Two On Ice: Unedited Audio & Notes

Intro

• David: Welcome to this episode of Shonen Flop, where we talk about manga in Shonen Jump that didn’t make it big

• David: I’m David

• Jordan: I’m Jordan

• David: Next week we’ll be covering Kyokuto Necromance If you’d like to read along with us. Be sure to join the discussion in our Discord and submit your six-word summary. You can find a link to the Discord in our episode description and on our website shonenflop.com

• But this week we’re talking about Two on Ice and we’re joined by our guest 

• Guest: 30-second intro

Manga Details

• Elck Itsumo

  • Notable people they were an assistant for

    • Daisuke Enoshima (Fabricant 100)

      • on Fabricant 100

  • Notable people they had as assistants

    • No-one notable, but recording the names here just in case they become notable one day. You don’t have to actually mention them on the show:

      • Nagisa Ide

      • Kamurako

      • Kouta Sasaki

  • Other works

    • Two on Ice is Itsumo’s debut serialization, but has done some one-shots beforehand, including:

      • Higan no Hi (Jump GIGA, 2021)

      • Railway/Gateway (Weekly Shonen Jump, 2022)

      • She’s nothing but a stone. (Weekly Shonen Jump, 2022)

      • The two in the garden of mourning (Jump Plus, 2023)

      • We are just what we need (Weekly Shonen Jump, 2023)

• Publishing

  • Run Dates: 

    • September 24th, 2023 to April 14th, 2024

  • Series it replaced

• Do Retry by Jun Kirarazaka (2 vols, flop, Shonen Flop Episode 91)

• Series that replaced it

  • Kyokuto Necromance by Fusai Naba (2 vols, flop, COMING SOON TO SHONEN FLOP)

• Series that started at the same time as it

  • MamaYuyu by Yoshihiko Hayashi (4 vols, flop, Shonen Flop Episode 104)

  • Kagurabachi by Takeru Hokazono (3+ volumes, meme hit “kino”)

• Chapters/Volumes: 

  • 28 chapters/4 volumes

About the Manga

• Plot

  • When Hayuma was a little kid he saw a young girl do figure skating really good which made him want to figure skate good too. He’d practice on a nearby frozen lake and watch her skate on TV where he’d copy her moves until one day she disappeared. As a teenager his family moved to the city which had actual skating rinks and meets one of the employees named Kisara Saotome who happens to be the little girl! Kisara said she quit skating singles because she wanted to skate doubles. But she can’t find a partner! Even though she’s creeped out by Hayuma’s obsession with her, she asks him to be her partner. Kisara tells him that dang he’s so good and could become famous doing singles so maybe he shouldn’t do doubles but he says he wants to do it to help her and keep the manga going. The two are trained by the skating duo Natsubi and Natsuya Kirishima: two twins whose family owns the rink they skate at. Kisara tells Hayuma that they should totally do a pair triple axel which has never been done in a competition before, so they spend the rest of the manga not shutting the fuck up about it. 

  • Hayuma is nervous about touching Kisara so the Kirishimas introduce them to a pair who used to be a couple that broke up and it doesn’t matter they do nothing. I don't even know why I wrote it here. The actual reason why Kisara left is because a superstar named Takayuki was misogynistic and told her that she should’ve been born a boy if she wanted to be really good. Demoralized, she decided to switch to doubles where she believed she’d be more successful and she was kicked out by her coach who has no eyes. Hayuma ends up competing in a singles tournament where he lands the triple axel woah omg he can do it wow. Takayuki is a massive huge superstar and also a dick and decides he’s going to start skating pairs just to spite Kisara. First he’s gotta get gold at the Olympics which he does pretty easily it’s nbd. Seriously though I cannot stress to you enough how much of this manga is just explaining the rules and techniques of ice skating.

