HIDDEN HOUR: Dr. John's thoughts on Turpin children's first interview
Added 2021-12-09 02:24:42 +0000 UTCJohn and Lauren watched Diane Sawyer's interview with Jordan and Jenny Turpin who described years of abuse by their parents. While the investigator on this tragic case said during the 20/20 interview: "There is no why", many of you wrote asking Dr. John to help us understand. These are our initial thoughts.
Comments
I would offer that early childhood isolation in the home magnifies the effects and impact that poor parental mental health can have. The home is the entirety of the child's world. Little outside the home is understood, and that world is translated through the lens of the parents' unhealthy view.
Minty
2025-01-17 19:21:43 +0000 UTCI came here to say Quiverfull also! I'm a formerly homeschooled child in recovery (37 now) and part of a community dedicated to recovery from early childhood isolation (homeschooling) along with all of the other co-morbidities that come with homeschooling. Many, many children are harmed as a result of being raised in a Quiverfull home. Research shows that people can only maintain close relationships with a maximum of 4 other people. In a family, this includes the spouse. If you add the responsibility of full-time education on top of normal relationships for the main caregiver, it is an impossible task for even the most dedicated to manage. It harms children in many many ways.
Minty
2025-01-17 18:39:35 +0000 UTCMany thanks for this episode. I just subscribed this month, that's why I'm commenting very late. I wish you could do a new episode about this case. What disturbes me the most is that at the end of the Turpin trial, two of the kids came and almost defended their parents during the victim statements. One of them even said she wanted to talk to them on the phone. I don't know if I should admire them for their ability to forgive, or feel so sad that somehow (at this time at least) they are still completly under the psychological influence of their parents (understandably so). Is this a case of Stockholm Syndrom (if such a syndrom exists)? And also, the way they say they still believe in God's will. Again, I don't know if I should admire the strenght of their faith or feel so sad. Is this a way to protect themselves from anger? Because they intuite that if they just allowed themselves to be angry (at their parents and at God), they would explode and be completly out of control? Is this a way to try to make sens of what happened to them? It's really not a critic of the kids, on the contrary, I'm just half admirative half super sad that they are still in psychological chains (and again, that's 100 % understandable). If I had to sum up my questions in one sentence, It would be: is it possible to forgive that fast and "skip" the part where you "allow" yourself to be angry? Many thanks again for this channel (and sorry for my awkward way of writing english, I'm not a native english speaker).
Moonlight
2023-06-16 21:00:46 +0000 UTCThank-you. I’ve been thinking about your reply and what your experience is. Are unhealthy adults, who have been victims as children, generally able to think clearly enough to get help? Janice told Adam Lori wasn’t hurting anyone-so let her live in her world. There is acknowledgement from both family members that Lori was mentally unhealthy if Adam was asking in the first place and that was Janice’s reply. And we know Charles efforts to get Lori help. Merry Christmas to the Dr. John and Lauren Matthias family!
ShaRee
2021-12-24 00:06:19 +0000 UTCGreat theory- I agree that there is some component of her ongoing pregnancies that appealed to David (maybe even a fetish of sorts). Thanks for sharing this perspective. John
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-12-22 02:31:57 +0000 UTCInteresting thought. I wonder how seriously this family viewed the 10 Commandments. Maybe they were more of an ideal than a reality for them? John
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-12-21 22:27:36 +0000 UTCGreat observation- thanks for pointing this out Jennifer. So much "thingification" in this case- love that term too. John
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-12-21 22:25:40 +0000 UTCWe definitely look forward to covering Keyes from a psychological standpoint. I think most commentators have only scratched the surface of that case. No one has really discussed the larger psychological issues around evil with Keyes and all its ramifications- so we want to explore that area in depth. Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment is still probably the gold standard when it comes to assessing the complexity of the criminal mind and we will be looking closely at that novel too when discussing Keyes. When I first started researching the Keyes case I had continuous nightmares for two weeks- and I have worked with some very disturbed criminals for many years. We look forward to your thoughts on the Keyes case Samantha! Thanks for the information. John
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-12-21 22:23:53 +0000 UTCI'm not sure if David was stoned or stunned- or maybe both. He must have believed that he was untouchable at some level because the children had been abused for so many years without any public scrutiny. It is an interesting idea to me that substance abuse may have played a large role in his behaviors and parenting. Great observation. John
