Byzantine Sundial-Calendar - Part 2 (Cutting The Wheels & Pinions)

G'day Chris. I'm sure you've probably answered this before in YouTube/Patreon comments but I haven't managed to stumble on the answer. I really love the backing track and have even heard it played in my local grocery store, but can never get the right answer from Shazam. Who is it please? Thanks mate. Looking forward to seeing the BSC all nicely engraved. It does of course mean that I'll have to watch all the videos again to catch up... but I'm not exactly going to cry about that =^.^= (think this is the 5th playthrough now)

Spadge Fox

Hi Brad, yes naval brass is notoriously unpleasant to work, the lead makes all the difference to its machinability. I use these: (Amazon affiliate link) https://amzn.to/2ZesqJ3 with a hegner 1e, size 4 is the largest - Cheers :)

Clickspring

What blades do you use on your scroll saw to cut brass? Perhaps I just need more courage to push harder, but my recently purchased Dewalt scroll saw doesn’t seem to want to cut brass well. The piece I tried to cut was naval brass with no lead, does that matter substantially? I know some brasses are easier to machine than others. A recommended brand would be useful, or blade type..

Brad Thayer

My apologies Gerry, I exported that pdf with the units still set to millimeters. I have corrected it now, so download it again and it will make a lot more sense! The circle with a line through it represents diameter. In the case on pg 7 of the drawing you mention, it represents the outside diameter of the raw blank from which the wheels are cut - Cheers :)

Clickspring

Hi Chris, love your work and would love to emulate it, however I'm a tad confused. Not used to these type of engineering drawings, normally work in wood so that might be the problem. The difficulty I'm having is the measurements don't seem to make any sense to me, for instance on sheet 7 it shows 52.5 yet the legend stipulates that all dimensions are in inches. Is there something I'm missing, some factor that's supposed to be introduced, or does the stipulated measurement need to be reduced by the factor shown in the legend such a 1to4, Also, what does the symbol that's represented by a O with a stroke through it mean. Thanks in advance

Gerry Hope

Hey Drew, no plans unfortunately, I just made it on the fly. The T-slotted plates are 25mm Aluminium. I have just measured the 2 main plates - the 'upright' one that attaches to the adapter plate (that mounts on the cross slide) is 140mm x 65mm. The horizontal plate that carries the motor and speed control (with T slots down each side) is 200mm x 85mm, and the long T nut on it is mounted approx 90mm in from one end (this gives a full range of belt extensions from pinions up to the max swing of the lathe). The motor mount itself is probably something you will be able to follow from the vid, but let me know if you need any more numbers. Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Chris, Any chance you have plans (or materials list) for the wheel cutting mounts you show in this video. I have a Myford (lathe and vertical slide) but am having difficulties with the Sherline direct drive cutter I've mounted on the slide. I'd like to make use of the motor in a fashion that you have and am not really wanting to make the mongo-sized mount Bill Smith had made for his Myford. Even a reference dimension for the aluminum plate thicknesses would be helpful and I can estimate the rest from the Myford slide and the video. Best, Drew

Drew

Hey Terry, I'm so pleased that you've come on board. The Antikythera videos are free to all viewers via YouTube, so yes you have access to them by simply following the releases on YouTube. The only difference here on Patreon is that $3 Patrons get to see the Antikythera videos 7 days early. If you'd like to be a part of that too, then you can upgrade your monthly pledge from $1 to $3 at any time. Any questions at all, drop me an email. Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Hi, Chris . I was just wondering will I have acess to your antikithera here too I am new to patreon. . I love your work

Terry L Lembke

Hey Keith, I'm working on it as I type! Had some camera issues which slowed me down, but I'm aiming for the end of the month, or shortly thereafter. Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Just curious as to when the next BSC video is coming out.? It's been almost 2 months and I need my CS fix!! :-)

Keith Everline

Hey Mart, There is a natural advantage of using the lathe regarding easily generating concentricity of the center hole and the blank perimeter, but providing you hold the cutter so that it swings in the plane normal to the blank, you can certainly use the mill and index as appropriate. For many clockmakers, it is their preferred method :)

Clickspring

Hi Chris, How feasible would it be to use the cutter in a mill like a normal d bit then just index the stock around on a rotary indexer?