  •  Takayuki decides to choose his pairs partner and chooses a girl named Himuro. They compete against Hayuma and Kisara in a tournament and it turns out that he didn’t pick Himuro because she was good but because she was bad. He intentionally humiliates her in order to draw out a super fan to take her place but they end up winning anyway cuz he’s just that good. Hayuma and Kisara go next and they land the fucking triple axel even tho it wasn’t perfect.  Takayuki and Himuro drop out after she leaves him so they get a medal even though they were the only ones competing anyway. Takayuki is then approached by Yuko the Trash girl who is a super fan that has copied all his moves. It turns out that Takayuki is a dick because when he was a kid he was one of the only boys who were into figure skating and so wished he was a girl. Then Kisara and Hayuma go to compete in a tournament the end bye,

• Characters

  •   Hayuma Minekoshi

    • Loves skating

    • Is good at it

    • Dumb

    • Everyone wants him on the sports team

    • A little weird but means well

    • Whomst?

  • Kisara Saotome

    • Good skate

    • Doesn’t like to talk about past

    • Absolutely should have been the focus

  • Takayuki Sora

    • Pretty boy

    • Everyone thinks is the best  but doesn't want people thinking that

    • Fear weak strong etc bad guy 

    • But he isn't like a bad guy

    • Ok he is a bad guy?

    • Maybe trans?

    • Obsessed with Saotome

Why it Failed  - Jan 

• This is really blue box at home 

• The whole singles or doubles thing is such a forced plot when it's called two on ice ffs

• It has so much unimportant text I couldn't be bothered to read the rules to ice skating so I don't understand it well

• The series thinks its way better than it is with all these big reactions to the jokes

• The art can be very rough at times

• Fuck there’s a lot of text, so much tell don’t show ya know?

• This story really wants to like have a vibe to it but it just isn’t hitting me, like “the end” when his leg cramped in chapter 3

• I feel the MCs relationship went really fast like why is he her partner so soon?

• It doesn’t really feel like it set up a plot, they just kinda ice skate?

• This drama just feels so forced, like why even have him doubt if he’s doing pairs it’s called two on ice and the series ins’t good enough for me to think that might actually happen

• This author feels like they didn't feel confident in their plot and feels like every minute detail has to be explained which makes me just go hazy eyed on the pages

• The romance subplot came way too fast like let it build up and not just his childhood obsession l

• Where did the non ice skating characters go? Even like his parents 

• Going to saotome house really shows how the author dropped the ball on providing outside details it's just a throwaway line about how rich she is, like they could have met a sibling or maybe the tv accidentally last plays something embarrassing and we learn a little more who her interests outside of figure skating 

• It picks up near the end talking about the pros at the Olympics

•  I just feel nothing made me root for the mcs I just didn't care about their story

• I feel this really glosses over how brutal ice skating is, their consultant (whom maxybee talks about later) had a serious ED due to making weight

• Sora was underused a lot despite being what seems to be an interesting character

• I feel the mechanics of skating are talked about not very much, what did the consultant really do on this?

• This took way too long to actually get to real ice skating like it’s chapter 26 holy crap

What it Did Well

• David: And before we get into what we think it did well, if you’ve been enjoying the show we’d really appreciate it if you subscribed to the Shonen Flop Youtube! We’re trying to hit our goal of 1500 YouTube subs and if we hit it we’ll do a special bonus episode on the Build King Epilogue. If you’re already subscribed, thanks so much!

• The art has a nice sense of motion to it

• There's some creative elements like the upside down panel during the backflip 

• While still forced I appreciate why the mc chose to do doublesI like the name plates “former prodigy who might have issues”

• The doubles is a nice focus and differs from other sports

• It treats the female mc with a lot of respect 

• I did learn a few things about ice skating 

• The Olympic failure scene was nice as was the hug

Where it Could Have Gone - Jan

• Could have used the musical elements more, imagine each chapter had a song to listen to while reading as they used actual music

• Ok this needed like an overarching plot and motivation instead of just because, honestly I wonder if the MC has a crush on Saotome and starts learning to do ice skating to impress her. Yes it’s generic but it’s something

• Reduce the text jesus

• Make it about saotome finding a reason to love ice skating again and teaching the little cinnamon roll

• I'm still not sure if the mc having a platonic relationship is the move

• Idk why but setting this in the 80s could have been interesting 

Misc Thoughts

• Why does this make me think of pppppp

• I'd probably buy some of those shirts

• I wonder if helmets have been considered for ice skating or at least things like knee pads

• This feels like the author grew up reading Tumblr fan comics in the 2000s

• Quicksilver in marvel totally looks like a figure skater 

• I haven’t seen a boob envy joke in a minute I thought they died out

• Maxy Bee thoughts:

  • As with many modern series on specialist subjects this had a professional advisor consulting on the manga, six-time Japanese national champion Narumi Takahashi, who has won many a medal in pairs skating, knows seven languages, and is a beloved member of the LGBT+ community (and actually became the first out Japanese skater back in 2022).

