BOC Lore Post: On Plant Growing Formations
Added 2025-03-13 19:26:44 +0000 UTCSaw some confusion in the comments for last chapter. Speifically this one.
"Doesn't this chapter break the lore of BoC? The outer disciples being given a qi-infusion technique with the (hidden) intent of using it for cultivating plants, indicates that the concept of using your qi to enrich your surroundings is not foreign to them. Yet, all the earlier parts of BoC talks about this as if it's heresy and was only conceived of because of the isekai nature of the protagonist. Sure, you want Jin not to have just invented everything out of thin air, but the concept of willingly parting with your own qi was blasphemous to the extreme in the earlier chapters, to the point that when Bi De did it elsewhere, it was the first time in centuries, if not millenia, that the earth spirits had experienced it."
its a failure on my part if something has to be explained out of setting, but here it is.
Theres a difference between nurturing Spiritual Herbs, and what Jin ended up doing. Shou does not give his Qi to the earth. None of the disciples in the CSS are.
The outer sect is relegated to gowing the masses of herbs as a Qi training excersise, and to benifit the sect. Its a chore.
A few will wonder if theres a better way to do that, seeking knowledge, and finding more comprehensive, but more difficult formations. This does not nessisarily improve quality, but it would speed up your chore/make it easier/allow you to basically automate it.
Rou crafted a superior formation, one that was good enough it dramatically improved the quality of the herbs, because instead of just using one of the new techniques, he combined all of them, which actually took more Qi, and didn't speed anything up. But Rou was a perfectionist, and in his mind success was not producing herbs the fastest, but producing the best. If he had the best, for only a bit more expenditure, then the quality would enable him to get better prices, so he could buy more things. Time now for time later. It also fit with Shen Yu's teachings, where the goal was basically perfection.
If he only used it for his job (getting useful herbs) that would have been fine. But once he got to his farm? Instead he just pumps his Qi into everything. Instead of carefully using his Qi for descisive, maximum impact, Hes draining himself compeltely. He is fundamentally not doing cultivation because what he was doing was basically a 0 return on investment.
In the Shrouded Mountian Sect Big D specifically notes when hes forced to tend to the garden that hes not only not advancing, but he might be regressing until he learns the breath of life. In giving it all to the Earth, he wasn't going anywhere, and when other people took the herbs, it was a net loss for him.
So. When Shou uses his formation he uses the minimum amount of Qi to achive his goals of growing plants that will be useful to his cultivation, and he occasionally also grows things for his wife. His formation is crisp, clean, scientifically calcuated to give his plants their Qi requirements.... and exactly their Qi requirements. He has identified what he needs to do and does that. It is efficent. He accelerates their growth as much as he can when he can get away with it. Shou could grow like 100 harvests of rice in a week, and then the lands barren, but he has what he wanted.
Jin's formation and philosophy on the other hand is everything gets some. Those worms hes not going to eat? Qi. That rock? Qi. the dirt? Qi. The birds who steal my crops, the bugs that eat their leaves, the trees and the grass and the air? Everything gets juiced. He entends his power to everything, and so everything receives his gift.
He spends his Qi into the earth instead of finding Qi filled earth. He spends into rice instead of finding a Dragon vein to do it for him. Instead of a thousand formations to protect his investment, theres songbirds fattened on Gold Grade Rice they've stolen from his fields.
Its winter now. Shou is just assuming THIS is how he uses his Qi. If he came in spring everybody would be like "what the hells is this boy doing?!"
When you put the top grade 10K USD a pound fertilizer on the herbs that will sell for 20K a gram, everyone goes "yeah, that tracks."
When you then turn around and give that same fertilizer to sunflowers because they're pretty, everyone looks at you like you're a moron.
Its fundamentally different than the standard operation.
A little bit rambly but hopefully it got the point across.
Comments
thanks, I get to keep the joke 😊
Cranky Otter
2025-03-26 11:22:50 +0000 UTCAh yes, I am aware. That was a deliberate callback snuck into my attempt to distill Shen Yu's perspective, further driving home how this particular Path is evidently different from the norm: Even the spirit Jin is partnered with is an outlier. Shen Yu might not explicitly know about those rules, but he probably knows enough, and is savvy enough, to suspect.
ekwood
2025-03-23 12:49:01 +0000 UTCThe author expanded on this on Spacebattles; basically, it was Ge who started calling them Lowly Spiritual Herbs, to the point Shen Yu thought that was what they were actually called. He calls them that to Shu's face, and Ge finds it so funny he keeps the joke going to this day.
