Down is the New Up p20

Sorry, I just didn't know it was that difficult for people. For me it's "Oh, this is a piece of fiction. Okay."

BioYuGi

Honestly I forget why I do it that way. I worked it all out months ago when I put the formulas into the spreadsheet. Frankly, I can't even decipher half the back-end shit in it anymore, because I didn't label things that well. But, as you say, good enough is good enough.

Ariana Legna

What do you mean? My experience was the exact opposite. LBSM is not like a typical DC/Hasbro/Marvel/etc “realistic” movie where you must work really hard to suspense your disbelief. Ideally you should try to forget everything you knew from school or else instead or “dramatic” action you see a gagfest (I'm supposed to believe that THIS happened? And then THAT? And now they are doing WHAT?). Sure, I try to do that, but it's hard, I'm not a White Queen. She “have believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast”, I'm not as flexible. LBSM where one just need to believe that anti-gravity exist (and is used for many things: chairs, tables, and, of course, the infamous Atlas bras) is much easier. I mean: you could take a hoverboard (this thing exists, suprisingly enough, in our own universe: <a href="http://goo.gl/lov6vC" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/lov6vC</a> ) and extrapolate from there. I'm yet to see a case where something else is flat-out impossible. Some things are pushing the borders, sure, but they don't reach the “it's just physically impossible no matter what” stage. For example overnight growth of Jan (or similar development of Alexis) looks crazy, and it is, but then again, if stag could grow BONE with a speed of “½ inch or more per day” then why couldn't Jan and/or Alexis grow soft tissues at a speed of a few inches per night? They are easier to grow than bone…

Khimru

Why not just use the volume for an ellipsoid rather than some overly complicated deconstruction of shapes? Also, I believe you mentioned it before, your spreadsheet or what anyone uses is really just a rough estimate. The time and effort to get super-precise measurements is pointless beyond a personal academic interest. At the end of the day, a simple, robust approximation that gets you in the ballpark works just fine. Not to mention most people don't give a shit, anyway.

zdemian

But for large-sized breasts “hemisphere + a spherical segment, with planes cutting the segment at both ends” must be extremely close to Hatt's approach! You are basically cutting out tiny shallow “cup” to attach breasts to the chest wall…

Khimru

Indeed. Wikipedia approach gives us about 7700cc and Hatt's approach will give about 15000cc, but at these sizes Wikipedia is supposed to give slight underestimation while Hatt is supposed to give serious overestimation thus your 8700cc look like a nice compromise. When you go for larger sizes Wikipedia's approach quickly starts giving totally unrealistic sizes. 2x larger than Hatt for “All the best stuff… needs a little bit of support” Alexis ( <a href="http://goo.gl/3iwkmt" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/3iwkmt</a> ) , 2¼x for “Subtle advertisement” Than ( <a href="http://goo.gl/TlJPez" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/TlJPez</a> ), 2⅖ for today's Than ( <a href="https://www.patreon.com/creation?hid=1579656">https://www.patreon.com/creation?hid=1579656</a> ) and so on.

Khimru

Ugh. Your new model may work better for Sadie or Kay (but they are not yet large enough for Hatts model to make sense anyway) but I think your model gives serious underestimation for Alexis and/or Than. Zdemian have portrayed Alexis and Than from quite a few times and it's easy to see that “breast root” is actually wider than woman's chest. Heck, if you'll take a look on real models (Minka, Chelsea, Beshine, etc) you'll see that shape is closer to Hatt's approach than to your “correction”. Your shape (or some approximation) could be achieved with St Cats “table top” method, but then it'll mean LARGER measurements around, not SMALLER because sphere has the best surface/volume ratio. No, the only fault of Hatt's model (for Alexis/Than-sized breasts, anyway) it the fact that he ignores squshines and the fact that breasts would not be completely spherical, because they sqush agains each other they would have shape which is somewhere between sphere and half-sphere (which will mean that shape of PAIR of breasts will be closer to a single sphere which will circumstance down). I usually consider them as ¾ sphere if I want more precise estimates. This gives breasts circumstance of (1+π)D, not (2+π)D, but also volume not 1⅓πR³ but 1⅛πR³, but then is most cases it's just not important enough. Sure, if you start from the diameter (or projection) you'll get results which differ by about 20%, but if you start with bra size (which Zdemian have helpfully supplied for Alexis and Than, but only for them) then difference will be mere 5%… not large enough difference to care usually.

