Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 5x14 "The Devil Complex" Full Reaction
Added 2024-12-01 06:11:15 +0000 UTC
Comments
The astronaut at the beginning was hive’s body prior to will, the one that attacked both him and Simmons in the sandstorm while they were trying to reach fitz
William chase robinson
2024-12-02 00:18:44 +0000 UTC@Laurel - That is an excellent point, I hadn’t even thought of that before! To be honest the more the episode is analysed, the more awful Fitz’s actions seem to me. There were just so many other options and alternatives along the way, even with as you say, down to him choosing to go ahead, without access to any proper pain medication or help. Even if you think operating on Daisy was the only option, it’s aspects like that, that just make it sadistic. I look forward to discussing this more with you after next few episodes! I can definitely agree with Christopher that things become clearer, but I think so probably in a different way than he means.
Lyla
2024-12-01 15:59:43 +0000 UTCIf I remember we will discuss it more next episode as we get a clearer answer there. He also gave her a drug for the pain and he mentioned he didn't have much. He could not knock her out because he needed her to move the Gravitonum right then because again time was the ultimate factor here.
Christopher simeon
2024-12-01 14:43:27 +0000 UTCYep yep yep, totally agree. Another thing is that Fitz's expertise doesn't lie in the medical field — if he truly felt removing the implant was the only way, why not make Jemma do it? She's the biologist who's done delicate surgeries before. Fitz's expertise lies in engineering, why couldn't he have tried to replicate the remote that Kasius had to turn the inhibitor on or off? That's perfectly in his wheelhouse. But nope, he immediately resorted to Leopold's specialty. Could he not at least have gotten Daisy some ice?
Laurel
2024-12-01 14:23:06 +0000 UTCI just disagree entirely sorry. I explained why in my original comment, and addressed all your counter arguments there too. But I understand that Fitz is a popular character and other fans don’t feel the same as me about this episode and that’s fine.
Lyla
2024-12-01 14:15:42 +0000 UTCI don't know if you are interested but this is the hints of Fitz break. If you have time to react to it that would be awesome. https://youtu.be/GP4fJpUxdho?si=FglSlEyNFe8_up9w
Christopher simeon
2024-12-01 14:04:10 +0000 UTCI understand your reasoning but that is the exact reasoning that makes Fitz do what he did. Daisy would never risk the world exploding to save herself. She is a selfless hero. She would rather die then be the reason earth is gone. She thinks with her heart not her head. Leopold has way less empathy and thinks logically. Fitz is in the middle. Fitz's whole argument is based around the fact that they were running out of time. His wish was even for more time. The start of the episode had an Agent DIE that was going to be Simmons if Fitz didn't help save her. This is what "Broke" Fitz mind. He is willing to risk the world and his his friendships to save Simmons and the teams lives in the short term. The rift was a possible reason the earth was destroyed and it already attacked many people at this point. Fitz knew the solution but also knew Daisy would try and suggest another way and take up time because even when he told her what he was going to do and why she still resisted even when Deke and Simmons were at Gun point. So I don't know why people think it was as easy as talking to her. If it was that would have been the first thing Fitz would have done. He chose the hard choice sacrificing his friendships to save their lives at the risk of the world. He also willing turned himself in after because he knows it is fucked up but it doesn't change the fact that it needed to be done.
Christopher simeon
2024-12-01 13:59:38 +0000 UTCAh Laurel yes! You put it much better and more succinctly than me, but I’m so glad we’re in agreement here.
