UFO 50 & Lost Future Nostalgia (Ft. Boghog) | Patreon Podcast
Added 2024-11-28 03:55:06 +0000 UTCGreetings Patrons! On this month's Patreon podcast ep I am joined by Boghog to discuss our feelings about UFO 50 and the guiding philosophies and concepts around the release that we feel end up stifling retro gaming as an art form, despite the clearly effective BIGNESS philosophy that the game utilizes. So put on your berets and turtlenecks because this podcast is not a review of the game, but rather a discussion of the philosophy behind the game's design that is only really suited to be heard by indie game hipster ears ha.
As a bit of a background, the creator of UFO 50, Derek Yu, wrote an article about indie game design and marketing that both Bog and I have discussed a lot over the years -- prior to UFO 50 -- as it puts forward a lot of ideas about how to make indie games marketable and even has a section explaining why Dodonpachi isn't a marketable game. And while I think Derek is accurate in his description of the situation in the article (and consequently UFO 50), I find the methods he proposes to make "High Risk" genres (like shmups) marketable as artificial and ultimately reduces the future of the genre into a novelty.
Here is the article and it's fascinating to see how many of these ideas are directly placed into UFO 50. INDIE GAME DEV: ASSESSING RISK.
And while Bog and I don't agree with the ideas Derek proposes, we definitely respect UFO as a statement of his view of game design, it's just a shame that a dev of his talent didn't focus more on individual game depth, rather than nostalgic concepts and volume.
Thank you so much for supporting the channel and remember that this discussion is some ultra nerdy type of stuff and we don't bear any ill will towards UFO 50 or anything like that.
Sincerely,
Mark
Comments
I'm reminded of your take about gamers having broad level criticisms but no criticisms for specific games. Every broad take on the game in the podcast and comments is critical, but all the specific takes on games are positive.
10 11
2025-04-01 14:09:14 +0000 UTCMy picks for THE games are Bug Hunter and Onion Delivery. BogHog said he liked Rakshasa, so whats your pick?
10 11
2025-04-01 02:51:58 +0000 UTCYeah ha if you make your friends too annoyed with my vids you quickly fire off shadow Reborn for the good vibes
The Electric Underground
2024-12-19 04:05:33 +0000 UTCHell yeah, those are solid recs. It was the Silent Hill 2 vid that made me initially think I should share your vids. But then I got a bit timid. I will report back!
Arcade Hell
2024-12-19 03:37:21 +0000 UTCThank you so much my dude!!! Yes when Devs start using publisher brain to plan their game design, it gets ugly before it's even born. As far as sending my stuff to a mainstream dev, I say hit them with silent hill 2 remake, then shadow of the ninja reborn, and then death of arcade design, maybe that would be a good combo
The Electric Underground
2024-12-19 03:27:31 +0000 UTCDamn, this episode went hard. UFO 50 sounds like quite the passion project, but one that took a turn from artistic endeavor to commercial content very quickly. And likely driven by Derek Yu. In my opinion, the head developers or designers should operate as visionaries, focusing on making the best artistic product possible. And on the flip side is a publisher, who's trying to make the game marketable, pushing the advertising materials, finding the audience, and giving feedback to the dev team. And the two are working in loyal opposition to one another (due to their opposing focuses) to create an awesome game that the audience can find. All of this occurs in a negotiation as a team. But when the dev becomes more concerned with marketability and gamification... Bro, get out of the dev team and join the marketers. You're like a double agent, and you're sabotaging the artistic integrity. On another note, I really want to introduce my buddies in the game dev scenes of SF and Austin to your channel but I'm kinda scared. It's a hard pill to swallow. Do you have any particular vids or podcasts that (preferably big) devs have said were particularly insightful? Otherwise, I'm trying to work an angle to cold call them on Discord with a vid share.
Arcade Hell
2024-12-19 02:52:02 +0000 UTCscrew switch, we need that on PC. will be trying it on ryujinx though heh
Florida sucks
2024-12-13 22:56:26 +0000 UTCthere are some interesting essays on this from another notable Mark (Fisher) - ‘The Slow Cancellation of the Future’ and ‘Ghosts of My Life’ - i.e. on nostalgia for lost futures
Danny Abbasi
2024-12-09 13:06:45 +0000 UTCAnd after actually listening to your entire podcast episode on this, I realize you talked about WarioWare twice lol. My bad!