Mart Hough

Comments are disabled for all Patron only content, it helps keeps the conversation all in one place :)

Clickspring

Just curious, but why've you got comments disabled for this one?

Scritch

Cheers Alex :)

Clickspring

always interesting to watch

Alex

Hey Jeremy, I think it would function equally well with involute profile teeth. Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Do you think using involute instead of cycloidal teeth would cause any operational issues? BTW, thanks for the great videos and sharing the plans!

Jeremy

A bit too far into the future to call at this point :)

Clickspring

Hey Magnus, it should be up in a few days at this stage. Its been a particularly time consuming one to edit, hence the delay :) edit - Just to clarify, I'm referring to the next AM video. The next BSC video will be some time next month

Clickspring

Love the craftsmanship, when is the next video coming?

Magnus persson

I look forward to those videos! Would you work from an existing movement design or roll your own?

Andrew Larking

Yes definitely Andrew. In fact its fair to say that almost every project I do is selected with a view to getting me to that ultimate goal. Watchmaking is an order of magnitude more complex and unforgiving compared to what I'm currently doing - I'm slowly working my way up to it!

Clickspring

Have you ever thought about making a pocket watch?

Andrew Larking

Hey Hamish, I do not have an upload schedule - the videos take as long as they take, and I don't release until I'm happy with them. Sometimes that will mean many weeks between videos. At this stage the next video will be out for preview viewing for $3 patrons in approximately a week, out on YT 1 week later.

Clickspring

I love this project so far on the Patreon series, Just wondering when the next video will go up on your main channel and this website, like what is your upload schedule? Thanks :)

Hamish Barnard

Hey Jace, the geometry of pinions is such that a different cutter is required for each pinion tooth/module combination - so 3 separate cutters required for the 3 pinions (7, 10 and 12 teeth) and one for the wheels.

Clickspring

Did you cut the pinions with the same cutter as the wheels?

Jace Walton

Hey Lars, terrific to hear that! The wheel work for the eclipse prediction mechanism was mentioned in passing by Wright in a journal article as a possible feature that the original makers could have included in the London device. He mentioned it as a speculative "what if", but as far as I know he never developed the idea further. I have pursued the idea fully, and also extended it by making the node display viewable on both the lunar and solar displays. This makes the device an outstanding teaching tool for explaining and understanding the mechanics behind an eclipse. The periods for the base mechanism are exactly the same as the London device. The additional eclipse wheelwork gives a lunar node precession period of 18.6 years. Much of the wheel work will be assembled and discussed in the next few episodes :)

Clickspring

Sincerely. Lars

Lars U. Lamm

Continued. And to what extend have you improved the gearing to get better periods?

Lars U. Lamm

Dear Chris. Thank you for the excellent material so far released, it is stupendously impressing, and I am going to copy your design. However, it would help very much if, at this point you could release a diagram of the wheel work . You have obviously done a great detective work in the historical sources and taken ideas especially from the al-Biruni machine and the one in London described by Wright, but wherefrom is the Ecliptic idea?

Lars U. Lamm

Yes I agree! Do you have any recommendations?

Clickspring

Hey Chris, have you ever considered investing in a high-speed camera? Some slow-mo shots of cutters forming chips would be absolutely beautiful!

Ryan Das

Awesome Jason, very much appreciate your support mate :)

Clickspring

Chris, you're the reason I started supporting people on patreon. All the best. I love your work.

Jason Monti

Hey Tom, I get stock from either www.georgeweston.com.au or www.georgewhite.com.au depending on stock availability. You can also try the model engineering suppliers like www.mesupplies.com.au (Melbourne) or www.minitech.com.au (Brisbane) if you are after smaller pieces, as well as local machine shops for offcuts of round stock.

Clickspring

That brass looks like beautiful stuff to work with. Where do you get your raw stock? (Im an Australian by the way)

Tom Jeremiah

In part 2 - should be just a little further down in the main timeline feed, or direct link here: <a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/byzantine-part-2-7965761">https://www.patreon.com/posts/byzantine-part-2-7965761</a>

Clickspring

Chris, where is the video where you made the cutters?

baker98270

Also, I've been busy. Geez, working early morning to late night. This video: <a href="https://youtu.be/9DhxrsGLZ8w" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/9DhxrsGLZ8w</a> is almost 28 minutes long. The video I promised to rebuild the Honda Ignition Lock. There's an addionital video: <a href="https://youtu.be/RFJhi6mcWdA" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/RFJhi6mcWdA</a> at 7:23 in length. Just things I forgot to mention in the 1st video. I really hope you guys enjoy it, lighting and figuring out what the camera focuses on is another challenge.