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-12-21 22:13:38 +0000 UTCThanks Kay- as always we appreciate you and this comment. John
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-12-21 22:11:08 +0000 UTCI agree- it's hard not to feel compassion for children who have experienced some type of childhood trauma. At some point, however, if someone is harming their own children they should develop some awareness of that behavior and seek to change it, especially if they have had difficult childhoods themselves. You might think they could relate to that type of harm and attempt to stop it. That difference is what separates healthy from unhealthy people. Thanks for this comment ShaRee. John
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-12-21 22:10:06 +0000 UTCThat makes sense, although people with mental health issues often still cling to their version of religion and adapt it to their needs accordingly. Religion may have played some role in their behaviors and lives, but within the larger context of their mental health problems. Thanks for this observation, John
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-12-21 22:05:58 +0000 UTCInteresting analysis- I think Freud would be very proud of this interpretation of David, although I think he might opt for more of an "unconscious" explanation for the "body phallus" hypothesis. Thanks for sharing this insightful interpretation. John
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-12-21 22:02:48 +0000 UTCThe research showed that a disproportionate number of terrorists had an engineering background- around 25%- which was still a statistical minority compared to the larger sample. Most engineers I know, including my brother, are wonderful and thoughtful human being- I have no doubts Stacie that you are not a terrorist if you're willing to point out that you are an engineer on this platform. Thanks for being a part of our Patreon community. John
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-12-21 21:59:23 +0000 UTCWell. I’m happy we can keep Dr. John to ourselves 😂 I think the Turpin children are so sweet. I hope the other half of their lives feels wonderful to them after all they have been through. They do have an uphill battle though. 😭 I agreed on everything you both said. My MoM always tried to get me to think why people act the way they do. Or what happened in their lives, seen or unseen, that make them behave the way they do. Sometimes I look at Lori or Louise and what shaped them. I can have some compassion. They were children and victims themselves at one time. But what I don’t see is either of them reaching out for help and they are adults. So the compassion flees. 😬 I hope I’m right with that thinking.
ShaRee
2021-12-16 21:38:06 +0000 UTCI think Louise and David showered regularly. Their children were only allowed one bath a year, and could only wash their hands. ….It really just occurred to me, as I typed that, just how right Dr. John is about the mental health aspect in this case. 😑
Katie Marlowe
2021-12-14 05:38:21 +0000 UTCI had a similar thought about Louise’s compulsive pregnancies. It never occurred to me that David might have been the motivation, but you could very well be on to something. I thought that, at the least, Louise liked being pregnant but did not like -or was not capable of- being a parent. I’d speculate that perhaps pregnant women were revered in some way within the Pentecostal community she grew up in. But, your theory is just as plausible …and a lot more interesting!
Katie Marlowe
2021-12-14 05:31:48 +0000 UTC🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Katie Marlowe
2021-12-12 08:05:06 +0000 UTCI might have missed something, but, it was my impression that Louise and David grew up deeply immersed in the Pentecostal religion, and also claimed early-on that God had told them to have as many children as possible. But, I don’t think they were active members of any church in California. In fact, they evidently spent quite a bit of time in casinos and drinking in bars - which is clearly at odds with the Pentecostal church’s teachings. I guess my point is that I’m not sure their religion has as much to do with their actions as their mental health. Just a thought.
Katie Marlowe
2021-12-12 08:02:07 +0000 UTCThey also gave all their kids “J” names. Andrea Yates was also part of the Quiverfull movement. I get so frustrated that this religious fundamentalism was not discussed more in the 20/20 interview - I believe it’s a vital piece to understanding how this happened.
Vivian Hall
2021-12-12 02:18:44 +0000 UTCI think you guy's had 11 subs on YouTube when I first sub.. look at you now. I knew it.
Kay Sunshine
2021-12-10 17:55:40 +0000 UTCAnother good one Hidden True Crime
Kay Sunshine
2021-12-10 17:54:29 +0000 UTCSince you talked about David's hair, this is what I have to say about it: intentionally or not, with his body type, it's phallic. David from legs to haircut looks like a phallus. Frenulum (wrinkled forehead) and banjo string (narrow nose).included. I have a difficult time believing he doesn't know this. It's probably one of the ways he proved he was the "man" inside his family and that God had made that abundantly clear. Ugh.