Old Man Henderson
2025-03-20 15:01:45 +0000 UTCThey were guidelines. There was a chapter from Tianlan's POV that describes how the rules of the Contract between her and Jin were ironclad yet the rest of them felt more like warnings and caution from a father.
Harish
2025-03-18 07:57:52 +0000 UTCThis made me think the Cultivator mindset sounds a lot like people who think they’re frustrated billionaires - who will get 6 figures in their bank account any day now.
Cranky Otter
2025-03-17 03:42:14 +0000 UTCTangent: Early on there was a joke I really enjoyed about how Shen Yu sarcastically or mockingly called the 7 Fragrance Jewel Herbs the “Lowly Spiritual Herbs” and it stuck. To the point that Jin’s generation only know them as lowly spiritual herbs, while they impress most everyone who isn’t in the CSS. I thought it sounded exactly like the kind of thing Shen Yu would have as a legacy. But it seems to have been edited out of the print/audio versions. Am I wrong about that? I miss that being canon. (I, uh, might listen to the audiobooks rather often.)
Cranky Otter
2025-03-17 03:34:00 +0000 UTCThanks, I didn’t get that from the reading but I didn’t not get it either. Jin is still using formations to do the Qi dispersal? (The style of it allowing the plants to turn to goo if done wrong)
Cranky Otter
2025-03-17 03:29:10 +0000 UTCBees! Beeeeees!
RBAWintrow
2025-03-15 22:09:38 +0000 UTCWe give to the land, and the land headbutts our face!
RBAWintrow
2025-03-15 22:08:19 +0000 UTCMy personal interpretation was that the conclusion of the argument between Shen Yu and Jin held some major significance to this topic. Specifically, his stated goal of “Making his own Heaven On Earth.” I can't help but note that there is once again some clever duality going on given that Jin and Shen Yu seem to be comprehending the reality of the situation from opposite directions. And it is Jin's starkly different sensibilities that are why he tries things that seem absurd to other cultivators. In Jin's mind, he is simply giving his all (which is a lot and growing, but that's not the important part to him) doing what he feels is right and comes naturally for him: making a home all his own and living well off the land, sustainably. The whole endeavor is humble and reasonable to his way of thinking. While not entirely ignorant of xianxia techniques and concerns, he is minimalistic in their use and in his involvement. Doing something impossible or heavens defying is the farthest possible thing from being the point--which is probably part of what vexes people so much when he keeps doing it. To Shen Yu, Jin is walking a path that very much resembles the Path of Shennong, but in a novel way. Instead of simply serving the land and eventually dying without having accomplished anything apart from maintaining the balance, he is mending a broken land (which has never been done with the Path before, to our knowledge) and beyond that has ambitions of not simply mending, but elevating the land itself to become part of heaven. Tianlan has already broken a bunch of rules (which given that she even can means they were more like guidelines anyway) so who knows? Maybe Jin will be the first cultivator to successfully cultivate the land to a higher plane of existence.
ekwood
2025-03-15 05:29:53 +0000 UTCRock-tan deserves that spritz!
J
2025-03-15 04:57:21 +0000 UTCIsn't there also still snow in the ground? Or at least in the General. A snow bunny, she is not. And it does kind of feel like stowing the General's heart for the season is kind of a ceremonial... I'd say passing of the guard, but he's pretty much it.
Often Irrelephant
2025-03-15 02:30:33 +0000 UTCHuh. I had kind of assumed Jin's method was a bit like regenerative grazing (but with chi!). And, sort of? The whole system improves, but just kind of chi-soaker hosing everything in sight was a touch less calculated than I had assumed. (And yes - I understand his chi soaking is intentional and not the norm - I just hadn't realized rock-tan also got a good spritz.)
