Sub VS Dub
Added 2024-11-24 11:41:05 +0000 UTCOkay so who was going to tell me it was this controversial?! 😭
I remember a few people mentioning that it was a divisive thing in the anime community but omg I never KNEW it was that extreme that people would threaten to stop watching my content over it.
So why is it such a controversial topic? Is it a sense of elitism? Is it because they don't feel the acting is as good in English?
It's so wild to me that people get angry over how others choose to watch anime!
I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions on it!
(please keep discussions civil)
Comments
I watched a couple of episodes of Spy x Family with some friends and it reminded me of this conversation. I've watched it before in japanese, but this time it was dubbed. My thoughts: Dub is very good. Also the anime is super cute and funny, and would make a nice change from the tragedy you're being put through.
Driahva
2024-11-26 10:31:46 +0000 UTCI'm currently re-watching as we speak haha!! Just to look back and see what I missed!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-25 11:14:11 +0000 UTCi´m soo loking forward to the next 70ish episodes! I realy like to hear about your ideas and thoughts. Gives us all a chance to fall back to how it was when we also watched it the first time, trying to uncover all of the story.
ricardo böckmann
2024-11-25 11:05:27 +0000 UTCI've already put it together don't worry :) Only the thing is - he was outwitted to some extent. Annie didn't join the survey corps. If not for Armin, they likely would not have clocked on to a suspect at all. Whilst it all makes sense when you watch it numerous times - on a first watch it's very easy to miss all of that. I understand how it works now having finished the season and I've put all the points together. You'll see some of that in the Reacts as they come out over the week so don't jump the gun as you've only seen Ep 20 and not the additional 5 that follow haha! Other things I have come to understand taking a moment to think about it after the fact and as I'm writing my Series 1 Run Down to add onto Ep 25 :)
Sophie Anders
2024-11-25 10:34:59 +0000 UTCAs you are allready through with season 1, i think it´s fair enough to talk a bid more indept about this whole plan, just to show how erwin was thinking, what he picked up, and how his plan was staged. It was never the plan to catch the Female Titan, as at the point of creating the plan, there was no knowledge that the female existet. But it was the goal to catch an Enemy Intelligent Titan. The idea of where to look, came probably after analyzing the battle of Trost, because they kinda showed themself. By comparing both atacks, we where starting to get a pattern. First the Collosoal kicks in the outer Wall. Then a herd of "dumb" Titans swarm the city. Then the Armoured brakes in the inner gate. But wait, that part didn´t happen the second time. Why? What Changed? Eren happend. So the thought is, "Who ever is the enemy, MUST have witnessed Eren in Trost" First clue that they are inside the Millitary, as no civilian saw Eren. Then there is also the question of "Why wait 5 years between attacks? What for? If the goal is simple to destroy Humanity, why not walk from wall to wall and be done with it in like, a week, tops." So the attacks must have had a different strategic reason. Second clue, is ofcourse the Execution of the 2 captured titans. Also note, that specifly the Recruites where sent to have their gear checked afterwards. Then the branch choosing ceremony. Erwins speech was way over the top, scaring many recruits away. He did this probably on porpuse. As we got clues that he expects the enemy to be in the recruites, he set´s the trap by talking about their prime goal of reaching eren´s Basement, where all the answers are hidden. Thus forcing the enemy more ore less to join the survey corp. But he knows that there is a bloody way ahead, so he delibertly scares the recruites away. Mainly to thin out the pool of possible suspects, but secondly also to save lives. The 53th expedition also played hugely into who those traitors are. As Erwin knows, Eren is probably some sort of target. So his Position inside the Formation is missleadingly coverd. And different groups of people have different information as of where Eren is. So based on where the enemy strikes first, you can work back to who was given that false info.
ricardo böckmann
2024-11-25 10:27:47 +0000 UTCThat makes total sense! I agree - it's awesome that we have different options to enjoy for those who don't speak the original language. It's been fun rewatching AOT along with this channel in sub because it's giving me practice and I'm getting to experience the story in a different way. As I continue to watch more anime, I can see myself getting better and watching more and more in sub :)
Hannah
2024-11-24 23:35:33 +0000 UTCYes it does Also met a few of the Dub voice actors and one sub voice actor as well it gives them more appreciation listening to their work
Matthew hoholek
2024-11-24 19:06:51 +0000 UTCThat's kinda cool since it gives you a new perspective :)
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 18:41:15 +0000 UTCI mean I like both I always watch in both which means yes I watch the anime twice
Matthew hoholek
2024-11-24 18:37:52 +0000 UTCThe shows are directed with the Japanese VA in mind. The music and audio engineering are designed to the OG voices.
