An Argument In The Edit Bay
Added 2024-12-19 20:45:32 +0000 UTCHey Patreon,
We're hard at work on the next episode here at Climate Town HQ, but last week when we were feverishly editing the Free Returns episode, Climate Town co-writer/director Matt Nelsen and I had a serious disagreement about the inclusion of a clip. The clip in question was from the TV Show Love Is Blind, and we desperately need you brave patreon souls to decide who is right. Give it a watch if you have a few minutes to spare.
All my best,
Rollie and the Climate Town Team
Comments
"...breaking of the FIFTH wall..." 💀💀💀
Brett Chandler
2025-02-01 19:29:37 +0000 UTCI can't believe you made me watch that video, but here's Andrew's point of view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBRhZGEnjLs&ab_channel=TinyTalks Was he aware he was being filmed? Yes, but based on what he says just before and after the eyedrop moment, and in his TinyTalks (hours of shooting, he correctly assumed they wouldn’t use ALL of it), he (naively and drunkenly) didn’t think that particular moment would make it into the final edit. Fair game or not? (in the name of entertainment) Yes? But the producers deliberately chose to break the fifth wall for him, while not doing the same for the other participants, fully aware it would create a little media buzz around him. Was he naïve to trust the editor/producer? Yes. They did him dirty, but it’s fair game. BOTH OF YOU ARE RIGHT??? I dunno guys lol (hope you're not still in the edit bay by now...)
Babeth
2025-01-22 20:32:16 +0000 UTCI thought it was funny after Rollie explained it, but I have never watched Love is Blind so I really didn't get the joke. When I see the clip of just a guy putting in eyedrops being interviewed I don't really know why he's doing it or what's supposed to be happening in the show at that time, and also how are eyedrops supposed to help you trick someone into marrying you?
Jim Lynch
2025-01-18 18:52:27 +0000 UTCTeam Matt. This was not a documentary where the relationship with the editor would be purer. This was reality TV, which exists only because of controversy. Any reality TV participant that doesn't know that going into it has never watched reality TV. Sorry, Rollie.
Matt
2025-01-16 20:55:23 +0000 UTCI would have trusted you more about this if you were crying while filming this.
The Green Way
2024-12-28 17:43:46 +0000 UTCYeah, I liked the inclusion of the clip, you weren't endorsing that move by any means and it certainly helped you drive home your point. It was certainly jaring though. Making arguments with viral clips is always fundamentally fraught, but seeing how it is your MO, not sure how you pull away from that.
Brett Goldsmith
2024-12-28 04:35:28 +0000 UTCTeam Matt. I would like to think that most people know those shows are bogus. I think the showing of the fake tears is actually having a Streisand effect. It got everyone talking about it and thus increasing the exposure. Reality TV is played out, and I bet the producers were willing to do anything to get more eyes on their show. Full stop.
Andy Gott
2024-12-24 04:47:55 +0000 UTCas far as we know this entire thing may have been planned and scripted, just like the eyedrop scene may have indeed been scripted for engagement for interest. ceci nest pas une pipe. the show must go on even if the that means the show can't go on? team matt
Yangmun Choi
2024-12-23 07:20:45 +0000 UTCMatt is not wrong
Josh Sohn
2024-12-22 16:27:45 +0000 UTCTeam Rollie. The guy is being fake for the camera, which is usually cut out.
Owen
2024-12-21 22:26:15 +0000 UTCTeam Rollie!! Of course he thought they'd edit it out.
Teresa Matthys
2024-12-21 21:14:56 +0000 UTCThis is just the same as agreeing with Rollie.
Rob
2024-12-21 17:42:35 +0000 UTCI'm going to have to go Team Matt. I'm personally shocked I'm not on Team Rollie (as I always am team Rollie), but Rollie took a bad position. Anything is 100% fair game on a reality show.
Clayton Summers
2024-12-21 12:57:41 +0000 UTCThis is not caught by some hidden camera behind a fake mirror. He knew how this would look. The editors did exactly what he wanted. He is going for the reaction gif and outraged shares.
Martin Ahnelöv
2024-12-20 17:11:21 +0000 UTCTeam Rollie!! He’s trying to give them what they want and they just have their fun with him? Take a lesson contestants!
James Michael Nichols
2024-12-20 17:03:30 +0000 UTCI gotta support Team Rollie on this one, in his (fake tears) cry for help.
