The Antikythera Mechanism Episode 10 - Evidence Of A Lunar Calendar

What do you think about this new paper from the "Antikythera Research Team" https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-021-84310-w

Jacob Rus

I am not aware of anything in the literature similar to what you describe, although there is much we don't know from the period so I am always inclined to keep an open mind. Nevertheless, we think the simplest interpretation is that it's a lunar calendar, most likely with 354 divisions (or less likely, 360). The thing about which we do take a firm position is that which we have falsified: It is definitely not a 365 day calendar as previously believed.

Clickspring

I meant that the 5 epagomenal (aka intercalary) days could be covered by 5 (or 6 on a leap year) retrograde manual adjustments. As those days exist outside of the lunar-based calendar.

Andrew N Dowden

Hi Andrew, we determined the most likely division candidates to be 354, and then possibly 360. However the key finding of the paper is that the data do not support the previous long-held assumption of it being 365 divisions. If the calendar has 360 divisions without any intercalary days, then by definition it is not an Egyptian 'civil' calendar, since the 5 epagomenal days are a well established feature of that calendar - Cheers :)

Clickspring

I can't map the Calendar ring (holes) to 254, using my own .SVG render and overlaying both images (holes b/w, 3 months green). Is it possible there is NO 'later calendar' and the ring is "Civil calendar, with NO intercalary days" - so with 360 holes?

Andrew N Dowden

Coal.. again... :-) All the best from San Diego.

Dilapidus

That's it for this year my friend, I will catch you in 2021 :)

Clickspring

Hi Matt, I use Solidworks. Have a look also at Fusion360 - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Anyone else checking here hourly to see if Santa Chris has something for our stockings this year?

Dilapidus

Hey Chris! What do you use to make the digital 3d models of your parts? Like what you see at the 6:46 point in your Antikythera update. I was thinking about getting into 3d modeling to make parts too.

Matt

Thank you mate! Yes, my reach often exceeds grasp! All the best to you and family also for Christmas and the New Year, here's to a top notch 2021 :)

Clickspring

Cheers Drew :)

Clickspring

At present it is quite easy to advance the mechansim by a single day at a time - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Cheers Rene :)

Clickspring

Thanks mate!

Clickspring

Thank you mate!

Clickspring

Also, WOOT! Congratulations on crossing the 6,000 Patrons mark! Fair evidence that quality > quantity, IMO. I must admit, while re-watching the videos for the Byzantine Sundial Calendar series, I have to chuckle a bit when you mention getting the project wrapped up before the, "big one" (eclipse) of 2017. In my opinion, one can never fault someone for setting high expectations of themselves, even when those expectations aren't met. I mean, hell, you've probably helped to advance human understanding of how time was kept by ancient civilizations! God only knows what other possibilities or lines of thinking you'll unlock. And, to be as clear as possible, none of this comment is meant to be facetious, in any way. Anyway, apologies for rambling like that. I am genuinely thrilled that all of the hard work you put in to researching to ensure that your Youtube videos are as accurate as possible has revealed a hidden gem. Truely, I hope you have the best of luck navigating peer review, getting published, etc. Best wishes to you and yours, - Jonathan

Jonathan Crider

That seems possible and there are several ideas about the actual use of the mechanism. Based on no evidence at all, I favor the scientific/educational use. And, for sure, this isn’t the only or first one made.

Drew

There is one other thing i'm curious about practical use of the device: If i understand correctly, currently the input handle rotates the mechanisms many days for each turn - i can think of many applications (like for day-to-day use when observing planets and/or using the device similar to a modern wall calendar) where each turn of the handle would advance the display one day, preferebly with the handle resting in the bottom position so it doesn't get accidently bumped. Something like "every morning turn the handle once to see todays sky alignment". Is there any possibility that such a gearing was included in the final mechanism?