Donovan Brown
2024-11-24 18:34:33 +0000 UTCSorry in advance for the TLDR XD I pretty much always prefer subs, but there's a lot of reasons for that. For one, I have a disability that effects my information processing, and seeing the words being said in text REALLY helps with me not missing important details (which is why I watch with subtitles regardless of the content). Secondarily though, I took Japanese as my college language and so I love being able to pick up new words by hearing them and seeing the translation (and picking up when the English translation is way the F off). Thirdly is that I prefer to engage with all media in the original language first. That's the language the authors think in, and I guess... it feels more authentic to how they heard it in their heads and I want to experience that first. Fourthly is translation issues. I've seen series where characters get their motivations and moral stances entirely changed by the English translators modifying important phrases to fit them with the mouth movements (or they just missed the cultural context of the phrase in Japanese). Another example is that the translators are sometimes translating each episode in isolation because the rest of the series isn't out yet. So what you run into is them replacing a phrase with a more common English phrase without realizing that the way that gets called back to later in the series gets broken. (All of these can still happen with the subtitle translations too which is frustrating, it's just less prevalent than the audio because they aren't trying to match the mouth movements). Finally, if you have a reaction channel it really behooves you to watch with subtitles regardless of the audio because you may have to mute portions of the audio, or hide parts of the video, and the subtitles give the viewer context of what exact moment you're responding to.
Anna Kyruin
2024-11-24 17:48:29 +0000 UTCYeah, I've been seeing subs for most of my life. My native language is not English, and the population using my language is very small, so dubbing is not really ever considered (just the children's shows are dubbed). I've grown used to reading subtitles while watching something, and most of the time I don't even realise that I'm reading subtitles. It's not something I do consciously. This is especially annoying in theatres, where there are subtitles in two languages, because we're bilingual country and have to consider both official languages. So sometimes in theatres I subconsciously read both lines and get confused with the scene. So I can understand that if someone is not used to subtitles, it can be difficult to focus on both the subtitles and on the images on the screen. And that's fine, that's the beauty of having alternative options.
Hezer
2024-11-24 17:44:24 +0000 UTCSub historically has had better VA because anime was naturally more popular where it originated and thus had better talent doing the VA. I think it still holds true today, but dubs have become far better than they were especially for the popular shows. I still think AOT is a Sub-show, FMAB is a Dub-show. Death note can go either way. It varies. I will always humor a sub but I will turn off a dub if its not the right show.
Sevenpsych
2024-11-24 17:28:22 +0000 UTCI don’t really care how others watch anime in regards to sub/dub as long as they can understand the story. But I understand that the voice acting in sub is objectively better than dub. Personally, I’m newer to watching anime and while I’ve mostly watched stuff in dub, I also have watched in sub a few times too. For me, I found myself just reading the words and missing a lot of the animation/art moments (which is my favorite part about anime) so I mostly watch in dub now even though I know the voice acting may not be elite but it’s good enough for me to enjoy and not take me out of the story or experience. I will say that Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood has one of the best dubs too and is worth watching. Sometimes it might be worth conducting a poll on patreon/YouTube of how to watch it because depending on the anime, once in a while dub might actually be preferred by the community. But, like others have said, it’s up to you to figure out how you best enjoy the story!
Hannah
2024-11-24 16:10:54 +0000 UTCPersonally, I prefer sub for most anime, with the exeption of Attack on Titan and Death Note. But I think it's just a matter of opinion.