Dan Matte
2024-12-06 15:50:07 +0000 UTCOh yeah sim city is such a fun one, it d be fun to break down all the underlying mechanics at some point. I wonder if someone has done that already, worth looking into
The Electric Underground
2024-12-05 23:55:32 +0000 UTCI dabbled on those sim games last week and came across sim ants. I have to go back to that one because there was some crazy depth there. I assume sim city is the same
nogden
2024-12-05 19:51:06 +0000 UTCOhhhhhhhh snapppp!!! Looking now
The Electric Underground
2024-12-04 19:11:35 +0000 UTCDoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou announced for the Switch Today. Release 19.12.2024
The Game Gatsby
2024-12-04 18:46:12 +0000 UTCThank you very much my dude!! Yes I m really happy with how the ep turned out and really appreciate the kind words :-)
The Electric Underground
2024-12-04 06:12:53 +0000 UTCBigness 10/10! Editing Mark, thanks for the editing, and fighting through the bronchitis or something. BogHog, keep up the Beat'em Up AI breakdowns! "People don't realize that the poor imitation is corrosively eroding the greatness of the games from the past." (slightly paraphrased, but a good line of thought). Thanks for the conversation, gents. It's decent food for thought, especially through the lens of nostalgia. Going wide often costs you depth, and I can see where they started choking on the concept's design.
DrBossKey
2024-12-04 06:10:00 +0000 UTCWe are all a fresh 26 years old and will always be ha ;-) yeah I think this topic of lost future nostalgia is really fascinating and one that will keep coming up. Funny you should mention the hardware limitation because I forgot to point out that one aspect of the game that makes no sense at all is the 16:9 aspect ratio LOL. Ahh yes the good old days of 8 bit consoles being played on our 16:9 crts ha. Also one of the most important tech limitations of this era that I think is legit meaningful, the aspect ratio, is not even being replicated.
The Electric Underground
2024-12-03 17:42:31 +0000 UTCThis whole podcast was (pretend I’m not over 40 years old) FIRE. I’m working on a “nostalgia is a dirty word” video project and this added so many new wrinkles in my brain. “Alternate Universe Nostalgia” is the coinage that got me all riled up! Really poignant talking about our “Xillenial” generation being targeted and growing up through this marketing boom (and more so now when they’re actively shedding us off for the new suckers) ; the “meta-fication” of game collectors; the “uno reverse” of critique by quantity; and as always, bog putting a perfect bow on it with a meme: UFO 50 sequel =Capcom Classic Collection. Developer insecurity is a crazy-if-true theory but it does explain a lot… I still don’t understand how i every other medium amateurs can make in their bedrooms what professionals struggled to do decades ago, except retro style and arcade style video games. I think what does get missed in this conversation is the value of targeting old or “underpowered” specs for new games… (another poster mentioned PICO-8; Playdate comes to mind too) but I guess a lot of that is on UFO50. I get really excited about the Yuzo Koshiro and Huei Cat Hui Trading (ex-Compile)’s old-hardware new-games, but also I’m glad I’m not the only one who said Final Fight MD: BUT WHY!?
Spiders_STG
2024-12-03 17:23:18 +0000 UTCThank you very much!! I m really happy with how the ep turned out :-)
The Electric Underground
2024-12-02 22:57:08 +0000 UTCA mighty fine listen
Vrenna
2024-12-02 22:53:36 +0000 UTCI love the point about print mags adding bigness, that is so true, I had a guide book for Pokemon yellow that made the game feel so massive and epic. I think what's really important difference from that era and the modern era is that these guide books were not artificial. They weren't trying to evoke a false sense of scale, they were just unpacking what was already in the game. I actually think printing guide books for retro genre games with meat would be a fantastic way to make bigness these days. I am a MASSIVE guide book advocate for today's games, but no one wants to do them anymore cuz they are so time consuming and tricky to make, and probably don't sell well. But I think double action for example having a print guidebook would be a really healthy way to create bigness. Awesome comment I m gonna bring this up to bog ha
The Electric Underground
2024-12-02 19:39:06 +0000 UTCI love the high-score VHS tape idea (in-game or IRL). PO Boxes are an under-utilized mechanic these days. Lol This (and the article you linked) got me thinking about how “Bigness” doesn’t just have to manifest as an in-game concept. I collect 90/00s Japanese gaming mags and guides/art books, and those supplementary materials gave creators a chance to flesh out the world of a game in ways that were non-detrimental to the game design itself. I’m a print obsessive, so might be over-valuing that stuff a bit, but I do think it creates a sense of bigness that’s far more immersive and satisfying than just allowing a player to traverse a 3D barren landscape en route to some distant landmark that, in the 2D era, would’ve been a background detail for players to enrich with their own imaginations. It can be costly to design and produce that ancillary stuff, but I think there is an appetite for it, especially if the game takes its visual design seriously and has interesting process materials (concept art, physical models, photography) that don’t get to see the light of day once they’re converted to in-game graphics. Even a well-designed PDF magazine/guide/art book that end users can print and bind themselves would go some way toward establishing bigness that doesn't compromise game design.