Adam Ackels

I had an idea Chris, but the time difference is a factor for most of us. YT offers a "Live broadcast" feature. I'm saying on a continuous basis, but it would be cool to watch you work live. Not necessarily on the project, like all your other videos. But just put the camera in a corner, facing the general direction that your working. Just a thought.

Adam Ackels

Yes my favourite podcast - Think of it as a little free value add ;)

Clickspring

Chris, there's some noise around 1:03-1:08 that you might want to remove for the final video. Sounds like a radio in the background.

rjk

Thanks Chris have a great weekend

Ralph McCoy

Hey Ralph, a perfect test material is perspex/hard acrylic. Its reasonably cheap, hard, and cuts nice and clean.

Clickspring

Chris, I have a question......... As I am not as good as you how would a cut a test piece. Would I use plastic, wood ? So when I finished with the test piece I will know is all the set up was AOK. Ralph

Ralph McCoy

The camera is a Panasonic HC X920 camcorder. It doesn't have the capacity to accept 'proper' lenses, so I occasionally use the cheapo screw in filters. Picked up a set of 4 for $15 from B+H, they do the job kinda ok, but at the higher magnifications the perimeter is quite distorted. Their best asset is that they seal off the camera from ingesting chips when I push the camera right into the shot - I shudder to think how much brass is floating around inside the camera housing...

Clickspring

As so many others mention in the comments, i loved your This Old Tony colab. Do you have a list of video equipment you use? Your framing and focus is immaculate. Specifically I am interested in the lens and camera used for the extreme closeup shots.

Makercise

Very Nice!

Cheers Alexei :)

Clickspring

Cheers Cody :)

Clickspring

Hey Wes, its a Hegner 1e and I use these blades: <a href="http://jewellerssupplies.com.au/super-pike-sawblades-pack-p-900.html" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://jewellerssupplies.com.au/super-pike-sawblades-pack-p-900.html</a> There is a post a little further up in this thread, with a bit more detail on what the limits of the saw and blades are - Cheers :)

Clickspring

It's insprising what you can do with such a tiny shop and a lot of dedication.

Alexei Barnes

I can't even imagine how good that must feel when you make the last cut and see that the teeth spacing/calculations was perfect!

StellarDrift

Chris, what is the make of your scroll saw? I'm sure you've answered this question a million times. I've done a quick search on some of the clock builds, but combing through a gazillion youtube comments is pretty tedious. Thanks in advance.

Wes Baker

Terrific mate, put the feet up and enjoy :)

Clickspring

Oh it really was - we had a ball writing it, really pleased with the way it was received :)

Clickspring

I just got out of hospital yesterday and am doing tired recovery at home. This is just perfect for that. Love yer work.

Forth Sadler

Oh, and your collaboration with This Old Tony was brilliant, you must have had some fun doing that and seeing the result. :)

Fastest scroll saw in the West. :)

Hey Carl, in mathematical terms the gear Module is the Pitch Circle Diameter in millimeters divided by the number of teeth. It is the metric way of representing gear size, (and is the reciprocal of the Imperial version, Diametral Pitch, which uses inch units. ) It is the key parameter used to communicate the size of the gear teeth for a given wheel, and so is an essential piece of data for selecting (or making) the gear cutters. Its a reasonably complex thing to visualise, happy to recommend some good books on the subject if you need more detail than that.

Clickspring

Can you explain what Module denotes in the drawings? Thanks!

Carl Heaton

:)

David Sinclair

Unfortunately, I don't have the nice well lit area you have, or a good HQ camera, or time to edit stuff. What I show is raw footage for those wondering. I have big money invested in tools and equipment. Also, been a locksmith for 26 years, so I've seen a lot in my days. Someday, I'll take y'all for a tour of my work van... Thanks Chris!