ProudWararar
2024-11-24 16:03:22 +0000 UTCthere's also now a really weird bubble of antiwoke grifters who think translators are evil and want them replaced with ai but I just hope that bubble is small and loud and not taken very seriously
HAL
2024-11-24 15:57:12 +0000 UTCI like dub and sub. Don’t see why there needs to be an argument about it
Drai
2024-11-24 15:47:45 +0000 UTCYou hit the nail on the head as to it being a personal preference but thank you for your insight as to why you personally prefer DUB over sub!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 14:36:07 +0000 UTCYeah, I always try to keep in mind that it's my personal preference, but it's easy to slip into preaching that preference to others when you're otherwise emotional. There's one Japanese voice actor that is highly regarded, but in most of the cases I've heard that voice actor, it made me feel like they're just messing around and playing with their voice. Code Geass is a series that really made me despise this voice actor. 🤣🤣 And I have rarely seen anyone criticize that performance, so I feel like I've somehow always misunderstood the character as the voice does not fit for it at all for me.
Hezer
2024-11-24 13:33:12 +0000 UTCThere's a bit to unload about this subject, Ill try to add some general info and then give my take: 1. Most anime viewers are not native Enlgish speakers so watching the dub isn't necessarily their preferred choice because then they will still have to turn subs if listening to English is a bit harder for them. 2. Japanese voice acting is a much bigger and more professional thing compared to the West, voice acting is a proper profession in Japan with proper training compared to the west where most of the time dubbing is a side-gig for actors. 3. Dubbing can get a lot of impact get lost in translation and cause of that foreshadowing or delivery can be missed (A lot of anime JP voice acting gets overseen or gets feedback from the original manga creator in opposed to the dubbing). 4. In the past a lot less anime was getting dubbing and therefore most long time fans of anime have been used to listening to Japanese voices so that can add to fans' reluctance to watching dub. Now for my take, I personally like subs more, mostly because I'd always want to watch any type of media in its original form with the least amount of outside interpolation, most of the points above also add to why I like sub over dub. The way I see it, the strongest point for watching dub over sub is if people prefer watching in a more casual way because sometimes anime can get very dialog heavy and it can be overwhelming for some. Obviously in the end its a matter of taste and there's no objective better way to watch but I hope you can understand why people feel that strongly about it.
Mr. Potato
2024-11-24 13:08:14 +0000 UTCIt's funny that you'd think it's a fan translation when there's grammatical errors. As someone who started watching anime in early 2000s, the fansubs were the only source of translations. Many of the fansubs went above and beyond with their work, commonly including translator notes to explain the culture, language and differences to western viewer. For example it was common to see translator notes for first few times the characters used Japanese suffixes after name (-san, -chan, -kun, -sama, -sensei) explaining the meaning of those suffixes. And many times rather than replacing a Japanese saying with an English counterpart (sometimes there's nothing equivalent), they explained in translator notes what that saying means and why it's used in this scene. When "official" translations first came, the quality was abysmal, it didn't take into account the cultural differences. Like, -san was very often translated to "Mr./Ms.", which is technically correct, but when speaking to someone it's rare to see that used all the time, where in Japanese you use the suffix every time when saying their name, it's a sign of respect. Usually in English you just use the name. Official subs have been improving to a point that the only thing I miss from old times is the TL notes.
Hezer
2024-11-24 13:05:35 +0000 UTCFunny thing, most of what is accessible regarding anime subs here in Russia are fan-made translations, and there usually is a variety to choose from, and they're almost always... really not bad at all, no grammar issues, and persistance is on top (like, there are no cases when some 'power', device or any fenomenon is called one word in the beginning, and a different word in the next season). But that might not be the case for the Western web, so don't take it as an advice to dive into these, haha
screeptoneet
2024-11-24 12:52:33 +0000 UTCYeah i feel you. I noticed quite a few times with different reactors that the subs they had were different than the ones i had for the same shows. And some are really badly translated which does affect the delivery of the story overall.
Evil Terrorr
2024-11-24 12:40:13 +0000 UTCI had planned to drop it but then I found myself wanting to watch more so I'm still not any further than Ep 6 but intend to watch more this week!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:40:06 +0000 UTCFor sure! It definitely seems to be anime specific that some have good dubs and some not so much! I really enjoy the SUB for AOT. Didn't much like the DUB but with Death Note I think it holds up extremely well!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:39:26 +0000 UTCI did really enjoy the sub but the red flags were glaring with the grammatical errors on the subs that I kinda was like "is this legit or a fan translation?" so I was worried I might miss stuff with Death Note haha!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:37:38 +0000 UTCThe indication for me was the large grammatical errors. If I was watching on a legitimate source then I'd be more inclined to believe it was accurate and persist but yeah I know there's been fan translations so I was a bit like "hm dunno this seems like a red flag!"