Often Irrelephant
2025-03-15 02:20:21 +0000 UTCLike most things in life it's about the perception. The path of Shennog venerates the cycle of life, which includes death. Thus, all contractors die. I can't explain how or why Shennog teaches in a fashion that makes you wonder if he's actually teaching Jin or Meiling rather than them merely experiencing memories from Tianlan. But he IS the god of medicine and agriculture. Moreover, he isn't actually living in the present time... so it's likely some kind of Xianxia time fuckery. Regardless, cultivators seek to ascend and live forever. That they won't is immaterial. That a contractor like Jin might "ascend" and live forever in some fashion is also irrelevant because he will die. Cultivators "defy" the heavens... the path of Shennog is about acceptance. They are literally diametrically opposed, and the cultivators believe that the way to ascend and live forever is their path. Not the path of Shennog. It's amusing, but it's not about being right or wrong. It's about belief, or faith. Edit: To try and provide a clear example. When Jin and Shen Yu fought... Jin explained his goal as being "building a heaven on earth" or something to that effect. Given everything it's likely he meant, to build a wonderful home with family, friends, and the same basic idea most people on Earth think of as "Heaven on Earth." Shen Yu, assumed that Jin plans to try to literally make the Azure Hills ascend to the next world. Or maybe to ascend the entire world.
David Brewer
2025-03-15 00:41:20 +0000 UTCSir are we reading the same Xianxia bs as Shennog literally teaches from the grave who says that isn't the paths way to ascend to fulfill the cycle so ya they die following the cycle just like any regular mortal because they expect it
ItWasIDIO!!
2025-03-14 20:46:43 +0000 UTCBut by choosing the path of Shennog... you will die. Never mind that 99% of cultivators probably die before the guy following the path. Every cultivator assumes HE is the one that will ascend, live forever, and become a god. It's not about whether they actually ascend or live forever... it's the expectation that matters. The path of Shennog always ends, it must as that is also part of the cycle of the path.
David Brewer
2025-03-14 20:41:18 +0000 UTCYou cultivate the land & as the land grows so do you (cultivation?) & it is if people don't recognize it or when they do compare the thing your doing to the have only heard of in legend & who's to say it doesn't lead to the heavens most these dudes disappear & its questionable if they make it
ItWasIDIO!!
2025-03-14 13:21:52 +0000 UTCI don’t think it’s needed, but it’s always enjoyable getting more info on the world.
Idan tal
2025-03-14 13:06:45 +0000 UTCShennong isn’t a lost art, as it’s not cultivation because it’s a bonding with the world spirits in a way that contradicts cultivation in its ways and targets.. these masters are well aware of it (although bonding with a provincial spirit is apparently unheard of for them, just smaller land spirits) and they see it as a waste of cultivation talent not to aim to the heavens.
Idan tal
2025-03-14 13:00:28 +0000 UTCI think I understood what was meant. It might help to emphasise that they’re talking about the formation Rou created at the CSS to grow higher quality lowly spiritual herbs rather than what Jin does when farming rice for example. I know that since Rou and Jin fully merged CF’s been making sure Jin doesn’t speak of Rou things as if they weren’t Jin’s as well. But I think a lot of us still think of them as two different times so when Jin claims the formation as his own we don’t immediately think of things he did at CSS.
D J Meigs
2025-03-14 12:02:14 +0000 UTCI wanna see Fa'ram against the old farts in a game of Haqi
David Morrison
2025-03-14 11:26:26 +0000 UTCHeaven on earth Pay it forward etc, etc
David Morrison
2025-03-14 11:23:36 +0000 UTCThanks for the explanation, helps put everything into perspective again after a while of not rereading previous chapters
Sam a Goat
2025-03-14 08:39:03 +0000 UTCThat suggestion is quite good. It fits with the theme of BoC and can be hilarious when Shou realizes what Jin was actually referring to.
Harish
2025-03-14 07:53:29 +0000 UTCYes. Hong Yaowu is reaping a lot of benefits and even the wild life are getting better.
Harish
2025-03-14 07:51:42 +0000 UTCI also thought this was already pretty clear earlier on in the story, but I guess it's good to show the fundamental differences every once and a while. Jin's gotta highlight how he has the power to make his petunias pop! :)
Revan694
2025-03-14 07:25:46 +0000 UTCI'd guess normally people would consider the qi-richness of the land as a given, and just try to plant on top of the areas with the most qi. So, someone having a rice field close to the nexus of a dragon vein would be able to produce gold or even better grade rice. Of course, it's implied that 1: using the best qi rich soil for rice would be considered a waste, and 2: this gradually drains the area of qi (as does cultivators only taking and not giving back) and over time the areas capable of making high quality produce has decreased massively.
