PATRON EXCLUSIVE: GOOD OMENS 2 - How to Subvert Queerbaiting
Added 2023-07-31 13:00:09 +0000 UTCI watched Good Omens 2 this weekend and it was one of the best, most joyous queer shows I have ever seen in my life and while I didn't want to write a video essay on it considering the ongoing Hollywood strikes; I figured I could talk about it with all of you here on Patreon, so here's a kind of bonus off-the-cuff video essay about Good Omens 2. It kind of builds off my video on Spiderverse and Nimona in a cool way! And let me know if you like this style of Patreon-only content, as I may do more of it in future if y'all are down for it.
Also quick update, I'm meeting with Dr. Erin my producer next week about IDENTITEAZE to see what we're doing going forward. But for YouTube, I have my Guardians of the Galaxy and Star Wars videos almost wrapping up. Aranock is finishing the editing for the GOTG video and then she and I are going to tackle doing the Star Wars animation and edit soon! I'm really really proud of those videos so I'm pumped. Then my next project, IDENTITEAZE-depending, for YouTube is going to Queer Liminality and a video on transgender love. So a lot comign.
Adore you all and hope you enjoy my Good Omens excitment! Allons-y!
Comments
I remember this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx3nz_GV1Fo&t=19s) where the host was talking about everything queer between Azirafal and Crowley in season 1 and how it was a shame it was only queercoded then. So, needless to say I was overwellming by this final kiss of season 2 (if Disney had done so for Frozen 2 I would have been the happiest man of earth). I hoped you will make this video on Good Omens, I'm sure it will be fantastic to watch !
POMMERA Pierre-Emmanuel
2023-09-01 18:58:10 +0000 UTCI love Good Omens, been a fan of the Book for 10 years,and loved season 1, And I absolutely love all the characters, Aziraphale and Crowley are my favorite men(sometimes) shaped beings~ I don't think that They have ever been Queerbait, (though I understand how others can come to that conclusion, since it's all subtext in the book and show until S2) since before the first season they have been confirmed to love each other, and the sequel to the book (that was never made, was said to end with them sharing a Cottage in South Downs) so with this Fandom knowledge, They have always been in a relationship-
Sealestial (Krista)
2023-08-24 03:24:21 +0000 UTCLoved the video! The only realy thing I would object to is Gabriel and Beelzebub being a heterosexual couple, because angels and demons are all canonically nonbinary in the Good Omens universe (and Beelzebub uses they/them pronouns, on top of that). Are they het passing? Sure. But they're still very much a queer couple And also, a point that I think is often overlooked is how not only did Neil Gaiman break the cycle of queerbaiting by actually paying off the subtext that was in the book and in the first season, but he's arguably working to rebuild that trust between the audience and the showrunner as storyteller that the last decade of queerbaiting has eroded (a particularly egregious example being Steven Moffat's barely concealed disdain for BBC Sherlock's most dedicated fans, which youtubers HBomberguy and Sarah Z have talked about at length). It's no coincidence that the story of Job is given so much emphasis in season 2: the season itself ends on a bitter and negative note, with Crowley and Aziraphale's kiss being so full of hurt and resentment at not being able to be together the way either of them wants to. It's basically a break-up kiss. But this is only the second act of the whole story: we, like Job, are being deprived of the thing we loved most about the show (Aziraphale and Crowley's relationship) and we're now being asked to have faith in Neil Gaiman that he will make things right again in the final act. And I do believe that he will. Both because he's hinted at it in his interactions with fans on Tumblr, and because Good Omens has always been a story about joy and hope in spite of the worst things that could ever happen to us and to the world (like a literal apocalypse)
Dandelions_and_Chestnuts
2023-08-08 18:39:40 +0000 UTCawesome!
Sthomp10
2023-08-07 03:23:52 +0000 UTCWhen you do a full breakdown I hope you have Aranok or another ace person talk about the ace-ness of the relationship as well.
Jaime Berkland
2023-08-05 16:53:19 +0000 UTCI had heard that on Tumblr Neil Gaiman stated that there are at least two canonicly non-binary characters in the show. Beezelebub and the shopkeeper's partner are both supposed to be non-binary.
Michelle K.B.