B Sprak
2021-12-10 07:04:39 +0000 UTCI found both Louise and David’s reactions to the cops on their front porch very interesting. She was up in arms; he was stoned out of his gourd—he didn’t even move so the cops could get thru the front door. He spoke slowly and almost incompetent. Would love to hear insights from his previous coworkers. His haircut speaks volumes to his lunacy, IMO.
Stephanie Malmstrom
2021-12-09 21:30:57 +0000 UTCOK I LOL'd about the analysis around engineers... I'm an engineer 😁 but can agree with all of that. I promise I am not a terrorist. All of these cases have such a cultish undercurrent. So interesting. Thank you for your analysis of this interview. These poor kids.
Stacie
2021-12-09 16:55:43 +0000 UTCThis will be a long comment, FYI. Extreme beliefs strike again! It is so interesting to hear Dr. John’s perspective on these cases/families (Turpin, Daybell/Vallow/Cox, Duggar, Keyes) and I look forward to more discussion of that fascinating dynamic. I am most interested in the Israel Keyes case as he is an example of the aftermath of extreme beliefs – his mother has hopped from one extreme Chrisitan following to another throughout her life. I encourage you to dig deeper into the Keyes case than the initial idea that he killed at random with no pattern. There is a fantastic podcast (True Crime Bull Shit, hosted by Josh Hallmark) that details Keyes life, family, and travels. Hallmark compares Keyes’ FBI recordings with the case files and timelines that document his travels across the US and dig deeper into Keyes “jurisdiction hopping” between abducting victims in one area/state/county, committing murder, etc in a neighboring area/state, and then disposing of evidence in a third area/federal forest land/body of water. Keyes admits to at least one incident trio of murder – bank robbery – arson (I believe it was in TX), and there is evidence, including surveillance video, of this pattern continuing. Check out Hallmark’s extensive information, including a fascinating Keyes timeline, at our-americana.com. Matching a timeline ok verified Keyes locations (from receipts, family accounts of holidays/gatherings where Keyes disappeared for several days, etc) with unsolved missing persons cases, plus adding some internet search records from Keyes’ computer regarding missing persons (there were 44!), Keyes’ story is much more in depth than “random killer guy”. Back to extreme beliefs: Keyes’ recorded FBI tapes include his detailed account of kidnapping, torture, and murder of Bill & Lorraine Currier, it’s terrible and detailed to listen to but he talks about having his “plans” ruined and having to just shoot Bill. My thirdhand not an expert understanding is that he had plans to reenact something regarding childhood trauma involving his parents. He also mentions that he wanted to “do things” in churches. TCBS podcasts include interviews and discussions with Dr. Chris Kunkle, a clinical & forensic psychologist, and that adds great perspective. However, Dr. Kunkle doesn’t have a podcast/youtube/patreon with literary references and discussion of common themes between the impacts of extreme religious beliefs – that’s Dr. John territory. I can’t wait to hear more from both of you, Dr. John and Lauren, your analysis is fascinating and the conversational tone of husband & wife and forensic psychologist & inquisitive journalist can’t be beat. Thank you!! PS. Thank you for adding RSS feed options to your Patreon so listeners can access episodes outside the Patreon app!
Samantha Wolf
2021-12-09 15:36:45 +0000 UTCAbout the "J" names: J is the 10th letter of the alphabet, maybe a reference to the 10 Commandments?
Allison Kellner
2021-12-09 12:10:46 +0000 UTCRe the “J” names pattern—it seems like another indication that the children were not to be seen as individuals but rather as elements of their parents’ art or engineering project. It contributes to the ‘thingification’ of the children.
Jennifer Hudson
2021-12-09 09:19:23 +0000 UTCThank you so much for covering this case. It's so heartbreaking. It's also so important to bring it to the surface so we can be aware and watchful. Thanks for all you both do!
TriciaTheTrucker
2021-12-09 07:30:30 +0000 UTCDavid Turpin seems to view Louise and the children as objects he owns / owned and had the "god given" right to do anything he wanted with. I think Louise has some of the same flaws her husband does as a parent, but was also being abused by David. The whole thing is a tragedy for their kids. It's sad that the Turpin kids were deprived of their childhoods and will face so many more challenges just navigating the world due to the criminal selfishness & cruelty of their parents.