SynthMilk
2024-12-02 14:37:20 +0000 UTCYes I think a release like UFO is gonna essentially seperate out the more intense fans like bog and myself and many of the patrons from the more avg retro gaming fan. That s why I like to describe it as a more hipster view of the game because it s not that Bog or I disagree with the general premise of the game, but we feel the premise isn't being utilized properly to push classic game design forward, it s a half measure that sort of just floats in it s own self contained bubble, rather than being a strong gateway force for classic game design, which it definitely had the potential to be
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 18:34:30 +0000 UTCYeah I only ever see a few talked about really, and I think that is a shame. When I first listened to this episode of the podcast I thought "well I'm not really sure what the big problem with it is" but I get it now. This whole collection bigness atmosphere is very debilitating to singular works, and their inspirations. I think it's cute how it's a fantasy console that exists in it's own time period and all that, and I don't mind that all the games are basically just little projects, but it is the aura that is concerning. Perhaps unfair to ask people just having fun to push the envelope instead of stay in this reductive kind of nostalgia ridden haven, but the more you see of games like this the more you want to ask for in terms of actual quality ingenuity.
Mister Mama Mia
2024-12-01 17:54:20 +0000 UTCWell that makes a lot of sense lol, cuz I kept looking through UFO 50 vids trying to find a game called Kenshin ha. I was thinking ... Wow no one has even played this Kenshin game ... So signals got crossed there ha
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 17:07:17 +0000 UTCis there a game named Kenshi in UFO50? i meant the actual standalone game Kenshi, released in like 2020 or something. i don't believe there is any game in UFO50 you could play for 200 hours lol.
Paulo H
2024-12-01 13:22:14 +0000 UTCThat s really interesting!! Yeah I need more chill sim games too, one of my favs is sim city on the SNES ha. The ost is so soothing too
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 01:32:35 +0000 UTCIt’s like a barebones civilization but dinosaur themed. Civilization has always been too complex for me to want to get into so this game hits the right notes with being fast and simple, but with just enough complexity for some nuance in strategy.
nogden
2024-12-01 01:30:38 +0000 UTCYes it is! Bog suggested it. https://youtu.be/PU0g45uEI84?si=PqyUPP0LaZgMiHJB And yeah, UFO 50 doesn't manage to capture the magic of the arcade originals
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 01:05:59 +0000 UTCMark, this is driving me crazy, what is the music break around 54 mins? OPN? Also--great ep. UFO 50 is a cool release I wanted to like but it's so thin, once the novelty wears off you're much better off playing one of the games its ripping off.
Ogremode
2024-12-01 00:59:49 +0000 UTCHi Melos! I LOVE your thoughts on dropping the whole played out, overdone, 80's BS nostalgia thing and instead if UFO 50 focused on the actual source of inspiration (as I understand) which was the PC indie game boom of the 2010's. This would have been so much more interesting and fresh of an angle because that period we have now exited (clearly) but at the same time it is still extremely relevant and connected to indie games being developed now. Damn, that would have been so cool.
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 00:48:17 +0000 UTCOh that's really interesting to hear! I have heard stories of people first being introduced to games by similar collections, like one of my first games was super mario all-stars (fantastic collection btw), but I really want to follow up on your point about shovel ware for sure because yes, imagine if that collection you started on had 1000 games (i think there are some crazy flash carts like this) and only 30 of them are actually really good. You'd spend so much time slogging through pure slush ha. I think UFO 50 just has way too much bigness in this regard because so far everyone has brought forth different ideas as to what the stand out games in the collection might be, whereas yeah in a NES collection stuff like Contra and SMB are instantly going to stand out.
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 00:41:45 +0000 UTCNICE! That is a deep arcade cut that even I had to look up ha, so shout out to really old school Capcom! I love finding stuff like this and Bog's point about how UFO 50 would be so much better by being open and direct about its influences so people can find them I completely agree with.
