What did you like in the game and, what you didn't like?
Added 2019-09-08 07:31:35 +0000 UTCComments
All those examples are quite good sandbox games, I know almost all of them. They all have very good hint system, that is true. We have a journal, it is not perfect I know, but it will tell you when you have reached the end of some quest. When you are stuck you can always find there some instructions as to what to do next. It is not so crystal clear as the hint system in those previously mentioned games but that is by choice. Now the tech build, it would be amazing to just spend 4 months on creating all the necessary foundation and just build on top of it. Sadly, in those 4 months we would lose many patrons because you cant really appreciate something you dont see. Our situation is even more complicated because our coder has his own project that he needs to spend time on, so he is available only for a limited amount of time each month. The trade-off for this is that he is very skilled and can create even complex things like the combat system. Besides, people really want new content and not technical improvements. As an example, look at Summertime saga. That game is notorious for not having save compatibility and people complained about it for a very long time. Some time ago DC decided to "rework" two old characters, mom and sis...ehm.. *cough* landlady and roommate.. to finally allow save compatibility, the only thing left was one last character (Eric) which needed this rework and SS would finally have save compatibility. However, when DC asked patrons what should be the focus of his next update... nobody voted for Eric... nobody wanted that save compatibility over new content. And this situation repeated again and again... to this day SS doesnt have save compatibility because people want new content more than anything. So we cant just take 4 months to do all this because we would lose plenty of people and we need those people. The only option left is to make these improvements gradually with each update. Some people are understandably frustrated over starting again but they are all happy that new content was added. Once we get to the point of needing multiple saves for each girl I think we will just have a save right before you get serious with any of them and you will be able to decide for yourself which girl to pursue. In conclusion, maybe we could slightly adjust the journal or add some text directly into the game that you have reached the end of content in this version, but I wouldnt expect that direct straightforward hint system as in those other games. Also, you spent quite a lot of time on writing all these things so thank you for taking the time). It is always good to know what and how people would like to see improved.
Risael
2019-09-08 17:14:08 +0000 UTCI can kind of see that, since I know how easy misconceptions are created when conversing online. Still think that stuff like "why do you think I care about what you think" is a weird retort, after asking for input. Here are some games that use the sandbox concept and still are fun to play, even while being unfinished. Water World. Now, in this game there's this whole eat, sleep and clean mechanic, which frankly, is a chore. If that wasn't in it, it would just be a joy to play IMO. But what this game does right is, it offers you a map, of every site in the game, in this case a ship with several decks and rooms in each of them, where you not only see where all characters are, but also see some of the possible actions and MOST IMPORTANTLY, it shows you where a current quest can be continued, with a special sign on the map. So no matter where or when, you will always see where something new happens/ can happen. F.I.L.F. also has a good overview map, where you see where everybody is at the time and the events build on each other. What isn't done so well is that the maps of the respective houses are a chore to navigate. Just too much clicking. Personal Trainer is another example. As is Betrayed. What all these games have in common is that they have a well-working hint system and a central map that gives you fast access to all places and so makes it easy to find new content. They basically tell you either the place, the character or the time when the next event happens, or all of the above. The hint systems are also done in a way that you know when there is no new content available either with a specific character or a quest or no new content available at all any more And it's also easy to pass time in most of them, just by pressing one button, even though some of them make the mistake that you can ONLY pass time on the central map. None of these games are perfect, but when they update, I don't have to search and search for new stuff and they don't needlessly make a chore out of moving on the map, finding characters, finding events, raising stats, grind money... it's all there but not to an extent that completely frustrates you, as many other sandbox games in development do. Now, most of these games manage safe-compatibility, but I do understand the point that when you introduce new mechanics, it breaks the saves. It is sometimes unavoidable, but I've seen several games that really, really lost a lot of drive and momentum due to that, as more and more people grew frustrated over having to restart each update, especially when the game involved a lot of grinding to get to content. As I pointed out, I respect and perfectly understand, the need to do your game the way you want it to, I wouldn't respect a dev who would change everything just because people/patrons are asking for that, in this vein, please understand that this is just a question I've wondered about, several times with other games and now with this one as well. Wouldn't it make sense, to make a tech-build, implementing ALL of the features you want in a game and once you have those fundamental things in place, you can then just make upgrades introducing new content, which wouldn't break saves? Dev saves are a good way, to work around this, I think, but the more girls are introduced, the more variables are there. Some players want to pursue all women, some only 1, some those 2-3, some those other 2-3 women. That could become a problem, as none of you probably wants to have to create a dozen saves or so. :-)
Walter L.