B Sprak
2021-12-09 05:16:11 +0000 UTCI was forced into being a single mother of twins when they were a year old. My husband was emotionally and physically abusive to me. My only focus after he left was to raise them as happy, healthy people. They are 10 years old now, and all three of us are doing very well! I am heartbroken for the Turpin children. I cannot fathom allowing children to be abused in any way. I hope and pray that these children/ adult children are being cared for!!
Krista Steiger
2021-12-09 04:50:10 +0000 UTCDr. John, I have a theory regarding the Turpin’s compulsive childbearing behaviors. My theory revolves around Louise’s diagnosis of Histrionic Personality Disorder. I suspect that David had somewhat of a fetish for pregnant women and Louise capitalized on that with near back-to-back pregnancies. She used pregnancy as a means to seduce David and elicit more favorable treatment. In a way, the children were just an unfortunate byproduct of her compulsive, attention seeking behavior.
Lindsey Lou
2021-12-09 04:44:02 +0000 UTCI completely understand patron being a more comfortable forum for Dr John. A smaller more intellectual group makes sense. Personally, the chat function on you Tube creates anxiety for me. I like a slower process so I can think about what is being said warp speed comments stress me out. 😂 not sure how John feels about why he likes patron verses you tube but it wouldn’t be a stretch to imagine similar thoughts. Interesting open observations on the Turpin parents, those poor kids will struggle all their lives from those two ass clowns who felt it okay to treat their children like personal objects. I think we can all agree some people should NOT procreate. None of us are perfect in the parenting department and raising kids is not easy and we don’t always get it right but if you can’t even start with understand looking like Jim Carey in dumb and dumber is not normal....🙄and chaining children to their bed not okay (can’t believe I just typed that). People who abuse children really disgust me and I won’t even say what I’d like to do to David. I will leave compassionate people like Dr John to handle them in a much more humane way. . Anyway, thanks again guys for sharing, you two are awesome!
RobynB
2021-12-09 04:34:41 +0000 UTCI was also shocked to see that their dogs were very well fed and in perfect condition. Usually abusers start with animals. In this case they abused the children and spared the dogs..... insane.
Nicole Plazas
2021-12-09 04:32:04 +0000 UTCThank you!! Great podcast! Looking forward to the Patreon talks!
Nora Ann
2021-12-09 04:31:26 +0000 UTCI have one child and I can see how my shadow side distorts my feelings and how generational issues occur. My dad talked with me about this, but until my kiddo started rolling the eyes and pointing out my ADD behavior, it made so much sense.
Cindy
2021-12-09 04:25:25 +0000 UTCGreat thoughts. I’m interested in why they needed to be filthy. Also, how could David’s colleagues not smell him?
Heather Carter
2021-12-09 04:24:52 +0000 UTCDear Lauren and Dr. John: the mother, Louise, was in fact sexually abused by her own grandfather. He also abused Louise's mother. The sister said ( I believe it was in the 60 Minute special) that Louise's mother would take her children to the grandfather daily to be abused for money. The grandfather apparently abused his own daughter and all of his female grandchildren. Louise married young to escape the abuse. Of course none of this justifies what she did to her children, but for sure it explains her poor mental health.
Nicole Plazas
2021-12-09 04:22:01 +0000 UTCSomething to think about is that hoarding can include animals, possibly in this case hoarding included children (reinforced by religious beliefs). Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things. Randy Frost has several articles re hoarding.
Heather Carter
2021-12-09 03:55:16 +0000 UTCLoved this! Thank you.
Laura Pearson
2021-12-09 03:41:36 +0000 UTCLove these discussions - another great one! I LOVE Dr John’s thought about doing a podcast on parental influences (quite honestly slightly scared). If you do pursue that, please include ways people can potentially adjust. Certainly not perfect here and always looking to be better.
CuriousinColorado
2021-12-09 03:31:09 +0000 UTCThe Duggars are part of the Quiverfull Movement. They believe that you should have as many children as possible and not use contraception. It’s another Cult that doesn’t think it’s a Cult.
Tamara Wakeman Sukohl
2021-12-09 03:09:21 +0000 UTC