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 00:36:48 +0000 UTCThat is really interesting! You know I think that idea could work a lot better in principal because you could potentially get the benefit of bigness by having all the games associated with each other, but then hopefully each game also is more stand alone and expected to be individually good, which I think would work better in the long run if done well. So this is an alternative take on the concept that I think could possibly work a lot better, since the individual devs have a lot more identity. Kind of like if a bunch of youtubers all banded together to all cover shmups the same month, but then made individual vids on their channels all with their own unique voice.
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 00:35:04 +0000 UTCI was looking into Kenshi and it's crazy how little information there is available about the game outside of UFO 50 itself. This goes for the other games in the collection as well. it does really seem like UFO is a walled garden and that most people's interaction with the games is more like a sample platter as a whole, rather than specifically digging into individual releases. Probably because of exactly what you describe, once you finish the game it feels limited and so players just continue to move through the collection rather than honing in on one release to replay over and over.
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 00:31:48 +0000 UTCOh yeah I've seen a lot of Pico-8 stuff recently and yeah I share the same thoughts. It's a neat little way to get started with developing small scale projects, but outside of that it is too limited to push design beyond the fun novelty of an 8 bit system. For example it seems like Celeste started as a pico 8 game, at least early versions, but of course in order for the game to reach the level of development and complexity required, even for a platformer, it needed to be developed in a more sophisticated engine. Pico 8 is kind of interesting because yes it has massive overlaps with UFO 50's approach where it wants to evoke the nostalgia of an 8-bit system, but also to modernize it a bit to be more accessible. It's a neat concept but the problem is that the idea is not really able to continue to grow outside of the initial premise.
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 00:27:55 +0000 UTCThis game looks really interesting, is it a tactical RPG? What's funny is that in response to your comment I started to look at footage and information on the game, and there is pretty much no information about it outside of UFO 50 itself. As I'm looking at comments and the games people are picking, it really does seem like UFO 50 is a walled garden where it would be extremely difficult for an individual game in the collection to take on its own induvial identity outside of the game.
The Electric Underground
2024-12-01 00:22:11 +0000 UTCOh yeah I can see that being a strong pick, because of how popular retro platformers are with general audiences. It is interesting how much the collection is discussed as a whole, but how the individual games are hardly highlighted at all
The Electric Underground
2024-11-30 23:35:11 +0000 UTCYes it's a really tricky situation because I think a very well thought out multi step approach needs to occur. Where not only do retro style games need to find a way to appeal to the modern player base, which UFO 50 attempts to do, but then at the same time new retro games need to have a follow up plan to build and feed into the style of gameplay as a while without just making it an isolated novelty, which I think UFO 50 ends up becoming. And I think why this is such a struggle is because breakthrough games need to accomplish both of these goals at once, which is extremely difficult. I think crimzon clover was a game that managed to accomplish this on a smallish scale a while back
The Electric Underground
2024-11-30 23:32:30 +0000 UTCi feel these rants about the ultra success of this degeneration and loss of elegance and developments from the arcade deep in my soul... there seems to be very little interest in arcade game development mostly because it seems it will NEVER sell, modern audiences think arcade games are a plague, but if a modern ish non retro game incorporates one or two elements of an older game suddenly its cool. frankly, i believe that is a way of making casuals care about arcade elegance and mechanics. add it to NON retro games gradually, slowly, while slowly removing the casino degen of modern games.
Paulo H
2024-11-30 13:33:21 +0000 UTCI haven't played all the games so I wouldn't know what THE game is. I mean going by discussion I have a good idea, but for what I would eventually land on, probably Mooncat. I think it could be something interesting, I gotta beat it and see.
Mister Mama Mia
2024-11-30 04:08:43 +0000 UTCAvianos is THE GAME imo but night manor and several others are on the same level
nogden
2024-11-30 03:10:43 +0000 UTCPico-8 is such a weird thing, it's not just a fantasy game, it is a whole fantasy console. It is artificially slowed down and restricted, but rather well known too. Seems like a perfect extension of the talk. It was a fun novelty for me, but soon started to feel so... irrelevant? Studying real hardware and SDKs is much more meaningful. I just couldn't bring myself to care about something so artificial. But I found your channel through it, funnily enough. I was watching the shmup tutorial for the Pico-8 from Lazy Devs, and that's where it all started for me. I still like the guy, his advice was helpful even after I switched to c++. But I just can't share the enthusiasm.
tatsudon
2024-11-30 02:44:56 +0000 UTCa game that feels super big is Kenshi. i played this like 200 hours because of this concept of bigness, but after "finishing" the game, frankly its very limited and feels a bit wastefull.
