Episode 275 - Mint Conditions (w/ Matt Bruenig)

I kind of feel like everything wrong with the American Left is, instead of using a coalition of like-enough-minded thinkers to solve problems, we tear everybody down who doesn’t pass some hobby-horse purity test or another. It’s possible to be a powerful force for the Left while still being an MMT-skeptic, believe it or not.

Nic Acosta

Wait…what? Matt Bruenig is center-left and a class enemy? Those are pretty wild characterizations. Can you substantiate?

Nic Acosta

Great episode! Always love to hear from Matt.

Johann Strottman

Agreed!

@Jillian Bryan - did you delete your above message and if so, can you explain why? If you did not, do you have any information how or why it was deleted? It was an accurate, provocative, poignant, good faith, critique despite it being harsh at times

What I’m inarticulately and ungracefully saying is that rich people don’t have income. They have wealth. To access the wealth, they have devices such as disability trusts to ensure their disabled kids receive the max SSI and SNAP and services from the public schools, while the working poor have to reapply every year and don’t get the max.

Correct 💯🎯🔥

Jonathan Kadmon

Im inclined to agree w you and BJG about everything so it’s confusing when y’all disagree. but I’m more and more every day of the belief that we on the left should start explaining MMT early and often. Even though it’ll make you seem like a crazy lib in the short-term, I think it’s an ace-in-hole with the working class, especially the cohort that gets politically activated. They know austerity is bullshit. They’re stoked on voting for anyone who says things are bullshit, even if it’s a rich old trump. Imagine how much more stoked people would be on voting for an MMT candidate!

If you imagine that she already knows all this, you’ll digest her material better imho

My understanding of these questions is that they are posed to “Dem party” supporters to push *them* to respond (which they never effectively can, and duh), not that she holds any delusions about the feckless Blue system. Many of her episodes where she does interview organizers (socialist alliance org, for example), she’s been quite open about her position that both parties are actually one *business party* and that a 3rd party, along with upward push from grassroots orgs and the citizenry as a whole, are the only way to move toward people-centered politics (or democratic/libertarian socialism). That’s what I’ve consistently heard from her throughout her show.

Covid necessitated a rigourous public health program to ensure transmission was minimised so as to reduce cases/deaths and long covid. I fail to understand how those on the 'left' are against covid mitigation (including vaccinations) yet claim they support Medicare for All. What use is such a policy if you're dying/dead? Surely you fight to keep as many people alive as possible so that they can benefit from M4A?

Rashida Islam

Sorry to say that you’re going to be hearing a whole lot more of this, bc people’s anger over the insane pandemic repression isn’t going to go away.

MeatStepLively

Because that is all she knows.

@Rohan you are really doing the Lord's work out here. Disagree with your assertion that US COVID vaccines are "not great" but it's surprising how many folks haven't done the most basic due diligence on the anti-vax movement and their backers. A lot more unhinged anti-vax dreck on these boards than I was expecting.

I'm shocked that I'm the one to tell you the polio vaccine doesn't stop you from getting polio.

No coherent analysis, only parrots pro-capital class talking points

👏👏👏👏preach

ITs not part of the definition of a vaccine to halt transmission. A vaccine by definition "teach the immune system how to recognize and fight off specific disease-causing germs. They help protect you against disease without the risk of getting sick first. Vaccines contain killed, weakened, or synthetically manufactured versions of the disease-causing germ or parts of the germ called antigens." All of this is true of the mRNA vaccine. It does train your body for an infection its never seen, and it really gives your body a better chance to fight it. But Covid is such a tricky beast that it evades /hides from initial immunity long enough to express, but even then the immune memory will kick in and help you defeat it, giving you less chance of a severe infection. The vaccine also is insufficient bc the antibodies you receive wane and become outdated with new variants. These new variants form fast as we let it rip and it has great opportunity to mutate in millions of peoples systems. So the vaccine does not do a good job at stopping transmission, and its protection is fleeting, but useful for a few months. Natural antibodies also can protect you, but you have to survive an infection first and those antibodies wane just as fast as the vaccines antibodies! You dont want to get Covid for the first time without giving your body a heads up. So its a dillema. Not a great a vaccine, and DEFINTIELY not great to repeatedly infect yourself with this virus and roll the dice on you and your loved ones health. Thats why you want to wear an n95 mask when gathering publicly indoors. THe goal is to prevent infection. The vaccine, and it is a vaccine, is just there to help if you do get caught with an infection.