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:35:56 +0000 UTC100% agree. There's definitely some top-tier cast lurking in there, though. :D
Driahva
2024-11-24 12:35:51 +0000 UTCThank you lovely and yes passionate is definitely the right word haha!! 💕
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:35:19 +0000 UTCI really liked Death Note's especially Ryuk!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:35:01 +0000 UTCOHH interesting. I did watch a bit of the DUB and I just couldn't get into it as much. It wasn't awful but I really wanted to slap Eren a lot because he sounded so whiny haha!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:34:42 +0000 UTCBut the difference is Hezer is that you are aware that it's your personal preference so you aren't part of the problem at all. Being part of the problem would be shouting at people for how they consume the media! You actually engage critical thinking skills :P
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:34:07 +0000 UTCno idea hwy its so controversial I can see poitns for either side and it kidna dependso n the anime which one I prefer and htere are specific dubs where I'd very strongly recommend watching the sub instead but the controversy seems to be 99% exaggerated/edgy internet humor about how everyone who disagrees with you sucks I would DEFINITELY recommend the sub in AOT because there's a LOT of callbacks and foreshadowing and subtle ambiguities that get lost in the dub translation, voice acting is a bit of a matter of taste I guess but if a character says an ambiguous/cotnext dependent line and then a few seasons later we hear the same line in a different context and are supposed to realize that holy shit it is the same line but the dub translation translated it so that the smae line makes no sense in the later ocntext... or simialr problems... that kinda takes away from the story most other modern anime have pretty good dubs honestly, so does AOT its just a VERY difficult to translate work there's a few old animes that were aimed at older teens or adults but were imported to the US under the assumption that "its a cartoon so its for children" and thus got heavily censored/modified in translation and back then the only way to watch hte actual show was to get a pirated dvd with fan subs somewhere which is where some of the sub eltiism may come from but nowadays most anime are usually translated pretty well
HAL
2024-11-24 12:33:10 +0000 UTCI would totally be part of the problem, thankfully I won't go arguing about it with others, it's just my personal preference. I don't care how others consume the content, but personally I cannot watch dub anime, it feels too cringey as often the English voice acting lacks connection with the character. Not always, I remind you, but often enough that I generally avoid dub. That creates another problem as I'm not used to hearing dubbed anime, it also every time feels a bit strange. Just have to occasionally watch some dubs to get used to it. Sometimes it's also the Japanese voice acting that's bad, but in Japan anime voice acting is hugely competitive job and you have to be good to be and stay there. There are some very good dubs, and I'd say that over the time dubs have been getting better. The ones that come to my mind are Black Lagoon, Hellsing Ultimate and also AoT. Also, for its time, Death Note had a very good dub. And if you thought Death Note lacked emotions, it way worse in general (in my opinion).
Hezer
2024-11-24 12:32:45 +0000 UTCEntirely up to the person's own tastes, I'd say. I watch a lot dubbed these days. It used to be the other way around. Dubbing is taken a lot more seriously than it used to. There are definitely some key points in AOT that I would recommend watching again dubbed after you're done with the series.
Driahva
2024-11-24 12:32:37 +0000 UTCThough I prefer sub in general some shows have a very good dub. Voice acting is just a bigger industry in Japan. Death Note is definitely a show that has a good dub. AoT is not.
Hayden Steele
2024-11-24 12:30:44 +0000 UTCOverall I think the dub on Deathnote was fine, not sure how far you are in Deathnote but there were some iffy dub moments though for me atleast.