2023-08-04 00:44:03 +0000 UTCI love it but for me it needs a season 3 to conclude it as Gaiman wants to write. I would love to see Ineffable Husbands together after they both grow some more and I'd love for them to make things right with each other. Also I would love a kiss that Aziraphale instigates and is fully recipricated. I am not critiquing the writing when I say this but Crowley didn't really Aziraphale a choice when it came to that kiss which broke my heart. Amazing story telling but I don't want it to end on that note. If it does it would be too sad fr đ
Megan
2023-08-03 14:14:14 +0000 UTCHey, I loved this video and loved hearing your views on this, but I would like to point out that the character of Beelzebub is non-binary and is refered to using 'they/them' in the show and marketing.
Safekh-Aubi
2023-08-03 07:12:21 +0000 UTCGreat video. Thanks. I needed to calm down from being so angry at Aziraphale and so sad for Crowley at the end. Damn Metatron anyway for his horrible timing.
Tami Anderson
2023-08-03 07:10:38 +0000 UTCI loved this show so much that I subscribed just for this video! However it was actually, truly painful to hear you pronounce Aziraphale as Azrael. Those are two entirely different angels! In fact Aziraphale has to be the absolute polar opposite to the Archangel of Death! Side note: Azrael is apparently also a Batman character which is likely how the name incepted itself into you mind.
Mikayla Eager
2023-08-03 04:44:58 +0000 UTCI read that this season was meant to serve as a âbridgeâ between the original story and the proposed sequel Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman had planned but never wrote, so I think a season 3 isnât only expected but required
Hal
2023-08-02 23:56:18 +0000 UTCI just finished season 2 last night, loved it, and still havenât recovered from that gut punch ending, so Iâm happy to hear your very upbeat opinions on it
Hal
2023-08-02 23:55:01 +0000 UTC(Super long message incoming, sorry in advance for all the rambling. Also, English isnât my native language.) Iâm super happy about this video, Jessie, and would love for you to do more of these in the future. Iâve been following you for months? years now? on YouTube and just recently finally decided to support you on Patreon (something I actually wanted to do a long time ago already), and â boom! â hereâs a video from you about one of my most favourite pieces of media of all time. I couldnât be happier! I for one loved S1, have loved the novel for many years, and also absolutely loved S2. I actually see it as Henly in the comments: I also never in my life viewed Good Omens / the âIneffable Husbandsâ as queerbaiting. I always saw them as basically agender, male-presenting ethereal/infernal beings in love with each other who I always headcanon'd as asexual. Or rather that in general their conceptions of sexuality and gender wouldnât really be comparable to or comprehensible with ours. I always 100% saw them as in love with each other and actually never expected to see a kiss or something similar and knew they had been seen as non-binary and ace representation for years. (Maybe itâs also because I personally have a much narrower definition of/opinion on what queerbaiting actually is than lots of other people and the creatorsâ intent and how they interact with their workâs interpretations matters most to me, so I always felt in good hands with Neil Gaiman, Micheal Sheen and David Tennant). Iâd also love to say a huuuundreds other things about this season, but I especially want to talk about what you said regarding the seasonâs ending. Because Iâd just discussed similar things with my sister and then you brought them up in such a well-said, eloquent manner. Iâm glad you recently made your excellent video about, among other things, "Nimona", because watching "Good Omens 2" my mind also found so many parallels to other pieces of media I just re-watched, like "Our Flag Means Death", "Black Sails", "Nimona" and "Avatar: The Last Airbender" (the last one not really from a queer perspective, but more of a ârealizing you were brought up in a toxic system/institution/family and were indoctrinated by itâ and âseeking redemption from the wrong people (whose who actually hurt you and others, not those you have hurt)â and âgetting banned/cast away/kicked out simply because you cared and dared to question thingsâ perspective). You already made an fantastic video about "Nimona" recently and I know you made a video about "Our Flag Means Death" in the past. Now, I donât know if you know or have ever watched "Black Sails", if not, YOU MUST DO IT! I think one could make a wonderful video about comparing works like GO, OFMD, Black Sails, Nimona alone when it comes to themes like toxic intuitions and systems, wanting to reform these, wanting to have a place in them (again), but also destroying them, getting away from them; what happens when you get kicked out or find out you never belonged? Will never belong? And that wonderfully fits to the themes of queer rage and forgiveness and especially rejecting forgiveness from these systems for your so-called/perceived âsinsâ. A tumblr user called âfremulonâ put it so well when they wrote: »Crowley's hearing "I can finally make you good enough to deserve Heaven" but Aziraphale's saying "I can finally make Heaven good enough to deserve you"« I donât wanna spoiler OFMD or Black Sails here for those who havenât seen it yet, but some bigger OFMD spoilers (because Jessie has talked about it) and light spoilers for Black Sails: These two shows are about pirates who are also seen as outlaws/-casts/-siders of society and even âhostis humani generisâ(enemy of mankind). The main cast in both shows have their systems/notions/institutions they are fighting against (in a personal or organized way), in OFMD e.g. (among other things) in form of toxic masculinity and heteronormativity and in Black Sails especially in form of England and with that slavery, racism, (internalized) homo-/biphobia, exploration, sexism, classism etc. I have always seen people comparing Aziraphale to Stede and Crowley to Ed and I mean, thatâs pretty much inevitable if you know both shows, these characters and their dynamics just work wonderfully in comparison to each other. GO2âs ending also immediately reminded me of OMFD S1âs ending. When Stede is trying to go back to his old life and home, wanting to correct mistakes, but also thinking he can simply fall back in his old role as husband, father and nobleman (even tho it makes him deeply unhappy, as it did before). And not expecting that things have changed in the meantime and people didnât wait for him to show up again. He also got made to feel very guilty for "ruining" Blackbeard (who simply wants to be Ed now), ruining his family aso. Aziraphale now obviously will have more power/agency than him or at least is thinking heâll have the power to change and reform things. Correcting old mistakes. Changing the future. Iâm beyond excited to see how things will turn out in Heaven (what if heâs confronted with a disobedient angel that others want to fall? Or an angel themselves who wants to fall? How will the second coming look like? I donât think weâve ever seen humans in Heaven (as opposed to the Nazis in Hell), how are they doing?; maybe Aziraphale will sort of try to change the system in the way the demon Michael, Janet and the humans did it in the "The Good Place" asoâŠ). But just like Stede heâll probably realize pretty fast or sooner or later that people didnât wait for him to show up in Heaven again. Stede tried to settle back into the old status-quo (while his wife Mary has long moved on and made herself a much better life without him) and Aziraphale will surely find out that Heavenâs status-quo wonât be as easily changed as imagined. And that just as Crowley can have as much empathy as he has, Heaven can be just as much devoid of empathy as Hell. OFMDâs Ed and Crowley in the meantime allowed themselves to be the most vulnerable they have ever been and tried to elope with their loved one from the systems that had a hold on them for so long. For Ed this means especially the frightening and brutal Blackbeard persona heâs build himself to be over the years and for Crowley both Heaven and Hell, two places that both have been abusive to him in many ways simply because he cared. Cared for his creation, for the earth, for humanity, for Aziraphale. Places where neither he nor Aziraphale fit in. And to come to Black Sails (whose S1 btw is good, but not perfect, but then S2 is probably the best of television Iâve ever experienced in my life, and S3 & 4 are nearly as good (Iâd say S3 is almost on par with S2)): The show features so many wonderful characters and story arcs and the main themes in the show are actually: Monsters, shame, and stories/narratives â which are interwoven in almost all of them. But thereâs one storyline in particular thatâs actually about being seen as a monster, fully embracing that role, after âthe systemâ took everything from you and wanting to destroy said system. But at one point also having the hope? ability? wish? that maybe you can still change it. That you can go back to your old plans and optimism⊠(the character from this storyline reminds me a lot of both, especially Crowley but also Aziraphale). I wonât spoiler the rest, but itâs a wonderful show that mostly features people who donât fit the system (be it because of their sexuality, gender, race, class, aso.) or were cast out of it as the main cast. And it makes it very clear that apologizing, accepting a pardon (Pardons play a big role in Black Sails and the prospect of going back under Englandâs regime), asking for one can be an intolerable sacrifice. Because it makes the world think that they were in the right to hurt you. And we see that these wronged people will never themselves get an honest, true apology for how they are treated because the system (colonization, cis-heteronormativity, patriarchy, slavery, monarchy, exploration of labour etc.) benefits from it. And I see this in Black Sails, in Good Omens, in OFMD, Nimona, A:TLA, etc. Wether itâs through religious organizations, imperial and colonizing countries or authoritarian institutions. And I think there would be a wonderful essay/video in the making about forgiveness, pardons, getting that granted from these systems who see you as unforgivable (as Crowley says in S1: "I won't be forgiven. Not