Lyla
2024-12-01 13:30:44 +0000 UTCThis is a very clever, well constructed, directed and acted episode, but one which I think is a mess in terms of its ideology and messaging, not least what it seems to suggest about Fitz’s character. The thing is I don’t think anyone would disagree with the conclusion that Fitz basically realised here - that Daisy’s powers were needed to stop the fear dimension. It’s all about the how in this situation and that’s why to some, including me, the writers and the character cross a line. Basically, I want to challenge the idea that what Fitz did was the ‘logical’ thing to do, as that’s often what’s brought up to defend him in this episode, but which does not work for me at all because the actually truly logical thing would be to tell Daisy her powers were needed. Everything is easier, quicker and safer with her cooperation, not to mention that it would just actually make it not morally reprehensible. Yes of course, she’s always been somewhat stubborn. But when has she never *not* been almost entirely selfless, doing whatever was needed to do to save the team, and the world, at any cost to herself. Daisy is a character who has been shown to try to sacrifice her whole life actually countless times by this point, even when other, better options in fact exist. We have seen it time and time again, even from very early on when she was still just the hacker ‘Skye’. The idea that she wouldn’t have listened to Fitz or the team had they approached her and actually discussed it, is pretty nonsensical and not based on looking at her past character. Not that we can ever know though, since he never bothered to actually go and ask her. Which makes his acts in this episode even more dubious and disturbing, particularly with his display of basically no remorse after the fact, or even just consideration that there were a myriad of better ways to go about this, or any real appreciation of her physical and psychological trauma and pain. Telling nobody, taking everybody hostage, threatening and hurting them, kidnapping Daisy and subjecting to her to a life changing, extremely dangerous and painful procedure, with no mitigation for the pain and no guarantee that it would work, or that it wouldn’t bring worse outcomes, or that she’d be in any condition to actually use her powers even if not paralysed, or even willing to by that point, *is not* logical. Mostly just elaborate, traumatic and sadistic. Which obviously makes perfect sense considering where this comes from, and/or the fact Fitz was clearly suffering from some deep psychological breakdown (or psychic split as Jemma calls it) from a previous brain injury and his time spent in the Framework, but what makes it difficult to accept, forgive or even understand, from both a fan and a character perspective, is that he trusted that part of him more than his own friend and team member, even after he’d realised that this was no anomaly, but *especially* that he disregarded a member of the team who again has a long history of going above and beyond in her effort for the team and the planet, no matter the detriment to herself. There are also uncomfortable real life parallels and allusions that this episode draws, whether intentionally or not, that does not make Fitz’s actions easy to swallow. To me, it feels like an episode and event that ends up framing the violation of body autonomy as morally grey heroism, which has disturbing ties to real life practices and events (a rape allegory being the most commonly cited and recognised, but various horrific medical practices, religious or traditional practices done to women throughout history also come to mind), seems to reserve most of its empathy for the perpetrator and is further exacerbated by the ethnicity and genders of the parties involved. This is essentially Fitz’s ‘Seeing Red’ scene. Except I don’t know if the writers are actually aware of that similarity. I can’t deny that it’s a very compelling and well put together episode quality wise, and I admire their ambition and willingness to delve into the darker subject matters, and to muddy such a popular character in this way, but I’m not entirely sure they completely understood the ideas and messages they were essentially conveying.. but I don’t know.
Lyla
2024-12-01 13:29:39 +0000 UTCThe Framework, it f---s you up. Absolutely and utterly. Kudos to the writers for going down this route with Fitz; they seldom shied away from taking a long-running story to its logical conclusion. Even if it meant painting a popular/fan-favourite character in a bad light. And kudos to Iain and Chloe and Elizabeth and Jeff for knocking it out of the park, performance wise.
Ian Fleming
2024-12-01 13:19:22 +0000 UTCWhat makes this season my favorite is this kind of moral issue. This isn’t the only thing this season where fans fervently disagree with each other on if a character is justified in their actions.
TES
2024-12-01 08:30:54 +0000 UTCAaaaand welcome to the episode that turned Fitz from one of my favorite characters to one of my least 🫠 Fantastic acting by Iain, as per usual, and the pieces were laid out so I don't consider it character assassination, but torturing Daisy and having no remorse is a bridge too far for me. It can't even be argued that it was the Leopold personality and that Fitz was himself an unwilling participant, because we're shown clearly that when push came to shove, he was fully cognizant of his actions. Not to mention he'd been hallucinating Leopold since the Framework and didn't tell anyone, something that would have prevented this situation from occurring. We don't know that the surgery was the only way to get Daisy's powers back, or even if Daisy's powers were the only way to close the rift, that's just what Fitz thought. And even if it were the only way, there's no excuse for not talking to Daisy about it and working things out that way. To violate her consent, her body, and her trust so egregiously, and to not even feel sorry for it, is unforgivable to me.
Laurel
2024-12-01 07:20:35 +0000 UTCAn all time classic episode! Out of a show that takes a lot bold risks in terms of character and plot, this is right up there.
TES
2024-12-01 06:58:22 +0000 UTC