2019-09-08 16:03:44 +0000 UTCHi Walter, I think a lot of miscommunication happened here and it resulted in this mess. First of all, this whole language thing. Another guy responded to Novel in your comment section and he did it in Russian, which is something nobody can really affect. Novel responded to him also in Russian since it's his language. It would be rude to ignore him so there really wasnt any good option out of this. Dont take it too personally, nobody meant anything bad by it. Now to the whole defensive stance, this is mostly Google's fault because sometimes the translation can sound little bit different than what the author intended. I can assure you Novel didnt mean to sound rude or offensive. He just has his style of responding and sometimes google adds more "power" to it than it should have). Now, you said that there are a few devs who can make a good sandbox game while still developing it, maybe you can name some examples? Somebody we might look at to understand how to possibly do things differently, maybe more enjoyable for the players? The save compatibility.. yeah that is going to be a problem in the next few versions. I believe most devs do not change already implemented content which is why they can have save compatibility even in sandbox games. Unfortunately for us, we add things like "auto-combat" in this update.. that needs a fresh save. We also expand the already implemented content and that causes problem for saves as well. We try to help the players by providing our saves but we can't really have save compatibility right now. Sorry for that. Thank you for your feedback and even if it was with slight complications it is still greatly appreciated.
Risael
2019-09-08 15:20:25 +0000 UTCTo the Novel comment, under your comment, I replied in Russian, since it had nothing to do with you, I see nothing respectful in this. It’s just that Patreon’s site is not well suited for communication, sorry that it happened.
Agrik
2019-09-08 14:47:38 +0000 UTCSince I do not understand the problem, I will stop this dialogue. You will answer Risael if you want. Maybe it's lost in translation.
Novel
2019-09-08 14:39:39 +0000 UTCWhere do you see the rudeness in my words? I communicate with you quite calmly.
Novel
2019-09-08 14:33:29 +0000 UTCI really have no idea what this is about. You ask a question about your game, about the last update, which I as a patron played. I give you a reply. I thought you might care what I have to say BECAUSE YOU ASKED FOR FRIGGING INPUT! That is what this whole post of yours is about. As for the language thing. You posted in English, a question to which I replied in English, then you and another guy have a conversation in another language in the comments to my reply. And like I pointed out already, this is impolite, because I'm left out of the loop in the comments to my own post. I've liked your games for a long time, I respect you as a creator and I perfectly understand the need to do games the way you want to create them, but giving you input after you asked for it is not an attack on you, so to be frank, I don't understand the reasoning behind being so defensive, when it's not called for and being needlessly aggressive and rude. Doing your own thing how you want to do it, doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it.
Walter L.
2019-09-08 14:29:37 +0000 UTCI might disagree with you. Because I am a Russian, and you communicate with me in English:) That is, it is normal that I have to communicate in a foreign language for me. Right? Well, it just so happens that a man got into our conversation. I not became him to do what the remarks, that he should write separately. I just didn't think it would offend you so much.
Novel
2019-09-08 14:12:00 +0000 UTCWhat makes you think I care what you say? I am explaining my position . Is that bad? It's a discussion. Do not forget that I am Russian-speaking, and Google translation may not be accurate.
Novel
2019-09-08 14:07:26 +0000 UTCAnd also it is incredible impolite to reply to my comment in a language I do not understand and then have a whole conversation in it.
Walter L.
2019-09-08 14:05:30 +0000 UTCDude, you are always way too defensive in your replies. No one accused you of anything. I just answered your question to the best of my abilities. If you don't want criticism, why ask for it? And the point about me liking games doesn't mean they are good, what even is the point of that? I'm talking about technical matters, about how you keep games fun to play, despite them being unfinished and built on in continuing updates. How you help people find content that they otherwise have to needlessly search for. That's not about whether I like a game or not, it is about whether a game has the right mechanics. You wrote yourself, that you know many people will be dissatisfied and you will lose money and it's great if you are okay with that, but why get all up in arms, when someone just mentions that there are games which found ways to deal with exactly the stuff that will leave people unsatisfied?
Walter L.
2019-09-08 14:04:18 +0000 UTCС чего вы решили что я обиделся?) Проблема в том, что вы не единственный кто делает выводы не имея всей информации. Меня не обиды на вас волнуют, а то, что решение которое было сделано во благо, отпугнуло определенный процент людей (сомневаюсь, что вы единственный). Вот что для меня важно. И это общая проблема. И вам тоже никто ничего дурного не сказал. Я сказал, что вы делаете выводы не имея информации и таки разве я не прав?:) И да, я спросил, что "вам" не нравится, но проблема в том, что вам не нравится, то чего в проекте нет.... И по той же схеме, некоторые комментаторы пишут. Я встречаю немало рецензий, такого же плана. Люди где-то, что-то услышали и продолжают писать, то чего нет.