Adam Ackels

Good stuff :)

Clickspring

Well, I'm going to share the Cutting of the Honda High Security Key here: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATse_p1lRyQ" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATse_p1lRyQ</a> and tomorrow, I'll post the surgical operation of the lock that I must perform open heart sergury on.

Adam Ackels

Yes I reckon that's about right for the time estimate Adam - the setup is a bit time consuming, getting everything dialed in and confirmed, but once the cutting starts its a fairly quick and straightforward process. How are the vids coming along mate?

Clickspring

Just absolutely amazing, just everything is going along so well. I did the math on the 72 tooth wheel, I figure after it was all set and ran, took about 6 minutes to cut the entire wheel. For the type of cutter your using, that's pretty quick really. But I thought you used a multi-toothed cutter for the gears. I do remember you used this style cutter for the face of the clock... Just another reason to go watch that series all over again.. :-)

Adam Ackels

Ha ha! Thank you mate :)

Clickspring

Chris, mate... what have you done? Well I'll tell you what you've just done... you've just produced yet another sublime, professionally edited video with your inimitable, exquisite voice-over. I hold my breath for your next video in the series, so please don't cause me too much distress by having to hold my breath longer than is good for me. Keep up the brilliant work, Chris... I love it

Gordon Burns

Hey Ralph, you'll need to use an illustrator program to properly handle the image - I've provided a link to an excellent free program that I use called "Inkscape" in the post text above. Yes Sherline lathe, but no Sherline mill - Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Yes its a terrific book, a real must have. The vid with Tony: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycoCwoplU6Y" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycoCwoplU6Y</a>

Clickspring

Chris, Looked at the downloads and the 2mm objects on the "sheet" was very small. Will that be larger when I get it printed out ? I love the smell of chips in the morning .... it smells like victory. I thought you bought a shereline lathe and mill ? Great video work.

Ralph McCoy

Chris, thanks for adding the references, please keep doing so! I'm half way through JM Wild's book, great history section. I didn't know you did a video with This Old Tony, could you post the link?

Thomas Hutson

Ha ha! Me too Erik! I was so pleased to get the close ups in this video, the camera was about 3mm off the arc of the cutter to get the shot! Very nervous about whacking the cutter into the lens! Yes etching for the dial and other markings - it gives an excellent and highly predictable result, especially once its filled with dial wax. Cheers mate :)

Clickspring

Ha! Very pleased you enjoyed it! It was great fun working with Tony on it. Re the scroll saw, I use a Hegner 1e. It's several orders of magnitude better than a £120 unit, but unfortunately its priced accordingly! The blades I use are these: <a href="http://jewellerssupplies.com.au/super-pike-sawblades-pack-p-900.html" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://jewellerssupplies.com.au/super-pike-sawblades-pack-p-900.html</a> Yes it glides through the thin soft stuff like brass beautifully. Mild steel less so, tool steel *much* less so. No lubrication is required for brass, the blades will comfortably handle up to 3/16" brass sheet stock, upper limit is 3/8". The blade and tool combination is perfectly matched to cutting this sort of soft material. Tool steel is another story altogether. For this sort of harder material its very, very slow and tedious, and you can expect to break quite a few blades when you first try it. Blades are reasonably comfortable with 1/8" tool steel stock, but the absolute max limit is 3/16". Its very slow going at that thickness, because the tool is not really suited to the task, but it still beats other methods like chain drilling I think. Lubrication is useful for tool steel, but you can get away without it for thin section stock if you don't mind nuking the blade. Hope that helps Stu!

Clickspring

I love the way those cutters look while they're working, almost like the teeth just appear by magic. Can't wait to see you working on the face of this thing, I'm guessing you went with etching again?

Erik Larsen

Great video, as always, Chris :) May I ask what scroll saw you use? I bought one for my sister for xmas and although I researched it quite thoroughly and it was in the budget region it turned out to be complete garbage even at the price (~£120). I'd like to invest a bit more and get her something less disappointing. Also what blades do you use? Seemed to glide through! (Yes, I know it was sped up for the most part, but there was a 1x speed shot). Thanks :) (Loved your video with This Old Tony by the way!)

Stu

Cheers Alan :)

Clickspring

Im always mesmerized by gear cutting, great vid

Alan T Pena