Paulo H
2024-11-29 22:44:59 +0000 UTCI really appreciate that! Yes I m treating the new era of the patreon podcast as a full fledge production now I m glad you appreciate the editing :-)
The Electric Underground
2024-11-29 19:49:22 +0000 UTCI must say the production on this episode, with the musical interludes and fading back into mid-talk, is sublime 🤌
RC
2024-11-29 18:40:42 +0000 UTCIt's not quite the same but indie Horror/FPS Devs banded together to create The Dread X Collection. A series of "mini" games that act like a Horror anthology. Again, not the same thing as UFO 50 but "collection" games are definitely out there. Although, I think each of the Games from the various Dread X's have been released individually.
RC
2024-11-29 18:31:05 +0000 UTCLol I love this! Yeah yesterday I was thinking about something similar where it would be a lot more interesting and hilarious if the game started to use increasingly more elaborate and premises for how you play and discover the games lol. Like if they added an online leaderboard the game would contextualize that by you sending letters and VHS tapes in the mail or something ha. Yeah I agree if the meta fiction is what's gonna hold this together as a concept, it should be more funny and capture how crazy retro gaming marketing stuff actually was
The Electric Underground
2024-11-29 15:12:22 +0000 UTCI'm about 35 minutes in, so not sure if this gets brought up at some point, but it seems like the ultimate version of this format is to create multiple fictitious retro consoles with exclusives and multi-platform releases so you can stoke the flames of a new console war. You could even have a PC Engine/Duo style import console that requires some knowledge of Japanese language to get through its RPG and Visual Novel mini games. Then (here's the best part) you bundle in 6 distinct one-off print magazines: a console-specific propaganda magazine (think Nintendo Power) for each of the three platforms, and three multi-platform mags. One of the multi-platform mags will be 400-page monstrosity ala EGM circa Christmas 1994, that's mostly ads and back-of-the-box plot summary reviews with minimal import coverage; the second multi-plat magazine is a hardcore enthusiast magazine ala Gamefan with plenty of import coverage and absurdly positive reviews (no game ever scores below 70%). And finally you need the Next Generation style industry/trade magazine that discusses the business side of these fictitious platforms and endlessly speculates about future fictitious consoles. Oh, and polybag them with demo discs, and have mail away inserts for promotional VHS tapes. (I had the StarFox 64 one from Blockbuster, btw.) I mean if you’re going to pave over history, at least do it right.
SynthMilk
2024-11-29 14:06:09 +0000 UTCTo the Boss Hog, a Son-Son enjoyer here (outside Asia at least), love that game. Many of these arcade games still hold up if you delve into them and understand the systems.
francisco
2024-11-29 13:38:01 +0000 UTCThe points about Metroidbrainias were interesting to hear - for a long time I've felt meh about lore-heavy games where the mystery itself seems like a way for the developer to pull players through a standard experience. The kind of way lore functions in soulslike especially comes to mind, especially as the souls series and soulslikes became more and more standardized. I understand the fun of playing these games, but idk.. as a designer I just think worldbuilding/mystery/lore should work in other ways than like, ciphers lol. I quite liked Elephantasy Flipside and Sylvie Lime interms of recent indie works that have a nice approach to mystery in the world while remaining interesting/tricky exploration platformers But back to UFO 50: funnily (nightmarishly?), in some designer circles it's been criticized (mostly by a minority) for being "too retro/hard!" so it's this double-layered misinterpretation of old games: "UFO 50 games are unfair and hard and not worth the time, thus retro games are even less worth the time because those are worse..." As someone who personally grew up as a dev in the 2010s TIGs forum and have thought about UFO 50 a bit - I felt it could have been a stronger artistic piece if it was more about the 2006-2014 period rather than a fictional 80s. Because the games arguably are a response to that period. The 80s aesthetic doesn't feel like the best fit either towards responding to retro games OR talking about 00s/10s indie. Melos
Analgesic Productions
2024-11-29 04:47:29 +0000 UTCAs someone who's first videogame was a cheap plug 'n play console containing of dozens of NES titles, this game looks like it would be a bit of a throwback for me (didn't actually play it) but I felt some sort of cynicism toward it's popularity. Something about it is immediately obvious that the games were not made in the 80s (beyond just the 16:9 window scale). I agree with your complaints about it's "design philosophy". Also, on my original console I must have spent 60% of the time playing Contra, 30% Super Mario Bros, and 10% the rest consisting of mostly shovelware, so I'd say your point about collections generally just having a few highlights is accurate.