Terry C
2024-11-24 12:30:31 +0000 UTCI mean, subs also could possibly be inaccurate, and while watching, for example, a Chinese movie with subs, I have no means to tell that they're more accurate than dub, so that's a strange argument for me to begin with, haha. And I agree that any person, reactor or not, should be in charge of how they approach watching media, and even if said reactor has a demanding fanbase, I still think that it wouldn't be right for them to bend to such "threats" at the cost of losing personal comfort. If someone dislikes - they're always welcome to leave, I suppose. Won't miss 'em.
screeptoneet
2024-11-24 12:29:40 +0000 UTCpeople are a little too passionate! haha Well, just don't forget that you can't please everyone! so just do whats good for you💕
Gina Queen
2024-11-24 12:22:52 +0000 UTCA lot of online fandoms are reeeeeeeally gatekeep-y about who’s ‘allowed’ to call themselves a fan of whatever property and it spills over into being gatekeep-y about others’ enjoyment of the property in general. Humans are tribal, we like to divide us/them even when it’s ridiculous to do so.
Erinn Daum
2024-11-24 12:20:17 +0000 UTCAbsolutely and I completely understand that it's not for everyone but OH BOY the extreme reactions I received it was as if I was holding people's family hostage and forcing them to watch the DUB haha!!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:20:12 +0000 UTCabsolutely, people shouldn't force anyone to do anything. However, if I'm being completely honest as someone who watches reactions all the time. Sometimes people watch these reactions to "share" these masterpieces with others and the voice acting that brings the characters to life really mean a lot for some watchers too. So if they didn't personally like the dub, i can see how that would kind of ruin their expectation and experience, if you know what I mean. Then again, it is your reaction so just do what feels right for you.
Gina Queen
2024-11-24 12:19:17 +0000 UTCIt’s like when the Scarlett Johannsen Ghost in the Shell came out, I had several people ask me why I happen to rated “Ghost in the Shell” so highly and I simply said “go watch the original Anime film from 1995 and you’ll see why.” The Live-Action didn’t do the original Anime any justice whatsoever but like I said, I don’t care enough it exists when I can watch the brilliant original any time I want.
Jay Mistry
2024-11-24 12:14:20 +0000 UTCWhich I completely understand! I just find it bizarre when people attempt to enforce that on others because it's such a personal preference, you know?!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:13:09 +0000 UTCI absolutely understand people having a preference but the react is the primary content so a reactor choosing to watch it in a language they understand should be the priority, especially if they are engaging with it. It's why I find it so weird that people take personal offence to the idea of someone switching away from subbed due to being unsure that the translations are correct (e.g. not watching a legitimate source).
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:12:18 +0000 UTCThat's how I felt with AOT when I listened to it DUB'd but with Death Note - I actually think the DUB is up to the standard of the SUB at least in terms of the voice acting for me. I didn't find it too jarring to switch between.
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:11:08 +0000 UTCI think you should not worry too much about which version you wat ch. It has to be enjoyable for you otherwise the reaction would suffer for it as well. People come and go. And the ones that stay are there for your reactions
Evil Terrorr
2024-11-24 12:10:56 +0000 UTCwell, some people who prefer the original are always going to prefer subbed because dub may take away the original vibe of the character/anime. it may not be a big deal to new anime watchers but people who has been watching anime for a long time knows how superior Japanese voice acting is and what it brings to the whole show. I am definitely one of those who prefers subs. Simply because the english dub just misses sometimes in terms of translation and the vibe of the character.
Gina Queen
2024-11-24 12:10:47 +0000 UTCI never looked at the whole Live Action perspective that way of it maybe encouraging people to check out the original! Actually quite a smart way to view it.
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:10:13 +0000 UTCJapanese voice acting has generally just been better. I think it's just their culture as voice acting where voice acting is treated as a highly respected profession. Japan has numerous renowned training schools dedicated to honing this craft, which raises the overall standard. Whereas in North America, voice acting isn't quite up to par. A lot of the time, voice actors are just actresses/actors doing voice overs as a side gig. When I listen to English dubovers, they often feel less believable or natural. Sometimes it sounds like the actor is trying too hard to mimic the original, which can come across as forced or artificial. Also, often, the original creator collaborates with the studio to cast voice actors, ensuring the voices match his vision for his characters. This means the voices in the original work are usually what the creator envisioned. For example, Levi's voice in the original fits his character very well, while in the English dub, he inexplicably sounds like a surfer dude for some reason.