Money wise I am worth negative money, so I’m not very convinced at these rabid takes that in on the take here. I agree Matt wasn’t a good guest on the topic at hand, but getting worked up about his dismissal of the anti vaccine thing just denies that anti vax is extremely off putting. That isn’t an argument it’s just a thing that’s plain to see

This reply is a turn off lol

Do you have any reading recommendations to help a relatively uninitiated person to understand this issue you’re referring to with US Treasury bonds?

If you think Merfy is the one on the sauce, then it sounds more like you are of the same comfortable, cozy L2E school, that Matt Breunig swims with. Maybe you need a wake-up call.

Wrong. The MRNA jab is NOT a vaccine since it does NOT halt the spread of infection OR prevent you from getting the infection. The Polio shot is a vaccination. The more MRNA Covid boosters you get, the more likely you will get Covid.

I want her to read “The Real Anthony Fauci” and become fully activated. Yeah, it’s toxic bc literally everything we were told was either a blatant lie or now known to be factually incorrect. I get how a lot of the finger wagging crowd doesn’t want to hear it, but this issue isn’t going to go away. I’m a big city latte-sipper that pays for Brie’s patreon and I’d join a militia before I subject myself to that type of totalitarian government control again…what do you think the boys out in Idaho are thinking?

MeatStepLively

Social spending wasn’t a blip on the radar. The roughly 10 trillion dollars the Fed printed and cannon-balled into equity markets were the main drivers of inflation. Had they not shit down the main st economy…it would be FAR worse. The amount of criminal financial behavior that occurred during Covid (as well as the non-financial crimes taking place) make 2008 seem quaint. I’m regards to the “debt” and how it’s bandied about on podcasts like this, it’s infuriating. The way people talk about The Fed and Treasury auctions show a complete lack of understanding of how literally ANYTHING in government accounting and financial markets work. Listening to the MMT and “coin” talk makes my ears bleed. US Treasury auctions have been FAILING for the better part of a decade: weird that none of the teleprompter monkeys on TV are saying this. So, WHO is buying that debt? The buyer of last resort…The Fed. Everyone of earths sugar daddy. Here’s the Fed balance sheet: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_recenttrends.htm Do any of you see any “tapering.” I sure don’t; I see 9 trillion dollars in free money (“liquidity”) for Wall St. Now let’s look at the reverse repo market: https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_recenttrends.htm We’ll look at that, this Fed “emergency” liquidity facility has been paying out interest to the biggest banks in the world (now to the tune of 5.5%) for quite some time…that’s a long “emergency” you got there. And yes, that’s 2.5 TRILLION dollars per day they’re paying interest on the banks through the back door. When’s the last time you heard CNN talk about the reverse repo facility…or the discount window…or the flat balance sheet. Yeah, never. So, yeah, that’s where your “inflation” is coming from…the rulers of the world stealing your purchasing power. And these are just the published #’s…we could go on for quite some time talking about Market Makers, Hedge Funds, HFT’s, and corrupt corporate boards basically skimming the top of the market off for themselves.

MeatStepLively

I don’t think he comes close to the epitome of what’s wrong with the American left. He’s a pro-welfare state socialist, and a unionist. Extremely gentle pushback on RFK for his anti-vax stuff is an incredibly normal guy thing to do. How deep in the sauce are you friend?

Matt is such a breath of fresh air. But he is definitely not who comes to mind when thinking about the debt ceiling politicking. Anything about the welfare state he’s a premiere expert on, so the stuff a month or two ago about social security cuts would have been a great time to have him on. That said, I’m kind of turned off on the anti vax stuff personally. I think it’s very toxic and alienating, hope it doesn’t careen the viewpoints on your show.

