Small Arms of WWI Primer 119: Madsen 1905 Part 2
Added 2020-02-25 03:35:07 +0000 UTC
Comments
Kind of wonder if the Madsen would even *work* upside down; like one Brit said do another when the Madsen was demonstrated, "It isn't so much a wonder it works so well, it's a wonder it works *at all*..." Kinda think it relies on that gravitational assist to the reliability of the extraction/ejection process. Have to wonder if the Benet-Mercie' beat out the Madsen when the U.S. adopted the 1909 [which went on to become the "Hotchkiss portative"] which I would find hard to believe if the Madsen had at least been trialed... Mmm, great idea for a revisionist history story, a gas-driven Madsen from collaborating w/ Benet squaring off against the Lewis gun! ;-)
Bruce Brodnax
2020-02-27 00:13:46 +0000 UTCTOTALLY concur with VintagePhone's comment on Franz von Rintelen. Watching the episode & thinking about the long stalemate of WWI, it dawned on me that some of the real heroes were the espionage guys who were trying to pry open the holes through whatever means possible. I'm wondering if von Rintelen's actions were more about denying guns to the other guy than acquiring them for his own side. A cool story of movement in a war that didn't really have much.
Erik
2020-02-26 13:17:15 +0000 UTCOthais, you and Mae came very close to hitting a pretty compelling what-if during your conclusion talk. The Madsen was a VERY early LMG. One of the pioneers of the concept. But it was, for various reasons, never adopted en mass by a major power (prior to WWI). Those that jumped on the MG bandwagon at all tended to focus on the heavy, static, sustained-fire guns. When the war broke out these heavy MG's dominated the battlefield and were one cause of the stagnation of the front lines. Then everyone went scrambling for LMG's and automatic rifles, looking for a way to break the stranglehold of the Maxim, Vickers, and Hotchkiss. So my question... What if a major belligerent power had gone all-in with the Madsen a decade before the Great War? What if it had been adopted by someone who put in the effort (like Germany did with the Maxim) to fully develop tactics for its use? What if it had been fielded as widely (by someone) in 1905 as widely as the Brits fielded the Lewis in WWI and the Bren in WWII? What if the Madsen had entered the war, in 1914, in large numbers, after a decade of field use and development? How would that have shifted the strategic balance in 1914/1915?
Christopher Dooley
2020-02-25 21:00:54 +0000 UTCInteresting stuff indeed. Do you know who the German arms dealer was who first sold the weapons to the Russians? Benny Spiro by any chance?
John S Wren
2020-02-25 18:13:36 +0000 UTCHow is there no Hollywood franchise about Franz von Rintelen????
VintagePhone
2020-02-25 12:35:09 +0000 UTCBe interesting to see when you guys get to WWII guns how the Madsen improved and if you like it more then. Although it'll be going up against WWII LMG's so I think it'll probably lose out pretty hard vs them over all.
tibbish
2020-02-25 09:03:09 +0000 UTCSo hypothetical dumb question. If the 1905 pattern was sent to the US for trials, do you think the US would been impressed by the Madsen or not interested? If the US did order samples, would it have been in .30-06 chambering and request redesign to have a box magazine on the bottom of the receiver? As i said just hypothetical question
James G. Jones
2020-02-25 06:43:32 +0000 UTCSO your saying this is just part 2 of an ongoing conspiracy to never show a 1911 primer. ;P
Phil Byrd
2020-02-25 05:18:40 +0000 UTCOk the bit about more research is needed just sounds like you found someone a great dissertation topic. Any PhD in history students around here?
David Herman
2020-02-25 04:05:21 +0000 UTC
