Antikythera Fragment #3 - Ancient Tool Technology - Hand Cut Precision Files

That's a great idea :)

Clickspring

Watching this again Chris, (for the umpteenth time), and I think you need to make a 'Clickspring' touch-mark punch to sign your files :)

Duncan Luddite

Hello mate, in this instance it would serve no purpose to let the part cool and then re-heat, and would only risk further oxidation of the delicate teeth. The carbon infusion has already occured to the required depth, so an immediate quench is all that's really left to do - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Hello Chris, like always your videos are amazing and precious! I recently read “Hardening Tempering And Heat Treatment” by Tubal Cain which you recommended. Author suggests that after casehardening we should allow to cool, than reheat again and quenched. I saw on your videos that you are quenched right away after removed case. Could you explain why you use this method other one mention by Tubal Cain. Btw I’m totally newbie in all that metal thing, just starting.

Dominik Rogala

Hi Doug, yes it certainly does - At the suggestion of others I made the mod to the chisels shortly after making the vid , and it made the tool a lot more predictable to handle, much less of the wobbles! - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Hi Chris! I noticed (dare I say it :-) a slight wobble of the chisel on some of the strokes. Instead of a flat struck-end of the chisel, would a radius centered on the sharp end tend to self-align the cutter? Thanks for these!

Doug Strain

Awesome mate, so pleased :)

Clickspring

Wonderful Chris- you've inspired me to try making more of my own tools!

Matt Lukes

Hey Eric - One radial pin will suffice in this instance, due to the central bore being filled with a large diameter pin also. Between the two of them, they keep it all locked - Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Why just one locating pin, when drilling for the rivets? Don't you need 2 to prevent both translation and rotation of the pieces?

Thinking more about this, seems you could make this a reusable tool by having dowels/pins (not sure of the right word) off the main chisel, and having the slotting chisel slide on to them, with washers to space it out further depending on how wide you want the spacing between the grooves to be.

When chiseling in the teeth of the files, wouldn't a slightly less deep chisel mounted/spaced a bit behind the main chisel allow you to 'slot' in to the prior hit and keep the teeth both uniformly spaced and exactly at the same angle? In my head I'm envisioning your main chisel head, and then up and out a small amount another head, when you strike a line, you move the chisel up and tilt down to slide the other head in to the new groove, then tilt back forward for another strike.

Sounds reasonable mate, have a crack and let me know :)

Clickspring

I've watch this video so many times now. If my understanding is correct, file teeth perform better when they are more uniform whereas rifters/rasps do better with a more random variance. I've notice that the struck ends of your chisel are flat instead of rounded/crowned. I think that rounding/crowning them may help you have a more uniform tooth. It would probably help more with the wider files. They also seem to use a very specialized hammer as well, but that maybe a little bit much for just a few files. <a href="https://www.hrionline.ac.uk/matshef/unwin/MSfilecutter.htm" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.hrionline.ac.uk/matshef/unwin/MSfilecutter.htm</a>

Khanh Khong

Cheers Colin, terrific to have your support mate :)

Clickspring

I'm glad you're going to the trouble of making your own simple tools to work on this project. I'm not a metal worker but I find your videos so fascinating.

Thank you Chris!

Clickspring

I think this video series will have a similar legacy as the antikythera device itself! Loving this content so much brother!

A Glimpse Inside

Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Awesome stuff, as usual. I did watch the video about the carbon/heat treatment first, and I was wondering "hey, how did I miss the time he made those files??" :-) Now I know. Thanks for all the hard work I have no doubt you put into making these beautiful, informative, inspiring videos.

ShamWerks

Ha ha! Don't think it didn't cross my mind! Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Now come on Chris, you're cheating a bit mate. "Tools and techniques true to the period"... where's the video of you knocking together a little pedal-operated grindstone setup then eh? ;) Thoroughly interesting, and very professionally produced as always. I'm really looking forward to the next full video in the A.M. series!

Chris Talbot

Yes that's it exactly, you can feel it just touch the raised surface of the previous tooth, and while its sitting there, you just give it a hit. By far the most important part of the whole job is getting the straps and anvil to securely hold the blanks. You'll notice that it wants to walk on you particularly for the first face. The subsequent faces grip the tin, so they stay put quite well, but that first face is a bit harder.

Clickspring

I think I get it now after more watching of the reference videos and yours too the chisel cut is set referenced by feel of touch by fingers holding the chisel and by eye too

Frank Donahue

Thank you Peter :) Yes I was really pleased that it was much easier to do than it looked! Kind of relaxing too once I got into the groove. And I noticed that I got a lot more uniform cuts if I didn't stop at all. In fact the irregularities always occurred when I took a moment to look at the previous cuts - If I just belted through top to bottom, the result was much better. Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Hey Frank, there's really not a lot more to it than I show in the video - You lay the chisel on the work, lean it back away from you a bit, and then whack it with a hammer. Slide the chisel blade up to the front of that first tooth, and then whack the hammer again, and then so on up the line. Once you get in the groove, its surprisingly straight forward :)

Clickspring

Cheers Gordon, terrific to have your support mate :)

Clickspring

Hey Paul, still working at the school, but have cut back the hours a bit to spend more on the videos :)

Clickspring

High-class video, as always. You never fail to impress. I've made a few files and saws, either for a special shape, or because a proper file or saw wasn't handy. It is surprisingly easy to get regular spacing for the teeth, isn't it.