The "personal savings rate" is a bit misleading for normies - paying off debt is considered "saving" for calculation purposes, whereas for normal people, paying off debt isn't the same as saving. Matt's a bit to wedded to the conventional wisdom to point this out. Also the idea that social spending during the pandemic was the main driver of inflation is hard to square with the evidence. https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/excess-savings-during-the-covid-19-pandemic-20221021.html

Josephus Franks

I think a lot of people are basing the increased rate of infection that appears to correlate with increased number of vaccinations on the Cleveland Clinic study: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full-text

Omg I’m at 44 minutes and I can’t listen to this. He’s the left?? You might as well have Larry Summers on. Mainstream media is now admitting corporations raised prices in search of profit. It wasn’t COVID spending. Also f** you, Matt, for some of us the ridiculous costs of food and clothes is hurting us

Are you sure he is trying to make some point by asking that "rhetorical question" and that the answer is obvious and implied? If that's a rhetorical question he is not genuinely asking because the answer is so obvious, why does he state the following in the second to last paragraph. "It’s just that [Democrats] have decided for some bizarre reason that parents should be subjected to an absolutely ridiculous and pointless activity test but only until their kids hit age 3." Some nebulous, undiagnosed, phantom "bizarre reason" is the best his article does to explain why the democrats are so addicted to cruelty. What is his theory of change for this specific problem (which is one TINY example of liberal means testing and designed failure)? HOPE our lawmakers WISEN UP! "There is still time to change the bill before it is formally introduced and I hope lawmakers wisen up a bit before they put out yet another garbage child care proposal." peoplespolicyproject.org/2023/04/25/democrats-insist-on-ridiculous-eligibility-rules-for-child-care-subsidies/

But the question in the headline is rhetorical. He is not genuinely asking why democrats don’t work for the working class lol.

Tyler Sambucci

Matt doesn't understand who the enemy is, which is where his analysis always falls apart, talk about WHAT the problems we have are but never telling followers WHO is responsible for it (capital ruling class, red/blue fascist duopoly+corporate dictatorship) or HOW we get real material improvements for the working class. Breunig's theory of change - ASK democrats to do more as if they are on our team. Check out his article dated April 23rd 2023 on Peoples Policy Project which illustrates this perfectly in the title and header alone - "Democrats Insist on Ridiculous Eligibility Rules for Child Care Subsidies - Why are Democrats so addicted to pointless and cruel red tape?" No material analysis, just vibes about how the poor democrats could be stumbling and bumbling and just by chance hurt the working class again! Oh no how does that keep happening?!?! 🙃🙃🙃

I think I understand your point, but to gently push back on the semantics and defend the "American left" - the left is the side of the revolution, right is the side of the king. Matt isn't as far to the right as Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden but he's not far from it.

Golly, Matt Breunig is a smug comfortable turd. Quick to deride, too brainless to challenge his own conceits. MMT, Marianne Williamson, RFK Jr, all dismissed (despite Brie's gentle pushback). Breunig is the epitome of everything wrong with the American Left.

Merfy Mac

Brie, Cornell law professor Robert Hockett would be a great guest for discussing all the legal options for getting rid of the debt ceiling. I find his interviews engaging. I think he’s a pretty good communicator. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4445688

yeah gone from reluctant fellow traveller to straight up class enemy. He's been bad for a long time, much longer than a year. He's just been doubling down more belligerently with it lately.

Jonathan Kadmon

oh well at least it's a patreon only episode.

Jonathan Kadmon

Matt's one of the worst people you could have this discussion with. nearly every answer was wrong, the question was whether it was partly wrong or entirely wrong. He's literally perpetuating right wing tropes on economics, particularly on inflation. He's also an MMT hater without actually understanding what it is. It shows in his terrible answers. He explained the debt and debt ceiling stuff wrong too. I feel like he's kinda crossed the line from reluctant fellow traveller into straight up counterproductive class enemy at this point.

Jonathan Kadmon

exactly

Jonathan Kadmon

Its simply not true that vaccination gives you higher risk of contracting Covid. You have probably looked at the unadjusted raw counts that show more ppl have had Covid are vaccinated, which is due to their being more ppl who have the vax than dont. Rate of infection between vaxxed and unvaxxed are similar, but slightly less risk amongst vaccincated. WITHIN each group, you must calculate their own rates. Whoever sold you that BS knows the difference but has an agenda to trick you. Fact is, vaxx does not do a good job of preventing infection, and it shouldnt be the sole tool you have to protect yourself from a virus that causes lasting damage to your organs and kills the vulnerable, but it doesnt increase your risk either. CDC advised gathering limits for indoor events, and made lots of exceptions. There was only a few months of semi-lockdown, that bought ppl time to avoid infection before we had much knowledge abt Covid or any treatments/vaxxes. It helped keep hospitals from overflowing. Its not a permanent fix and its been done before. Respirator masks like n95 are the only tool that can prevent you from getting Covid while going out and living your life, outside of good ventilation. Mandates are an educational tool, and ppl who are rule followers will behave better. But not everyone. If everyone wore an n95 mask, then we'd stomp Covid out. If half of us wear one, then there will be a lot less virus circulating. Keep buying the billionaire funded Great Baarrington Decleration rightwing libertarian talking points. There agenda is to sell Covid as mild so that you will go back to work and make them billions while jeopardizing yoru health and making you pay for health bills on your own down the line. Yall think you are anti-authoritarian, but minimizing the well-documented risks of Covid infection is doing rightwing billioanire work for them. Not sure how yall dont see that its Biden plan to "never lockdown again", open everything up without masks, and call it mild. You should vote for him in 2024! He is your guy on a major current issue.