Rene Schickbauer

I have a feeling that the Antikythera mechanism (or one of it's siblings) was at least in part a showpiece for the workshop that made it. Like a fully kitted-out all-extras-included car in a showroom these days. Which leads me to think that (at least on some versions of the machine) the sidepanels could be removed very quickly to show off the complex mechanisms inside.

Rene Schickbauer

Thank you for crediting the Clickspring Patreons in the research paper!

Rene Schickbauer

Chris! Absolutely fantastic to hear you again! Your newest video induced the Engineering hype in me again and the binge bug had bitten. Have been rewatching a lot of your tooling videos and fragment videos again and all I can say is, absolutely stoked you're back and congratulations on your significant research progress!

Matthew Thomas

Excellent read, Chris! I've been looking forward to reading this paper for a long time! Congratulations.

Adam Slagle

Hello mate, yes lots more to be built - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Terrific to hear that Sean - Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year to you too :)

Clickspring

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Hello Chris, I just returned from your video being publicly unlocked on YouTube (It warms my heart to read all the wholesome comments), when I once again noticed how the CAD model had changed from the version seen in previous videos. Now I am fairly certain that you simply hid some features from the images of the model to keep the focus on the new day pointer, but just to be sure, you still intend to include planetary pointers on the front dial of the mechanism, right? I'm just wondering because those pointers to my understanding are also speculative.

Justus Dehegovit

Looks like my Christmas reading has arrived. All I can say is Patreon money well spent! :-) Seasons greetings to you Chris, and all your fine discerning Patreon supporters. Cheers

Sean Kirby

Congratulations on having this paper published and thanks for making it available without a paywall!

Christian Leichsenring

So pleased to hear that. That is Mike Edmunds, one of the researchers leading the 2006 team that conducted the CT and PTM scans at the National Museum in Greece - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Thank you Peter, I am very grateful for you support :)

Clickspring

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Cheers Tessa!

Clickspring

That is Mike Edmunds, one of the researchers leading the 2006 team that conducted the CT and PTM scans at the National Museum in Greece - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Subscribing to your patreon was the best thing happened in my 2020, btw who was that man at 6:34 😳

Matsuda Isoshi

My heart skipped a beat when I saw this in my feed a few days ago, and now I finally had the time to watch this video in full. I've been following your finding and publication as closely as you've allowed and am continually shocked at both the quality of the information presented and the sophistication of the defense provided. Though not fully understanding the paper's content, everything I do understand strikes me as being of the same quality as both the videos you are infamous for producing and the work they showcase. Thank you for keeping us involved in this process and I'm proud to be a part of this community of support.

Kaedenn

Chris, it's good to see you (proverbially speaking)! It is also good to see/hear that you plan to continue on making videos. But it is absolutely fantastic to hear that all of your research and hard work IS actually bearing fruit! And thank you, genuinely, for taking us along for the ride, so to speak; I know I'm not the only one who enjoyed learning a bit about the peer-review process. (And this is where I hit 'Enter' on my keyboard by accident, which is why this post is edited) Anyway, sorry for the rambling. Final thoughts: welcome back, my good man, as the YouTube Makers community was noticeably incomplete without your contributions. That, and we expect sweat-shop-style video production after the New Year; gotta make up for lost videos! :-) (Yes, that last part was meant as a lighthearted joke; humor is subjective, so it likely gave SOMEONE a bit of a chuckle :P )

Jonathan Crider

O my gosh! I just put the video on our Watch Later list, thinking it was another short. Then I'm quietly scrolling down my Patreon feed and I read this wonderful news! I'm so excited! I think we'll rewatch episodes 1 through 9 first, do a recap. Looking forward to tomorrow! So good to have you back!

Tessa & Maarten

Thank you Matthew :)

Clickspring

Me too mate, cheers :)

Clickspring

Ha ha! Chris is probably safest, although I've answered to much worse! Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

You're very kind Alisa, thank you :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you Tristan!