Seemoore
2024-11-29 04:05:21 +0000 UTCThat is an excellent description of how I feel Tim, couldn't say it better myself ❤️
The Electric Underground
2024-11-29 02:03:51 +0000 UTCI like the concept of warioware a lot better because it directly ties all the tiny bite sized mini games into an overall cohesive experience. Warioware is more holistic because if there is a bad game or good game in the collection it effects the rest of the experience. Honestly UFO could have at least introduced some kind of shuffle survival mode or something, and made use of all the games more actively. But yeah, I think warioware is a much stronger concept.
The Electric Underground
2024-11-29 02:01:54 +0000 UTCOut of curiosity, how do you feel about the WarioWare games in comparison, if you’ve played any?
Dan Matte
2024-11-28 22:32:48 +0000 UTCRather than being Retro Conservatives, you and Boghog are Arcade Vitalists. Both brands of hipsters love similar things but one side is content living in their nostalgic "golden years" and the other is passionate for a new Golden Age.
Tim French
2024-11-28 21:03:41 +0000 UTCJust out of curiosity, what qualities do you look for in heavy metal? I’ve never learned music theories and only started listening to thrash metal during highschool due to Megadeth, so I’m quite curious on this.
SanNevo
2024-11-28 20:26:15 +0000 UTCYep! And on top of this a lot of BIG games have their bi climax at the end, and so what ends up happening is that the game is made to have you compulsively grind through the majority of the game, and then have the climax, and then you walk away only remembering the end and not the absolute grind that was the majority of the experience
The Electric Underground
2024-11-28 19:39:05 +0000 UTCIt's think this bigness makes the consumer to producer gap humongous. Thus no one finds inspiration to contribute cause they feel they need another lifetime to do so. I take piano lessons. After 3 years I've learned that a lot of the Heavy Metal I love are very simple instrumental melodies carried ALMOST ENTIRELY by distortion and mixing in post. In learning this, I learned that guitarists are not as skilled as I thought, and more importantly that I am more skilled than I thought. Its hard to feel that way with games when it takes 200 hours to see all the game has to offer. You're probably exhausted and long forgotten your criticisms at 5 hours playtime.
Vullgarity
2024-11-28 19:24:59 +0000 UTCYeah exactly! I think the best way to describe it is like a sample platter ha. Where it s fun initially to grab some chips and carrots, but in the end you still need actual dinner to munch on ha. I think the game would have benefited immensely if it has a full fledge marquee title to anchor it. Or if they trimmed it down to a smaller volume of more developed games, but that would undermine the BIGNESS and marketing.
The Electric Underground
2024-11-28 19:21:06 +0000 UTCOh yeah it s always important to be skeptical of steam reviews and audience feedback on retro stuff because they often have really modernized tastes and yeah saying these are better than the original games is insane ha. But they often are looking for retro games to be less difficult and that sort of thing. And yes absolutely if UFO 50 wins I will do a full on review of the game, the patrons' will is my command ha.
The Electric Underground
2024-11-28 19:17:49 +0000 UTCSounds like a lot of these problems stem from the customers, whether the lack of critical eyes for the design of retro games or intolerance to devs and critics’ wild idea. I read through a bunch of reddit post on UFO50 sub and it seems like many of them think the games are better than their retro counterparts because they incorporate modern design ideas into them and that adds more depth to the games. I haven’t played the games myself to know but if there’s one thing I don’t trust modern audiences on, it’s their perception of depths. I suppose this is why we need critics to give players more insights into how to evaluate the quality of games, despite the intolerance of today’s environment. Would you be willing to review this game in-depth if it wins the patreon vote? The ideas discussed during the podcast is not one I can find anywhere online regarding the game, and I’m interested in the effects it will have once the ideas were shared properly.
SanNevo
2024-11-28 18:21:12 +0000 UTCI gotta say. I was enjoying this game at first. But I just lost interest. It felt like I was back on New Grounds in the 2000s. It was a bunch of shallow games that didn’t really have enough depth to sustain my interest.