ENK
2025-03-14 07:15:20 +0000 UTCYou already did a good job of explaining this in book 1 and 2. I personally don't think you need to do anything other that what you were already planning. People can reread or ask on the forums if they forgot, just like they would any other series :)
My
2025-03-14 07:09:04 +0000 UTCNot anymore!
Benjamin Lawton
2025-03-14 06:42:24 +0000 UTCAre semi local hunters getting better game meat or birds from the incidental losses of Fa Ram spreading to the local ecosystem?
Brandon Cleveland
2025-03-14 05:50:04 +0000 UTCI thought it was pretty clear what was happening just from the text, but I always appreciate getting more details.
Miles Sumida
2025-03-14 04:19:10 +0000 UTCI am here to read and only to read this masterful work. Anything else irrelevant.
Baron of Awesome
2025-03-14 03:54:40 +0000 UTCAm I the only one who got the mental image of Jin dressed up like Oprah while he's giving out Chi? Everyone gets Chi!
Lonnie
2025-03-14 02:40:59 +0000 UTCJin isn't in the fields shoving all his Qi into the ground. Because it isn't spring. During Spring/Summer as he's Tilling the land he's putting all is Qi into it. Right now in winter he's not Harvest has already happened its the slow season. Just his Special plants and green house that he's been putting his Qi into with to Shou makes sense, Because there is value to a cultivator from those plants. The Wheat, Rice, and other Crops arn't of a high value because they don't really need to eat often. Sure they taste good but they're looking to progress.
Justus Saucedo
2025-03-14 01:49:21 +0000 UTCThis clarified things beautifully for me. Thank you. I would love the see this depth and thought be hinted at better in the future books. For now, this post works just fine.
Keliana Tayler
2025-03-14 01:34:07 +0000 UTCI would imagine access to a dragon vein would be rare and something heavily guarded by say a sect building on top of it or near it to claim it. It probably is over bearing and probably rapidly removes the easy to access qi without doing permanent harm to the source unlike demons that rip out everything source included leaving a dead land.
Joseph Guillory
2025-03-14 00:54:57 +0000 UTCnah i think others just didn't stop to think you've explained at least once that the way jin does things is more natural and in tune with nature plus a lost art (Shennog) this explanation does give voice to things that's in-between the lines that might have been lost tho yes thank you
ItWasIDIO!!
2025-03-14 00:52:28 +0000 UTCIm not sure what you mean by "cycle from the air itself"? Technically all cultivators do this, as they are refining/breathing in the ki in their surroundings when they meditiate or "cultivate" their ki. The difference for Jin is that he is not hoarding his qi, instead investing it in the land. I picture Jin's cultivation as like the rain cycle. He gives to the land and Tianlan, who refines it to improve the land and creatures upon it. She then supports Jin with her own qi creating a cycle. Big D has his own Daitan(personal reserve of qi) and a normal, visible ranked cultivation. He offers some of his qi as part of his daily life, but never all of it. Jin doesnt seem to have any daitan or cultivation rank, until he reaches out to Tianlan who shares her qi, resulting in a "botomless" qi that is "everywhere" because it comes from the spirit of the land they are standing on. Or am I confused?
Linkneo5
2025-03-14 00:47:32 +0000 UTCI understood where you were coming from but it's great that you took the time to make us understand the difference. It's amazing to have access to you through this app. Fan girling here. 🫶
Trish Brown
2025-03-14 00:38:26 +0000 UTCWhen did Big D learn to cycle from the air itself? I don't remember this?
Menthewarp
2025-03-14 00:25:30 +0000 UTC"Jin's formation and philosophy on the other hand is everything gets some." So, Jin is basically Oprah? You get Qi. You get Qi. Everyone gets Qi!
X4non
2025-03-14 00:03:36 +0000 UTCthankyou, this was entertaining and informative.
Guy L.
2025-03-13 23:43:41 +0000 UTCHeh, perhaps.