Clickspring

Awesome, so pleased Dan :)

Clickspring

Great to be back mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you Tim, so pleased you enjoyed it :)

Clickspring

Thank you Greg :)

Clickspring

Thank you Iain - I'd suggest make a start on some of the tools that you will eventually need, for example the depthing tool. You might also find that simply diving into the deep end on a clock is not a bad way to start too. It all looks a bit overwhelming at the start, but you can make a start on the bits that are friendlier to begin with, and you'll be amazed at how quickly you start to feel confident about the rest - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Cheers Francois!

Clickspring

Cheers David, so pleased you enjoyed the video :)

Clickspring

Thank you Richard :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Cheers James!

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you Thomas!

Clickspring

Thank you Thomas!

Clickspring

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Cheers Brad :)

Clickspring

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you Rob :)

Clickspring

Thank you Peter - I've not seen anything to suggest that, but its an interesting thought. Certainly there is still much to glean from the wreckage that we do have - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate, yes feels good to have it done!

Clickspring

Great to see you back.

matthew hilberts

SO glad you are back to making videos!

Gabriel Hoffman

Which title do you like best? A: Mechanical Anthropologist, B: Engineering Archaeologist or C: Chris

Luther

We don't deserve you, Chris

Alisa Amiella

Feels like I've been waiting for this update for ages... You have my utmost respect for the incredible job you've done with you research. Thank you so much for sharing this with us.

ShamWerks

Seeing a video from you made my day, then hearing the final results from the paper and that the build would resume soon made it that much better! Looking forward to whatever comes next!

Tristan Sobey

I am SO stoked this is project is back on. I can't express enough how much I enjoy it!

Dan Hargrove

How did I miss this notification? Oh my, this is a sight for sore eyes. Glad to see you back.

PeetieGonzalez

You are back, congratulations to your paper it was a good read. It is a wonderful project and a fascinating matter. And it’s inspiring what attention to detail you put into the build and the videos, both are pieces of art.

Tim Schäfer

Well Done Chris. Its amazing how much of a game changer your research is, and all because you wanted an authentic model of the mechanism.

Greg Nixon

Gday chris, firstly, glad you finally got your paper published so a big congratulations there, this is really more to do with your skeleton clock build. I’m really keen to have a go at something like the clock but that’s way above my skill level right now, what would you recommend project wise to get started in the right direction? Cheers

Iain Deas

Congratulations! And very inspirational. Thanks, Chris, and looking forward to the future videos.

Francois Harmse

Just magic Chris. I read the paper with interest when you pre-released, and the supporting video is really good.

David Paterson

Awesome news! Congrats on the paper and really looking forward to the final version of the mechanism.

Richard Thompson

Agreed, Im kind of shocked that no one over they years attempted to rebuild the mechanism. That surely was the thing that reveals the discrepancy glaringly. This is the fundamental divide between science and engineering in all its glory. It when physics runs into theory that real technological progress happens. Chris, I hope you come up with a book that documents the build and theory of operation/design along the way. This is too important to trust to the permanence of the Internet.

Steven Naslund

superb, glad to learn you are back in town. The paper is amazing, very nice job !

jean-marc

Chris - Congratulations to you and the rest of the team. It is a great thing to see science in progress!

James Korman

Nice one. One of the few good things to come from 2020. You're an inspiration 👍

Dannybuoy

Awesome. And with my favourite update yet. I tell you spinning back into history about this device just opens up a whole new world of imagination. Really intelligence and skill can not be trapped in a single generation but it can last millennia.

veritanuda

Amazing work Chris! Congrats on getting through the review process, it can be a right pain but usually makes the publication stronger. Can't wait to see where this project takes you next!

Thomas Langford

Great research Chris, you and your colleagues have done a fantastic job! Congratulations on your publication!

Thomas McGinnis

Thanks Chris, I am so glad this project is back on, I was very happy to watch the build series but seeing published research come out of this project makes it so much better!