Ronan O'Donnachu
2024-12-20 15:43:21 +0000 UTCgotta go w/ Matt on this one. tho, just to say, i thought the love is blind guy was putting in drops b/c his eyes were just dry
Kevin Shlosberg
2024-12-20 14:43:56 +0000 UTCTeam Matt. Do I need to justify? Really? 😛
Jeffrey Belt
2024-12-20 14:42:02 +0000 UTCI want to believe in the good of people, so team Rollie
Armenian Billygoat
2024-12-20 13:37:40 +0000 UTCTeam Rollie, we all know reality TV is somewhat scripted, you can't throw one of your participants under the bus for giving you a performance
Matt
2024-12-20 12:16:47 +0000 UTCLiterally only listened to that part of the Final Cut and I sincerely was just aghast at his statement “I never thought I could care for someone who could bring me to tears.” Now that I see what tf he said before that?! Oh my god. IMO , he knew the cameras were rolling, he didn’t say “cut this” he even says “wait” as though saying, check this out, therefore, kind of wants us all to join him in his joke in thinking that he could ever care for someone who could bring him to tears.”
Chelsea Shurmantine
2024-12-20 05:42:24 +0000 UTCSorry Rollie, you're out of your mind.
Jeff Frank
2024-12-20 04:06:06 +0000 UTCTeam Matt. Wall-breaking stunt, but excellent reality television!
Nick
2024-12-20 03:51:21 +0000 UTCJustice for Eye Drops Guy
Michael Poirier
2024-12-20 03:14:39 +0000 UTCThe eye drops were absolutely a stunt and even if not, it should be well understood that any footage of you in front of a rolling camera can be used. I'm with Matt on this one
Kat
2024-12-20 02:23:37 +0000 UTCAs someone who gave up on television in the late 70's after reading 'Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television', that eyedrops clip was bewildering to me. Having not watched *ANY* reality TV, I do not even understand the point of the argument Matt and Rollie are having and am not sure I want to invest too much time in unraveling it.
Chris Florkowski
2024-12-20 02:10:15 +0000 UTC100% a violation of the pact.
crowbahr
2024-12-20 01:58:22 +0000 UTCHonestly I could not figure out the point of that clip. I have never watched love is blind and always assume reality TV is fake anyway. I mean look at the Apprentice
Connie Lentz
2024-12-20 01:56:19 +0000 UTCIn the suckiness that is democracy, I uninformedly side with Team Matt. I'm sure there are experts of reality TV and production theory that could really help inform my decision... but, experts are kind of, like, eh right now.
Luke Gliddon
2024-12-20 01:29:33 +0000 UTCNever seen the show, but the clip is pretty epic, regardless. Wow, yes, I see why you make 5 episodes a year. Good luck with all this! LOL!
Jonathan Korb
2024-12-20 00:18:52 +0000 UTCDefinitely team Matt. Look at the way the guy smugly smiles at the camera while administering the drops. He's totally in on it and knows it would make great TV and is daring the editors to leave it in. Perhaps one could generously imagine a world where the editors leave it in as a nod to the absurdity of reality TV, or maybe as a cry for help.
Ridwan Farouki
2024-12-20 00:10:40 +0000 UTCMatt is the clear winner here--reality TV has no rules. Plus that clip was genius and was a great add to the video. Plus anyone who fancies themselves a savvy media whore (i.e. every reality tv contestant ever) should know that anything they do in front of a camera, even if "it's not rolling," is fair game for including in the final cut.
Josh Garrett
2024-12-20 00:03:49 +0000 UTCI hate to do this, but I am forming a third team. My position is that the producers are heinous, as Rollie suggests, for breaking the fifth, sixth and seventh walls in this edit. As Matt suggests, the contestant should have known that EVERYTHING can be used. However, I would hold that the contestants can only be accountable for this knowledge when they are signing up for the show. Once they go on the show, and the producers are sleep-depriving and food-depriving them, they lose their ability to think rationally and we can't expect them to make good decisions. I know Andrew seems like he is ruefully leaning into this, but I suspect that all these contestants are fundamentally impaired and hangry on top of whatever psychological baggage they brought in at the beginning. And for that reason, I am team Ryan - I think Andrew's greatest crime is, like all the contestants, signing up for the show. And I think the producers are heinous for exposing the reality behind the reality. 200% guilt. Both parties fully guilty. But with a slight caveat that the contestant's crime happened off camera when they signed up for the show -- not on camera when they are hangry. I arrest my case, and cede my remaining time to the Climate Town team who just wants to go home and see their families.
Ryan O'Connell
2024-12-19 23:44:05 +0000 UTCTeam Rollie 💯
Timbuk295
2024-12-19 23:23:53 +0000 UTCYou both make some sense to me..."Reality tv" is often exploitative (and there are some interesting lawsuits and documentaries about people who feel abused by them) The tv industry and maybe we the public consumers of this exploitation share some difficult to part of the responsibility when there is another public humiliation of some kind. Some participants may be making a decision to participate being of sound mind at the time and having informed-consent about what they're agreeing to, and apparently for some that is less true based on what they report afterwards. I cannot stomach it. It feels like bullying. I know to much about how it hurts people. I recommend you check out contrapoints video on "cringe". (Office homework? 😊) Love to you!