SegFault
2024-11-28 18:13:48 +0000 UTCI agree completely and I do think this is the absolute power of bigness. So where I see UFO 50 as basically incomplete is that it s managing to get through the door as an individual collection, but it s stopping short of the next step of pushing the player into the genres proper. This a problem a lot of collections have, not just UFO 50. Sunset is a perfect example where the game has got you hooked, your interested, but there s no way to follow up this interest directly. I think Derek would say that UFO 50 s goal is to give people a sample, which is a good idea, but if the sample doesn't directly point to the main meal, I think it ll just remain a sample in the end. I think this is a real struggle of western devs where we really understand marketing, but we struggle to know what to do with the game's design post marketing.
The Electric Underground
2024-11-28 17:03:07 +0000 UTCOf all the games in the collection, it seems to be Sunset Drive and Mooncat which makes most players say "I would have bought this as a standalone game!" – which seems promising imo! I largely agree with the downer sentiments in the podcast ep, but there's definitely also something to be said regarding successfully convincing (tricking?) more casual audiences to actually engage with games that try weirder ideas like this. We all love old arcade games around here and don't need convincing of their value, but that's not necessarily the case for the audience UFO 50 managed to reach. Despite what they're saying now, I doubt anyone would have bought Sunset Drive standalone if it simply released that way – it's only after getting their hands on it that they're actively considering it unprompted. Makes me wonder if we've all actually been participating in a social experiment to see what style of indie game people will actually buy and play lol
Max Miller
2024-11-28 16:41:25 +0000 UTCOh nice pick! Yeah this one def stands out as a fun pick. I really like how Max the bullet stream from the player is. I think the best possible scenario with a game like this is if it becomes a fan fav, maybe the og dev will do a spin off game. But then if he does, would anyone pay attention and transfer over? That would be something I would love to see if it would work
The Electric Underground
2024-11-28 16:32:36 +0000 UTCThe game I'd personally choose as UFO 50's "The Game" is Sunset Drive. Though I think it was developed with the intention of "The Game" being Campanella
Max Miller
2024-11-28 14:40:28 +0000 UTCOh yes we absolutely talk about this :-) you ll love the ep
The Electric Underground
2024-11-28 07:53:25 +0000 UTCI don’t know if you guys end up talking about this, and I will absolutely listen to the whole podcast, but I feel like UFO 50 and other concepts like it just end up cheapening retro design. They make it seem like these games are novelties, and are only worth your money when you package other games with them. Not to mention that the games themselves lack depth and replayability, which is especially prevalent in the genres that the developers clearly aren’t as experienced in- like shmups. Anyways, I’m glad you and bog covered this game as I wanted to hear your guys thoughts and criticisms. Happy Thanksgiving btw!
Chase Palumbo
2024-11-28 07:51:24 +0000 UTCExactly my dude! I have that same relationship with PS1 FF as well, and I never played them lol. I was just surrounded by them and they connect back to that time in my life. Also yeah bigness is the go to play book with modern games, and now I do think we will see it spreding to retro indie soon enough alas
The Electric Underground
2024-11-28 07:34:14 +0000 UTCBigness... I feel nostalgia for majora's mask as well, even though I never played it before or even had an N64. It's just too easy though, same with all the switch games I thought would be good, like Metroid Dread. I get tempted by bigness, but it's mostly fat. Opposite of ketsui, never played a game that is so possible, but so difficult. Gorgeous.
HPPrinter
2024-11-28 07:32:06 +0000 UTCGood man, now enjoy getting lit ha!
The Electric Underground
2024-11-28 06:49:27 +0000 UTCYeah I Ubered tonight don't worry. Here's to you and Boghog and Armed Decobot in 2025!
Spaghedward1
2024-11-28 04:26:47 +0000 UTCHa WILD! I'm going to assume that's a joke and wish you a happy and safe thanksgiving :-)
The Electric Underground
2024-11-28 04:25:08 +0000 UTCYeah this is some classic TEU podcasting ha, got bog on deck and we're getting real nerdy
The Electric Underground
2024-11-28 04:24:04 +0000 UTCPhilosophically speaking playing SCHMUPs has made me a better drunk driver. Happy thanksgiving!!!!
Spaghedward1
2024-11-28 04:15:04 +0000 UTCOooh....now we're cooking.
Christopher Ladd
2024-11-28 03:57:25 +0000 UTC