Khimru

I just screencapped what I already had in there, sorry. I estimate a 34Z to come in at about 8,700 ccs each, about ~18 lbs each. Here's a picture that gives a rough idea of how I calculate breast volume using a few different shapes together (shapes are overlaid on an old pic of Kay, please excuse shitty MS Paint quality). H.E. = hemi-ellipsoid, S.S. = Spherical Segment, H.R.P. = halved rectangular prism. <a href="http://i.imgur.com/ZwJECSP.png" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/ZwJECSP.png</a> Of course, we have to be honest with ourselves that these are all just rough estimates designed to keep things as consistent *as possible*.

Ariana Legna

Aww… Looks pretty thorough, but… where is the result for Z-cup?

Khimru

For the record, I calculate my breast volumes using a combination of shapes, but hemisphere is the main one, not sphere, so my measurements would necessarily be much different than Hatts'. If we're looking at the breast in perfect profile, I basically conceptualize it as a hemisphere, which may attach to the body at the hemisphere's base, OR in the case of perkier breasts which project further from the body I use a hemisphere + a spherical segment, with planes cutting the segment at both ends. If I want a really sort or torpedo-style breast then I use a hemisphere attached to a cylinder of variable length. plus you have to figure in a halved rectangular prism that goes from the armpit to the tip of the hemisphere, which may have either a convex or concave bowing depending on what breast shape you're looking for.

Ariana Legna

I should clarify that "Behold" link is to a screencap of my spreadsheet. Cells in yellow take manual input and the rest dynamically update. You can do all kinds of neat configurations, but it's really only designed for my personal use (for writing my stories) so it's not very user-friendly to anyone else. I do, in fact, use the Wikipedia model, and I find it works well enough even at huge cup-sizes. Now, it's entirely possible that my bust-measurements are underestimated as a result of this, but "240 inches around" is sort of a meaningless number to most people anyway. What the hell does that look like? So, for convenience sake, I keep the "1 cup-size = X centimeters of breast diameter" rule, and most of my measurements are of the breast itself--projection from the chest, diameter, length, sag, weight, etc. Those are the measurements that people can envision. E.g. "her breasts protrude four feet from her chest" or, better yet I use relative descriptors like "her breasts hang down to her knees", but the spreadsheet helps me keep things as internally consistent as possible. Now, given the issues you and Hatts have pointed out, I may revisit my bust-measurement calculation, but honestly I'd do it in such a way: I'd maintain that 1 cup-size = X cm of breast diameter, because past an N cup (American sizing) there *are no cup sizes.* Not really, anyway, since cup-sizes are labeling systems used by bra manufacturers, and no one makes an E-9 bra (indicating that she's an E cup on her 9th go-'round of the alphabet), so we can just assume that once you pass a certain point, your cup-size is measured by breast diameter and not by bust circumference. This makes more sense anyway, really. Thus, our labeling problem is solved. However, there's still the issue of estimating the circumference, because that's still a fun number to know, even if it's not one that is exactly intuitive to relate to real-world sizes. I'll take a look at that and may revise my figures on this--bust measurement has always been one of my lowest-priority items because it doesn't factor directly into any of my calculations; that is, it's an output, not an input, and not one of the outputs I'm most concerned with, because even if it's not quite consistent, most people won't know/care. But, now that you've raise the issue, I suppose I do care. Still, Hatts' model doesn't work unless you are using perfectly spherical breasts as shown in that image. Even huge breasts, at least in a story like LBSM/UITND, have a breast root that is not wider than the woman's chest, because we're looking at a more natural shape. So, I'm thinking the measurement would be something more like this, actually: <a href="http://i.imgur.com/6FjUg5T.png" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/6FjUg5T.png</a> which would be much smaller than what Hatts proposes in his picture.

Ariana Legna

¿What do you mean? It's large article, yes, but the relevant table (last column) is here: <a href="http://goo.gl/qM9Fdu" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/qM9Fdu</a>

Khimru

Oops. Had wrong thing copied to the clipboard. Try this one: <a href="http://i.imgur.com/nkxZlSI.png" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://i.imgur.com/nkxZlSI.png</a>

Ariana Legna

Behold: <a href="http://goo.gl/8w7l6c" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/8w7l6c</a>

Ariana Legna

It's actually very easy to 'overthink' considering what you talk about every page . ;p

BioYuGi

No;just naive and impulsive.Lok at how she ended on her fiasco excursion to rescue Alexis with Kay:she meets a guy whose name she can never remember,lets him buy her a bum expansion,and she ends up with a (albeit beautiful) newborn child.

