Bargaining Position
Added 2019-11-27 01:09:41 +0000 UTCDear Insane Children,
Happy Off With Turkey Head Week! How's everyone doing? Lots of people traveling home for the holidays? Looks like a "weather bomb" about to hit the USA. Everyone stay safe out there. Here in China, we're planning a small family dinner - and, yes, we have turkey! - which will be Lucky's first Thanksgiving. Awww.
Creative Dissolve
My work on defining the how-what-why of Hatter's Domain continues. In terms of words on paper, it's mostly there... but I've spent hours thinking about the narrative implications of Hatter's experiments - and findings - and how those work into the overarching stories for Young Alice and Regular Alice (Old Alice? Modern Alice? She needs a better name!).
I'm almost ready to present what I have in mind (maybe later today) but in the meantime, there's a conversation with Omri (and art!) I'd like to share. Omri writes...
we are going into the Hatter's realm and we did already show this a while back. but i think we can show it again because it's still kinda unresolved.
I redesigned then the dress from that look of that gray shirt thing because it wasn't detailed/styled enough in comparison to the other outfits that Alice wears before and after that realm.
it looked like a cheap version of an outfit and also we already used something similar in the actual Asylum.
this "outfit" is like a dress made from rags. i think you can repost these and if people won't like it, this is the time to redesign it. i think that for Queensland it seems that people love the red dress we created and for Denial, the Yellow one, Shock Bunny onesie. Only slumber's outfit needs to be designed.
To which I replied:
Good to revisit this. Back when we were initially working on the dresses and thinking of Hatter's realm as reflecting Alice's pleading/bargaining stage... a dress like this made sense. Now that I am re-working the meaning of the Hatter's (Bargaining) Stage and what it means to the overall narrative of the game I think it would make sense to redesign this dress.
We need to add this new thinking into the mix: The basic concept I'm working with is that Hatter's discovered through his experiments that there's something working to destroy Wonderland from the outside. He's mapped out the nature and shape of Wonderland as best he's able - with his last experiment causing an explosion that destroyed his lab (and most of his domain). And in the process, he's become aware of a dark (Chaos) force which seeks to undermine the foundations of Wonderland, kill all its inhabitants, and kidnap Alice.
In this scenario, it's Hatter who is the avatar for Bargaining since he's the one who is imploring Alice to help fight against the external force working to destroy Wonderland. He's trying to maintain the status quo.
We might consider a couple of possibilities for her dress in this context:
First, a "status quo" dress would simply be the Classic Blue Dress.
Next, an "alchemy dress" might represent Hatter's realm and the method he's used in uncovering the threat.
Or we could represent the broken nature of this realm with a patchwork "blown apart" dress? Nah...
I dunno... looking at your timeline of dresses... I am kinda leaning towards the Classic Dress. It would be the first time we've shown that to Player in the current story. And it certainly carries a lot of "status quo" meaning.
A bit of a reveal around what I have in mind for Hatter's Domain - and the game narrative in general.
And a question as to redesigning a new Bargaining Dress or going with the Classic Dress for this stage.
Have a think and let us know in the comments below what you think!
From Shanghai with Gobble, Gobble,
-American
Comments
I love the outfit, no to the hair. It doesn’t scream insane! Long with clumps missing or shorter
2020-06-21 08:30:01 +0000 UTCI agree that the classic blue dress would be better for the status quo part, but I lowkey want to see a patchwork dress... Also the pleading dress v4 reminds me of that kid from Peanuts, carrying dirt around...
Chaussette
2019-11-28 01:39:55 +0000 UTCI like this design, but the previous one was better in my opinion.