ever. Part of a demon's job description. Unforgivable, that's what I am."), but only if you repent for your sins, the sins they defined. Rejecting forgiveness from a system that hurt you and others and not wanting to rejoin it, realizing you cannot rejoin it, be it through Crowley, Ed, [a certain Black Sails character], or Ballister. And in Good Omens that forgiveness & rejecting that forgiveness especially hurt, because we see it coming from such a personal place of sincerity and honesty and love (âI forgive youâ âDonât botherâ), but as long as Aziraphale hasnât left the system (of Heaven) yet, he probably wonât see why it was the right decision for Crowley. To not go back to Heaven. To not become an angel again. To not want forgiveness. (On a side note, it was such a stroke of genius to start the season with them both as angels so we the audience and Aziraphale could witness how happy Crowley was with creating the Nebula, how happy he was as an angel and then end that scene with him going off to question Godâs planâŠ). And, holy shit, after Aziraphaleâs âI forgive youâ to Crowley in S1 and S2, I CANâT WAIT for S3 to (I hope to) hear these words coming from Crowley to Aziraphale (hopefully, after a long and elaborate I-was-wrong-apology-dance). When the apologizing and forgiveness can come from their own side, not the sides theyâre working for. I think this seeing this mirroring would kill me. On a completely different, last note: I really enjoy this recent increase in TV shows/general media that 1.) features more middle-aged/older queer people instead of the usual teenagers or 20s-30s-somethings (whether itâs in Good Omens, OFMD, The Last Of Us etc.) and 2.) media where the main issue isnât homophobia/transphobia/biphobia or other types of queerphobia (where sometimes all this doesnât even exist), but weâre still seeing struggles and fights that are often part of the queer experience. And that not only through subtext or queer-coding or e.g. âthe non-binary alien tropeâ, but actual and factual queer characters. Sorry for the suuuuper-long rambling, I just had SO many thoughts and nowhere to put them and I loved to hear your thoughts on this season, so I wanted to share mine and what it reminded me of. Keep the wonderful work up, have a lovely day/night (itâs here now 2 a.m.) and best of luck for "IDENTITEAZE" (really looking forward to it)!
Rebecca Moessmer
2023-08-02 23:06:03 +0000 UTCYay for more informal enthusing, it wad wonderful. I have read the the dook but not dived into the series at all (I dont care about spoilers) so this has absolutely nudged me into giving it a go. Awesome stuff
Phil Beaumont
2023-08-01 15:27:14 +0000 UTCIt was very beautiful, also the Shop keep with a Trans wife was kind of awesome. I really hope for a season 3 now. Because this story is not over for me. and yes, these small vids are fun,. but I have to wait until I see them to be spoiler proofed.
Rachel Mary Winter
2023-08-01 10:44:29 +0000 UTCOh yeah!
Sthomp10
2023-08-01 06:48:14 +0000 UTCI love this more informal style of video, breaks down that wall of authority a bit and makes me feel like Iâm part of a conversation with a friend. And good GOURD we require a season 3 to finish this arc, what a bold choice to end on the gut punch! I also appreciate the complexity where Nina & Crowley are both the distrusting hard-asses, yet I also feel like thereâs a parallel between Ninaâs abusive relationship & the abusive relationship between Heaven + Aziraphale, both believing they can stay and make it better (but where Nina eventually gets away like Crowley, Aziraphale stays in that place of idealism and perhaps denial). Itâll be really interesting to see where this goes.
Lux â€ïž
2023-08-01 06:47:01 +0000 UTCI just finished watching GO2 today and loved hearing your thoughts on it!!
Laura
2023-08-01 05:03:10 +0000 UTCReally enjoyed your take on this. I will be sure to catch it! Like this non scripted review too.
Melissa Thorpe
2023-08-01 04:16:07 +0000 UTCyes please on more of this style of Patreon-only content
Jeni
2023-08-01 00:41:53 +0000 UTC100% would love to see more of these videos! I loved Good Omens season 2, and I really hope they get another season to finish the arc! Neil Gaiman obviously saw folks on tumblr saying season 1 was queer baiting and decided to fix that in season 2, lol. Itâs so marvelously queer.
Raven Woods
2023-07-31 23:29:57 +0000 UTCexactly!!!
Henly
2023-07-31 22:16:38 +0000 UTCyes the whole season was released at once, and actually watching it now is encouraged by Mr. Gaiman
Henly
2023-07-31 22:15:56 +0000 UTCHuge fan of the book. When I pared my hardcopy books down to a half dozen for a move, "Good Omens" was one of those half-dozen. I also enjoyed this season a good bit more than Season 1 (which was good/ok, but not great). The plot (of season 2) was little more than a framework and it's pretty much just about couples and being a couple -- realizing, learning how to do it, adapting (or not) when things change. Gabriel was kind of like an unexpected child coming into their lives. Oddly fit pretty well, unplanned, with all my recent viewing -- "Deadloch", "Interview with the Vampire" (TV series season 1), and "Harley Quinn" season 4.