https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1122

MeatStepLively

I was not he's always been terrible.

Jonathan Kadmon

I always really appreciate his commentary. It’s nice to hear these policy arguments get put through an unbridled autism filter. He seems to be interested in these topics bc, we’ll, he’s genuinely interested. It doesn’t come off as ideological.

MeatStepLively

Minting the coin does not spend additional money into the economy -- it's simply an accounting trick. Congress funds programs that spend money into the economy. A 1 Trillion Dollar coin sitting in a vault somewhere at the Treasury is not cash circulating in the economy.

Not PMC…NPC

MeatStepLively

If you got an mRNA vaccine you are literally more likely to contract Covid…and masking, social distancing, and lockdowns have never been a part of CDC (or global) pandemic response EVER before Covid. So, there’s that.

MeatStepLively

The income of parents of disabled children is considered when they apply for SSI, SNAP, or TANF until they are 18 or 21 years old.

I was flabbergasted that he said that.

Drew McGill

Matt is a great guest. I like his balanced views. My only critic, why not a two or three hour interview? :)

Disagree on Matt. He sounds like an establishment economist which is hilarious. I don’t know how he’s moved towards the center left in the past year.

Drew McGill

On my personal life, ya couldn’t be farther from the truth lol✌🏼 Mandates only work if ppl follow them🤷‍♀️

Noah Hinrichsen

Wow. Do you work for Pfizer, or are you just one of Krystal's fan Boyz? Most likely your another PMC who thinks studies paid for by Big Pharma are honest, with no hidden desired outcome. RFK Jr is NOT ANTI-Vaxx. He's pro SAFE vaccines. All my children got their shots as kids. But the MNRA Jab has been an illegal experimentation on children & the planet as a whole. But YOU don't want any questions of the authorities that YOU have been propagandized by. Mandates were a disaster and saved NO ONE. The MRNA jabs have injured more than an insignificant number. FDA receives over 70% of their funding from Pharmaceutical companies "Application Fees." All that is irrelevant, since you have a hate hard-on RFK Jr. Interesting priorities.

FUCK those regressive, neurotypical views on autism coming from Kennedy’s mouth. His “statics” reek to high heaven. And, about his COVID views… is he on the side of the virus? He thinks masks and vaccines INCREASE risk for COVID🤡💩 I think this Current Affairs quote sums it up: “Any success he has is an indictment of a party that has made him one of the few options left to anyone who doesn’t want another four years of Joe Biden.” I think Fauci and Gates are slimy bastards too, but RFK just sucks so much. He’s got nothing good going for him, but a lot of things that are fine and nothing more. The episode was great tho! This is easily one of my favorite podcasts!

Noah Hinrichsen

I’m surprised that you didn’t challenge Matt on the inflation story-that it’s mainly attributable to corporate concentration which amplifies their ability to profiteer. Even the Wall Street Journal has admitted it. You both fell into the Fed and the right’s framing that stimulus spending is to blame.

Brian Houlehan

Great episode from both of you!

Tyler Sambucci

They also make for great asset protection devices, just fyi for any bad actors with tons of money reading this

Anyone who supports legislation for more stringent conditions on snap benefits like work requirements should also be asked about why it’s the norm since time immemorial for the disabled children and dependents of rich people to receive snap and other benefits even all the way through adulthood by utilizing disability trusts, which allow the beneficiary to receive public assistance and unlimited family assistance, even on means tested benefits. It’s not a tax “loophole”; it’s policy, as the IRS has a little how-to on it.