Patreon is changing how subscriptions work, here's the deal:
Added 2024-08-12 16:41:24 +0000 UTCTL,DR: Patreon is getting rid of Per-Creation subscriptions next year (2025), so we'll have to re-do our tiers on a Per-Month subscription. We'd like your input.
Hi everyone, you might have gotten a note from Patreon that they're changing their payment system. Long story short, Apple is forcibly implementing new payment terms, with the result that Patreon has to switch all per-creation subscriptions to per-month subscriptions by the end of next year. Oh no, that's us! D:
We've had our page on per-creation since the very beginning in 2017, and we really like it that way because you only pay us when we make a video for you. When, say, we take two weeks off each January, you get charged less in that month. It keeps us on our weekly schedule and ensures you always get what you pay for.
It was a system that served this community for years, but such is the internet under the tech giants. By the end of next year, Patreon will switch all the remaining per-creation pages into per-month, so we'll have to adjust our tiers in a couple ways. We usually put out four videos a month – meaning most of you get charged (your tier)x4 per month – and that means the most likely thing we'll have to do to compensate for the change in format is adjust up the tier costs up by a factor of four, but we're very open to suggestions at this stage.
So right now we'd like to hear from YOU.
We want to make a tier system that doesn't suck, so we'd like your input on what you'd like to see –
Do you enjoy the current tier rewards?
Is there anything we don't offer that you wish we did?
Do specific tier rewards make a difference to your pledge?
Do you feel like you're getting a good value for the price of your pledge?
Any feedback will be helpful as we plan this out. We'll plan this carefully and telegraph any big changes far ahead of time, but since Apple has forced everyone's hand, we might as well start planning now.
As ever, thank you all for your generous support of our art. It's meant the world to us since we launched this page, and it will continue to be the channel's #1 support pillar in the future.
-R&B
Comments
Farscape was indeed a fantastic show! We interacted a bit in the online spaces of the fandom back in the day when I still used my real name online. Although after more than twenty years I can't remember what spaces those were. The internet has changed a lot since then! Good to see that you're still kicking.
The Narrator
2024-08-14 19:52:19 +0000 UTCMy problem was you guys were TOO productive, my bank account couldn't keep up and I had to drop my sub level, which made me feel guilty because I love what y'all do. The new billing plan might let me raise my tier again and keep supporting you at the level to which my conscience has become accustomed. As for you guys, take those damn breaks when you need them. Life happens and self care is important.
Curt Clark
2024-08-13 16:43:57 +0000 UTCI'm going to be blunt I'm a buck a video because I could not afford £20 a month so teir two was too expensive. I would happily stay at a tier 1 of £5 a month even for the "short months" cos some months have 5 Fridays and in those I would get a "free" video. Having said all that I'm not against a little more for the same product
The Yaki
2024-08-13 11:32:46 +0000 UTCI'm fine with a fixed monthly fee, but I have the income to be flexible. Rewards are less important to me; I pick tiers based on what I can afford on a long-term basis Echoing what others have said: Paid vacations are important! But I get how some patreons may feel pinched if they pay for a month and get very little. I think you'd be best offering a few tiers at a wide range - something as low as $1/month so people can show support without financial pressure, and give one nice perk to even the lowest tier so everyone feels rewarded.
LiannaBlanca
2024-08-13 07:40:23 +0000 UTCI was. Aeryn and Jool were awesome, and Pilot was the most loyal friend anyone real or otherwise could've asked for.
Anthony Docimo
2024-08-13 07:40:23 +0000 UTCYour name seems familiar. Were you perhaps in the Farscape fandom back in the day?
The Narrator
2024-08-13 07:33:24 +0000 UTCI'm fine with going to a monthly payment plan. That's what nearly every other Patreon creator I follow is already doing anyway. (There's even one that lets me pay for the whole year in advance in exchange for a small discount.) If you guys take a few weeks off around the holidays or whatnot, I'm not going to be upset. As far as what I want to get as a patron, the main thing that I look for is bonus content, especially for podcasts, since I'm always hunting for more stuff to listen to while working, so I already consider the After After Show Show enough to justify the cost, but if there were more of that sort of content, I'd be here for it.
The Narrator
2024-08-13 07:30:18 +0000 UTCI came here to write the exact same comment 👍
Katharina
2024-08-13 06:14:40 +0000 UTCI did not. that's great
Sam Fisher
2024-08-12 22:25:08 +0000 UTCAre you aware that you can set a limit? You can pick a tier and choose to pay for up to a set number of creations. In your case, you can set the number at four, so you'll never be charged more than $20. (You could also increase to the $10 tier and set the cap at 2 for the same cost.)