B
2024-12-19 23:10:53 +0000 UTCI think that they TOLD him to do it on camera. I don't think they were fucking him over. I think that they all knew this would be incredible content.
B Cavello
2024-12-19 23:04:54 +0000 UTCIt depends if he brought his *own* eyedrops or they were supplied by the producer. But I'm guessing he brought his own, in which case I'm team Matt.
Paul Baker
2024-12-19 22:46:03 +0000 UTCTeam matt i fear. He's on camera manipulating vs off camera. Should be put on blast for that
Michaella Owens
2024-12-19 22:43:10 +0000 UTCI think reality TV in general represents an extreme in exploiting labor for the purposes of entertainment so I'm not personally a fan. As such I'm not entirely sure I understand the argument, but I think even if the dude should have had every expectation that he was going to be exploited and they'd be portraying him in the worst possible light, the fact is that he was still exploited.
Jason Becker
2024-12-19 22:40:20 +0000 UTCRollie 100%
The Smalls
2024-12-19 22:39:16 +0000 UTCAs a long time reality tv show watcher I actually think they’re both right. *normally* there is the expectation that the producers won’t break the 5th wall but there is always the exception of if it will make great tv and paint the narrative they want (or that they know the fans want). He probably asked them if they would keep it in and they probably said no, then they realized that it would help to paint him as an insane villain and drive their ratings up. Technically the producers didn’t break any rules because reality tv producers don’t live by a code or morals
Kaya
2024-12-19 22:25:02 +0000 UTCTo Andrew (homie in the clip): Gotta keep your guard up, man. Don't trust the man, man. To Climate Town: I think on this one, I have to side with leaving it out. After doing a quick search on the clip, Andrew didn't come across as too thrilled about it. I mean, he shouldn't have put himself in that position, but that doesn't mean he needs to get blown up like that. If someone accidentally sends a promiscuous photo of themselves to the wrong person, is it receiver's responsibility to blast it to everyone in their contact list? And the sender is just up a creek and should accept their date? "Well, they should've known better than to do that!" You're right, but people make mistakes. One person or party's mistake shouldn't give another person or party carte blanche to do whatever they want to exploit it. Decency should still exist, even if it's "understood" that you can't trust anyone and need to keep on your toes at all times. So as far as the reasoning behind the argument, I think both sides have merit, but as far as whether the clip should be further blasted out there, I have to say I don't think that it should be. Here's a puppy for reading all the way to the end. 🐕
Steele Flemming
2024-12-19 22:16:07 +0000 UTCteam matt -- sorry rollie.....
darilyn kotzenberg
2024-12-19 21:56:50 +0000 UTCTeam Matt. You don't get on a reality show expecting to be only shown in a good light. In fact you'd expect the opposite.
Fuat Baran
2024-12-19 21:48:24 +0000 UTCRollie is making his argument as if he was both the contestant and the editor of the video. Matt acknowledges that the contestant is not the editor. Rollie argues in good faith, assuming the shows editors and creators should have done the same. Matt understands that the show editors only care about how entertaining the contestant is, and has no regard for anything else about the contestant. Rollie, my sweet summer child, Matt is bitter and hurt and crying out for help, but he's right.
Tobias Ewing
2024-12-19 21:35:39 +0000 UTCYou are right, this _is_ entertaining.
dreamer
2024-12-19 21:30:23 +0000 UTCHate to go against Rollie on this - but reality TV show contestants should all know by now that the editor is going to do whatever it takes to make the edit more watchable. This guy was probably not very interesting in general and this was the best thing the editors could do to pull something entertaining and watchable out of his lukewarm performance. Plus, I feel like this makes a boring cookie cutter reality TV show into something more like a critique of reality TV - just for one moment. That's kind of punk rock of the editors to do.
Mike Southworth
2024-12-19 21:27:34 +0000 UTCrollie is right to include it, but for the wrong reasons, Matt is 100% correct about the editors of reality tv LOVING clips like that
Zack Hoffman
2024-12-19 21:25:32 +0000 UTCI feel it's important to weigh in on this super important issue. People will do anything for attention, which includes both the show and the actor(?). Since they both get positive and negative from this stunt, they are both right and wrong. Team neither.
PORTAC
2024-12-19 21:22:57 +0000 UTCI think Rollie is right that the dude assumed it would be edited out but still just an A+ move by the editors for keeping it in. But then again I had never even heard of this show before seeing this clip.
Casey Lantz
2024-12-19 21:21:52 +0000 UTCIs this guy the sociopath for faking tears as part of a "reality" show narrative or are we the sociopaths for creating this entire genre and actively participating in it's continued success?
Pull up the roots
2024-12-19 21:20:19 +0000 UTCI think the Love is Blind editors have egg on their face for showing the contestant put eyedrops on his!
