Episode 272 - BRICS House: Part 2 (w/ Ben Norton)

YESSS more Ben Norton. 100%

Exactly. I love the new world we are living in where people don't want to work with people who share their same opinion because they hold different opinions... I feel like we can stop World War 3 and then we can go back to arguing if that's cool with Ben. He has good analysis overall in terms of what America's neoliberal agenda is around the world... He is one of the best resources for that. But It was a bummer to see him leave the Gray Zone over something like COVID. And I say that as someone who did all the things just like he did. I also definitely don't understand the " Believe science" narrative. I've listened to so many scientists who don't agree on this subject at all. What these liberals were actually saying was believed Pfizer... Even if it was operating on a extremely rushed timeline that skipped a ton of testing that would normally be required. The point of science is that you keep doing the research and you keep updating your views. It's not supposed to be a coercive line to undermine people who don't agree with you about a vaccine. Liberals truly ruined the word science during this pandemic :(

Michelle B

Yes, which is why AOC, the War Squad, and Bernie the Strikebreaker worry me more. Their Identity politics flag can gloss over every corporate/MIC war with the banner, "Humanitarian Effort & Support."

This 👆

Michelle B

In my humble opinion, the most qualified Westerner in this regard is Lyle Goldstein, author of “Meeting China Halfway: How to Defuse the Emerging US-China Rivalry” a book that was published in 2015 and which outlined suggestions which, had we implemented even a fraction of them, might have kept things from escalating to their current level of hysteria. Lyle speaks both Russian and Mandarin and bases his opinions on analysis of Chinese sources that are largely ignored in the West. I think he would make an excellent guest…even better would be a face-off between him and Elbridge Colby. BTW, I was raised in Taiwan and have vague memories of the first Taiwan Strait Crisis and more vivid memories of the Second. I’ve often felt that I understand what it must be like to live in Israel today because I grew up with constant reminders from the powers that be that our existence was likely to be wiped out in any given second as China was determined to reclaim the island. We’re talking 1950’s here, so you may understand why it’s difficult for me to take this threat too seriously. I still want to say, “胡說八道! Húshuōbādào! Utter nonsense!” but now I am almost convinced that we can have this war if we want it. In other words, if we continue to build up Taiwan’s defenses and provoke China in this way, they may feel that they have no choice but to assert their rights.

Ukraine and the bad putins should give you pause on how easily young people can be fooled into supporting literal nazis

Lydia Maria Child

Ben doesn't like RFK Jr. cuz Ben believes ALL the Covid lies. He Left Grayzone because of this. He's not as "independent" in thought as he thinks he is. I value Ben's reporting on Central & South America. Other than that, he could be any other "Trust Science" lemming. He's similar to Jordan Chariton in that way. Jordan does great reporting on Flint, Standing Rick and strikes, but his other opinions are very Dem-normie. Ben isn't a Dem, but he still follows a more establishment view on subjects like Covid & quarantine, which puts way too much trust in US agencies, like the FDA.

Ben thinks young people are more Left - my Zoomer daughter is VERY Left, especially on social issues. Please, Ben, explain how my daughter is going to be "fooled" by anti war Repubs and suddenly support making drag illegal? Or make abortion illegal federally? Young people are not that easily lead into a social conservative, racist mindset. They can work with Anti War rightwingers AND understand that they are not their New BFF. Fauxggresive Neolib Pigs, like AOC & Ro Khanna, who focus solely on identity politics while selling out economically, worry me more than Tucker.

Agree 100%! The DNC has already made it abundantly clear that they do not give a shit what voters think or want, cuz they do NOT have to. They are a corporation who can totally disregard votes in a primary and the DNC Corporation Superdelegates & Elites can pick a candidate without voter approval. I think people keep forgetting that. The Republican party is MORE democratic than the Democrats!

Why are you constantly trying to justify voting when everything you say is a reason to stop?

I agree with Bri. RFK all the way. Because Fuck Joe Biden and Fuck the Democratic Party. I donated $24 and I’ll vote for him in the primary because he had the balls to say “Ukraine war bad. China belt and road approach to diplomacy good.” Because that’s what I believe and I want a mainstream figure to represent me so I don’t feel isolated and insane all the time thinking and speaking the way I do. I can do this and still be committed to voting green in the general and not feeling morally responsible for when the Republicans win because it’s the Democratic Party’s actions and not mine that will engineer that outcome and I’m sick of supporting them unconditionally

Nick Grayson

On a side note regarding your strategy for your mtg interview (which I haven’t yet seen), I think bringing up the fact that these people who see groomers around every corner (like mtg) have nothing to say when the regularly scheduled example of conservative state representatives literally die on the hill to protect child marriage laws in their respective states is a good one to probe on. I say regularly scheduled because I swear every 3 months this happens it seems

Methew

And for the record, Ben Norton is awesome

Fish Priest

Kinda makes my point. Like I said, second or third hand. I have a couple American Born Chinese friends that speak the language, and have even talked to their immigrant parents but I still know very little about China, despite having a contact that speaks the language. Wikipedia says Roland has a Bachelor's degree in divinity, and Ben just subtitles him as "Professor" in that video. Cool. I guess I just wish we could branch out more. Are there really no Chinese leftists we can talk to? We just have western guys that don't even speak Chinese to talk to about China? As our political class seems like they're posturing to make them our next official enemy? I wouldn't even know who we should be talking to, someone from Dongsheng maybe. I think I know them because Abby Martin had someone from there on a podcast

Fish Priest

Love the Iggy pop closer bri!

Methew

Yeah but only as long as you are actually contextualizing yourself and your criticism to the fact that we live in a non democratic authoritarian regime. Defenders of liberalism defend authoritarianism while still actually believing they’re defending some notion of democratic liberalism

Methew

Socialists can criticize China & Nicaragua, while simultaneously being a post a Bourgeois Democracy. Ben’s false dichotomy is the same logic defenders of liberalism use to excuse their authoritarian regimes.

Or have a contact that speaks the language https://youtube.com/watch?v=mgcyqkEOhQc

Can I humbly submit that we should require that someone fluently speak the language of locals to give any real analysis on a society, far less the government and foreign policy? Ben seems pretty knowledgeable, but I'm getting vibes of the Matt Stoller vs Danny Haiphong talking about China. I don't speak or read Mandarin, and it's not clear that any of these other people do either. It'd be great to get some analysis from someone that at the bare minimum reads newspapers in Chinese. We seem to have a habit of getting our information and analysis from westerners that are themselves getting their info second or third hand

Fish Priest