Nisemonogatari Episode 7 Reaction
Added 2025-04-28 21:25:43 +0000 UTCWow Kaiki really did.... follow up with his promises.
Comments
Karen is fake in the sense that she calls herself a hero, and Araragi would never call himself a hero. It’s about how they perceive themselves. Their actions are similar, but the lens they see these events through are different.
Nathan Elkin
2025-05-08 16:39:06 +0000 UTCKaiki doesn’t believe in the supernatural in the sense he doesn’t place faith in it. He objectively acknowledges the supernatural without any emotions, and he believes that if you don’t have faith in the supernatural, then the supernatural has no power over you, or in other words, you won’t be forced to deal with it because you aren’t actively inviting such things into your life. He chooses to use his knowledge of such things without relying on said knowledge, which in turn leaves him the option to ignore it altogether and pivot to other strategies, skills, and knowledge that has nothing to do with the supernatural. For someone like Araragi, he faces oddities on their terms, using their rules, and solving such problems with the tools that the supernatural subscribe to, but for Kaiki, the supernatural is one option out of many choices that can be made. For example, Hachikuji would have never affected Kaiki because he would have instinctively left her without needing to know leaving her was the solution. He’s my favorite character in this show, right above Hachikuji, Meme, and Shinobu. When I was younger, all I wanted was to be like Meme, but I ended up becoming more like Kaiki.
Nathan Elkin
2025-05-08 16:27:06 +0000 UTCKaiki best girl
Nathan Elkin
2025-05-08 16:09:10 +0000 UTCThe reason they're 'fakes' but 'realer than the real thing' is always super esoterically abstract in concept, but as succient as you can get about it. NisiOisiN is one of the greatest writers of our time, hands down, no competition. Like, the way he showcases that concept and tests it in this story is so thoroughly deep yet comical and light hearted. The fire sisters are 'fake' Heroes of Justice (Embodiments of Justice if you ask them) because a 'True' Hero of Justice *would* have the power and knowledge to win the battle every time. But since, in our lives, around us, we know *nobody* who even comes close to that definition, the rearest candidate are those *trying* to be 'real', those who realize that they're not 'Real' heroes but attempt to perform heroic deeds anyways since no one else around them will. On the flip side, Kaiki Deishu is as fake as you can get. An embodiment of downplaying one's self into an existence of falshoods and rationality. If the Fire Sisters are *fake* Heroes of Justice, then Kaiki Deishu is a *true* 'Fake' villain. A villain who knows they don't come anywhere close to the defintion of 'Villain' or 'Evil', but never makes an attempt to claim otherwise. He's content living as a incompetent villain, a pathetic middle aged man, and a no good human being. His goals are never to hurt anyone, but he doesn't mind too much if they do, where as a 'true' villain would try and maximize the amount of people they hurt while not even caring about material goods. That's why Araragi is powerless against him, as Senjougahara quiped. That his convictions and words fall on deaf ears when the enemy is someone who doesn't care about being evil or being a better person. Anyways, I ship Kaiki x Senjou every single day of the week. God what I'd give to see more of their interactions!
Skeletan
2025-05-05 16:41:42 +0000 UTCTo be honest, pretty much every question that you've talked about or posed in this conversation is spoiler heavy, so just make sure to tread carefully. Luckily it looks like this is a good Patreon. These are themes that tie into the whole season. Kaiki's words from Araragi, fake vs real, accepting the role, justice etc etc. You might not get direct answers to things, you might not get any answers, but the entirety of the series is meant to make you consider the themes it lays out and how they can be applied to situations/perspectives. Like, I'm sure Karen took the fact that her brother was calling the Fire Sisters fake as an insult initially and wasn't accepting of it. In this episode we sort of see a boiling point for that, where it's clear Karen is attempting to dole out justice as it's meant to her - to confront evil and stomp it out. But her brother is in the way of that, does that make him an enemy of evil? Where does my brother stand? I'm sure that that's the gist of what's going on in her head, she is the one that is having a struggle which is why she resorts to her preferred method of confrontation - a fight. "The good guys always win", and here she can't defeat her brother's resolve. I'm sure that this has been pointed out before, but since you noticed it in the dialogue with Karen.. 化物 (bakemono) - Monster 傷 (kizu) - wound/Scar 偽物 (nisemono) - Imposter 物語 (monogatari) - story/tale So basically, to say __物語 (__monogatari) is to say thing-story or thing-tale. You can put anything at the front really. 化物語 - Bakemonogatari - Monster & story mashed together (monstory) 傷物語 - Kizumonogatari - Scar story 偽物語 - Nisemonogatari - Imposter & story mashed together (impostory) They don't always work into each other as well in English as Nise and Bake, but generally speaking this is how all of the book names work.