CZealot

You are scaring me. Do you really have such a spreadsheet with accurate estimates for Z-cup breasts? I mention Z-cup because this is where Wikipedia's approach no longer works (yes, believe me or not, but Wikipedia REALLY includes such table: <a href="http://goo.gl/vXJ5YQ" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/vXJ5YQ</a> ) and Djoser's approach ( <a href="http://goo.gl/QMQPD9" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/QMQPD9</a> ) is not yet accurate enough, too. How are you handling these “intermediate” sizes? As for Sadie's weight and it's effect on her life… that's what the very first page of the LBSM highlighted (as I noted long ago: <a href="http://goo.gl/XZKe4L" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/XZKe4L</a> ). Indeed we are talking about 150-250lbs breasts which sounds like a lot… and yes it IS a lot… but still… have you seen “120kg backpack challenge” ( <a href="http://goo.gl/RXhkvc" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/RXhkvc</a> ) ? That's more-or-less how Sadie's attempt to walk would look at first. She'll be clumsy, yes, but not immobile. And as I've said many times before: I like LBSM because it's unique comic in that regard—it's pretty clear that Zdemian have tried to do hard Sci-Fi! On the Mohs Scale ( <a href="http://goo.gl/qjS4XP" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/qjS4XP</a> ) LBSM is at level 4—it's “One Big Lie” ( <a href="http://goo.gl/0YH4Ig" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/0YH4Ig</a> ) is widespread anti-gravity systems. Everything else does not violate known science. Not even Cowgirls are breaking the laws of physics for they could be explained by some kind of mad scolar play with “real” mutations (as opposed to magical X-Men mutations). Note: not only Zdemian clearly thought about issues with weight (this is where he consciously decided to use pseudo-science: <a href="http://goo.gl/VHvBga" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/VHvBga</a> ) but things like stability of anti-gravity systems ( <a href="http://goo.gl/cjMZ6O" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/cjMZ6O</a> ), problems with blood pressure ( <a href="http://goo.gl/YH4Ys4" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/YH4Ys4</a> ) and metabolism ( <a href="http://goo.gl/KeFpA9" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/KeFpA9</a> )… ALL such things have clearly passed via som back-on-the-envelope calculations. I wouldn't be surprised to see subplot centered around limitations of action potential ( <a href="http://goo.gl/8w7l6c" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/8w7l6c</a> ) WRT insanely huge breasts at some point in the future! Today it just means that Than would need 0.15s to catch up when someone touches her nipples and this is probably not all that noticeable, but if there will be someone with much bigger breasts this time could grow to a few seconds which could certainly affect the story… or it could be mitigated with artificial semiconductor-based neuron paths, I dunno. It's really hard to “overthink” when one talks about LBSM… “DeltaG of Fantasy” is quite different in that regard… which makes it somewhat less fascinating to me.

Khimru

Realistically, she probably would need anti-grav bras as it stands. Breasts that size with that level of sphericity would be incredibly heavy. I don't think we have any canonical measurements of Sadie's bust (??), but assuming she's 85 inches around, which seems conservative, then we're talking about a pair of breasts that probably weigh at least 150 lbs together, possibly as much as 200 lbs. Now, it certainly is conceivable to carry around that much weight without technological assistance (there are people who weigh 400+ lbs and are still mobile, after all), but it would still be a major impediment to one's mobility. But this is a comic about huge inflating boobs, so it's probably best to not overthink it (says the guy with an excel spreadsheet that calculates things like breast volume and weight from cup-sizes)

Ariana Legna

You're welcome! And thanks for doing those overlays. That was fun to see.

Ariana Legna

Good eye. Unusual perspective and lack of visual anchors played havoc with my perception, apparently. If we'll use her navel to adjust height of 16th page then these two pages will match almost precisely WRT her waist… it's just completely covered by her boobs: <a href="http://goo.gl/WJ2cPZ" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/WJ2cPZ</a> Ok, you've convinced me: Sadie is beautiful, she's just caught from an awkward angle here. P.S. This also makes her breasts much larger which means that they are now at her “canonical” size… which means that magical Heather's “slurry” is indeed “Bondo for humans” and makes it possible to sculp body parts pretty precisely. That's amazing achievement! All real-life means are not as precise: some injections dissolve and become less pronounces with time, some irritate tissue and cause further swelling, situation when you inject something and it stays the exact same size is almost unheard of… as long as we are talking about biomaterials, that is. P.P.S. Thanks for enlightening me!

