap operas were really allowed to have continuing stories for the most part. Things started to change in the 90s with shows like Babylon 5, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine's later seasons, and (to a lesser extent) The X-Files. But the one that *really* influenced everything that came after it was Twin Peaks in 1990. It was completely serial like a soap opera, and it openly sabotaged all of the normal TV expectations of how characters were supposed to react to tragedy (along with many other usual TV tropes). At Laura's funeral (for anyone who hasn't seen Twin Peaks, this is not a spoiler; finding Laura's body is literally in the first scene of the series), one of the characters openly reacts in aghast disbelief at how unaffected many people seem to *actually* be despite their going through the motions, etc. And there are a bunch of moments like that, such as Laura's mother's grief being shown for much longer, and much less "sanitized" than would be normal for TV of that era, etc. Anyway, if the whole attitude of "Oh, those people I cared so much about a little while ago are dead, but everything's fine now" bothers you, that starts changing around 1990, when more and more non-soap opera shows become more serial and less episodic. EDIT: To be clear, I'm not assuming you don't already know this, Bunny, and trying to "mansplain" it to you. I'm just putting this info out there for the benefit of anyone who might not have known why shows used to do this, why they do it less now, and when/why it changed. π
Derek H.
2024-08-03 23:00:31 +0000 UTCYes indeed...AI does not need to be sentient to be dangerous.
Carlos Stevens
2024-08-02 21:01:12 +0000 UTCYes! Just re-watched your Galileo 7 reaction, and you mentioned that very thing! π
Trilogian
2024-07-16 01:29:02 +0000 UTCExcellent points, thank you!
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:28:44 +0000 UTCYes, that could be! It might be viewed like the laughter at the end of.. was it The Galileo Seven? A huge relief after (mostly) surviving a dire situation.
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:26:17 +0000 UTCThat's really cool!
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:23:50 +0000 UTCYeah for some reason I thought Scotty was holding the device so I was just really confused for a second!
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:23:39 +0000 UTCThanks so much, Timothy!
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:23:02 +0000 UTCI am glad to hear it!
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:22:38 +0000 UTCI love getting names and seeing faces of the people who are responsible for the in-lore creations, much like we got to see with Zephram Cochrane!
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:22:27 +0000 UTCYou make some very good points about the struggles of time constraints and editing! And I am glad I'm not the only one likely to miss the poor guy getting zapped!
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:19:46 +0000 UTCThank you, Dave!
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:18:11 +0000 UTCMy pleasure as always!
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:17:53 +0000 UTCThanks, glad you enjoyed it!
bunnytails
2024-07-15 06:17:04 +0000 UTCImpressive episode. Very poignant for today than ever before. Humanity is at a crossroads. Do we let machines do everything for us, and we are all Captain Dunsel, or do we reserve purpose for ourselves and our children through our own work and creativity. I don't worry so much about AI becoming sentient as predicted by Ray Kurzweil (sad little man) in his Singularity thesis; I don't believe an AI, that is dumb as a box of rocks, can become self-aware. We are more than the sum of our parts. Not to break theological on everyone, but there is more. I am an Engineer & Programmer. I could always be wrong, but I very much think I am not. To get around this the transhumanists believe we need to merge with machines. Count me out. I will be the self-avowed techno-luddite. I may have 20, 30 years left, but I truly hope to see a better future, and not the dystopian hellscape that we are being driven to by psychopaths like the Daystrom character. Seductive whispers and promises of saving humanity while actively setting it on a course of destruction.
Mark Gosine
2024-07-15 02:14:41 +0000 UTCAI is dumb as a box of rocks. It is impressive in its massive processing power (and power consumption) with regressive algorithms and neural networks but has no consciousness and will never have consciousness. It still relies on garbage in and garbage out, with no innate understanding of the world. It simply cannot. I only worry about the run-amok scenario that is portrayed in this episode. A killing machine that cannot be stopped. That is the true danger of AI.
Mark Gosine
2024-07-15 01:54:14 +0000 UTCKirk once again demonstrates his abiity to outwit a computer and make them "die." First Nomad, now M-5. Every off camera voice you heard in this episode was James Doohan. I think his voice lines outnumbered his Scotty lines. Daystrom is now added to Cochrane in great names from "Future History" In later versions of Trek their names will be coming up like Newton and Einstein do for us today.
Dave Riley
2024-07-14 21:49:12 +0000 UTCScotty called him Harper.