Kenna
2024-08-12 22:23:36 +0000 UTCThat being said, I'm reading the other commentary, and I didn't realize folks can cap at less than four videos to keep their costs manageable. If I knew that, I actually might have chosen a higher tier. I'd also be more tempted to take a leap from $4 to $10 than one from $4 to $20 for those wallpapers. Perhaps it would be better to have smaller increases between tiers, splitting some of the rewards into other tiers, instead? E.g. maybe a $1 tier for announcements and newsletters only, $4 for the AASS, etc.
Cutekitty
2024-08-12 22:05:50 +0000 UTCWith the current system, you can set a monthly limit for how many videos/creations you want to pay for. So for the time being, you can just go to your membership settings and set your limit to 1 time per month, and then you would just be paying 5 dollars a month for all the perks on that tier, like you intended.
Trine Lise Andersen
2024-08-12 22:04:21 +0000 UTC@Fletcher, except you can cap the donations at a certain number of videos, so not everyone has been paying the weekly cost times four.
Trine Lise Andersen
2024-08-12 21:56:02 +0000 UTCJust to clarify: right now, the lowest tier is $1 per video, which usually works out to $4 per month but is $2 in January, and after this proposed change, it would always be a flat $4 per month, i.e. the same cost per video as before most of the time except for the funky month where you take a well-deserved break? That's A-OK by me. I actually prefer the predictability. I guess the caveat is that I'm higher-income and wouldn't feel the impact of a few dollars' difference. Truthfully, I'm also here for the AASS. It's nice to have that background chatter when I'm doing dishes or laundry. I can let my attention drift in and out without getting disoriented, and you always sound like you're having a good time. C: I like reading your seasonal updates too, though!
Cutekitty
2024-08-12 21:52:03 +0000 UTCI really enjoy everything I'm getting here. I admit I miss things like Red's song of the philosophers - that was awesome fun to listen to - but otherwise there's nothing I'd change about the channel.
Anthony Docimo
2024-08-12 21:10:08 +0000 UTCHonestly when I signed up I misread and thought it was 1$/month already, because I didn't realize there was a $/upload format that patreon used. I was surprised a few months later when I looked at my patreon bill and it showed $4, but once I realized my mixup, I didn't leave the patreon because the cost wasn't a big deal to me at that amount anyways. If the tier simply becomes $4/month, I won't mind. If the lowest tier is instead $5/month, I might be irked, but if it instead ends up cheaper than $4/month, I'll probably still pay at the lowest tier no matter what. I'm here for the AASS more than anything else anyways.
Shortstop
2024-08-12 20:52:09 +0000 UTCI think I’d be happy shifting from per video to per month, and I don’t see any problem with you getting money when you don’t make videos. Perhaps a range of intermediate tiers - or at least a $1 per month slot - might do to help people who’ve been doing fewer than four videos a month?
John Bate
2024-08-12 20:40:06 +0000 UTCI think you and I are saying the same thing, just looking at it differently. So right now, I can pay $5/week for a total of $20/mo. That means if they increase the $5 tier level to the monthly cost, that's now the $20 tier level. It also means they would no longer have a $5 tier level.
Kenna
2024-08-12 20:31:50 +0000 UTCThey meant multiplying the weekly cost by four to get the monthly cost. So for months with four weeks, people would pay the same total amount they pay now.
Fletcher Smith
2024-08-12 20:26:39 +0000 UTCI also have no problem if you like go on vac and don't release anything.
yamiangie
2024-08-12 20:08:23 +0000 UTCOk so I'm on the $1 a video and have no issues if this turns into a $5 a month tier, that's my suporting a person sweet spot. I'm hear to get the ospod and extra merch access and well suport you guys. On that note I'd buy the #1 great sage equal to heaven mug if it came back or the #1 Vacation spot for Pele.
yamiangie
2024-08-12 20:04:49 +0000 UTCAt the moment, I'd have a hard time sustaining a jump from the equivalent of $4/month (tier 1) to $20/month (current tier 2), but I wouldn't have any issue going from $4 to $5-7, possibly even $10. I second everyone who's already mentioned "paid vacations" (your worth even as a channel, and certainly as people, isn't in constant productivity) and wanting to support what you do without necessarily needing to have a say in what it is. As for perks... I don't care about them much, and I mean that broadly; so few creators I support offer tier perks I value, that I can't even make any suggestions. The only time I choose a Patreon/Kickstarter support tier specifically for a reward is when that reward is a finished physical product (book, invention, etc.). The only thing I can think of that might alter an OSP tier choice going forward would be the opportunity to commission a topic. If the lowest support level after the restructuring doesn't have any rewards, I honestly am not likely to miss them. My best "perks" have been A) Red's BotW/TotK streams, and B) knowing you guys are using your platform to be unapologetic voices for acceptance, humanity, and change instead of whatever rat-race survival job would sap you of the energy for that. I don't care how the restructuring ends up as long as you guys don't either burn out or have to quit to make ends meet!