Noah Orr

So good to have you back. 2020 isn’t a complete loss! Now I’m headed off to read your paper.

Brad Thayer

G'day Chris, great to see an update. Extremely interesting!

Derek McAllan

It's great to have you back Chris, at least 2020 won't be a total disaster, stay safe.

Rob Cameron

Welcome back. Good to see that the magnificent production values are intact. A note after reading the article: Whenever I see a row (or circle) of even graduations considered along with the idea of adjustment, the word that springs to mind is "vernier". Could there have been a series of holes, slightly differently spaced, somewhere in the missing parts of the zodiac or calendar rings?

Peter W. Meek

Top work as always Chris! Take as long as you need to acheive your usual level of perfection.

Spadge Fox

Well done mate. That sounds like a lot of work, I bet it is worth it now though.

Matt Syme

Thank you Phillip, so pleased you enjoyed it :)

Clickspring

Terrific, thank you Maurice :)

Clickspring

Thanks Graeme :)

Clickspring

Thank you Francis :)

Clickspring

So pleased mate :)

Clickspring

I'm grateful for your support Bill, thank you :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Thanks Andrew :)

Clickspring

Cheers Grant :)

Clickspring

Cheers Almir :)

Clickspring

Ha ha! Terrific Ed, so pleased :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate!

Clickspring

Ha ha! Brilliant :) Thank you mate, wishing you all the very best for 200 too.

Clickspring

Welcome back Chris. Had a read of the paper fascinating stuff

Phillip Kieran

Jokes aside, I couldn't be more happy to see you making a triumphant return to this beloved series. Have a merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and a good start into 2021, a year that undoubtly will be better than the current one.

Justus Dehegovit

"And there were in the same interwebs patreons abiding in the Discord, keeping watch over their lives in this drought of quality content. And, lo, the messenger of the highest came upon them and the light of the highest shone around them: and they were sore staggered. And the messenger said to them: G'day, Chris here and welcome back to Clickspring. Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all you people."

Justus Dehegovit

Good to hear your voice again. The first thing to do was watching the movie. Thanks for the high quality video and explanation. And now I have to go back and watch all older parts again. Maurice

Maurice Lucas

Welcome back Chris, hope your well. TFS, G :)

Graeme Brumfitt

Yes, please make a book about your journey, making, and discoveries on this project. I've bought a few academic scholar research books before and I'd be more than happy to buy another one.

Charles Dodge

Whose face is that at 6:36?

Kahl'Zun

Keep safe.

Francis Milsom

Brilliant presentation Chris. I've been enthrawld by all thge video in the series so far and this tops the lot. Really looking forward to further constructional materials in the future.

Francis Milsom

I'm super excited about this!

Spoons

There you have why I hesitate. But maybe it will help someone else from making the same error.

Ron Kellis

I feel humbled and honored to be allowed to view your work Chris...thanks so much for sharing with us!

Bill Yester

I literally whooped when I saw you had a shiny new video. This is amazing stuff. Just as amazing is that it’s been four years, already. Welcome back!

d j

Yay! Made my day. Good job, and well done. That's a piece of work!

Andrew Webster

cheers

Grant McKinna

Glad alls good and your back enjoying your work

Grant McKinna

It is an error in labeling and Chris is on it. But, for clarity, S6 has only two holes so there can't be any statistics (even a mean) on only one inter-hole distance. Likewise, S4 has only one hole. The actual section numbers in Figure 4 should be S1, S2, S3, S5, S7. -Drew Thoeni

Drew

Nice!!! Welcome back!

Almir Germano

Can’t say enough good things! I was thrilled to see this pop up. Was in line at the grocery when this popped up, couldn’t get home fast enough to watch!

Ed Popelas

Good things take time! Glad to see a new video from you, Chris, and your work is super-inspiring work as always!

LeoMakes

:)

Clickspring

Thank you mate!

Clickspring

I guess 2020 ended well.