Novel
2019-09-08 13:48:31 +0000 UTCНу, чтож вы такие эмоциональные то? Спрашиваете о недостатках, когда люди высказываются, обижаетесь. Вам ведь никто дурного слова не сказал. Игра большинству нравится, но у каждого своё мнение. Мне например геймплей в Milfy City абсолютно не нравится, а она ведь супер популярная, даже не знаю почему, но ведь icstor не переживает, из-за того, что мне его игра не зашла. Да и графика/персонажи, там куда хуже ваших. Сюжет/квесты - ужас, а народ балдеет. Может я такой тупой, х.з.
Agrik
2019-09-08 13:40:19 +0000 UTCДаже не знаю что сказать... По сути, вы делаете вывод о текущем состоянии проекта, по ранней демке, в которой как раз было ограничение. Но во первых, мы об этом предупредили, а во вторых объяснили зачем. А именно потому, что контента в демо было мало. И это как раз та ситуация, когда ты людям хочешь сделать лучше (чтобы не бегали по пустым локациям), а выхлоп против тебя выходит. Слов нет, одни эмоции:)
Novel
2019-09-08 13:19:01 +0000 UTCЯ только про геймплей, графику, конечно сравнивать не стоит. Последние версии не играл, но в первых было обидно: решил заработать денег, пошёл охотиться, пару раз поохотился, потренировался, игра закончилась. Посмотрел картинки, оказалось, что пропустил всё, пришлось 2 раза переигрывать, чтобы всё открыть - печально. А так: сюжет и графика шикарны.
Agrik
2019-09-08 13:11:54 +0000 UTCОтносительно игры... Нет, я не графодрочер, но игры с такой графикой меня пугают. Я лучше посмотрю на модели второй серии в дазе, чем эти. Надеюсь никого не обидел. просто обозначил свое отношение к этому графическому оформлению.
Novel
2019-09-08 12:46:04 +0000 UTCВ смысле? У нас то же игра не кончается:) Можете сколько угодно проходить. И квесты... Да, некоторые эвенты чисто теоретически можно пропустить. Но это отыгрыш. Но во первых их немного, а во вторых это закон жанра.
Novel
2019-09-08 12:43:14 +0000 UTCПосмотрите Breeding Island, главное отличие от вашей игры - игра не кончается, пока не пройдены все квесты. У вас же, идёт время и закончив игровой день, можно пропустить всё, например решив потренироваться, пообедать и т.д.
Agrik
2019-09-08 12:36:02 +0000 UTCAnd you need to understand one thing. We'd rather stop making games altogether than not do it the way we want. We are independent indie developers. And this independence is more expensive for us than money. The process of creating a game should be fun.
Novel
2019-09-08 12:33:37 +0000 UTCI rarely watch what other developers do. I'm not interested. It may sound rude, but most of the games in our field are frankly bad. Including my:) I can't bring myself to play them. It's enough for me to have to play my games, but I do it for money:) The game was originally claimed as a story-oriented sandbox. We never hide our plans. Accordingly, we cannot be accused of cheating. You like games from other authors doesn't mean they're good. You just like them personally. You can name those from whom you think I should learn. And if I don't know about the existence of this project, I will familiarize myself with it.
Novel
2019-09-08 12:22:13 +0000 UTCI like the renders, the women and the writing. What I don't like and will probably never like are sandbox games in the making. All the stuff that's there but doesn't have content, the grinding, the endless replays, because you devs never manage not to break saves. All this makes a game that I would otherwise like, just a so-so game. You've already written that you know many people will be dissatisfied with this, but you decided to go that road anyway, which is of course your decision to make. However, there are a few devs who manage to make their sandbox games fun to play, even while they are still in development and I would advise you to take your cues from them. Making it very clear where people can find content is important and for god's sake be careful with the grinding. Allegedly there are some people who enjoy it, but most of us just find it tedious.
Walter L.
2019-09-08 12:15:37 +0000 UTCWe understand that there will be a lot of dissatisfied and we will lose money, but it is an informed decision. We want to make a very good game. The temporary solution is to use developer saves. In this version, I did not go very much, because some of the content is added to the beginning. Depending on the situation, I will pass the game for as long as it is convenient for you to get acquainted with the content.
Novel
2019-09-08 11:19:14 +0000 UTCIndeed I trust you’re striking the balance as best as you can :D
Moon
2019-09-08 11:07:04 +0000 UTCWe know how to do so that did not break the save. But then we will make a bad game with empty worlds at first. We don't want that. First you need to fill the world with content. At the moment, pumping is meaningless. Because there is no content for high levels. Therefore, all the content is added mainly to the beginning. You can quickly get acquainted with it. When the world is full we will strive to maintain compatibility whenever possible. But in the case of the sandbox is not so easy to do, because it is not a novel, and the structure itself is much more complicated.
Novel
2019-09-08 08:18:59 +0000 UTCplease also consider making saves comparable if possible I think it’s so very important in RPG to reset character levels with each update is discouraging given the need to re-level up..
Moon
2019-09-08 08:08:21 +0000 UTC