David Brewer
2025-03-13 23:31:14 +0000 UTC“He spends into rice instead of finding a Dragon vein to do it for him” does this mean that accessing a dragon vein is common? Or that the process is overbearing and demonstrates dominion over the land ?
Timothy Dana
2025-03-13 23:14:30 +0000 UTC“Its winter now. Shou is just assuming THIS is how he uses his Qi.” For clarity, what do you mean by THIS?
Timothy Dana
2025-03-13 23:12:45 +0000 UTCagreed!
Gopard
2025-03-13 22:01:18 +0000 UTC@RG Agreed remember the Shen Yu incident lmao??? Also I agree with @Ashehides I think considering they are not yet to the "sowing season" its the very edge of Winter and Spring so she would slowly e waking up now if the whole huge Solstice event hadn't happened. She did Empower Jin and his Disciples way beyond their realms after all that should take a stupendous amount of power!
Gopard
2025-03-13 21:59:11 +0000 UTCOr let the misunderstanding sit until spring for their next visit 😜 Or if they linger long enough for spring to hit? Don't quite know how far planting season is
jarwain
2025-03-13 21:58:05 +0000 UTCThanks for the answer (I wrote that comment). I think the quickest and most compact way of expressing this info within the chapter would be something along the line of this dialogue (written better and more naturally by you ofc, but containing essentially the same info): Shou: You use the qi-infusion formation on all of the plants here? (referring to the greenhouse) Jin: Yes, it was a bit taxing at first but then it gave so much more back. (referring to the entire farm) Shou recalls the criticism he has gotten from other elders for his "wasteful use of qi", and gives a sympathetic nod to Jin. Jin smiles in return, completely oblivious to the deep misunderstanding between them.
ENK
2025-03-13 21:39:06 +0000 UTCI know it has nothing to do with this but please add the TCG chapter note into the book, its too good
Blai Navarro
2025-03-13 21:33:53 +0000 UTCExactly and if they followed Jin method there would be a lot more ascension's
leopard eye
2025-03-13 21:28:37 +0000 UTCThis makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the expansion here. You might consider making this a postscript in the book when you publish this chapter.
ColleenR
2025-03-13 21:23:42 +0000 UTCOne, two, three, four! We want more lore! Gooooo CHICKEN!
Insertnamehereokokipressedokok
2025-03-13 21:22:29 +0000 UTCBrilliant explanation mate
Andrew Tait
2025-03-13 21:20:14 +0000 UTCThank you senior brother
Lupin2078
2025-03-13 21:06:36 +0000 UTCHonestly as soon as you list what was getting qi, I just laughed and took this as, a your cool vs everybody gets one 😂
litalmexy
2025-03-13 21:06:30 +0000 UTCAt the top of this page, just beneath the Rooster logo, click on "Membership" and then scroll down to "Quick links". There is a Discord community link there.
RBAWintrow
2025-03-13 21:05:21 +0000 UTCBut most cultivators don't worry about long term results. They care about getting what they want so they can ascend. Edit: As a note, if the cultivator in question thought the long term outcome was critical for ascension... suddenly it would matter. But only until that cultivator's ascension.
David Brewer
2025-03-13 20:58:58 +0000 UTCI appreciate the explanation. I also see how that is a bit hard to weave into the story at the moment since Shou doesn't know about Jin's path yet.
Brent
2025-03-13 20:47:57 +0000 UTCCan someone help me enter the discord im very new to the signature and forgive my english because im from Brasil
Lupin2078
2025-03-13 20:47:47 +0000 UTCI think so too, and also the ones that do read deeply into the rest of it get promoted and are then no longer outer disciples…
Kat
2025-03-13 20:42:10 +0000 UTCI’m not really surprised that she’s not interested in talking to them or getting their attention.
RG
2025-03-13 20:28:50 +0000 UTCThe solstice was a very, very big night for her, so i assume she is resting from doing so much when she was supposed to be in her deepest sleep
AsheHides
2025-03-13 20:22:00 +0000 UTCCompletely off topic, I'm a little surprised that a certain sleeping gold fused person should be awake, since winter is over, and hasn't made so much as a peep while the old monsters are visiting. Just putting that out there. Thanks for the clarification. I understood it the first time, but I can see how it could be confusing if viewed in a different way.