Matthieu Germain

So very thankful for all of your support mate :)

Clickspring

I would like to do that too :)

Clickspring

So pleased mate! Yes you've identified a typo on that chart. The last two data labels should read "S5" and "S7" instead of "S4" and "S5" - I will pass it on for correction, many thanks for spotting :)

Clickspring

Thanks Luther, so pleased you enjoyed it :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate, you too :)

Clickspring

Congrats Chris. A very painful experience to have that paper to pass through... all it had to pass through :) Takes a strong perseverance. And I’m proud to be a small part of this great adventure. 👍🏻👍🏻

Roberto Amato

Have you thought about putting all of the information about the build into a book when you're are finish. I think it would be very interesting

Luther

I loved reading the paper! College statistics was a struggle for me. But like many struggles the result was the retention of sufficient understanding to be able to follow the conversation without the ability to add to it. One question. Did Figure 4. Inter-hole residuals by hole number, not fully render in the frame? Section 6 is missing in the pdf I down loaded. Lastly, am very pleased to have what would be coffee money do far more good! And really hope the health issues are resolving!

Ron Kellis

Great video as always and a wonderful paper. Great just great .

Luther

This is a fascinating series Chris and I am glad to see you back to it and hopefully feeling better. May you and your family enjoy the rest of the year and find yourself with an easy holiday season.

Robert D

Me too - Thank you Dan :)

Clickspring

Yes, much more to come on this project - Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you Russell, I do hope you enjoy it :)

Clickspring

Cheers Adam :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you mate!

Clickspring

No changes to the existing built components, I took this into account from the beginning once I noticed the discrepency. However it will have significant effects on what happens from here - Cheers :)

Clickspring

So glad to see you back at it Chris! I hope you and your family are well, and I'm looking forward to the rest of this journey. No matter how long it takes. Cheers mate! 👋👍

Mark

Really glad you're back at it

dan Suskin

Very nice to be back mate :)

Clickspring

Cheers Tim :)

Clickspring

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you :)

Clickspring

Awesome, so pleased mate )

Clickspring

Congrats! It's interesting that it has taken a hobbyist clock maker who wants to build it from the original evidence to discover this discrepancy! Very excited to see the rest of the build. Are you going to try to recreate the missing gearing?

John Nichols

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Cheers Chris :)

Clickspring

Chris I really do admire you. Keep up the good work. I’m going to read your paper.

Russell Reckman

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Cheers Sacha :)

Clickspring

Thank you Douglas :)

Clickspring

Incredibly exciting! Thanks so much for your hard work and dedication on this project, very inspiring to see what you've accomplished

Adam Wulf

So pleased to hear that mate :)

Clickspring

Cheers Mark :)

Clickspring

Cheers Robert!

Clickspring

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Amazing work Chris. Glad to see the build series back on. Hope that your in good health.

Clayton Firth

Me too :)

Clickspring

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Thanks Derek :)

Clickspring

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Thank you Ben :)

Clickspring

Exceptionally good work (and most enjoyable video to document it). I agree that putting the discrepancy down to "builder error" in an otherwise remarkably well planned and executed to the highest standard machine is very unlikely. Thanks for defending the unknown creators and builders reputation of the device. One thing that hasn't changed is the makers of the world are quick to take heat and slow to be given proper credit, even after 2 millennia have passed. Cheers!

makovette

Cheers Sam :)

Clickspring

So pleased to hear that!

Clickspring

Chris, will there be changes to some of the previous build videos because of your findings, or just additions the the build. In other words will there be some gears removed, holes filled. gears teeth changed? Stay safe thanks Ralph

Ralph McCoy

Nice to have you back Chris :-)

Matt Waite

Awesome! Can't wait!

Tim Crothers

As a fellow researcher looking back in time to understand the intentions of early mechanical engineers: That was worth the wait. Thank you!

Thanks, I've been missing your beautiful videos.