Khimru

Also, you can see clearly in your overlay that the navel in this picture is positioned higher than the navel in the older picture, conclusively proving that what you're call her "waist" is not the same as her actual waist as shown in the older picture. We are looking at her hips, here, and the difference in navel height points to the issue of pose--one is sitting and one is lying down. This does not look like an actual error to me.

Ariana Legna

In your overlay it shows clearly that in this picture we can't actually see Sadie's waist; it's obscured by her breasts. We see her hips, which do seem wider, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Also, it's unclear if we're the same *distance* from Sadie, in perspective. Thus, in this image we may be "closer" to her, resulting in her hips appearing larger.

Ariana Legna

LOL. I mean… I knew it's a joke and you don't plan to actually introduce kids with a huge tits in the LBSM (at least I hope so), but then I recalled Komoe Harumachi (of Eiken fame) and decided that it's better to imitate Buzz Killington rather than imitate a paedophile.

Khimru

Buzz Killington shall suffer none of this silliness!

zdemian

It's a fuckin joke dude.

BioYuGi

Couldn't 100% agree about Sadie look, unfortunately. Sure, her boobs look great, but her waist have suddenly become much thicker, too… compare this page to 16th page (Sadie is portrayed in very similar poses and conveniently at almost the same scale on these two pages): <a href="http://goo.gl/61o9mH" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/61o9mH</a> Almost 100% certain that it's a minor mistake in the picture and not actual development in the story: we've seen Sadie many times after that point and her waist is usually closer to what page 16 shows than to what this page shows.

Khimru

Probably true about appartment, but I'm not so sure about an anti-grav bra. I mean: anti-gravity gadgets, not just bra, are extremely common (in pATAgon, at least: <a href="https://www.patreon.com/creation?hid=1562603">https://www.patreon.com/creation?hid=1562603</a> ), they couldn't be TOO expensive or pATAgon will go bankrupt! Still it's nice to have a couple of characters who could at least walk without aid of gadgets… I still mourn loss of busty-yet-realistically-busty Miriam… I mean: if the most flat-chested character in your neighborhood is Annabel ( <a href="https://www.patreon.com/creation?hid=1640527">https://www.patreon.com/creation?hid=1640527</a> ) then your perception becomes seriously skewed.

Khimru

No-no-no. This dialogue will give me nightmares. I mean: 100lbs boobs on a kid? I like kids, I like idea of 100lbs breasts (or may be even 100 000 000lbs breasts), but together? Not my cup of tea.

Khimru

It was good she put her drunken follies aside. I do not think she could aford a anti-grav bra or a huge apartment if she wound up as big as one of the heavyweights of the series.

Clark Nova

Beautiful! Sadie is looking magnificent. And I love both the notions that a) drunk Sadie loves having bigger and bigger breasts; and b) that Kay realizes this fact and uses it as a way to get free clothing.

Kenneth

All right, so now that it seems Kay and Sadie are about starting comic size, where is Heather in all of this?

Guybuddy1

Don't listen to this person, kids Be irresponsible. You're kids, you can worry about responsibility later.

BioYuGi

Remember kiddos, please grow responsibly! XP

Emperorbassexe

I kinda liked the prior Sadie size m'self, but at least her friend from the office didn't end up with a pair of belugas so soon after her expansion... I guess?

TetsuKnife

Have we ever seen Kay and Than in the same place at the same time? I mean, I'm just sayin'...

mr.coma

Possible though unlikely. We know that she likes to borrow clothes from Sadie… even when they don't really fit: <a href="http://goo.gl/LXmj5l" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://goo.gl/LXmj5l</a> This time she was just lucky and received the full set of expensive custom-made bras for free…

Khimru

Why “almost like a prelude”? It's most definitely a prelude to that picture… Zdemian have said quite explicitly: “I don't really do anything non-canon. Exceptions being random fan art requests in commissions and during streams, for example.” <a href="https://www.patreon.com/creation?hid=1239548">https://www.patreon.com/creation?hid=1239548</a>

Khimru

That middle panel is absolutely glorious, and Kay looking good with her new size, but holy fuck is Sadie a gorgeous goddess of breastflesh.

BioYuGi

Yeah, the fact this happened twice when she was drunk makes me think she secretly likes it, though she may not like the problems that come with it.

BioYuGi

Kay? Actively manipulative and possibly malicious? I...hmmm.

Galka30

she loves the idea when she's drunk. maybe deep down she likes the idea of being bigger.

Ree Mcgee

This is almost like a prelude to 'Blowing Kisses to the Concrete Sky'.