NameGame
2025-03-13 20:17:58 +0000 UTCLove the lore! Thank you! 😊
Kt-x
2025-03-13 20:12:36 +0000 UTCI just meant in general. Like the Path of Shennong vs typical cultivation. Also the way I interpreted the first couple books, Jin may be on a non-standard/unique version of the path of Shennong. I mentioned Big D because he seems to get the best of both worlds for no discernable reason lol.
Linkneo5
2025-03-13 20:11:48 +0000 UTCI did not have this confusion, but this was still very informative and interesting. Thank you.
Red Viking
2025-03-13 20:10:15 +0000 UTCBig D never had a problem on the farm. It’s on the other spirit’s domain on Howling Mountain that he doesn’t have the contractor cycle stuff to be given back to him. Then HM-chan teaches him to make his own cycle from the air itself
Dirk Gent Lee
2025-03-13 20:00:20 +0000 UTCGood idea. There's a lot of lore on discord and spacebattels the could use some archived publication's
leopard eye
2025-03-13 19:59:40 +0000 UTCHonestly this has been very clear for a long time, made even more so once Bi De was in the SMS.
Neuropain
2025-03-13 19:58:08 +0000 UTCHmm interesting. Does this mean that the difference between Jin's special cultivation vs say Big D's is that Big D only gives a portion of his ki to Tianlan, thus receiving her protection but keeps the majority for himself? Whereas Jin just dumps all his ki into the farm, all day every day and is only still standing because Tianlan is supporting him? I did wonder why only Jin (and maybe Meimei) are on the path of Shennong...
Linkneo5
2025-03-13 19:47:45 +0000 UTCYeah, it also comes from being Shen's protege. Perfection is not necessarily expected, but it's achievable with enough effort.
Eddy G
2025-03-13 19:44:18 +0000 UTCOooh! Very neat! Thanks for the explanation!
Guber
2025-03-13 19:44:17 +0000 UTCMakes sense, makes dollars!
stargibilet Scott
2025-03-13 19:43:53 +0000 UTCThanks, CF! Maybe later, when you edit everything for the next book, you can expand a bit on this so all the readers can see how different Jin's techniques are from the rest. Or, like Tolkien, start creating appendices of various lore chapters so those who love your stories but don't, like those of us here, read every word repeatedly and often can understand in a bit more depth, too. Just a thought, I'm not trying to make extra work for you!
Ligeia
2025-03-13 19:42:30 +0000 UTCThanks for the information. The difference is a lot more clear now.
Pixelblade
2025-03-13 19:40:48 +0000 UTCI hope the elders do show up during the spring and summer to see how Jin and co does their farming. That'd be a fun read
GreenB
2025-03-13 19:37:57 +0000 UTCOnce again, everything is connected. If you boost the entire ecosystem, then the land and everything in and on it grow in balance, thus achieving the best long-term results. There is also a difference between using the formation and just giving your Qi to the earth. Right?
leopard eye
2025-03-13 19:37:42 +0000 UTCI enjoy the fact that this shows Rou was no slouch. Not that it ever comes across that he was, but Jins ideas come across as the best most times.
Josh Meneely
2025-03-13 19:34:17 +0000 UTCI personally didn't think what Jin/Rou was doing was breaking the lore. I just thought that the Outer Disciples of the CSS were just all muscle heads that couldn't care less about actually understanding the scrolls available to them. Sure the techniques and fighting Scrolls are devoured pretty fast but the philosophy, science, math Scrolls are probably ignored. Or read lightly
WarStrider72
2025-03-13 19:32:17 +0000 UTCAppreciate the breakdown! I sorta got this from how you wrote it, but really appreciate the clarification.
Adam Boshcoff
2025-03-13 19:31:37 +0000 UTCGood explanation
Christie Shaub
2025-03-13 19:30:42 +0000 UTCThanks for the post! It’s good to have clarification
Maria Klein
2025-03-13 19:28:42 +0000 UTCOh, a lore chapter! Always great to have these.
WarStrider72
2025-03-13 19:28:03 +0000 UTC1st!
WarStrider72
2025-03-13 19:27:41 +0000 UTC