Oshi
2025-04-29 05:49:08 +0000 UTCYou guys are definitely on point, noticing both Karen's genuine passion/desire and Araragi's lecture as seemingly hypocritical. I think the subtlety that could connect all your thoughts is how something is defined as "fake." I think this arc is specifically referencing three interpretations of what it means to be a fake. The first two are simple and associated with Kaiki. The first is the qualifications society attaches to be labeled as legitimate. For example, a doctor must graduate from a medical school and obtain a doctor of medicine degree. In this analogy, Kaiki doesn't have this. However, that doesn't mean he is any less capable than a legitimate doctor. He could be more knowledgeable and skilled toward helping treat ailments regardless of his official qualifications or intentions. The second reason Kaiki is a fake is his deceitful nature. He purposefully portrays an image/does actions he knows will be interpreted by others a certain way, but does not match his true intent. The last interpretation of what it means to be a fake is more philosophical and rooted in unraveling definitions of words/ideas. As a baseline, we assume (the majority of) society's constructs. For example, a super hero or someone that is the ideal personification of justice is defined as someone who would eradicate evil and save others from it PURELY due to their existence, seeking no reason or incentive from others. However, in reality, this is literally impossible. Even when you help someone or love someone, you do it because you WANT to. Even if you don't fully enjoy it, you are getting SOMETHING out of it in return. Araragi is telling Karen she has no true conviction against evil because her motives are derived from the selfish desire to help others. It's ironic, since Araragi is exactly the same. He calls her a fake and "hates" her, but is proud of her. He's essentially saying this to himself too. The only difference between the two is that he has self awareness of this while Karen is deluding herself. It's impossible to live up to the "true" ideal of a hero in reality, since actions performed by people are based on self motives no matter how deep you try to dig. I think this is what Kaiki means when he says there is no "truth" in this world. This will be explored more later in a very cool way! I can't wait for next episode, I'm sure it will be a truly special experience...
Russell Gambardella
2025-04-29 01:24:45 +0000 UTC"Why does this feel so hypocritical coming from his [Araragi's] mouth?" ~ Nesa during the Karen fight. Araragi knows exactly how to criticize Karen for her actions, because she represents his "immature" desire for justice. Hanekawa calls Araragi out on this earlier in this arc. When Araragi asks, "you think they [his sisters] bother me?" she responds with "I think you bother yourself". Araragi uses a lot of characters in this story to represent his struggles, doubts and insecurities. It's easier to be critical of others, than to take a look at yourself.
Gromzi
2025-04-29 00:58:18 +0000 UTCAraragi calling Tsukihi and Karen "fakes/imposters" doesn't necessarily mean he's implying that they are hypocritical. He's just pointing out that they are acting towards an ideal of a "hero" that doesn't exist in reality, but because they are so focused on their game and pretending to be allies of justice in actuality they are closer to being true superheroes than anyone else. In an abstract example let's say a a child has a dream of becoming an astronaut and he fastidiously learns everything he can about rockets and space and real astronauts. If he gets to the point that he knows more about astronauts than anyone else around him, doesn't that technically make him closest to becoming a real astronaut? I think that's the kind of philosophical idea that Araragi is talking about in this episode. Tsukihi and Karen are still just kids. They aren't law enforcement officers. They aren't firefighters. They aren't counselors. But they still try their hardest to do what they can to help those in trouble and their hearts are in the right place, so who's to say they won't be something great in the future? This arc plays with MANY different interpretations of the meaning of the words of "fake" or "imposter". Each key character has their own unique connection to this theme.
Jaron Clark
2025-04-28 23:48:50 +0000 UTCOmg, now that we look back at it, her actions make way more sense!!
Vanesa Georgieva
2025-04-28 23:14:02 +0000 UTCThe experience Senjougahara had with Kaiki made her cautious about the reason someone might help her. She got the self-awareness to realize she would fall in love with whoever would help her but still understood that acting on those feelings could be bad. This is why back in Bakemonogatari she was subtly probing Araragi's motives for helping her. She was testing him to see if he had any ulterior motives. For example, she changed in front of him, flaunting her body to test if his motive was perhaps her body, but it was not. Then, at their meeting at the beginning of the Hachikuji arc, she tried to see if perhaps he helped her in order to make her indebted to him, but he ultimately refused anything, saying buying him a drink would be enough. Note how she comments at that point she now sees him as unselfish and a man of caliber. The final point of her realizing Araragi was someone worthy of her falling in love with is when she finds out the truth about him helping Hachikuji. He never helped her for any ulterior motive, he would help anyone who needed help. With this, she is confident in his nature and is someone who is worthy of her falling in love with, which is why she then immediately confesses.
Potter889
2025-04-28 22:29:53 +0000 UTC