Peter W. Meek

Chris can you give a bit more info on how you did the file teeth cutting thanks another great video

Frank Donahue

Bloody spot on, as usual, Chris. To have me as a Patron, in Parteon, you must be not just good but great! Thus, I have but two Patreon beneficiaries and you are one of them, I sit here in good old Blighty, eagerly awaiting your next missive, which I hope will not be too far away. I'm now 65 and hope that I live long enough to see the finished Antikythera machine.

Gordon Burns

Chris, is making these videos now your full time job or are you still working in a local coal mine like the rest of us?

Paul Devey

Thanks George!

Clickspring

Love these home shop tool builds, looks like a lot of work has gone into this one. Brilliant as always Chris!

George Harris

Hey Al - I gave the chisels a light touch on the wheel after completing each face. It probably wasn't necessary to do it quite that often, but I really enjoyed the feel of the fresh blade, and the way it throws up such a clean tooth, I couldn't resist. I think the shop foreman would probably have had words with me back in the day!

Clickspring

Hey BB, It looks like a lot, but in reality its really quite a small quantity, so much too small to be recycled. Its enough to make a decent mess though! Having said that, iron was definitely considered a premium material at the time - Alexander is known to have instructed his generals to capture all of the iron they found, simply because it was considered so valuable. So any practical amounts were likely kept and reforged into something else. Kinda makes you think though doesn't it? given how much of the stuff just sits in the yard at every scrap dealer on the planet... Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Hey Stephen - The current guess is that the workshop tradition started several hundred years earlier, possibly on the island of Rhodes, under the guidance of a master (perhaps Archimedes) and then passed down as a generational thing within that "school" or workshop. Archimedes in particular contributed much militarily, so the connection to the military production craftsmen of the day seems entirely logical. For example, despite their culture being well into their Iron Age, bronze (+ leather) was still the primary material for personal armour. I would guess therefore that preparing raw bronze sheet stock would have been a well established process that could either be taken directly from the armourer's knowledge and applied, or perhaps the armourer provided it directly, saving a massive amount of time, much like Clerkenwell - A wonderful thought no? "Here you go Archy, 10 sheets of premium bronze sheet... Now what sort of gadget are you planning to build this time??" :)

Clickspring

Fascinating stuff! An education in every video. I wonder if the maker(s?) went down with the ship and the knowledge was lost for centuries. On a practical matter, how often did you have to sharpen your cutting chisel? Was it so hard that it kept an edge through all the files?

Al McKague

This is what blows me away too - its clear that the Hellenes were well and truly on the verge of an industrial revolution of their own had conflict not intervened.

Clickspring

Thank you Jess :)

Clickspring

Thank you Nikolaos!

Clickspring

Definitely more casting vids, cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Always more on the way :)

Clickspring

Cheers Paul :)

Clickspring

Thank you Pierce :)

Clickspring

Ha ha! Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

It's a lovely video. Thanks for making it. When I saw you grinding, scraping, and filing the file blanks before cutting the teeth, I could see a lot of iron dust building up underneath the work. Is it possible to collect that iron and recycle it (using period techniques)? It seems that if iron is a valuable commodity, some effort would have been made to conserve/reuse scrap. What would have been done?

Buddha Buck

Chris, really superlative stuff. A wonderful extension of the theories that others have contributed to trying to understand what the ancients were able to achieve; . I know the watch and clock making world was at one time centred on London and in particular around Clerkenwell; do you think the Greeks had specialists to resort to in the way Mudge and Harrison did? Were there families in Greece who specialised in smelting , forging, file making, tool making etc etc? Or do you think it was one small group of particularly gifted people? You've shown one person can make the tools, and do it using materials and technologies the ancients could probably access, but, do you think there was an organisation behind the makers of the mechanism? I have to say, I cannot wait to see the next episode - I think your work is amongst the very best on Youtube; well done!

Stephen Behan

I really love the insight into the technology of the time period. What amazes me more than anything is seeing the mountain of knowledge that was already necessary by this time just to build the tools needed to build the mechanism. Woodworking, leather, iron, brass, steel hardening, getting fires hot enough, understanding how to get the carbon into the steel, etc, etc. It would have already taken the support of a large community and wealth of history to get here. And without the knowledge acquired up to this point and through complex projects like this, we wouldn't be able to continue expanding our civilization. Thanks again for the amazing video and the wonderful education!

Phil DeJarnett

The planning and patience that you are putting into this is second to none Chris. So impressive and informative.

Jess Neal

Dang Chris. Your patience is legendary! Excellent video as always.

Always appreciate how accessible your vids are. Liking the home foundry work too. Maybe some casting vids in the future?

Peter Muller

Ah, my dream came true. This video made my morning. I appreciate all the auxiliary information in the video notes. I've seen the videos, but didn't know of the Nicholson PDF. I can't wait for more tool videos.

Khanh Khong

Quick Stop working. A new video is out. Amazing as always. So now you are building the tools to build the tools that make the device :) Always been a bit of a mystery how files were made and this video makes the process so easy to follow. The simplicity of the process and some of the tools is what i find amazing. When you first show the stripping device i had no idea how that would help and yet it is obvious once shown. This Old Tony is right. What bad things could be said.

Paul Busby

Beautiful and fascinating, wonderful as always Chris!

You are a wizard.