Cat DeMira
2024-08-12 19:04:27 +0000 UTCI would love to be in 5 man band but when there's a month that has 5 Fridays, that means I'm going to be paying $25 for that month. That's too rich for my blood. A lower flat rate would just feel more accessible.
Sam Fisher
2024-08-12 18:57:59 +0000 UTCAfter reading through all of the comments, I have a couple of additional thoughts. 1) I disagree with creating a lowest tier just for the AASS, because that would essentially penalize people who can only contribute $1 a month but only watch the videos. 2) Multiplying your tiers by 4 takes them from 1/5/10/25 to 4/20/40/100, which feels a bit icky on the capitalism + your-audience-is-largely-financially-struggling side. I can see *adding* $50 and $100 "if you want to contribute more, then thank you" tiers. I will tell you that creators whose lowest tier is $4 (and there are far too many) are always the first creators I drop if I hit a rough patch financially.
Kenna
2024-08-12 18:45:24 +0000 UTCI have my subscription capped, and it sounds like many others do too, so instead of multiplying everything by 4 because you usually make 4 videos a month, you may want to multiply it by 2 or 3 and set the tiers that way. That also means that if something comes up and you can’t do 4 videos in a month, you don’t feel so guilty. One channel I follow is forever switching to “not charging for this month” because they feel if they only do 90% of what they think they should, then it isn’t fair to their patrons (even if it is totally okay and there’s many months they go overboard with content). You can also add more tier levels without increased rewards, since many people I know subscribe at higher tiers on other channels, even when that doesn’t give extra perks. They just like supporting certain creators, and I’m very sure some of your patrons feel that way.
Courtney Rayle
2024-08-12 18:40:02 +0000 UTCI really like the image downloads from the videos.
Yukiarashi
2024-08-12 18:36:33 +0000 UTCWhen I realized that $10/vid became $40/mo, or I could jump to $25/vid and cap it at 1 per month for additional perks, the current tier structure felt a bit broken. I feel like this will end up being a positive change on the patron side, because tier rewards will be fairer. As for me, I've recently dropped down to $5, capped at 1 video for personal finance reasons. I've never been super invested in tier rewards (I keep forgetting that there's a merch store discount code, which I could have used like 12 times by now). You guys make great videos, your podcasts have gotten me through some absolutely hellish days, and I'm really just here to say thanks.
Kenna
2024-08-12 18:29:41 +0000 UTCI live in limbo so $5 a month as a tier makes no difference. I pay to help support you guys as the content you produce makes it all worth it without all the additional stuff.
Jordan Ring
2024-08-12 18:24:06 +0000 UTCI am here mostly to throw a few bucks your way, I don't actually do anything with any perks that might give me (I don't even know if there *are* any). Monthly tiers that are x4 seem fine to me. I would be fine with $5/mo as the base too. It wouldn't bother me if you do fewer than 4 videos some months. Independent of this, I think that having a $1/mo is just a good tier for any Patreon to have, as a tip jar that comes with no perks.
Argent
2024-08-12 18:22:12 +0000 UTCSo before reading this I actually didn't know that patreon had a per-creation plan and I always thought it was per month. So for me, a 5 man band teir, thought I was paying 5$ per month, this actually does factor into my finances as I made it in mind with it being only 5$ per month, NOT 20$ per month. So in truth I don't feel blindsided but I do feel dumb AND guilty because this means rn I can't actually contribute to the patreon as it functions rn. So for me I would prefer it to be per month and have a tier at 5$ per month, but thats how I myself budget, not yall. If yall wanna up the tiers to just what they are per month thats fine, but I assume there might be others like me who didn't know about this and might reconsider how there gonna contribute. I'm really here to just support u guys as a channel and get the AASS and I feel like 5$ really is all that those 2 things I'm here for, is really worth. Sorry if that's a little sad or hurtful but to me that's the truth. I do love u guys and reforming how u guys conduct payment and rewards is probably something to be thought about anyway. My only advice is see why and what everyone is here for specificly, create more teirs, balance out the rewards, and then set that as the new and hope u come out the best from it. Love yall, u guys do great work, I hope this works out for the best!🔴🔵❤️💙
Atomic_ luck
2024-08-12 18:15:24 +0000 UTCHonestly, I’m just paying Five Man Band once a month since I don’t really watch the videos here and just want the wallpaper pack, the AASS, the updates, and the votes. I’m hoping you’ll still have a tier for around that price that carries the same stuff, but I’d understand paying a little more for that beautiful artwork.
