Jumpgate #49 - Passing Through Gethsemane
Added 2023-02-21 14:00:05 +0000 UTCChucky himself, Brad Dourif, guest starts on a highly charged episode of Babylon 5... and I learn to pronounce words as the Jumpgate podcast continues.
Comments
Hahahahah I find breaking long words down into little pieces helpful, but yeah. There are some words that I knooooooow I don't pronounce correctly, but I can't seem to correct myself even though I know I'm pronouncing them incorrectly. This one just made me laugh because I have known how to pronounce the word Gethsemane since way before I knew how to spell it.
Becky Sparks
2023-03-01 06:35:29 +0000 UTChaha I'm SO BAD AT PRONUNCIATION
Jessie Earl
2023-03-01 05:15:13 +0000 UTCOMG Jessie, the pronunciation! As someone raised evangelical, I could probably have pronounced the word Gethsemane by age 4. How to pronounce: GETH (as in the Mass Effect AI) SEM (abbreviation for Scanning Electron Microscope) AN (a preposition) EEEEE (long E sound =) )
Becky Sparks
2023-02-28 04:36:26 +0000 UTCThis is, I think, my favorite (primarily) standalone episode in the entire series.
Patrick Greene
2023-02-24 00:49:39 +0000 UTCI'm just going to add that I have a lot of respect for Vera's take on religion. It is notable that she does not really discuss her beliefs in more public settings. Similarly, I know people that are quietly Christian here in the US, and in fact believe far more strongly than most high profile right wing reactionaries. And this doesn't just apply to spiritualists like Vera, but devout Christians. And they are absurdly liberal. They see right wing Christian nationalism as a perversion of Christianity, a faith originally about helping the needy and lifting up the downtrodden, a religious figure who's words fervently argue for small-c communism and social welfare and clearly condemn capitalism. But the icons and rituals of that faith were co-opted by the powerful (the Romans, originally) and twisted to serve them. I think letting the right wing nationalists have sole claim over what it means to be Christian is letting them win. We can acknowledge that loud public performative Christianity is a marker for right wing violence without condemning everyone that has private spiritual beliefs, or even just respect for those that do.
Patrick Greene
2023-02-23 16:08:17 +0000 UTCok, so you're saying, if anyone is a believer in Christianity (though I seem to recall that Vera is part of some other religious demonination) and believes that Jesus was a real person than they are automatically supporting Christian Nationalism? (BTW I am aware of the Christian Nationlism Movement in the US which tends to swap to Europe at every corner. I just don't see how it applies to Vera.) And why do you post this on Jesse's patreon page and not on Vera's?
Ulrike Bogdan
2023-02-22 08:08:10 +0000 UTCXtian Nationalism in the US is a very multi-layered topic, but it broadly refers to a reactionary movement to completely dissolve the separation of church and state, harshly restrict the rights of women, formally re-institute chattel slavery, and turn the aims of American empire from a purely capitalist endeavor into one of spreading / enforcing overtly Xtian rule to the rest of the world. This movement has been present in US politics in some form since the inception of the state. Its most vociferous advocates talk about the US as a "City on the Hill" and make repeated claims to American Exceptionalism (TM) with the understanding that adherence to specifically Xtian values is what Makes America Great (Again), and that deviance from those values leads to degeneracy and ruin. Obviously Vera isn't advocating for any of these points specifically, but what she *is* doing is endorsing the same philosophical framework that Xtian Nationalists use to justify their fascism: That Jesus was/is real, that the bible is a relevant political text, that spirituality as affirmed by a hierarchical command structure is both natural and desirable. Just like with JKR's IP, you cannot meaningfully engage with these topics without accepting the premise that they are right and necessary to exist, nor can you advocate for this brand of spirituality without accelerating the flow of funds into the coffers of the people who would return us to the feudal era. I get that in the EU, Christian Democrats are fairly ubiquitous as broad centrist-liberal continuity-of-governance parties, but in the US the presence of any Xtian figurehead or talking points invariably and inexorably draws everything around them hard to the right.
Rhiannon M
2023-02-21 21:53:44 +0000 UTCThis is interesting because for me (a German atheist) I didn't see any "Christian Nationalism soft-pedaling". Vera has her own views on religion so far it is clear to me. But christianity is only one aspect of it and only one aspect of the show. But since the protagonists are christian monks (of no specific denomination) and Brother Edmund's lynch pin IS Jesus at Gethsemane a related discussion is in the text of the show. Can you explain further how you see a Christian Nationalism by Vera?
Ulrike Bogdan
2023-02-21 19:18:34 +0000 UTCJessie, as a mild dyslexic I had such sympathy for you on this one 😂. Regarding the Lyta-Kosh stuff, though… looking at it now with both the scope of an adult and the vague memory of future events, they really do consistently set Lyta up as the kind of person that falls into cult behavior. She was my favorite character as a child, so I think I might of idealized who she was in the show as this strong heroic character, but… I don’t know that that’s all that accurate or consistent.
S G Matthews
2023-02-21 15:25:41 +0000 UTCI've learned to dread the episodes with more overtly religious themes, because it inevitably leads to a full hour of Vera Wylde's Sunday School soft-pedaling of Xtian Nationalism. It's a shame that it happened here, because there are lots of secular ways to analyze Death of Personality, the nature of identity and the tragedy of being guilty of a crime that you didn't commit. Alas, so many sci-fi and cyber-punk properties treat their more trans-humanist elements less as interesting concepts to explore in their own right and more as back-door sales pitches for Scientology or whichever other religion dujour is the author's bug bear. (E.G.: Cyberpunk 2077 ending with the protag essentially meeting AI-god and either living in cyber-heaven or going back to Earth to lead a mortal life.) Also, I flat out disagree with the consensus about the ending of this episode: It doesn't matter that the guy who kills brother Edward is a one-note maniac, because getting to know the guy isn't the point. The point is that the new person born from the DoP (brother Malcolm) is just as innocent of the previous person's crimes as brother Edward was innocent of Charles Dexter's crimes, and yet Sheridan can't help but have that gut-level instinct to treat the two men the same. The focus of this episode is on just how much it sucks to be treated as guilty for a crime that you didn't commit, yet how easy it is to pass that judgement, and how necessary it is to introspect and examine the validity of that impulse.
Rhiannon M
2023-02-21 14:57:31 +0000 UTCHeh. Gethsemane is a difficult word. I was surprised Brad Dourif's role on ST: Voyager was not mentioned in this episode. At least I didn't notice it, but I was driving at the time.
Lassi Arpalahti
2023-02-21 14:30:40 +0000 UTC