Wiki
2019-11-27 09:30:09 +0000 UTCTo be honest, looking at this dress makes me feel pretty torn. I do like a few of the ideas mentioned above to be shown and see how they are. But, i do like the concept omri is portraying a lot as well. Although I think it just needs to be fiddled with a bit. For example, I think making it much shorter would help get rid of the bit of awkwardness it has from its current length. While I loved the grunge, worn down look he drew, as it's done extremely well (honestly all his work is stunning in general) it looked...off. After looking at it for quite awhile and trying to figure out what felt off to me, it hit me that it was the length of the dress that was bothering me the most. And i like the round bottom but i think would look better and be accenuated in a shorter and some tatters around the roundness as well. I also think adding tears, like she ripped and picked at her dress during her frustration/stress/despair she was experiencing eariler would be a nice added effect. As well as scabs and marks on her as well. Things like that to show that she went through hell and is begging, pleading to find answers. Personally, whenever I've hit a really nasty mental patch and when I got to the pleading stage during it, I felt like hell and probably looked like it to. You feel desperate to a maddening like level, determined to do anything to get back on your feet again. I know that ties into the bargaining stage though. How different are pleading and bargining? They are pretty interwined but, that just might be me as everyone is a bit different. I think Omri showed this effect with her hair, it threw me off at first but thinking about it, I think Omri hit the mark with it. It was a fantastic extra feature that made her look pretty worn down. On a random note......lucky should get a cute turkey themed costume/outfit .....and pictures should be posted of said cuteness. XD
Tawni Meyer
2019-11-27 05:14:37 +0000 UTCI'm not a huge fan of the silhouette of this dress? I like the all black version better
2019-11-27 04:20:36 +0000 UTCMy opinion in the pleading dress is it is a bit round on the bottom. Looks kinda like a bag of garbage or a diaper. I know it's just artMaybe just flatten it or add visible layers like a ruined dress.
2019-11-27 02:30:29 +0000 UTCFor differentiating the young from the modern, old Alice how about referring to the present day Alice as Contemporary Alice
2019-11-27 02:13:19 +0000 UTCTBH we prefer the default shock bunny suit to the patreon ver, mostly because it's not really a dress. It's a nice change.
Angel Wings
2019-11-27 02:10:22 +0000 UTCI like the idea of the blue dress, and working off gep's idea, what if it's the blue dress, but more like the one above? So like she's tryi g to build it from what she has, the silhouette of the blue but like it's made from the asylum clothes, with wonky stitching and the symbols?
2019-11-27 02:08:08 +0000 UTCwhat about making it a dress to match hatter's hat? white and black checks, some alchemy, etc?
2019-11-27 02:06:57 +0000 UTCUnfortunately this white "pleading dress" I feel just doesn't fit, in all ways. Not only is it not the most visually appealing, but looking at all of Omni's designs, it truly doesn't fit in (one of these things is not like the others). Do like Austin's idea, this one needs a redo. But the rest are gorgeous!!!
Tal'Ki
2019-11-27 01:38:26 +0000 UTCThe dress is disgusting and dirty which has such a powerful effect and looks amazing. However, I noticed it second. My eyes immediately focused on her hair and it was a hit to the gut that brought a gasp. It is perfect. When I saw it my mind immediately raced to images of her in the straight jacket where she had a shaved head and the lost look in her eyes screamed lobotomy. A child with shattered mind and mutilated psyche would easily end up looking like this Alice. Beautiful.
Hookboy
2019-11-27 01:36:09 +0000 UTCWhat if she has the blue dress, but it’s covered in patches and tears, and as she goes through the domain, the patches fall off and the tears close to show a clean, whole dress? Kinda like Alice, despite her broken self, forcing herself to pull herself together Edna mode style.
2019-11-27 01:31:54 +0000 UTCGlad you agree! I do think it Ties into the story rather well and seeing a different variation of her original dress would be really cool. Especially if the whole thing where to have alchemy symbols with different meanings for her story. Perhaps even ones from previous games as a sort of throw back? Her necklace MAYBE could be the Alpha symbol! Or even just the A standing for her name?
2019-11-27 01:24:37 +0000 UTCYeah, I think a Classic Dress plus some sort of Alchemy Cloud Field visual effect all around Alice... could be the answer here.
American McGee
2019-11-27 01:21:50 +0000 UTC
