What Makes A Player HARDCORE? Patron Podcast
Added 2023-05-30 16:28:59 +0000 UTCToday is quiet an episode ha. I do karaoke, talk about my emo highschool "band." discuss the importance of grinding shmups for connecting with the genre, and answer the deep philosophical question ... what makes a player HARDCORE!
Comments
Whoa, thanks for the heads up! I totally missed that one!
NeonDaggerGames
2023-06-21 03:24:34 +0000 UTCYo NeonDaggerGames, Mark did podcast episode XVII (17) with Prometheus! Of course, a follow-up podcast or interview would be more than welcome!
Arcade Hell
2023-06-20 20:59:52 +0000 UTCFantastic comment kreigor! and to add onto what you are saying, I think a lot of reviewers also don't understand principals of player motivation and balance. Like the discussion Bog and I had in Elden Ring about circle strafing with the horse. Bog pointed out that once you realize that circle strafing with the horse is OP, then that kind of killed the meta for him because the right answer was to always circle strafe. On my end, I didn't mind that as much because I like circle strafing on the horse and that does feel like the naturally correct strategy of horseback combat, but that aspect of centralizing strategies and balance is almost never commented on. The summons in bayo 3 is another. Where people would say to me, oh just don't use the summons then. But if the summons are OP, I should obviously use them, even if I don't want to. This build your own challenge style of design just does not work for action games.
The Electric Underground
2023-06-05 15:23:01 +0000 UTCThe way I play arcade style games has (almost) never changed over the years. Trying to get as far as I can with my credit (usually in the lowest difficulty setting at first though) and when I lose, I retry from the beginning. Discovering what's beyond my last game over is my goal and reward, and it's what keeps me playing a game, as long as it entertains me. What has changed is that, now, YouTube helps me get through certain portions, almost always bosses because they often require tedious strats. So I spoil myself that way. Sometimes I just watch a 1CC vid to the end, to give me a good idea of what lies beyond and at least one of the ways to go that far, but I don't credit feed for the same result, so to keep that incentive to go back and improve, and also because I feel you cannot experience a game properly that way. You'll have no knowledge of how it's supposed to be played, how fun or unfun it is when played properly etc. Most of arcade games' reviews are done by people who credit feed and I feel it leads them to see these games in a very different light. They favor atmosphere, artistic direction, soundtracks... which are important but battle design, enemy design, balance, move synergy, stuff like that are not considered at all. Gameplay must be intuitive and favors freedom, with lots of moves/weapons that don't need to be balanced or lead sweetly to one another because this exhaustivity is only there to help the players do cool stuff during their one-hour disposable experience.
Kriegor
2023-06-05 09:01:43 +0000 UTCWhat a fantastic comment Jake! Yes exactly just sinking in hours of passively playing BOTW is not the same as spending hours (even less hours) actively thinking about and engaging in a game's design. I think when you start to see the frameworks of how the game works and then internalize that to the point where you see the game in things outside of itself, I think that is the crossing point when a player becomes hardcore :-)
The Electric Underground
2023-06-03 20:43:42 +0000 UTCI'd say some simple aspects of a "hardcore" player would be playing with a goal in mind, seeking improvement, and playing through frustration. Like I'll play breath of the wild and beat it just like every other zelda game, but that doesn't make me a hardcore zelda player, if such a thing exists. Zelda is like a pleasant stroll through the woods, shmups, played earnestly, are more like running mile splits with a goal. Relates to your music analogy as well. So many incredible albums are very challenging initially, gotta stick it out. Ive mulled over reviewing music, but then I see how much material these critics need to blow through every week and I know I would start to resent not putting in the time they deserve. So I guess I agree that keeping up with new releases does not make one hardcore.
Jake G
2023-06-02 17:42:09 +0000 UTCI was just thinking about Prometheus. In fact, as I was writing that he popped into my mind because of kind of what you said, but also how reading his "Full Extent of the Jam" inspired me to go further and actually really get into Guwange of all things. Really inspired me early on. If you could snag an interview with him, that would be pretty amazing to see. I'd have to think there are some euro shmuppers who watch your channel who could help track him down.
NeonDaggerGames
2023-06-01 23:25:45 +0000 UTCyes I think the most "in it'" you are when it comes to an activity, is during that grind period where you are just on the verge of getting good, like you pointed out! Very good observation. Because the other half of the story is all the insanely talented super players that became disengaged and just drifted away from the genre. Two big examples of this that stick out in my mind are Prometheus and Pazzy, both were massive talents who seemed to understand the genre naturally, and both disappeared sort of suddenly. So yes I love this point you make about how engagement makes you hardcore because yes, it's not just talent alone.
The Electric Underground
2023-06-01 22:51:46 +0000 UTCI'm always inspired by people who are at the cusp of being good at something but not fully there. That's like the most hardcore point you could be at IMO. Because eventually you can almost get lazy and fall back on your honed skills to take you most of the way. But in those earlier points, when you're still developing your skills, you don't have anything to fall back on and you just have to grind it out with pure determination, no safety net. Like if I saw a kid trying to slam dunk after tons of attempts I'd probably get more amped up seeing him get it than a 7' pro do it like it's nothing. I always use those examples in my own life. Like when you did the 2-ALL in DDP, I still think about that as an example. Everyone totally wrote you off and considered it an impossible task, and to me it's like, no, Mark's theorem states you only have to be a fuckin maniac and not a pre-ordained autistic shmup hero maniac to get a 2-ALL. It's a proof now, bitches! On that note, I'm pretty much a lifer now with shmups. But I really go through huge gaps where I don't touch anything. Maybe it's the nature of my work or the cognitive demand the games I'm into require, but I just don't have a lot of energy for it very often. I even fired up Retroach a couple of weeks ago because I was scared that maybe my skills totally went to shit in the most recent dry spell. Touch and go for a bit but got my intended relief... and promptly put the stick back where it's been all year.
NeonDaggerGames
2023-06-01 02:45:44 +0000 UTCHa that is an awesome option select, but I think the answer is actually much simpler than people realize, at least in my opinion :-)
The Electric Underground
2023-05-30 18:47:10 +0000 UTCOooh new podcast! Haven't listened yet so I don't know the answer to the quiz on this yet. I think there's two answers to this one, the civilian answer on the one hand, and the actual hardcore answer on the other. With the civilian answer being whatever civilians think hardcore is, and the actual hardcore answer being what the actual community thinks is hardcore. I'm probably a hardcore shmupper to civilians, but in the community I feel like I'm merely just a regular shmupper and even then I'm more on the casual side to boot
RiffMason
2023-05-30 18:19:48 +0000 UTC
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