Scuzzbopper
2023-07-31 21:59:21 +0000 UTCFYI Beezelbub is canon non-binary so I don't believe zir relationship with Gabriel would be consider straight.
Julian
2023-07-31 21:48:19 +0000 UTCYep just because it doesn't look explicit to you doesn't mean it's not explicit to others. My ace ass who thaught it was obvious.
Julian
2023-07-31 21:40:57 +0000 UTCSighâŠlots of great stuff. But sadly the Venture Brothers Finale Movie goes unnoticed by the whole of the cultural internet. A big important thing ended, and nobody even noticed. Omens 2 was frigging good though! Amazon really knows how to keep people hooked on prime.
Mike Zaite
2023-07-31 21:31:16 +0000 UTCLiterally started supporting you on patreon (which, to be fair, Iâd been considering for awhile) in order to watch this video! Completely obsessed with this season, just completely in love with it and the millions of ways it was queer!
Karen Lawler
2023-07-31 21:12:41 +0000 UTC(Question, did they dump a whole season? I was plannining to set aside some time. I could also prolly be patient if it might in a little way help the strike.)
OliveD
2023-07-31 21:08:18 +0000 UTCYes, their pronouns are they/them/ze/zir
Henly
2023-07-31 20:34:42 +0000 UTComg they must use ze/zir pronouns, it would only make sense... bc it makes a buzzing sound đ
Henly
2023-07-31 20:32:36 +0000 UTCDidn't Beelzebub use gender-neutral pronouns in season 2?
KaiWeWi
2023-07-31 20:31:34 +0000 UTCI never saw Good Omens as queerbaiting, even in the book. Not to say what was done in s2 isn't important, but seeing as how Aziraphale and Crowley are supernatural beings and canonically nonbinary and thus don't fit into human concepts of sexuality, they've been embraced for years as a queer couple and often (at least recently) as an asexual couple. Not just embraced by fans, but also by the writers and the actors. I held Good Omens s1 close to my heart as asexual representation bc it's sooooo easy for me to read it that way. (And I mean, c'mon, the nightingale scene at the end of s1 is all but screaming they are in love.) And since it's *Neil Gaiman* at the helm, I never once felt he was queerbaiting us. And now we were explicitely proven right. (I loved s2!)
Henly
2023-07-31 20:16:44 +0000 UTCHooray I was hoping one of my fav creator would talk about this show
Cafe Equinox
2023-07-31 17:46:52 +0000 UTCI love hearing your take on all of this! I do want to mention though that Gabriel and Beelzebub aren't a straight couple, Beelzebub is non binary and uses they/them pronouns! (Neil Gaiman also suggested they use ze/zir pronouns)
Jack Tiggelman
2023-07-31 16:42:18 +0000 UTCThat season made me feel like Neil Gaiman was deliberately antagonizing me personally. He gave me what I wanted but then did it in a way that broke my heart! Like please, please I just want them to be happy together. Literally all I want.
Elena Murie
2023-07-31 13:51:48 +0000 UTCThank you for this lovely take on the season, I myself have so so many thoughts about it. I agree with many points you brought up but when it comes to Beel and Gabriel it is also interesting how they get the happy ending, running away together when they were the respective "managers" of Hell and Heaven and caused Crowley and Aziraphale so much pain (and others within the system). They got to simply step away and decide, no we don't want to actually fight and their privileged positions led them to avoid all punishments while Azi and Crowley were set to be destroyed. Sure, people reacted negatively but its not like many of them cared after but Aziraphale and Crowley were still under watch of both sides after S1. That is of course not to play down the fact that Gabriel was going to be demoted and have his memory wiped after going against orders but I think that's a different thing. It's just sad and hard to think about how much Aziraphale still believes after everything that heaven is good and all the miscommunication going on between him and Crowley... Crowley seeing the man that tried to murder his love get the ending he always wanted... it's all so much to think about! This season was so beautiful though and I'd like to hear your deeper thoughts on how Maggie and Nina parallel Aziraphale and Crowley!
Reece Suikeli
2023-07-31 13:35:59 +0000 UTCIt's nice to hear and see you be excited after your last video. <3
SierraIsBoring
2023-07-31 13:33:18 +0000 UTC