Ronnie Watkins
2024-12-19 21:18:15 +0000 UTCRollie is right. Major break in protocol. They did him dirty, but also there's this new wave of reality shows acknowledging their fakity-fakeness and the fact that it's a TV show being part of the drama (see last season/episode of Vanderpump).
Marye Phillips
2024-12-19 21:15:42 +0000 UTCUnfortunately Rollie, I have to say I'm team Matt here. The show didn't break any rules, it falls in the same category of anything they say or do… all is fair and the contestants should know better.
Juan Serra
2024-12-19 21:14:39 +0000 UTCRollie is correct, 5th wall breaking is a violation. Matt is correct, within the format, expect violation. That's not pretty, that's not nice, I stand with Rollie, and having principles sucks for us. So I'm team Rollie, and Matt is right, because dystopia. But also... the whole thing with Climate Town is Principles vs Dystopia. So in this room, while Matt is correct, Matt is also basically an apologist for climate denial by siding with "it's a dystopia, what do you expect". So Matt is by extension of his position a shill for big oil. Probably. Just saying....
Brian Makepeace
2024-12-19 21:14:39 +0000 UTCI hold the apparently controversial opinion that he put the eye drops in as a gag, hoping they'd keep it in. Also: editing bay? More like editing bae - couple of gorgeous boys right there, damn.
Reginald Excellent
2024-12-19 21:12:41 +0000 UTCKeep - “trying to trick each other…” you said it yourself.
Jennifer Oldham
2024-12-19 21:08:53 +0000 UTCI side with Rollie on this one. And I'd be more than happy to disagree with Rollie if he's wrong. That dude trusted the editors, and the editors did him dirty.
Rob
2024-12-19 21:07:50 +0000 UTCTeam Matt on this one. If you're in front of a camera then you are being recorded... Arguably the show got way more of a "good show" from the virality of this clip too.
Nathan Browning
2024-12-19 21:05:37 +0000 UTCMatt definitely. It’s like talking to a reporter and assuming something is off record W/OUT saying “this is off the record.”
Dan
2024-12-19 21:05:18 +0000 UTCBoth are right, of course.
Christoph Hipp
2024-12-19 21:05:10 +0000 UTCThe kayfabe of reality tv relies on the audience not being abruptly reminded that they're watching a heavily produced show. That segment basically goes "hey audience, here's one of the ways we fake things to make it more fun to watch" which yes breaks the fifth wall cause I can't imagine he wanted that clip shown, but also breaks the fourth wall in the process and feels like something that was supposed to be cut
LimaBeen
2024-12-19 21:02:58 +0000 UTCGotta go with Team Matt here. And it's not just because I'm a fellow Matt.
Matt Leacock
2024-12-19 21:01:59 +0000 UTCGotta go with Matt here. Is it really a dirty move if it's funny?
Nick Wilcox
2024-12-19 21:01:21 +0000 UTCI’m done with reality TV, but when I used to watch it, there would be at least 1 - 2 “5th world” dimensions broken per season. Point is, this garbage fire of a man knew they’d possibly air the eye drop thing. You’re both right. Keep the clip in pls 👀
Courtney
2024-12-19 21:00:48 +0000 UTCTeam Matt! The shows already are edited to tell a bs narrative, regardless of reality. This is an artful editing decision. Also anything that displays the fakeness overtly is a win. Maybe with more evidence I can convince my wife to stop watching this slop.
Austin Cary
2024-12-19 20:58:12 +0000 UTCNever seen the reality show, but if the editors never included a clip like this in the final edit before then the contestant could reasonably believe that clip would not be shown, and Rollie would be right. But if they had included clips like this before, then Matt would be right that the contestant should have been more discrete.
C
2024-12-19 20:55:43 +0000 UTCObviously he expected it to be cut out given the "hang on" and the smile at the camera after putting in the eye drops. But really anyone on a reality TV show should expect that any footage captured of them could be used in the final edit and that the editors will intentionally edit in drama. I think I'm with Matt on this one.
Ren
2024-12-19 20:55:16 +0000 UTCRollie, I love ya, but I'm with Matt on this one. Even for reality TV, that show is unhinged, and the editors were totally justified showing it
Alex Albrecht
2024-12-19 20:54:57 +0000 UTCMy head tells me Matt is right but my heart is saying Rollie is right. I don't think that helps solve anything though.
Felix Lasselle
2024-12-19 20:53:45 +0000 UTCI vote for Rollie
Tea
2024-12-19 20:52:29 +0000 UTCMatt's right, if that guy didn't think they'd show it, he wouldn't put the eye drops in right in front of camera one.
Yossarian
2024-12-19 20:52:09 +0000 UTCTeam Rollie
John Orr
2024-12-19 20:51:07 +0000 UTC#Matt
tomáš jedno
2024-12-19 20:50:46 +0000 UTC