Jammi

Awesome work; you will be in the history books, mate. On a minor note, I love the taper pin attachment that you use for those little brackets. I have been using taper reamers and pins in my own projects for a few years, since I first learned about them from your videos.

Leonard Solomon

Very much looking forward to seeing build videos again! This research may not have been as immediately engaging to follow for us, but the potential impact of the findings more than make up for that.

Balz Guenat

Soooo glad to see you back. Your first series (Skeleton clock) was awesome. This one is even better. Good to hear the research continues as well. Good for you. Can't wait for the next one because I'm learning so much about close tolerance machining (I'm an aerospace welder) and I've been fascinated by it for a long time.

Chris Slaughter

Well done Chris. Been looking forward to watching this for two years. A lot longer for you though 😁 a well deserved return of your AMAZING content. Congrats. ChrisG UK

Chris Gormley

Thank you for your diligence in your work very inspiring 🙏

Sacha Dean Langford

It has been my absolute pleasure to watch this channel grow and evolve from "merely" clock making to this incredible deep dive into one of the most fascinating archaeological discoveries.

Douglas Smith

Thank you Chris for a new video... These really make my day!

J Chris Druce

Such a nice surprise to see this pop up on the notifications! 🙏

Mark Roberts

Nice one Chris, I think I can speak for everyone when I say this is probably one of the best pieces of news to come from 2020. Look forward to watching this and the continuation of this amazing series!

Robert Harrison

Fantastic! I'm ecstatic to see the continuation of this series. Good on ya for sticking with it, and the amazing research that's gone into it!

Val storm

I've been looking forward to your videos.

Kahl'Zun

Very nice. Glad you are feeling better and congrats on the publication.

Dilapidus

👍

bruce linde

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Incredible discovery, and you present it so clearly!

Derek Meisenhelder

Lovely, sounds like a great evening :)

Clickspring

Great to be back mate :)

Clickspring

You can be incredibly proud about this. You have contributed something that has been overlooked for one hundred years. You are a proper scientist now :D I am a scientist myself, albeit in a whole different field, and I do understand very well that going through the rigorous process of getting your findings actually approved and published is extremely time consuming and frustrating at times. Congrats for putting up with it and succeeding! I am now very happy to hear that the building will continue and I am looking forward to upcoming videos!

CommanderTomalak

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

It's quite amazing that a YouTube home machine shop clock making project could lead to this. Absolutely awesome, Chris.

Ben Cromwell

Thank you mate, thrilled to have it complete. Yes we've corresponded with all of the current prominent authors in the field at one time or another, its been a terrific experience - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Incredible. Will dig into this paper tomorrow. I've been waiting! Hope all is well Chris. We sure missed you!

sam littlefield

This made me really happy! Congratulations on completing the paper, that's no small feat.

Ztripez

Woohoo clickspring time. Great to see such detailed research

Thomas Richards

Good to see you man. Worth the wait. Will be sitting down later with a beer and cigar to read your paper.

Joseph

Cheers Erik!

Clickspring

Wait has it really been 4 years? I actually have a hard time believing this. Great to see its back regardless!

Harris Steaples

Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Hell yeah! Missed ya Chris :)

Jochen Heuser

Thank you Leo, very much appreciate your support :)

Clickspring

Ha ha! Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

:)

Clickspring

Thank you mate, good to be back :)

Clickspring

Congratulations on finishing the research for this! What a wonderful honor it must be :) I'm curious, have you and the authors of this paper been in contact with the previous scholars (Tony Freeth, Derek de Solla Price, etc.) at all? If not, do you know if they've commented about the new analysis? As always, thank you for your great effort.

Daniel Robinson

Sweet!

Erik Ordway

Brilliant! :)

Stuart

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO! /me dances Super Happy Snoopy Dance! Glad to have more of your awesomeness.

Leo G.

THE RETURN OF THE KING!!!!!

AzorAhai

We missed you!

Wayne Nocton

Woohoo!

Aidan Jeffes