Lee
2024-07-13 16:53:24 +0000 UTCRed Shirt Count: 16. Alas unnamed crewman.
Carlos Stevens
2024-07-13 06:48:50 +0000 UTCOk Bunny, In spite of the hype, AI is no where near, where it need to be that it can replace humans. Don't get me wrong...I am a bit worried, but I can say AI has no volition of it's own... (yet).
Carlos Stevens
2024-07-13 06:26:26 +0000 UTCAh yes... Daystrom (remember that name). Believe it or not this episode actually inspired me to get involved in computers.
Carlos Stevens
2024-07-13 06:20:00 +0000 UTCStar Trek (Original) always made one think. Your reaction made me think as well, and Iβve seen The Ultimate Computer a hundred times! I think often the smiling ending is more about the crew and Kirk Spock McCoy beating the odds and surviving. Itβs maybe relief? The episode ends with Kirk in the Captainβs Chair, with Spock and McCoy on either side, as it should be!π
Trilogian
2024-07-12 23:46:26 +0000 UTCWow, I've seen this episode but forgot how good it was. Really loved your reaction and summation. As always!π₯°
ded cowbowee
2024-07-12 22:59:37 +0000 UTCYeah, that one red shirt death when they try to shut off the M5 the first time around happens super fast. It literally does happen in a blink. I was watching you and was like, "Huh, did Bunny pick up on that? Guess not." Perhaps McCoy should have done a "He's dead, Jim!" scene to introduce some additional gravitas. XD
SuicuneSol
2024-07-12 22:52:19 +0000 UTCThis was nice to watch on a Friday. A good one and a favorite as well. Great story, one which reflects our modern times. It seems to get MORE real every time I re-watch it. You guessed ahead of the story with intuitive insight, more than I had at first watch. π And in all the times I've watched this one, never have I thought of M-5 as being more human than Daystrom,when M-5 turned itself off. It's a true experience watching the episodes with your commentary. You guys take care out there.
timothy w moyer
2024-07-12 22:15:36 +0000 UTCAnother terrific first reaction. You always seem to anticipate things exactly right on a first viewing. Excellent insights! Aside from just being an exciting and well-conceived episode, it is also important to the Canon. It establishes Daystrom as the Steve Jobs of Star Trek, and is referenced and echoed throughout all subsequent Trek series. Most fans agree that the joking attitude at the end is inappropriate β probably the one significant mis-step in the teleplay. Otherwise, a fantastic story.
J. Scott Phillips
2024-07-12 22:07:41 +0000 UTCDespite the length of my previous post, I neglected to mention that James Doohan provided two voice performances in this ep: Commodore Enwright (the officer that gives Kirk his orders in the teaser and authorizes Wesley to destroy the Enterprise) and the M-5 computer itself! One last note: the space station in the remastered version is based on Starbase 47 from the Star Trek: Vanguard novel series. A very obscure reference, but a nice shout-out to the books, all of which are generally regarded as outside of official canon.
Lee
2024-07-12 21:56:34 +0000 UTCI actually didn't know that!
Greg Polander
2024-07-12 21:27:11 +0000 UTCYour right, got the numbers mixed up. Thanks, will edit.
Greg Polander
2024-07-12 21:25:23 +0000 UTCNot sure where you got the 540 number from, Gregory. This episode reminded us that the standard crew of a starship in this era is 430.