Terry C
2024-11-24 12:10:06 +0000 UTCYeah - I can get having a preference but when it comes to watching someone react to it, it seems odd to be so angry at the reactor's choice haha!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:08:54 +0000 UTCI personally do prefer to watch subs, and I enjoy reactors watching subs the most, mostly because I am convinced that the original acting in any piece of media is almost certainly (99.9% cases) just much better, like no comparison whatsoever, overhead better. That goes for Japanese anime, and Western movies and shows also, which are mostly watched dubbed in my country, since not too many people here can understand English. I just made it a principle for myself to watch the original always, if possible, no matter the language of the original. But, that being said, I can also respect other people's preferences in how they consume content, and even if a reactor I'm watching decides to watch an anime dubbed, I wouldn't go as far as threatening to leave, despite maybe enjoying the reaction somewhat less...
screeptoneet
2024-11-24 12:08:46 +0000 UTCI get that. I couldn't emotionally connect with the AOT dub. It wasn't bad but it lacked the emotional resonance for me. With Death Note, though, I think the DUB is actually very good so it didn't bother me switching from the SUB. But thank you for your insight!!
Sophie Anders
2024-11-24 12:08:30 +0000 UTCYeah, I personally never gave a shit on the whole “sub vs dub” debate because it’s a non-thing. If people want to watch an Anime subbed, cool. If people want to watch an Anime dubbed, cool. End of the day, I’d be more interested in how people found the Anime itself. Because getting bent out of shape because people won’t or don’t do things the way I want them to, reeks of severe self-entitlement. There’s a similar thing ongoing with the Anime vs Live Action (and I don’t mean Western adaptations but Japanese ones). Do Japanese Live-Action adaptations of Anime usually end up being awful? Yes. But it doesn’t harm me in any way that it exists. If anything, it may prompt me to check out the original series the live-action was based on if I happened to be interested.
Jay Mistry
2024-11-24 12:01:52 +0000 UTCI personally think there’s a hefty chunk of elitism involved a fair amount of the time, especially these days. Way back when, anime dubs would actually NOT really dub, they’d alter - famously, a character in Sailor Moon switched from being a man to being a woman because the US distributor didn’t want to show children a man being flirty/relationships with another man, and a different pair of characters were changed to being cousins instead of the couple they actually were. My understanding is that now translations are more faithful, but the bedrock assumption is always that the dub is always horrifically wrong and bad and only with the sub do you get ‘purity’ (unless you’re ’good enough’ to understand the Japanese on its own of course) and even then there’s also a lot of gatekeeping about WHICH sub it is that you’re watching. There always seems to be that one person saying all subs except one specific fansub are horrendously translated and no one who watches any other version can POSSIBLY understand the story properly, because all the others are mistranslated. Secondarily, the belief is frequently that the acting isn’t as good in dub versions, and this one is an interesting one because it doesn’t seem (to me anyway) to actually be about acting but about certain choices required if dub voice actors to adhere to the expressions show onscreen. To me, Japanese voice acting and voice cadence sounds very different, in Japanese voice acting a lot of bigger choices are made in terms of volume and expression, and there’s a lot more rapidity of speech - hitting those exact notes sounds weird in English in a way it doesn’t in Japanese, but because of the lip-flaps onscreen and the character’s facial expressions the English actor has to hit those notes. There’s always some unnatural sound to a dub, but I think that’s just part of translating back and forth between two such disparate languages.
Erinn Daum
2024-11-24 12:01:49 +0000 UTCMe personally dislike dub because i feel like compared to sub the voice acting just isn’t on par with the Japanese voice actors. Like the delivery of the lines are way too muted and have less emotion. But there are a few shows i would say Dub is better Hellsing Ultimate to name one. Why some would threaten to unsubscribe because of it is a bit much even for my standards. But i do understand the sentiment of it. To me having to listen to Dub is way less enjoyable especially because i feel that the reactor is missing the intense emotions that comes with it. To add to this. I feel like a lot of the times certain english voice actors just don’t fit the characters in terms of how they sound. I feel like japanese voice actors really fit their characters well
Evil Terrorr
2024-11-24 11:54:57 +0000 UTC