MischiefSpirit
2024-08-12 18:04:41 +0000 UTCThanks for the notice, it's good to know when a change is coming. My preference in interacting & funding teams/projects I like is a keeping my hands off. If I am offering money than I already like what is being done, you don't owe me nothing. As for the 'tiers' I propose setting it all under one with a minimum price + additional funds a person chooses to offer. Rather than adding additional stress in telling you what and how to do things. I am not interested in a framework that puts unwanted or unmanageable expectations in place. Here for the videos. The podcast is fun, the extra stuff is nice, but those are the extra not the reason.
AmbushDeer
2024-08-12 17:56:06 +0000 UTCI was on the Achilles Blanket Fort level, but the per video contribution became too high for me (since I don't live in the US and the dollar is going crazy high). I would love a $5/month tier, specially if I could get my name in the credits, but I understand if it's not possible for this price
frank sands
2024-08-12 17:53:40 +0000 UTCI like many people here am basically here for the AASS and while I would be sad to see it go from the $1 tier I would understand. You could just move some rewards up a tier without actually changing the tier names and that would work fine.
keystroke
2024-08-12 17:46:56 +0000 UTCI don't know if you can check this but if you can see what people cap their payments at per-month that might help with your pricing. I know that I have mine capped at once per month essentially making my subscription monthly and I probably wouldn't be able to afford anything beyond that with my current finances. Your tiers as they currently are should be fine, most creators have the $1/$5/$? split and from my calculations on creators that have income public, the average usually lies around $3/month. Given this I wouldn't be surprised if a substantial amount of people have it capped in order to keep your tiers in-line with what other creators have per-month.
keystroke
2024-08-12 17:44:31 +0000 UTCI'm in the 5 man band tier currently, and making that a $20/month is totally cool with my bank and me. Mostly me, I don't really care how the bank feels.
Bailey Dotson
2024-08-12 17:36:04 +0000 UTCGive me a $5/mo option, and I'm happy. Go Team OSP!
Trevor Bradley
2024-08-12 17:29:41 +0000 UTCI really prefer a consistent payment every month, but now that you point it out I can understand how per-episode might have had a psychological impact on you, helping you feel like you had to put out videos on time so you'd get paid. I'm sorry you'll be losing that. Hopefully you've been doing this long enough now to be in the habit and will be able to keep to your schedule even without that little nudge. I don't mind you getting a couple weeks paid vacation, you guys deserve it! As for rewards, the ones I'd care about are the AASS and seeing my name in the credits. If you felt like making that last a little more affordable, I wouldn't mind if it's tiny and moves fast, with bigger slower appearances for those with deeper pockets. Other places I've gotten promises of special Patron-only stickers (many of which don't follow through but it's nice when they do) or a random Patron getting thanked even if they're a lower tier (which is a nice gesture). I don't really need early access or ad-free videos, I'd rather you get the YouTube credit and income of my watching the release there!
CritterKeeper
2024-08-12 17:28:53 +0000 UTCMy incentive to subscribe was to get the AASS, and didn't even realize per-post was a thing. $4 or $5 pr month is fine. And no worries about taking much needed breaks, everyone has a right to that and the last thing anyone wants is for y'all to burn out!
GEH
2024-08-12 17:23:14 +0000 UTCI don't see an issue with changing to a per month plan. I pay for patreon to support the channel, not to buy videos. Plus, this channel consistently puts out the same number of videos each month. So this change feels like relabeling what's already going on.
PiLambdaOd
2024-08-12 17:14:50 +0000 UTCI feel the current tiers work well but that's easy to say when a) the main thing I'm interested in (AASS) is in the lowest tier and b) this is a heavily biased group to sample ;p This is probably the opposite of what you want to do but some creators offer monthly or yearly subscriptions and for myself I actually prefer a smaller number of larger charges.
Fake Name
2024-08-12 17:13:59 +0000 UTCI'm happy to support creators even when they're taking a break, or creators whose output isn't as regular as yours. My main reason for subscribing currently is access to the bonus episodes. Would it make sense to have a low-ish tier that's just podcast access? or maybe that's the lowest tier already idk
Haiz
2024-08-12 17:07:58 +0000 UTCWhen doing your calculations, you should take into account that patrons can cap their pledge to pay for no more than X videos a month. So just because someone is on your 5 dollar tier, that doesn't necessarily mean they've been paying 5x4 dollars per month, if they set a cap lower than that. Personally, as others have already said, I pretty much here for the AASS (and to support you guys, obviously, but the AASS is the only patron reward I actively care about). If the AASS ends up on a tier that's too rich for my blood, I'd probably just pledge every few months to binge episodes.