Lee
2024-07-12 21:11:09 +0000 UTCThis season has been a rough one for the crews of four Federation starships: RIP USS Constellation RIP USS Intrepid RIP USS Exeter RIP USS Excalibur That's over 1700 gold, blue, *and* red shirts dead. Yikes. All mock seriousness aside, this is a solid episode. It has the action elements that the network was constantly demanding, as well as the character moments that elevate the best TOS stories. The actors are doing their usual exemplary job, while the story is compelling and perhaps even more relevant today than when it originally aired. You can't ask more than that. This season is far and away my favorite, due in no small part to the creative efforts of Gene Coon, who served as the show's producer & head writer for sixteen of its twenty-six episodes. Not to take anything away from his successor, John Meredyth Lucas (also the director of this ep), who did a superb job with the remainder of the season. I think Bunny will appreciate both gentlemen's work even more when the true nature of the third season becomes apparent. After all that, my point was going to be that it will be difficult to limit a 'best of season two' list to only ten episodes. My chronic long-windedness got the best of me again! Even though Gregory partially encroached on my returning actor shtick, I'll add that Barry Russo originally played Security Chief Giotto in "The Devil in the Dark" (who did such a poor job against the aggressive miners that his "promotion" to commodore is really baffling). (No disrespect intended, Gregory. π)
Lee
2024-07-12 21:07:45 +0000 UTCWell, we're really winding down the season aren't we and, yeah, what a great episode. I love William Terry's comments - though I'm the exact opposite in that I love this episode for all the talking, lol. What great conversations between the trio - maybe most notably that scene in Kirk's cabin with McCoy -- harkening all the way back to the unaired 1st pilot "The Cage"... the doctor offering solice to his Captain, yet again, with a stiff drink. Interesting direction by John Meredyth Lucas (who also had his hands full as a producer by this point). Bunny, I'm the same as you: something about the framing of that shot when Scotty's engineer gets zapped has me looking at the laser and so when he disappears, I almost always miss it - and it's such a cool effect! Captain Dunsel is always a bitter moment and scene and after scene, Shatner just nails every moment for me. Yeah, the chuckling at episode's end is kind of tone deaf, but, they never really have enough time to finish these wonderful stories, do they? I mean most of them could be features if not longer. But the editors do a fantastic job of cramming all that story and exposition and philosophical dialogue into a jam-packed fifty odd minutes and so i think they just can't help but feeling rushed sometimes. Anyways, hats off the editors, the unsung heroes! : )
Skyman's Follies
2024-07-12 21:02:52 +0000 UTCThe thing about Star Trek they put right and wrong in the episodes M 5 felt guily for murdering the other star ships -really good episode maybe thats why it lasted so long-thanks for showing it!πβ€οΈβ€οΈ lots a love!
dave zink
2024-07-12 20:10:05 +0000 UTCA near great episode! They spend a lot of time talking, not doing, which keeps it out of my top ten list. I think it's interesting and William Marshall played an amazing Daystrom. He's not evil, even though he expressed little pity for the crew on those starships. He was one of the most tragic characters ever. I feel that if he is not totally reeducated, which I've heard is the standard federation rehabilitation method, that Daystrom will try to atone for his errors in constructing the M-5. Add one red shirt: never stand between the ultimate computer and the nearest outlet! I love the fleet battle between the M-5 and the starships. I understand Kirk's nervous LOL at the end. In the Battle of Jutland, the Germans scored some early hits that caused two British ships to explode, leading the British admiral Beatty to remark "There seems to be something wrong with our ships today". I view it like that. The life on a Navy ship is almost complete boredom with the present possibility of sudden horrible death by explosion, drowning, asphyxiation, etc. That leads to a fatalistic attitude. The pattern on bunny's top is very pretty! Thanks for the wonderful, penetrating, reacts!
William Terry
2024-07-12 19:49:37 +0000 UTCI've always really liked this episode -- not in my top 10, but up there for sure. This episode has all of the markings of a great one -- plenty of action and drama; great guest actors again with Barry Russo as Commodore Wesley and William Marshall as Dr. Daystrom; a great villain with the M-5; action taking place totally on board the Enterprise which allows for a focused and tight episode; and great character interaction between Kirk, McCoy and Spock. As you noticed, this episode is just as important with the issues it raises today in 2024 as it was when it first came out in 1968 -- the rise and ongoing use of computers (and now AI), and how much they should be used and what the proper balance between humans and machine is. As Kirk comments in this episode, "Everyone feels sorry for someone when he loses his job to a computer, but then when the computer comes for HIS job no one can help." So I always got the impression that the idea behind the M-5 was that there would still be humans on the ship, but a much smaller crew. Note the landing party suggestions that M-5 made. It STILL needs humans to actually beam down to planets (and beam over to ships) to survey, help, etc. So it wouldn't totally replace a crew, but going own from 540 to about 20 is huge. Speaking about the crew and the 430 -- I agree with you the tone of the end of the episode didn't really match what happened. Yes, greater damage and loss of life was avoided, but a lot of people already did lose their lives. Considering the Enterprise only attacked with phasers, my guess is the other Federation starships didn't have their shields up due to it just being a mock war game with dummy phasers, and therefore was totally unprepared when a full phase strike was made. Seeing Dr. Daystrom as he breaks down in this episode and the conflicting and huge rush of emotions going through him is a highlight of this episode. Great acting performance. How Kirk defeated the M-5 reminds me of how he did with the NOMAD probe from season one -- just this time with emotions as opposed to logic. Great reaction as always Bunny and thanks!
Greg Polander
2024-07-12 19:46:31 +0000 UTC