    • Normally the advisors don’t get much of a spotlight, so it’s novel to see info from Takahashi explicitly noted in some chapters, as well as the dedicated section in each volume. The only other series we’ve covered that gave a volume feature to an advisor was Do Retry.

  • Screentone-heavy series like this suffer a noticeable amount from the compression of the SJ app and Manga Plus, and I encourage everyone to pick up the digital volumes, whether in Japanese or the eventual Viz Media versions. The art hits a whole lot harder when it’s nice and crisp.

  • Despite mentioning a real skater in chapter 4, Itsumo asserts that Two on Ice is in a different world without real-life athletes. That page was just Itsumo talking to you, the reader.

  • The Mistletoe dance sequence in chapter 13 is in that lovely handwritten English in the original version as well.

  • Chapter 14 released on xmas eve in the US, and xmas day in Japan, an incredibly lucky bit of timing for Itsumo.

  • Volume extras include but are not limited to:

    • Character profiles.

    • Various notes and errata about specific concepts and choices made in each chapter, usually accompanied by a cute doodle.

    • Figure skating guides/q&a with advisor Narumi Takahashi

    • Promo for the series’ X (formerly Twitter account)

    • Bonus strips, including a short epilogue.

    • HUGE TEXT PIECES explaining where every major character would have gone, as well as the broader concepts for their arcs, realised or not.

    • A SEVEN PAGE AFTERWORD.

      • I can’t possibly explain all of it, but Itsumo talks a lot about how the mature themes weren’t intended, but were born out of a want to depict the sport as a real-life drama, as opposed to the exaggerated standards of shonen manga, as well as a LOT of talk about deliberately challenging gender stereotyping as much as possible with the work.

    • Staff credits!

    • One-shots:

      • Higan no Hi (vol.3)

      • She’s nothing but a stone (vol.4)

      • We are just what we need (vol.4)

    • Credits for people and places that helped with research.

Final Verdict

• Six Word summary

  • Community

    • Tucker: Skating’s less dynamic than golf, apparently | Exhaustively telling us, barely showing us 

    • Maxybee: Two people, one ice reaction video

    • AuraPaladin: Sports in Jump? It'll never work

    • Balth: Sports/romance? Just read Blue Box.

    • blahmoomoo: Flawed protagonist gets the axe again

    • Chickenwarlord: Look elsewhere for ice-head thrills

    • dackerson: Wins no medal; is not Medalist

    • Diego: Just watch "Blades of glory" instead

    • Dougie4😊: Bambi was more graceful than this

    • duderocks: Thought you'd cover this in winter

    • FunkyGreenOverdrive: Breaking news: Skating manga gets iced

    • Glornak Ironspawn: Failed to compete among its peers.

    • GreyPotter: Being male is his super power

    • Isekai Sensei: Twas Offered Innocence Then Over Indulged

    • Kpt.Kluless: Two teens tried to twirl together

    • LassOfTheRedRose: Rough year for ice skating animanga 😔

    • LordAnubis: Another sports manga has been iced

    • Luffy0321: mediocre skater outperformed by melodramatic rival

    • Meru: Glacial Undergoing, Neat Dances, Average Manga

    • Portal man: couldn't figure eight outta this flop

    • Resident Warhammer Nerd: haha, get it? it was "iced".

    • Riel: There sure were two on ice.

    • Riley: Always twirling, twirling, twirling towards cancellation

    • Sbubby: Shaky Skaters Struggle Sparring Stylish Sephiroth

    • Scott: There's no Yuri on this ice.

    • The Wolf The Wood The Trafalgar: This wasn't hockey, so I passed

    • Thores: I liked the broken up couple

    • Xylon: Antagonist too edgy for cute manga.

  • David: it states on plot-thin ice | 🎵 the ambiguously gay ice skating duo 🎵 

  • Jordan: wow ggg was real fuckin good