Trine Lise Andersen
2024-08-12 17:01:32 +0000 UTC4 x current price is a-ok
the Norwegian one
2024-08-12 16:59:31 +0000 UTCIf I'm being completely honest, i came into the Patreon late and already thought i was paying monthly. My major concern is having access to the AASS every fortnite. As long as i have access to that without paying too much more, then I'm content. EDIT: it looks like I'm paying $1 per video. If you make a $5/month tier that includes access to the AASS i woukd be fine.
deadcard13
2024-08-12 16:57:10 +0000 UTCI'm personally good by doing the 4x but I'm in the lowest tier, and a jump for example from 4 to 5 will be ok, but I cannot aport much more rn. Also, I'm generally not aware of the other benefits. I mainly have it to contribute a little to the channel, have access to the AASS and dreaming of asking Blue how in the world does he do the "I'm blue" intro without starting to sing that iconic and annoying song.
Julio V
2024-08-12 16:56:57 +0000 UTCThis is also the first concern that I had. I'm currently on the £1/video plan with a max of 2/month. I'd personally be ok paying £4 per month to support the OSP gang (and watch the AASSes), but it might not vibe for other people
AllieWhoops
2024-08-12 16:55:23 +0000 UTCFor what it's worth, I'm mostly here for the bonus podcast and to give a bit of money to support you guys. I'm certainly getting a good value for the price of my tier.
Jennifer Sieben
2024-08-12 16:54:19 +0000 UTCJust one rando's opinion but I personally don't mind a monthly model, even if it means you get things like the January-gap. I pay to support OSP, with the understanding that sometimes that will come with breaks and other irregularly-scheduled content. The AASS is probably the benefit I enjoy the most, so Lorelei is probably onto something with a dedicated tier for the After After Show Show. I sometimes watch the videos on patreon, but not often. Any other rewards are kinda just gravy on top of the content itself. The Seasonal Update was nice as far as "sneak peaks" go, but overall I'm satisfied with the current patreon benefits.
JM
2024-08-12 16:53:51 +0000 UTCAs much as I appreciate update posts and such, I'm primarily here for the aass and would love a tier exclusively for that
- Indra -
2024-08-12 16:50:57 +0000 UTCThe problem with scaling it up as you describe is that it's currently possible for folks to limit the number of pieces of content they get charged for per month, so not everyone may be doing 4. I have mine set currently at the max level I'm comfortable contributing each month, especially since I don't engage with all of your content, and it's less than 4.
Jim Schofield
2024-08-12 16:49:55 +0000 UTCI'm ok with the scaling. I honestly don't do much with the rewards personally, Other than the AASS. I think a mid tier (say $10 a month) might be a good add.
Colleen Rynski
2024-08-12 16:49:49 +0000 UTCI cannot speak for everyone, obviously, but for me personally, re tier rewards: I don't actually even know what my tier rewards ARE. As far as I'm concerned, the reward for my patreon donation is "OSP makes videos instead of having to go find a "real job" and scale back production". Anything else is just a bonus. Edit: Huh! I get a merch discount! Who knew?
Kraken Artificer
2024-08-12 16:49:36 +0000 UTCI'm subscribed on the lowest tier, meaning 1$ per video/4$ per month. Honestly, if the payment were per month rather than per video, I'd probably be able to give more... I just couldn't do the 20$ per month. That said, I mostly subscribed for the AASS, which I get at that tier, so I'm happy with that :)
JannyMeow
2024-08-12 16:48:18 +0000 UTCapple: "Our products are for creatives and artists" also apple: "screw you and your sensible payment scheme, you'll do it our way or die"
Sam_is_no_longer_enby
2024-08-12 16:48:06 +0000 UTCI will have to think about it to see what ideas I have -- nothing comes to mind off the top of my head except this: - If I get scaled up by 4x, I'm OK with that. - If I have to adjust my pledge down a bit because I can't consistently make 4x my current tier, I will do that. - Whatever you do, I will find some way to continue supporting you on Patreon, because your videos are the highlight of my week and I am so glad I can help this channel continue to exist
Kraken Artificer
2024-08-12 16:46:28 +0000 UTCAs usual when something in tech goes to crap, it's Apple's fault.
Radu Nicolae
2024-08-12 16:44:51 +0000 UTCI only pledged because of the after after show show. So if maybe there was a tier for just that?
Lorelei
2024-08-12 16:44:44 +0000 UTC
